General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsI am a SWM, 63, and have never understood many older men.
Why do so many older men get the hots for some pretty young woman, and then think their feelings would reciprocated by said woman young enough to be their daughter, niece or granddaughter?
You get aroused, fine. You need to take your arousal into the closest bathroom, and masturbate it away. I guess many men never get and accept the message that because they get an erection, some woman is NOT obligated to relieve them.
no_hypocrisy
(46,080 posts)In their minds, they're still 24 and smoking hot. Their appearance has changed, but not their libido.
Ego. Going around with a hot young girl gets people talking about what a stud you must be for her to choose you.
Some don't care why the young girl partners up, even if it's for status and/or money. They like the ego rush.
MicaelS
(8,747 posts)dawg day
(7,947 posts)and now they have power, and they want to get what they couldn't get when they were 17.
Claustrum
(4,845 posts)The problem is who is initialing such action. Most of the time, when the old men is initiating, that puts the young girl in a very bad situation as it's hard to put that guy down without hurting his feelings in public. The best course of action is to let the girl be the driving force.
MicaelS
(8,747 posts)spooky3
(34,438 posts)unless the younger person is seeking money. To see how ridiculous it sounds, just switch the genders - how many attractive 24 year old men are genuinely interested in a 64 year old woman?
moonscape
(4,673 posts)in love with a Ukranian woman in her 30s, barely older than his daughter, and they spent time together before the pandemic. They talk every day, have a romance going and talking marriage. He travelled to Switz several times during the pandemic (hes dual citizen) on nearly empty planes to see her.
She is a PhD in economics, has 2 contracts which yield her a 250k annual income, and is so drop-dead gorgeous she could model if she wanted. Hes an amazing guy, extremely charismatic and bright, with a business which yields almost no income. He lives with a former girlfriend because he cant afford his own place.
When he pressed her on the age issue and why the attraction, she said I never met anyone like you. Go figure. I chose not to probe about her relationship with her father ...
Sorry for the aside. It has been on my mind a lot. When the pandemic is over enough for her to come back to the US, Im dreading a visit from them because it creeps me out thinking of seeing them together as a couple. I need to get over it and just be happy that hes so happy, but ...
spooky3
(34,438 posts)something is wrong and the situation is not as the couple wants you to believe.
moonscape
(4,673 posts)photos of her when he visited right before the pandemic. We live on opposite coasts. His daughter met her when she came to the US for the holidays 2019. My cousin reported his daughter asked not to spend time with them during her visit. I can imagine itd be hard since the 2 are the same age.
My creep out really is strictly based on age. When I was in my mid 30s I saw anyone 40 years older like a father if not grandfather, and I keep thinking there has to be an angle.
lagomorph777
(30,613 posts)She has seven or eight other old fools on strings too.
pnwmom
(108,976 posts)and hope she'll be a US widow before long.
moonscape
(4,673 posts)dual NZ and Swiss citizen, though was planning to get a US one in the next couple of years, though if 45 had become 46 he was leaving the country.
I thought of that, but she is currently living and working in Switzerland so has a work permit there. Not sure why she would need him vs having a relationship with someone younger. Its still a leading theory, except the widow part. Ive not put anything nefarious on it at this point.
haele
(12,646 posts)It may be more of a companionship that she wants, and to her -and to him - the sex or "romance" is not a big deal. He gets an ego-boo and a good intellectual friendship, she gets a security and good intellectual friendship.
She might not want kids or what she sees as a younger man's aggressive activity.
Relationships are about many things, not just sexual attraction.
While squicky to those who think of marriage or living together as a partnership with benefits, some people and cultures don't see it that way.
For instance - my Father-in-law's last wife is only 5 years older than me, 20 years younger than her husband. However, they were both active in the same running and golf clubs, had similar hobbies and friends, and she was independently wealthy enough that it wouldn't seem she was being a gold-digger when they got together after his previous wife died. Laz, his sister, and she are actually still friends after FiL passed 8 years ago from a freak mosquito bite that gave him West Nile Virus.
All that being said, if there is a power imbalance involved, that is not a relationship, that's a attempt at a forced transaction, not a older person "being attracted to" a younger person.
Haele
moonscape
(4,673 posts)physically in amazing shape since he was an athlete (Olympic swimmer) and has always been active. Hes vital and younger than his years now. She is getting out of a marriage and has one son, doesnt want another. Hes extremely bright, hilarious, never met a stranger and has lived all over the world. They both bring a lot to the table, so its just the age difference. They do have a strong, physical relationship so its beyond companionship, though maybe thats where the relationship will settle in time.
Thanks again for your input. Its helpful.
Tracer
(2,769 posts)look at Emmanuel Macron and his older wife.
Mr.Bill
(24,280 posts)but when a woman tries to get a little too friendly with me, I just look her in the eye and say "My wife makes $150,000 a year." End of conversation. Every time.
My wife is retired now but at one time she did make that much.
aeromanKC
(3,322 posts)This is a non story. (not so much with the office kiss however)
dem4decades
(11,282 posts)Gore1FL
(21,127 posts)Wow. You sound open-minded.
pnwmom
(108,976 posts)And according to her girlfriend, who was watching, he managed to kiss her on the cheek before she got away.
If you think this is okay, and non-sexual, and a non-story, then imagine him doing all this to a cute young guy he had just met, uninvited -- cupping his hands on his face and asking for a kiss. That wouldn't happen because Cuomo wasn't being just friendly -- he was being sexual. And he's straight.
Baked Potato
(7,733 posts)ChubbyStar
(3,191 posts)Tip of the hat
Gore1FL
(21,127 posts)or did you mean something else?
obamanut2012
(26,068 posts)The younger woman must be a "slut" or "golddiger," and the older man (or woman) is a creepy predator. There are many, many loving and long-term marriages/relationships between folks with 20-40 years age difference. 'Good lord, just look at what folks day about Holland Taylor and Sarah Paulson (32 years difference).
Hell, many folks even thing inter-generational FRIENDSHIPS are weird. I am an Old GenXer, and I have friends from 25 to 85.
kcr
(15,315 posts)But it's even grosser when proponents of May/December romances show up around discussions of harassment when it's unwanted. That really does nothing for your cause and I can't for the life of me understand how you and the Florida DUer can't see it. It has quite the opposite effect. Older people prey on younger people. It's a fact of life. It has nothing to do with any consensual relationships, and your defensiveness is not a good look for you.
RobinA
(9,888 posts)younger people prey on older people? How naïve. This is the same mindset that had Monica Lewinsky being a victim of Bill Clinton. Yah right.
Karma13612
(4,552 posts)That a woman is a slut if she likes a guy with a yacht?
Gore1FL
(21,127 posts)Baked Potato
(7,733 posts)The OP went straight to the sexual nature of older men-younger women.
I thought that was extremely sexist and immature. Why cant an older man desire a younger women for other than sex? What if it is just for companionship?
My yacht comment was just being real. Many wealthy older men get what they want, when they want. They dont need to go to the bathroom to jack off.
To deny that an older man with money cant attract a younger woman is not being real. It doesnt always have to involve sex. There is arm-candy involved in these relationships.
Also, older women like younger men too. An older woman with bucks could certainly attract a younger man. Especially for social functions, and again companionship.
And, of course, a relationship doesnt even have to involve money.
So, no Im not implying younger women are sluts for dating older men. Or, vis versa.
Gore1FL
(21,127 posts)I apologize for my strong misinterpretation.
Baked Potato
(7,733 posts)I have a daughter.
GulfCoast66
(11,949 posts)Im still a guy and find young girls attractive, but would never think to make an advance on one. I mean, like any girl in their 20s is going to be attracted to a slightly overweight guy who could be her dad? Yeah, Im good enough looking, educated and good socially, but it just feels sleazy to me.
I know people my age who have dumped their wife for much younger woman. All had money.
It took 3 decades for the wife to train me! Why would I want to go thru that again!
Gore1FL
(21,127 posts)The one I lost is 61, now.
GulfCoast66
(11,949 posts)I was real young when when we stated dating and she was 6 years older. I knew to never get married before 25. Youre really not an adult till that age. No one expected us to stick.
Got married after 6 years together and it has stuck. I love her dearly and she is my best friend.
It helps she is the best looking 60 year old ever. Better than many 35 year olds. But even if not I made a vow and am happy to honor it.
But even if single I just cant respect a man my age chasing young women. Seems unseemly to me. But Ive seen plenty of it in my life. Trying to relive their youth maybe?
Gore1FL
(21,127 posts)They have several children and are happy.
The heart wants what the heart wants.
GulfCoast66
(11,949 posts)Not criticizing your friend, just speaking for myself.
Even though the wife is 6 years older than me, she will outlive me. Be Heaven forbid she does not, no way in hell Im marrying a 20 something. They seem like kids to me. Even the smart, educated and most mature.
Weve been successful, I still look pretty good and I dont doubt I could find a taker. But to me its just to freaky. But that me. To each his own.
obamanut2012
(26,068 posts)It has nothing to so with anyone's looks or ages. The heart does want what it wants. People fall in love, people are best friends, with people many years older or younger than themselves. Society is very, very judgemental about intergenerational friendships and relationships. The judgey ones are who are gross.
A 28-year-old professional woman is not a kid.
canetoad
(17,150 posts)Is they are unevolved human beings.
My experience in general is that humans aspire to holding elevated values and ethics but are all too quick to blame animal impulses when their sexual behavious is unacceptable and unwanted.
This is the dichotomy with which the Catholic church has wrestled for 1500 years. The same dichotomy that classifies women as virgin mothers or harlots.
Gore1FL
(21,127 posts)Good to know...
I guess losing the love of my life because she was 6 years older and that was weird to her family is an awesome outcome by your account.
Thanks for your open-mindedness.
canetoad
(17,150 posts)From what I wrote?
Gore1FL
(21,127 posts)I re-read.
This OP enrages me. My apologies.
canetoad
(17,150 posts)Sometimes people express a good idea in bad words.
obamanut2012
(26,068 posts)scuciti
(33 posts)I am 55 and I actually see 25 year old women as kids. Maybe that makes me weird. I feel bad for being attracted to women in their mid 40's. But I think 45 years old is a pretty hot age.
Gore1FL
(21,127 posts)Consenting adults is a thing. My last two SO's were older, one significantly. The last woman I asked out was significantly younger, but we had a great rapport. She said no, and I accepted it. We are friends to this day, and she is in a relationship that I applaud.
This OP is shit.
Gore1FL
(21,127 posts)Last edited Tue Mar 2, 2021, 01:45 AM - Edit history (1)
Attraction/love whatever isn't defined by age. I wanted to marry a woman six years my senior. She wanted to marry me. Her family convinced her she was wrong. I lost the love of my life.
Marriage, relationships, etc. are not always defined by age.
Was Pete Davidson wrong for dating a Kate Beckinsale? Is Leonardo DiCaprio wrong for dating Camila Morrone?
Why does this concern you? Why do you need to interject yourself into other people's love life?
On edit: Many minutes later, I cannot tell you how pissed off this makes me. I am glad you can judge my choices in loving someone older than me. I am glad you would be happy to judge me for loving someone younger than me. I can't tell you to fuck off enough.
God, this infuriates me. Seriously, who the fuck are you to arbitrate love?
And thank you so the fuck much for having me relive the biggest disappointment of my life.
treestar
(82,383 posts)not like 20 or 30.
The OP only wondered why old men think girls are interested. I was once a young girl, and I agree, I could never have been interested while in my 20s in some man 40 or 50. Not in that way.
And while some cases could be real, most likely are like the Dump/Malaria relationship. Merely because she could not really have a real physical attraction.
MotorCityBeard
(201 posts)I met my first partner when I was 34 and he was 59. We fell in love. Age was never an issue to us. We both knew how our families would react (Mike was the same age as my mother; I found that funny, Mike, not so much...) and we didn't care. We were in love, and it showed. Both our families were fine with that.
We had 5 wonderful years together until cancer took him. I have absolutely no regrets and feel I am lucky for our time together.
I've always liked older men, even when I was 18. It was just a personal preference. I'm 56 now, and grew into the age group I preferred.
I met my second partner a couple of years after I lost Mike, and we fell for each other. Steve is only a year older than me. To me. it just goes to show that it's the person, not the age, that is the attraction.
lpbk2713
(42,753 posts)I'm too lazy to look up the exact quote but he said something like ...
"Why go out for hamburger when you have Porterhouse at home?"
Beringia
(4,316 posts)Like women were cows or something. I saw an interview with him and Joanne Woodward together and she was talking about their meeting or something and he didn't like it and Shushed her up. She was put in her place, like "be quiet woman". It looked like she had to get his permission to talk about something he found embarrassing but she found amusing.
TexasBushwhacker
(20,173 posts)unless they are looking for financial security. Someone asked Melania if she married Trump for his money. She asked if they thought he would have married her if she didn't look the way she did. That's the trade off. He gets arm candy, she gets designer clothes.
But plenty, if not most, younger women have no interest in such a transactional relationship.
Gore1FL
(21,127 posts)Don't try to add credence to this OP.
I "didn't experience it so it doesn't matter" is not a liberal thought pattern.
pnwmom
(108,976 posts)appreciate his hands on her bare back, and then his hands cupping her face and asking for a kiss?
What an ego he must have. YUK!!!!
Gore1FL
(21,127 posts)It was condemning age difference.
pnwmom
(108,976 posts)It's been all over the news for a couple days, as three different women have come forward to complain about him.
Gore1FL
(21,127 posts)They mentioned age difference.
Those are vastly different topics.
Gore1FL
(21,127 posts)This OP is about age difference not about Cuomo.
pnwmom
(108,976 posts)So it's logical to wonder what gave him the idea that much younger women appreciate overtures like that from older men, instead of being repulsed by them.
obamanut2012
(26,068 posts)Not unwanted advances. You, like others in this thread, are conflating the two.
obamanut2012
(26,068 posts)Good lord. Epic fail.
You may think all age gap relationships are "transactional," but that is simply not true, and has been proven to not be true.
Good lord, this board sometimes.
treestar
(82,383 posts)(I had a 50 something boss tell 20 something me how men have a longer shelf life) they age just as much, or worse, since they don't have the pressure women do.
No, they are not more attractive as they age, though they continually try to tell us this when we are younger, hoping they can attract someone with less experience and control her.
Aristus
(66,316 posts)I've been attracted to older women ever since I learned at around age six that boys were different from girls; and I liked the differences!
My first celebrity crush at that age was Karen Valentine.
Now that I'm in my fifties, my celebrity crush is Helen Mirren.
Any woman under the age of forty is a child, in my opinion.
Gore1FL
(21,127 posts)Because age is apparently very important in relationships on DU...
Celerity
(43,303 posts)Gore1FL
(21,127 posts)Age difference is akin to rape, murder, genocide, etc. if you believe the posts on this thread.
canetoad
(17,150 posts)Back to the beginning, but it's too confusing. So I will jump in right here and now with my own story.
At age nineteen, I married a man who was 46. I'm not going to share the details here, but you are welcome to PM me and I will be truthful in my answers. I'm 66 now.The marriage lasted 8 years. Have at it.
Gore1FL
(21,127 posts)Sadly her family had the same ideas as the OP.
Celerity
(43,303 posts)our 20's and 30's as 'children'.
obamanut2012
(26,068 posts)WTAF
You actually believe and wrote that.
WOW.
treestar
(82,383 posts)find them attractive sexually.
Aristus
(66,316 posts)I regret it.
Mendocino
(7,486 posts)[link:
|FakeNoose
(32,630 posts)I wonder if he still feels the same way about high school girls?
Probably not.
SunSeeker
(51,550 posts)pnwmom
(108,976 posts)that some beautiful woman 30 or 40 years younger won't be completely repulsed if they get "flirtatious" or handsy.
C Moon
(12,212 posts)Cuomo is not even guilty of anything.
Why are Democrats always guilty before proven innocent?
Gore1FL
(21,127 posts)They are simply condemning May/Dec relationships.
:/ is the best you have? If the OP wanted to talk about Cuomo maybe they would have mentioned his name rather than condemning age difference in relationships.
Specificity matters. Frankly this one hits the fuck home for me. So be understanding, or fuck off.
kcr
(15,315 posts)You're coming off badly in this thread. It's not all about you.
obamanut2012
(26,068 posts)kcr
(15,315 posts)This is a thread about older men harassing younger women. You know, because of Cuomo?
Gore1FL
(21,127 posts)And then tell me why it is OK.
And yo are right. It isn't all about me. The ageism is a blanket smear that covers a lot of people.
kcr
(15,315 posts)Unless you're saying anti-sexual harassment is ageist and sexist.
I have an idea. Why don't you go and enjoy your young one. Be a chill ambassador for that lifestyle instead of defending a sexual harasser.
Gore1FL
(21,127 posts)Don't be an idiot.
kcr
(15,315 posts)What does your consensual relationship have to do with it? Why do we have to pretend that sexual harassment doesn't exist in order for you to be happy and secure in yours? If that's the case, then maybe it isn't what you think it is?
Gore1FL
(21,127 posts)It's a thread about age difference. Did you read the op ed, or did you just come here to snipe?
Please back up your accusation or apologize.
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)Even when it's blindingly obvious, we often feel the need to ignore it in order to better advertise how righteous we ourselves are.
Gore1FL
(21,127 posts)The OP:
Why do so many older men get the hots for some pretty young woman, and then think their feelings would reciprocated by said woman young enough to be their daughter, niece or granddaughter?
You get aroused, fine. You need to take your arousal into the closest bathroom, and masturbate it away. I guess many men never get and accept the message that because they get an erection, some woman is NOT obligated to relieve them.
Not about harassment. It's about making a judgement concerning age, and apparently masturbating.
pnwmom
(108,976 posts)She was the 3rd woman to say he was making her uncomfortable, but she didn't need to say it. Anyone could see it.
Cetacea
(7,367 posts)I can see four alterations already. And as I expected, the source is choosing to remain anonymous.
pnwmom
(108,976 posts)And the reporter also saw texts sent right after this happened, and other photos.
I see no reason to believe him at this point. He's even admitted, with regard to the other women, that he might have said inappropriate things.
Just because the R's let men get away with anything doesn't give a Democrat a free pass.
Arazi
(6,829 posts)150 women from his college signed a letter denouncing his Congressional run.
Those facts, plus his resume lies, came out in the news this weekend and.... crickets
Talitha
(6,581 posts)IMO that's why men often feel the need to turn to a younger woman. Basically, his woman/wife has become menopausal and no longer thinks of him the way he would like her to. So, he goes out and gets someone 'young and stupid'. Make sense?
pnwmom
(108,976 posts)And this young woman had ZERO interest in him, which he'd have realized if he had the tiniest bit of sensitivity.
obamanut2012
(26,068 posts)Women have the same interest in sex at 75 as they do at 35. MEN lose sex drive.
TlalocW
(15,380 posts)I Infoseeked (pre-Google) "Hispanic Latin Women" because my grad school's Hispanic Student Association was going to focus on them for the upcoming Hispanic Heritage Month events. First I learned the importance of making my searches more specific, but I also ran across a webpage for a Latin Women Listserv (for those who have forgotten or are too young - a listserv was basically an email list centered around a topic you could sign up for where all the emails from members were put together into a nice digest once a day). I joined for kicks because most of the members were conservative, older men (40s and up) who legitimately believed they were owed hot, submissive wives, felt American women were ruined by society (and weren't keen on Mexicans since they were so close to America), and were focusing mainly on Colombia, which had a lot of dating services for American men. It was quite an eye-opener into entitlement. None of them could speak Spanish, knew anything about the culture, and a lot were also on the Russian Women listserv for the same reasons with the same handicaps (couldn't speak Russian, etc). I admit I trolled* them a bit in my spare time. The listserv owner actually thanked me because he thought I was a positive influence - so much for trolling - because I would say things like you need to be interested in the culture to actually show potential partners that you value them as people and not just status symbols. I was actually jeered by some members for that.
*The best troll was when I had a bi friend of mine join as a woman looking for a Latin bride. I would send her details about a part of Mexico I used to know very well (Oaxaca), and she would fashion a story about going there and meeting a woman (Guadalupe). Oh, the howls of indignation that there was THAT kind of person on the listserv, and even worse, she was having SUCCESS! It ended up with Lupe moving to Seattle and their having a commitment ceremony... which just made the howls louder from half the list.
TlalocW
Jerryatric
(2,472 posts)I had enough horrible bosses to think that it's really all about power and ego. The more powerful they get, the more they expect people to do whatever they want and the more people that do, the more they expect it. Until they wind up being old, hideous men who are still hitting on girls in their 20's who have no idea what to do when the boss is acting like that. Or at least we didn't when I was young; there were no laws, there was no HR department, there was nothing but quit, try to avoid him, or play along and hope like hell he's just flirting and he won't go any further. Meanwhile, he's so used to getting his way every single minute in every aspect of his life that he never considers that his feelings aren't all that matter.
They're shocked when someone says no to them, the same way a guy in a bar once said to me in the early 80's - "but I'm Englebert's road manager" as if that was some kind of way to make me go upstairs. He was shocked that being sent by some rich old man to get my friend and me to come upstairs to "meet" Englebert wasn't some magic phrase that always worked and he seemed actually surprised that I was laughing at him. They're so used to people saying yes that it never enters their mind that someone might not.
TexasBushwhacker
(20,173 posts)He doesn't get handsy with a woman that's 50 because she might slap his face. He doesn't suggest playing strip poker with a woman 5 years younger than him because there's a good chance she'll laugh in his face.
He does these things to much younger women because he knows being groped or flirted with by a man old enough to be their father catches them off guard and they don't know how to respond. He gets his jollies at their expense. When it's a young woman at a wedding, it's inappropriate. When it's an employee, it's sexual harassment and that's against the law.
Jerryatric
(2,472 posts)and some of the things they did, I'm shocked at my own self for putting up with them. When I was young and had no clue and there was nowhere to go for help, I put up with a lot that I wouldn't now. I'm so glad that young women, at least some of them, are having it a little easier than I did, but there is still a long way to go.
leftyladyfrommo
(18,868 posts)That makes young women vulnerable.
Baitball Blogger
(46,699 posts)I once respected sidle up to my recently widowed father. Gross. But, these were older women. It might be a generational thing that older men do not realize, will not resonate with a younger generation.
GoneOffShore
(17,339 posts)I don't want to work any harder than that. It takes way too much energy to deal with someone who is that young.
I want the cultural references I make to resonate with the person I'm talking to. Hell, Mrs GoS is 12 years younger than I am, and after 40 years together, she still doesn't get some stuff. That being said, I don't get some of her references either as I didn't watch the same shows or listen to the same music.
But I do like to look.
treestar
(82,383 posts)It's just old fashioned sexism. Men are attractive when they have power, and women only because of beauty that is greatest in their 20s. Shallow-ish people who are impressed by these things only.
You'll see incels complain that the women only want the men with money. They don't have it. Their real complaint is their lack of power.
Oneironaut
(5,492 posts)Expressing interest in another adult? Ok... Let people live.
Being inappropriate with your subordinate in a professional environment when there is a massive power difference, and its obvious that the one with all the power doesnt give a shit about their targets feelings? Absolutely not okay!
To answer the OP in this context, its about control. Cuomo isnt just an older man interested in younger women. Hes an asshole who abused his power, and tried to bully his subordinate into meeting his selfish needs. Older men are attracted to younger women, but consider their feelings. Cuomo is an entitled asshole who cant be told no.
kcr
(15,315 posts)They may not have been entirely clear, but the part about the men feeling women were obligated to reciprocate? That part maybe should have been in the beginning to make it more clear they're talking about predators like Cuomo.
taxi
(1,896 posts)There isnt much difference between being an old man and the point when one becomes a dirty old man. Some like to walk that thin and dangerous line, not realizing that it is those watching us who have the power to make the call, not ourselves.
That being said, where is the temptation? Remember- no act of philanthropy goes unpunished, someone will always fault your decisions. Are you doing it for her? Are you really trying to help? Or is it maybe just for oneself, all for oneself? A little for oneself?
For those who can take an objective look, go somewhere and watch for someone like yourself doing the same thing. What are your first thoughts?
Johnny2X2X
(19,038 posts)It's called growing up. By the time you're in your 60s you should be mature enough to control yourself.
Heck, in my late 40s and there is zero temptation for me because you know what? I'm an adult. I have control over myself and would never consider being a creep or exerting pressure over those I have authority over.
mvd
(65,173 posts)It is healthy as long as the person someone is attracted to is of legal age. Even in my 40s however I would be wary of actually initiating something with a woman in her 20s if I did not know her enough.
Aristus
(66,316 posts)When I said above that I thought of women under forty as 'children', it was not meant in a paternalistic way. Only that I don't find them old enough to be sexually attractive.
It was a bad choice of words, and I apologize for the offense I caused.
Politicalgolfer
(317 posts)It makes me feel like a 75 year old goddess. The 3 months we are the same age, I just feel like two old farts.....😎
BannonsLiver
(16,369 posts)Its not really that complicated.