Anna Ruch, Cuomo's 3rd accuser, is a Democrat and a former Biden campaign staffer.

[pnwmom]

We can see the photo of her, with his hands holding her face, and that obviously uncomfortable look on her face.

And she's telling us what happened. And her friend who took the photo confirmed what happened.

And yet I am reading actual Democrats here suggesting maybe she's making the whole thing up, maybe to help the Republicans.

Wow. Some people will go to any length to defend one of their favs, as long as he's a Democrat.

Link to tweet

A third woman has accused Governor Andrew Cuomo of touching her in a way that made her feel uncomfortable, alleging that he forcibly kissing her on the cheek while she was at a wedding in 2019. Anna Ruch, 33, who previously worked in the Obama White House as a photo editor and for the Biden campaign last year, described the encounter in an Instagram post Sunday.

“[He] slid his hand on my lower back which I promptly removed and then he proceeded to grab my face with both hands and asked if he could kiss me,” she wrote, adding that he then kissed her on the cheek. She posted the comments alongside an image of the governor clasping her face between his hands, while she looked visibly nervous and unable to move. “Then [he] told me I was aggressive.”

SNIP

“I was so confused and shocked and embarrassed,” she told the Times. “I turned my head away and didn’t have words in that moment.”

Ruch’s friend, who asked not to be named, said she was at the 2019 wedding and witnessed the incident play out before her eyes.

https://gothamist.com/news/third-woman-accuses-governor-cuomo-sexual-harassment-says-he-grabbed-and-kissed-her-cheek-wedding

[WHITT]

1. Eh

Not an employee or former employee. Somebody put their hand on a woman's back and kissed them on the cheek?

Oh we need to lock this monster up!

Has anybody been to a wedding reception prior to the pandemic?

She obviously didn't object, as she said she later tried to find him to tell him she didn't think it was appropriate, but couldn't find him. If she had, I'm sure he would have apologized profusely.

[qazplm135]

2. Yeah no

You don't get to touch women without their permission. Period. Much less grab their face and kiss them.

He's done.

[WHITT]

31. Guess You Missed It

According to her, he DID ask permission. She obviously didn't object, as she said she later tried to find him to tell him she didn't think it was appropriate.

Look, I wouldn't have done what he did, but it's just not Sexual Harassment.

[qazplm135]

82. she also didn't consent

she was shocked by his behavior, and he took advantage. When she got her wits about her, she reacted.

Your making excuses for him is for what? Because he's just so darn awesome as a Dem? Because no one can do the job better or as well and not harass people, sexually or otherwise?

What exactly is the point of the vigorous defense of this guy?

We have a dozen other Dems who can do the job as well or better and won't harass people.

[WHITT]

133. I'm Not Defending Cuomo

just defending the facts. It's not Sexual Harassment.

[qazplm135]

134. Sure it is

Making sexual jokes, which is HIS characterization of it, is sexual harassment by the very standards he propogated as policy.

Touching someone without their consent IS sexual harassment.

It's not high level but it's there.

Regardless it's grossly inappropriate and not worthy of the standards we should hold politicians to.

[WHITT]

140. NOT An Employee

Not Sexual Harassment.

[qazplm135]

141. yawn

really? That's the reed you are hanging your hat on?

wow.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Street_harassment

[WHITT]

142. Wikipedia Is Merely OPINION

[qazplm135]

143. yeah

I'd not take the five seconds to click the links there either if I were holding onto your position.

[pnwmom]

96. She tried to avoid the kiss but said he managed to kiss her anyway.

In her determination to get away, she didn't stick around to lecture him.

Later, after she had collected herself, she decided she wanted to say something. That does NOT mean he had consent to grab her face or to plant a kiss.

How can anyone look at the expression on her face, the frown lines between her eyebrows, and not understand that she's NOT consenting?

[Raine]

4. You don't put your hands on other people

doesn't matter Democratic or Republican , wedding reception or not keep you damn hands to yourself and off of others!

[pnwmom]

5. No man has the right to put his hands on a woman he's just met like this. And he grabbed

her face AFTER she pulled his hand off her bare back, and he told her she was "aggressive."

You are obviously a man, or you would understand that most young women would be too shocked to know how to verbally respond, especially after a man had just told her she was aggressive for using her hand to move his off of her. Cuomo was the aggressive one, grabbing her head with his hands after she removed the hand from her back. He knew she didn't want his hand on her, so he doubled down.

[Pongo]

20. Thank you for this. No one should put their hands on another without permission.

Especially if they're virtual strangers.

[radius777]

132. +1. Her expression in the pic looks cheerful and upbeat,

like anyone else would at a party when seeing someone they hoped would show up and greet them... ie normal interaction that is now being 'twisted around' as part of a political takedown.

[ADK]

135. What are you smoking and where can I get some?

That is absolute nonsense. She is palpably nervous and guarded in the photograph. Look at her face and forehead, and her body language. She is not smiling; she is grimacing. There is no justifying or defending Cuomo’s conduct here.

[marble falls]

148. Shame on you.

[Bleacher Creature]

3. Totally unacceptable.

Before this new allegation, I believed that he should be afforded the benefit of allowing the process to play out, but this is just wrong.

And the fact that Trump gets away with this kind of behavior without consequences is moot. We're supposed to be better than this.

[uponit7771]

7. No its not moot, the time the M$M is putting into Trump allegations vs this one is disproportionate

... and we should point that out.

Trump gets 26 rape allegations after he claims he can do anything to women cause he's a star ... I believe them more because of what he said.

Cuomo has shown or said anything like that, I'll wait ... fuck the pile on shit

[hlthe2b]

16. This is what bothers me the most.

I don't argue that all men should be held to a higher standard than with my generation, where, such behavior was considered an "affectionate greeting." I can remember several very senior "bosses" in my career that would congratulate men with a handshake and women with a kiss on the cheek and hug. If anyone here thinks a woman publicly expressing discomfort with that would have been received with anything but incredulous ridicule by colleagues or management--including other women at the time--has no clue.

So, while I don't argue that the acceptable standards should change, the MSM disproportionate equivalence of such behavior with actual rape and pattern assault among R's (especially, but not only Trump) is what is really angering me.

This comment is not specific to Cuomo and I have not made any kind of judgment on him as yet, but the current inequity.

[ADK]

28. I don't care about what Trump did.

It is quite clear that the Republican Party has normalized both sexual harassment and rape, and is willing to accept that kind of conduct from its leaders. This is part of the reason that I am proudly a Democrat. As a Democrat, I expect more from my leaders, elected officials, and the political party that I have elected to be a member of. I think Trump should be in Prison, and i’m hopeful that he eventually will get his comeuppance. But I’m sick of people here defending Cuomo by saying “what about Trump.” That simply is not a defense. If you want to support a politician who is a bully and lecherous creep, if not a serial harasser, go become a Republican.

[hlthe2b]

36. Biden would not be President if we had not both listened & INVESTIGATED what turned out to be

false accusations. Yes, we should listen and investigate, but deciding based on initial reports, passing judgment without investigation, and demanding a pre-ordained outcome, under those circumstances, is not only equalizing all forms of behavior/misbehavior with rape, pattern sexual harassment, and sexual bullying/extortion but is unconscionable, IMHO.

We owe it to the accusers and to the accused to investigate in a consistent judicial manner. No more, no less--and to withhold final judgment until that has occurred.

[brooklynite]

65. You seem to be claiming that the NY Times didn't do responsible journalism...

That it didn't investigate and validate the claims that it reported.

Maybe we should toss it off as "fake news"?

[hlthe2b]

67. NYT is a journalistic organization. Not hardly the same as a formal investigation.

And, yes, I note your consistency in attitude. Do you regret Biden not suffering the same fate with invalidated claims?

[radius777]

131. +1. There were multiple well timed accusations against Biden

that IMO seemed politically motivated, to knock him out to the benefit of his nearest competitor, and we would likely have Trump as president right now if Biden had given up so easily (in retrospect, none of the other candidates would've unseated a sitting president who was actively working to suppress Dem votes. Biden is a former VP and a white man, and was always the biggest threat to Trump).

The picture in the OP looks very innocent to me - her expression seems cheerful and upbeat - like she was excited to be greeted by him. It's regular 'party' type of behavior from either gender, but people are twisting it into something more for political reasons.

[uponit7771]

40. Neither do I my post you're responding to was about the M$M

[Demsrule86]

55. Well when we lose New York to a Republican perhaps we will finally learn to stop this shit.

[ADK]

66. It is very unlikely to happen.

NYS elections are largely controlled by NYC an a few upstate cities that are blue islands in a sea of rural red. Given Democratic enrollment in NYC, and the fact that the Statewide Republican Party is a mess, a Republican probably cannot win Statewide Election. The fact that an early front runner would be Elise Stefanik says it all.

Interestingly, Pataki beat the elder Cuomo after the elder Cuomo served 3 terms NYS there was significant “Cuomo fatigue.” The Demographics have changed since them, and had Andrew not gotten himself into this mess, he very will could have been Governor-for-Life.

[Demsrule86]

77. Remember Pataki? It could happen.

This should not work or the GOP will continue their bullshit...counting on the foolish to come forward with their breathless stories about kissed on the cheek at weddings and all :sarcams: .

[Boydog]

124. I agree one hundred percent

[treestar]

29. Then Dump shouldn't get away with it

It is a double standard.

[ripcord]

136. This has nothing to do with Trump

It comes down to who we want to represent us and the actions we find inappropriate, the idea that we should stoop to the same actions as Trump and the republicans is disgusting and sells out our principles. We aren't going to investigate Cuomo for the republicans we are going to investigate him for democrats and what we think is right.

[uponit7771]

6. No on is saying she's making it up but putting this on the same level as assault or

... using a position of power as a means of assault I don't see it.

#MeToo doesn't mean #I'mJustUncofortable because this person did some creepy shit.

There's multiple videos of Trump kiss attempts being dismissed and shit, even his wife swatted away his hand.

I'll wait, this seems a step in the creepy category vs fire-able offense

[pnwmom]

10. It shows a clear example of him not respecting personal boundaries, and adds credence

to his staffers' claims about his behavior -- which are never acceptable in the workplace.

And this has nothing to do with Trump. Just because his followers would literally let him get away with murder doesn't mean that we don't expect a much better standard of behavior from Democrats.

[uponit7771]

42. It damn well does Trumps offenses are fire-able and assault I don't see that here vs

... him being extra creepy and outside the bounds taken 100% of this persons word for it.

I've been grabbed by the face and kissed too the rest of it in context was beyond creepy but firing him for it?!

Fuck no, that's a step too far.

Apologize, realize and move on ... that sounds logical

[pnwmom]

45. She is the third woman, and this isn't the workplace. You're ignoring

the complaints of his two staffers.

[uponit7771]

49. True, there are people calling for Cuomo to step down. I can see what he's doing here

... being creepy but I'd like the context confirmed and even the office "kiss" which looks like wasn't confirmed by anyone else that worked with him IINM.

I'll wait, people did similar with Franken ... that was some bullshit too and I can see Putin's Whore wanting to get rid of a couple of dems to give him in a pardon in 3 yrs

[pnwmom]

53. You think that the female Lt. Governor, a Democrat, would give Trump a pardon?

Get real.

[uponit7771]

57. No, she has to run after him and NY has voted for kGOP govs before so by time the trials

... get really started they could have one of theirs in office.

Long shot but what else does Putin's Whore have

Either way, I'll wait ... this looks like Franken 2.0 ... too many calling for too much too quickly

[Pongo]

22. Who is putting it on the same level as assault? Sexual harassment is wrong, even if it's not

'assault' per se. I thought most of us Dems understood that?

[uponit7771]

43. People asking for him to step down that's who. Being fired for being creepy ...

... is different from committing a felony and fire-able offense.

We should NOT turn #MeToo into #I'mUncomfortable

Biden was too touchy, that doesn't mean I think he should be fired from his job either.

[Demsrule86]

59. I was sexually assaulted and sent to the hospital...I can't tell you how enraged I am when I see

a completely clueless person equating sexual assault with a kiss on the cheek...women like this make me sick and make it hard for those who are truly attacked and even if injured not to be believed (what were you wearing and you were at a bar!) and for our attackers to be prosecuted.

I am now officially done with Me too...finished. They did their best to take down Biden twice, the got Al Franken, Katie Hill and now we are going to allow them to do the same to Cuomo...well stupid is as stupid does is all I can say. I would also say that we lost Katie Hill's seat....so foolish.

This helps the GOP have a shot at winning the governor's race. And we are shooting ourselves in the face. If they are successful, it will never end.

[uponit7771]

62. THIS !!!! ☝🏾☝🏾☝🏾 .. this should be an OP, please post this. I felt the same way that

... some of the M$M and on the right was minimizing #MeToo into people being uncomfortable with social creepiness.

This looks like Franken 2.0, too many people wanting too much too quickly

I really think this post would do DU some good, there are people being raped and taken advantage of by people in power I don't think what Cuomo did rises to that level even if I take accusers word 100% for it.

[beaglelover]

63. Thank you for this most excellent post!

[RobinA]

71. This Female Democrat

couldn't agree more. And I've never been truly assaulted. I particularly don't like how fragile this makes women look. Not to mention the circular firing squad element. If somebody is this easily upset they need to avoid the big boys and girls, they don't think much about other people's hurt feelings.

[Demsrule86]

74. A kiss on the cheek is not assault period. I would be embarrassed to say this publicly.

[qazplm135]

85. By the law, an assault is any unwanted touching (technically battery)

so yes, a kiss on the cheek, if unwanted, is an assault...period.

Now, are you going to jail for it or being charged for it? No.

But an assault technically doesn't even require a touching, but the mere apprehension of a touching.

Some jurisdictions split it into assault and battery, an example of the former being if you throw a punch (that's seen by the victim) but miss, that's an assault. If you throw a punch that is seen and connects, that's an assault and battery. If you throw a punch that's not seen but connects, that's a battery, and if you throw a punch that's not seen and doesn't connect, then it's nothing.

But touching someone without their consent is technically a crime. You can use the defenses of accident or self-defense to rebut of course, or in this case, consent, but consent wasn't given here.

[pnwmom]

113. Yes, it can be. Also, putting your hands on someone's face to hold her head in place

meets the legal definition of assault.

[ADK]

137. Civil assault.

Is an unconsented to touching. But what are the damages?

Criminal assault in NY requires intent to cause physical injury and physical injury — even misdemeanor Assault 3. Not likely here.

The conduct at issue was creepy and unacceptable, but probably not an assault.

[hlthe2b]

72. Yours is an important post...

Thank you.

[qazplm135]

83. lawyer here...prosecuted and defended sex crimes of all types

and yes, by the book, this IS a low level sexual assault in most jurisdictions.

Is it on the level of yours? No.

Is it a level to get you jail time? No.

Is it a level to get you fired or removed? Yep.

I have seen a myriad number of Soldiers administratively discharged for very similar conduct...at the VERY least given a reprimand that basically ended any chance of a future long term military career.

This isn't even just about sexual assault, it's about a pattern of bullying and harassment. We have three women now, there almost assuredly will be more. This isn't the Biden case or the Hill case, so lumping them in isn't relevant. It's most like the Franken case. And Franken, because fundamentally he's a decent person, did the right thing and resigned. Remains to be seen if Cuomo, who appears...way less decent than Al, will do the same...but I suspect the accusations to come and the media attention will eventually lead to that, and that's just fine.

There are a dozen other Dems who can do the job just as well or better AND won't harass people, sexually or otherwise.

[Demsrule86]

144. I don't buy it. GOP plot with piling on.

[qazplm135]

145. He just apologized

So, ya know...

[Demsrule86]

146. And? I don't think that means anything...first of all the so called charges are ridicuous in my

opinion. We can't allow this to continue happening. Cuomo does not resign and whether he runs again or not is up to him and the primary results. Period... don't fee the GOP animals.

[qazplm135]

147. I don't tend to apologize

when I'm being "set up." I apologize because I actually did something. So we can move on from the conspiracy theory.

I'm not a Republican. I don't do CT and I don't do not holding my politician's accountable for wrong doing.

[uponit7771]

150. I would if I stepped out of bounds and this is what this looks like Cuomo did. But wouldn't quit...

... cause I don't see a prosecutor taking on a simple assault charge to someone who kissed a person at a wedding.

[qazplm135]

151. There are multiple things

That don't end up in court but are still things you probably shouldn't be a public servant after doing.

[oasis]

86. Thank you.

[pnwmom]

95. What happened to you was terrible. That doesn't mean it's okay for men

to sexually harass the women who work for them, as two former staffers claim, or even to grab other women he meets at social occasions.

[Ms. Toad]

97. Women are not sacrifical lambs for male (or other) political ambition -

regardless of the party of the accused.

I say that as someone who has been raped twice, and who worked with survivers of rape and sexual assault for more than a decade.

It's not a competition about whose abuse was worse. It's about addressing the harassing, sometimes violent, behavior of (largely) men, regardless of which party they are in.

[Mz Pip]

138. I agree

Women shouldn’t be so fragile that an unwanted touch can’t be dealt with. Remove his hands. Tell him to knock off the “flirting.” Doing nothing at the time makes it seem okay.

We are not helpless in these situations. If you’re uncomfortable, say so.

Coming forward years later complaining some guy put his hand on you back or kissed you on the cheek seems a bit extreme.

[Dem4Life1102]

8. Well said

We need to have higher standard than republicans. If we claim to respect women and their rights, it can’t only be when one accuses a republican. Nor should we indulge in crazy conspiracy theories or whataboutism. Otherwise we are hypocrites.

[brush]

9. At weddings where liquor is flowing, a lot of people are kissing and hugging.

This is not the same as the other two allegations. And frankly, or frankenly, everybody was probably taking pictures of the govenor.

[pnwmom]

11. Liquor doesn't give men a free pass to do whatever they like

to any woman they think is attractive. She removed one hand from her bare back and how did he respond? He told her SHE was aggressive and then cupped her face inside TWO hands.

Liquor isn't an excuse and it's time all people understood that.

[brush]

14. This reminds me of the Lee Ann what's her name photo of Al Franken...

allegedly grabbing her breasts. It was a gag photo and that didn't happen. Investigate, investigate, investigate.

We're supposed to believe her story? Investigate. If it was so bad why didn't she come out then? You have to know everyone had their cell out and many were shooting shots to show they were at the same function as the Governor.

Investigate.

And look at her face. Some say she looks uncomfortable. She's smiling though.

[pnwmom]

15. How can you not understand that that is a scared, uncomfortable face? Women OFTEN smile

when they are uncomfortable and don't know what to do. We are trained to smile, to de-escalate things.

In this case, she's trying to figure out how to respond, because when she removed his hand from her back, he accused her of being aggressive and put TWO hands on her face instead.

And this happened less than two years ago, not a decade ago. She obviously came forward now to support the women who were describing what had happened to them. Suddenly she realized it wasn't just her - it was a part of a pattern.

And there is the witness. Her friend was there, watching what was happening, and taking the photo -- and there were TEXTS after the incident that the reporter was shown.

Look at the photo again, and look at her eyebrow. That is not a real smile. As a woman, I could see that. But maybe this article will help you understand.

https://slate.com/human-interest/2013/06/bitchy-resting-face-and-female-niceness-why-do-women-have-to-smile-more-than-men.html

In a raft of studies, women report smiling more than men (and men report smiling less than women). They speak of grinning on the job, with strangers, with relatives, in a dazzlingly diverse array of situations. An unscientific scan of high school yearbook photos, newspaper clippings, Facebook pics, and advertisements backs up those studies: Women flash their pearly whites far more frequently than men, at least when someone is taking their picture. And in simulated job interviews, female participants salt their speech with smiles, while male test subjects are more likely to adopt neutral (read: alluringly strong and stoic) expressions.

Here’s the thing, though: All this feminine smiling does not mean that women are happier. Back in the 19th century, the French physiologist G.B.A. Duchenne distinguished the spontaneous facial sunrise now known as the Duchenne smile (the “true” smile) from the imposters. While a performed or deliberate smile requires just the zygomaticus major, the muscle around the mouth, “real” smiles involve both the lips and the muscles ringing the eyes, the orbicularis oculi. Or as Duchenne put it, one type of grin “obeys the will, but the second is only put into play by the sweet emotions of the soul.” (Or as Tyra put it, “smile with your eyes.”)

SNIP

Another explanation for the sex difference in smiling, the dominance-status hypothesis, hinges on power dynamics. It proposes that women are the sunnier sex because they are socially weaker—they must wear their compliance on their faces, telegraphing to any and all that they have no interest in upsetting the status quo. Support for this argument comes from the primate kingdom, in which silent bared teeth displays (SBT) communicate affable submission. Humans aren’t apes, and too much cross-species extrapolation can be reductive. Still, research suggests that people appear less powerful when they grin, and that a scarcity of smiles is associated with aggression. In one study, men whose saliva samples contained higher levels of testosterone proved more reluctant to flash their teeth on command.

[Pongo]

34. Very, very good post. I really find it incomprehensible that anyone doesn't get that.

When I was younger, I hated it when men would touch me without permission. Usually they'd be making a joke to cover their creepy behavior. The only person who ever cupped my face like that, other than an intimate acquaintance or family member, was a friend's grandmother. I wasn't wild about that either, but I knew it came from a good place. A man who is a relative stranger, not so much.

[brush]

76. Again. Investigate. We just had Tara Reade lying about Biden.

Investigate. Don't jump to conclusions. If we had forced Biden out of the race when Reade lied on him, most likely trump would've won the election.

Investigate. What the hell haven't we learned from the Franken rush to judgement and Tara Reade's lies?

Why not investigate?

[pnwmom]

129. I'm for the investigation. And for him to step aside while it's ongoing

so the current employees will not be under his supervisory control while the investigation is ongoing.

[DesertRat]

126. Well said, pnwmom

Thank you for the OP and posts in this thread. I remember being in these kinds of uncomfortable situations with men who were much older and more powerful, including the boss of my first professional job out of college.

I've been too uncomfortable to even read much about these allegations. Just looking at this photo triggers memories of unwanted touching and sexual innuendo.

[MrsCoffee]

17. Oh for fuck's sake.

“Look at her face...She’s smiling though”.

SMDH.

No! YOU look at her face. That’s not a happy smile and that’s not a staged gag photo.

My teeth hurt from reading this post.

[thesquanderer]

51. Yes. That smile is closer to "I'm terrified" than "I'm happy." n/t

[brush]

80. So why not investigate? We almost lost Biden from Reade's lies.

Let's investigate before jumping to conclusions and calling for Cuomo to step down. Remember, we forced Franken out without an investigation.

[thesquanderer]

81. I didn't say anything about investigations OR stepping down. I only commented on the smile. n/t

[pnwmom]

98. Yes. nt

[brush]

79. WTH? Is there audio with that photo? You don't know what that face meant...

just as I don't. Investigate. Tara Reade just last year almost caused us to push Biden out of the race. Lee Ann whatever helped force Franken from office.

Women should be the first in line calling for investigations.

[MrsCoffee]

90. I don't need audio to know what that face meant.

No one is saying there shouldn't be investigations.

[pnwmom]

99. Of course we know that her face meant she was extremely uncomfortable.

Some people can't read facial expressions, so maybe that's why you can't see it. But that worried crease between her eyebrows tells us that the little smile is just her way of trying to placate a larger, more powerful man.

[brush]

101. Just call for investigations and let the chips fall where they may.

No need for speculation. If he's guilty so be it. If not, we didn't get Frankened again.

[pnwmom]

102. I'm for an investigation -- and for him stepping down while it is ongoing

since former staffers of his are among the women who said they were sexually harassed.

If he doesn't step down during the investigation, current staffers may be more reluctant to come forward.

[brush]

104. No stepping down during investigations. He hasn't been found guilty.

That's just playing the republican playbook. Like I said, let the chips fall where they may after an investigation.

[pnwmom]

107. It won't be a fair investigation because women he's still supervising

won't be comfortable coming forward, even if they had the same experience as the former staffers.

[brush]

118. Tish James, the NY AG, will be insturmental in the investigation.

She's a woman and has stated that there will be subpoena power.

[pnwmom]

119. So? They still shouldn't be under the control of the guy who's being investigated

and who they might have to give evidence about.

[brush]

120. So what's your solution?

[pnwmom]

121. For him to temporarily step aside while the investigation is ongoing,

with the Lt. Gov, another Democrat, taking over.

[Boydog]

127. Cuomo should step down on the same day

Trump apologizes for his abuses of women.

[Celerity]

106. I'm not at all saying Cuomo should resign, I want a full investigation, not a rush to judgement, BUT

some of the rationalisations, diminutions, and framings about women's autonomy and the subject of what is and what is not harassment that I have seen all over the board are sickening. Extraordinarily problematic in some cases. Deffo not a safe space.

[DesertRat]

128. +1000

Thank you. Me too.

[Pongo]

23. That is not a smile. That woman looks uncomfortable as hell. Many of us have been in that position.

I don't think this Cuomo incident is in any way comparable to the Franken thing.

[secondwind]

12. Eww, and the look on HIS face.....

I’ve seen and heard enough, I think.

[pnwmom]

13. I AGREE. He looks so self-satisfied. Barf. n/t

[Pongo]

18. Thank you for posting this. I've been amazed at the number of posters twisting into pretzels to

somehow excuse this behavior. That picture is clear as day.

[still_one]

19. Everyone of these accusers are very credible Democrats. Let the investigation tell the

story, and the chips fall where they may

[SharonClark]

105. Agree.

[demtenjeep]

21. I don't see anything sexual at that at all. I see an older man that doesn't know how to address

younger girls






If that were me? I would be happy

[Pongo]

24. Really? An accomplished politician who has spend his entire life in the public eye? Doesn't know

how to address 'younger girls?' The fact that you refer to the woman in the pic as a 'girl' speaks volumes. Omg.

[quickesst]

25. after looking at the photo....

....which I enlarged, if you look closely you can see a slight smile on her face, but in my opinion, and it's only one person's opinion, her eyes are telling a different story. That's all I have until a full investigation is done.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

26. Everyone's expendable when it comes to protecting powerful men.

Imagine the reaction this photo would get if it were Giuliani grabbing her head. The way people defend offensive behavior just so the Republicans don't get a gotcha fills me with despair sometimes.

[eShirl]

27. it's not a smile; it's a grimace

a "what the fck are you doing" grimace

[OnDoutside]

30. I have no opinion other than it must be an independent investigation, and no one should be going

anywhere until the outcome of that investigation.

The ONE question I have is whether this image is actually a freeze frame from a video, and if so, can we see the video ?

[treestar]

32. things done in public like this

are not quite as bad; if you're willing to do something in front of everyone, how much evil intent can you have?

[thesquanderer]

52. Ah yes! Famously known as "The Trump defense." Commonly invoked during corruption.

if you do it in plain sight, then obviously your motives were not bad!

This should be unnecessary, but...

[treestar]

91. Not as bad as if you sneakily did it

with no one around. If you know you are doing wrong, you probably don't go around in public. You're overreacting. Things are not either/or. Totally evil or totally innocent.

[Tom Rinaldo]

33. Thank you.

I can understand those who are hesitant about a rush to judgement regarding Cuomo (though it is looking worse for him daily. What I don't understand though is a rush to defend him in the face of credible allegations against him by former Democratic staffers of his own and Biden's without an independent investigation that supports his position on these incidents. New York State has a Democratic Attorney General. This is not just a Republican set up, and if somehow I'm wrong about that, the truth will come out.

[Klaralven]

35. The photo is obviously bogus - What happened to his lower lip and half his chin?

[pnwmom]

37. He appears to be biting his lower lip. And in doing so, he pulled in his little chin. nt

[Klaralven]

38. No, If you magnify the image, his chin protrudes under the white triangle. Obvious alteration. nt

[pnwmom]

39. That is just a smirk. But you don't even have to enlarge the picture

to see the frown line between her eyes.

She is NOT happily smiling, as some seem to think. She is frowning with her lips up, which is due to her discomfort.

[FreeState]

130. No it's not - it's a hot spot

When taking photos of their is a bright light that has no detail it. This can distort items next to it - especially in a dark room with a camera phone.

[Klaralven]

139. A hot spot wouldn't have the well-defined shape and straight edges that the white triangle has. nt

[LisaL]

41. So, he asked if he could kiss her at a wedding reception?

What do you want to do with him for that?
Life imprisonment? He asked permission.

[pnwmom]

44. How does that change anything? She had just met him; she wasn't a friend. And he "asked" that

with both his hands holding her face, after telling her she was was "aggressive" because she had just removed a hand from the small of his back.

So his response to getting one hand removed was to place BOTH hands on her, and to hold her head in place. And then to "ask."

I completely understand why she felt pressured and uncomfortable, and why she came forward to support the staffers who complained about his behavior.

[LisaL]

46. His behavior could be better.

But it's hardly a criminal offence.

[thesquanderer]

56. It serves to lend credence to the two women for whom it would be...

...a more serious charge of sexual harassment in the workplace.

Being a lout at a social gathering with lots of alcohol may be construed as merely distasteful. But you know what else lowers people inhibitions, besides alcohol? Power.

[pnwmom]

94. No one's saying it's a criminal offense. But it supports the story of the woman

who said she was subject to sexual harassment, including an unwanted kiss, by Cuomo at her workplace.

[kcr]

47. Where is the idea that a wedding reception makes it okay coming from?

Yours is not the first post. It's ludicrous.

[LisaL]

50. It's not a workplace.

NT

[kcr]

69. Because workplace harassers are angels outside of them?

[BannonsLiver]

48. I trust no one in this situation.

[Demsrule86]

54. This is ridiculous...a public place with cameras everywhere...Sorry I think this all nonsense...

piling on now...just pure BS.

[iemanja]

60. What you call "piling on" is evidence of a pattern of conduct

It's what always happens when predators are exposed. That point should be obvious. In fact, I'm sure it is.

[Demsrule86]

78. It was a kiss on the cheek at a wedding...I see no pattern that would require anything from

Cuomo. When will learn not to allow the GOP to destroy our effected elected officials. We lost Kate Hill's seat, we lost Franken, we almost lost Biden who was the only candidate who could beat Trump IMHO, we almost lost Northam and Fairfax...so stupid IMHO to allow this to happen over and over.

[iemanja]

87. You didn't lose Franken's seat

Tina Smith is a Democrat. You were not a constituent of Franken's anyway, so why you think you had some sort of right to decide who should represent the people of Minnesota escapes me. Cuomo's replacement would be a Democrat. Northam is still governor of Virginia. You didn't lose Biden. The Democratic Party did not lose a seat.

It's particularly fascinating that you consider the men whose allegations did not hurt their political careers as "lost." The mere fact that a man faced allegations from an inconsequential woman seems to be an outrage to you.

And then, you have decided the women in question have no right to decide who touches them. You decided whatever happens to them is too insignificant to trouble the career of the superior man. Those women don't belong to you. You do not get to decide who touches them and when. That is their right. Never mind that Cuomo's behavior violates policies about sexual harassments that are in place in every company and public employer in this country, including with certainty the state of New York. Never mind that state employees have almost certainly been fired for the same behavior. Cuomo must be defended at all costs because the mere fact that he is a male, Democratic politician makes him superior.

I do not believe your excuses. I see what is going on.

[Demsrule86]

88. She is OK-like her...but she is not as strong as Franken was...and her reelection is not assured

in Minnesota. And we did lose Katie Hill's seat...her seat could make the difference whether we keep the majority in the House in 22.

[pnwmom]

93. No. It was a man who, upon being introduced to a much younger woman,

placed his hand on her bare back.

And when she calmly removed the hand, he called her "aggressive" and cupped her face in BOTH hands before "asking" for a kiss.

This wasn't just "a kiss on the cheek at a wedding."

This was the act of a powerful, entitled man. And the pained expression on the younger woman's face tells us what we need to know.

[iemanja]

58. There will never be a case when a Democratic man assaults or harasses

a woman when a certain percentage of people won't blame the women. Male supremacy depends on their excuses. Women cannot have rights over their own bodies; that, in such a discourse, belongs to men and men only.

And the man doesn't even need to be Democratic. I've seen the same thing with random celebrities, athletes (even high school athletes), who are defended vociferously because men must never be held accountable for any sort of sexual transgression against a woman.

They pretend it's about politics. Politics is only their excuse. It's about who they are and they society they are committed to maintaining.

[Demsrule86]

61. I would say this, the same bullshit happened twice to Joe Biden. Donald Trump would

be president today had those who were after Biden succeeded. I find particularly the latest one to be complete not credible. We can't allow this to continue or the GOP will destroy every effective Democrat.

[iemanja]

64. Joe Biden did NOT have a series of women coming forward

and the one I know of who did had committed perjury in court. If a series of women have come forward regarding Biden, his nomination and election would have been sunk. That wasn't the case. This situation is not the same. To pretend the case about Cuomo is the work of the GOP doesn't hold water. A Democrat would take Cuomo's position, just like a Dem took Franken's position. As I said, invoking politics is an excuse. This is about promoting a culture in which women are held as permanent second class citizens, subject to men's control over their bodies. I'm done with the bullshit.

[Demsrule86]

75. Yes he did. I won't post this but here is a link you can look yourself.

https://www.thecut.com/2020/04/joe-biden-accuser-accusations-allegations.html And I would like to point out this is considered a left site.

Of course the allegations were bullshit and thank God he survived and Trump is not president.

[pnwmom]

70. No, it didn't. Anita Hill wasn't accusing Biden of harassment.

She didn't think Biden's committee did a good job handling her accusation against Thomas.

[Demsrule86]

73. I wasn't referring to Anita...I was talking about Lucy Flores and Tara Reade and a few of the

' Me Too' types who jumped aboard in both cases as is happening with Cuomo. Had they succeeded in destroying Biden Trump would be president...and we many end up with a GOP governor in New York if this continues.

[ahoysrcsm]

68. I saw this one on TV the other night...

He gets slapped, right? Because that's what happened on that sitcom I was watching.

[pnwmom]

92. How many sit coms have you seen where the harassed is 30 or 40 years younger? n/t

[ahoysrcsm]

110. I can probably find the video on youtube...

Can't remember the show it aired about 30 years ago, basically a man was hitting on a woman. Guy looked to be about 50s maybe 60s and the woman was in her early 20s. He said some smart-ass comment about her looks and she slapped him. Is that not how women handle the situation these days?

[pnwmom]

112. No. It wasn't how most women handled it even 30 years ago. When I was a young woman

it just mortified me and, depending on the circumstances, sometimes scared me.

And do you honestly think that women who were sexually harassed in the workplace 30 years ago, as two of Cuomo's accusers claim, would have dared to slap their boss?

But we are now in the post Anita Hill era. Post Harvey Weinstein, Post Bill Cosby, etc.

There is NO excuse for an intelligent man to still be behaving this way in 2019 (when Ms. Ruche's incident occurred.)

[ahoysrcsm]

114. Not going to bother looking it up now...

Not worth the time. I'm going to stop here.
Hope something comes of this that doesn't hurt the Democratic Party.

Have a good day.

[gldstwmn]

84. The NY Democratic party

Seems to have a few factions. I watched Mayor DeBlasio condemn Cuomo's behavior yesterday.
Should Cuomo have done these things? No. Should he resign? No. Should he modify his behavior? Yes.
I think there are factions on both sides that would like to see him out of the way. It's hard to say if that is why all of this is coming out now. You can best believe that Trump would like a Republican governor who could pardon him once all the investigations come to fruition.

[Pongo]

89. Thank you again for a good post. Someone even told me it didn't happen unless there was a link.

Which I provided. I’ve been reading this board for a long time, but I never expected this kind of reaction here. It’s disappointing, not to mention confusing.

[treestar]

100. Do Republican women

ever make that charge?

[moondust]

103. Needs investigating, but...

there are some possible mitigating circumstances including but not limited to:

GQPers have no shame or restraint when it comes to lying and smearing in the pursuit of power and money. Big Lie continues to this day without evidence after several months.

Did any accusations against Cuomo surface before Trump left office and faced serious legal jeopardy in NY? (Pardon theory.)

Not an excuse but are "Italian" men known for being overly "tactile"?
Description of Italians from 2014:

- They’re a very huggy, very kissy, very touchy-feely kind of people (and I do mean this outside of the romantic sense as well).
- Despite the reputation that Italian men have for being overly amorous (which is a rather appropriate reputation, frankly), they are still a rather chivalrous bunch.
https://ramblingsuitcase.com/2014/02/27/oh-those-italians/

[pnwmom]

108. How would having the female Lt. Gov. become Governor make things better for Trump? nt

[kcr]

109. This is one claim I simply do not get

I saw someone somewhere refer to it as BlueAnon and I'm glad I wasn't taking a sip of a drink at that moment.

[moondust]

111. Well...

a few minutes ago a guest on Nicolle Wallace's show said those calling for Cuomo to resign are mainly political rivals, like DeBlasio. I know nothing about the Lt. Gov. but it's possible that she really, really, really wants to be gov. regardless of how it affects Trump.

Then there's the possibility that GQPers believe the Lt. Gov. would be easier to beat in an election so they could then pardon Trump.

[uponit7771]

149. +1, this is what I'm thinking GQP thinks female would be easier to beat and Cuomo was popular. I've

... looked at Bennet's allegations and I need to see more there there.

Sounds like they were having a personal conversation once where Cuomo got too personal about himself and her but NOTHING sexual advancing himself on her verbally or physically or non verbal.

This looks to be a single conversation where they were sharing personal information and it didn't happen again.

#MeToo shouldn't be turned into #I'mJustUncomfortable.

[Blue_true]

115. I saw that picture. The woman was clearly not into what was happening.

The Governor’s behavior was beyond inappropriate.

[pnwmom]

116. Someone was just asking me why women didn't just slap a man who did that

like they would have in the sit-coms of 30 years ago.

Can you imagine the young woman who had that worried, uncomfortable look on her face slapping Gov. Cuomo?

And if she had, she would probably have been arrested for assault.

[Blue_true]

117. Every point that you made was right on target.

Look at the situation posted about on DU, where a woman bit a man’s tongue off. Both people were strangers to each other. The woman was arrested for assault and maiming. Apparently, no thought was given to exactly why a stranger to her put his tongue in her mouth.

If that woman had vaulted off the floor and put a hard knee in Coumo’s groin, she would have left in handcuffs and would be facing big legal bills.

[pnwmom]

123. I missed that awful story. YUK! n/t

[Blue_true]

125. It was nasty. I guess both people may have been tipsy.

But even with that, the man should have at least been charged for assault for his tongue going into the mouth of another person, without that person’s permission.

[Boydog]

122. The Franken treatment