I'm increasingly disturbed and disappointed at how many here are defending sexual harassment.

[Lunabell]

If there were reports and pictures of a Democrat in black face or using a"slant eyed gesture" or telling racist jokes, would you hold him to the same standard?

A hostile working place is a serious matter, whether it is sexual harassment or racism. We are Democrats, not republicans.

[speak easy]

1. "If there were reports and pictures of a Democrat in black face"

That's Ralph Northam, and he is still VA Governor. He stood his ground.

[Lunabell]

5. That was years ago in college.

It wasn't at work or a current event like 2019.

[liberal_mama]

6. They tried very hard to get Ralph Northam to resign

I thought he would cave into the pressure and resign, but he refused. Justin Trudeau had a black face scandal too.

[FSogol]

35. I'm glad Northam stayed. He's been an excellent Governor. n/t

[uponit7771]

2. I'm even more disturbed at what people are calling sexual harassment and doing Franken

... all over again expecting different results when it comes to letting all the evidence come through.

Squeezing love handles too hard isn't the same as someone being raped or someone using power to take advantage of a person.

#MeToo shouldn't be #I'mUncomfortable

Yes I would hold a democrat to the same standard and give them the BOTD relative to their work and forthrightness.

The kGOP pols have lost the BOTD seeing they supported a text book white supremacist in Trump

[empedocles]

9. TY

[ScratchCat]

11. I agree with this

Its similar to the claim made against Morgan Friedman, which was someone feeling "uncomfortable" presented as "something else" during the height of the MeToo movement.

[Ms. Toad]

13. Whether you think it "should be" or not -

Uncomfortable enough to alter work conditions, from the persepctive of reasonable person of the same gender, is the standard for hostile work environment.

Cuomo's admitted acts fit that definition.

[Demsrule86]

24. I don't think so.

[uponit7771]

29. Its persons in the context of jury and not a single person. I doubt, based off the information

... so far, that majority of persons in a jury would agree that there was a HWE towards one person or persons based on what I've heard so far.

I don't see anything Cuomo admitted showing a HWE, I'll wait till investigations are over I'm still rationally skeptical seeing what happened to Franken.

[Ms. Toad]

32. Persons of the same gender. Not generic persons on the jury. n/t

[Mossfern]

124. What is HWE?

I googled it and found something about genetics.
Please write out with words - thanks.

[MichMan]

146. Hostile Work Environment

[Mossfern]

148. Thanks

I worked for the County- definition of HWE.
Not saying which county because even in retirement I fear retribution!

I did file harassment charges against a co-worker and got punished for it.
My punishment turned out to be a blessing, but believe me, I know what that is.

[ahoysrcsm]

156. Context is key. Try this next time.

sexual harassment HWE

[eShirl]

25. Nobody is saying it's the same as being raped.

[uponit7771]

37. This is false, unwanted advances is what I just heard on CNN. I have plenty of unwanted

... advances towards me daily but I don't ask people to be fired.

[Pongo]

54. You have "plenty of advances" towards you DAILY? Wowza!

At work?

[uponit7771]

59. When I was working yes, they weren't sexual and they made me uncomfortable ...

... and that was exactly what I was saying is being intimated on CNN.

This whole push reminds me of Franken 2.0 and Biden last year which makes me think this is rodent sex

[Pongo]

63. "Rodent sex"? What am I missing here?

[uponit7771]

66. Rat Fuckin, Reid was a bold faced damn liar but outside of her there also was a pile on

... onto him.

I don't care who it is when I see this guilty by accusation pushes I tend to want to wait on all the evidence to come in sans a kGOP who supported an admitted sexual predator in Trump

[Bettie]

73. Rat Fucking

Ratfucking is an American slang term for political sabotage or dirty tricks, particularly pertaining to elections. It was brought to public attention by Bob Woodward and Carl Bernstein in the book which chronicled their investigative reporting of the Watergate affair, All the President's Men. Wikipedia

[Pongo]

104. Whoosh! Went right over my head! Duh.

Thank you lol!

[treestar]

126. There is a lot of either/or though

if you mention that it's not the same, or that it seems like awkward flirting rather than sexual harassment.

Look at the OP assuming we agree that it is harassment and are defending it! Straw man.

[Phoenix61]

47. So much of this. He's been governor for how long?

And it’s not until now that anyone has said anything? How about an investigation and we see what’s what instead of going all in on allegations.

[uponit7771]

55. Right ?! I don't like the context and the push for too much too fast for too guilty makes me

... more suspicious that this is rodent sex.

I'll wait and willing to change my mind based on the evidence

[Grasswire2]

85. Yeah, now when a known sexual predator could benefit greatly from Cuomo's resignation.

...a known sexual predator who will stop at nothing to get away with his crimes.

[bamagal62]

113. I find it all quite suspicious.

[Pongo]

61. So if Cuomo did that to a man instead of a woman, would you just say he should deal with it?

Too bad if he felt uncomfortable? Or is it just women who should deal with it?

[uponit7771]

67. Like in Italy? Eastern France? Middle East? Where men do this shit all the time to ...

... each other and holding hands with a man is a sign of affection?

I can understand her thinking he went to far if I just take what she said 100 without Cuomo's side of the story but to me that's not a fire-able offense and neither is "you've dated older men?" in a context of relationships etc.

Maybe I'm missing something but this looks like another Franken 2.0

[Pongo]

112. We're not in those countries, are we?

You didn’t answer my question anyway. Oh well.

[uponit7771]

115. Yes, in this country men kiss each other on the face in some culture. Come on man

... what are you really getting at?

I think his actions are no doubt inappropriate and creepy but doesn't represent a pattern that establishes a fire-able offense.

If there's more evidence I'll change my mind

no, only women shouldn't "deal with it".

[Pongo]

116. If you review my posts, I've said nowhere that he should resign.

I have said that I think a public mea culpa is in order. With a real apology. He knows what he did. It’s gross, it’s creepy, and it’s wrong.

[uponit7771]

117. 👍🏾

[Mossfern]

127. That would be political suicide

Maybe it's my age?

[Pongo]

131. I don't know. Mea culpas go a long way these days. He's facing political problems anyway.

I think it would make most of us Dems happier (if not happy), and the Qfolk don’t have a leg to stand on.

[Mossfern]

138. My concern is

that mea culpas go a long way for Republican interests.
Q folk don't need a leg to stand on - they float in the stratosphere of alternative reality.
If Cuomo doesn't do a mea culpa do you think that NY Democrats will vote Republican?

[Pongo]

143. I hope they won't. I know nothing of NY voters. I know Cunningham lost in NC when he was

way in the lead. Such a damn shame, all of this. Clinton, Edwards, Cunningham all lied to begin with. I don’t know about other people, but a quick and abject apology goes a long way. The truth always comes out, doesn’t it?

[Pongo]

139. Sooo, you think it would be all acceptable if he had done this to a young man he met at a wedding.

Got it. I call bs on that. He’d already have been tossed out on his ear. And it’s not acceptable to do that to either men or women you don’t know. Period.

[chowder66]

159. Men and women both have the power to state their boundaries

and Cuomo needs to learn how to behave accordingly. I think both sides could use a little coaching.

[uponit7771]

166. If that was his culture, America is a big country 3rd largest by population on the planet

... and I've been grabbed by my face for a kiss before at events and I was older.

To some I can see this goes to far but the creepy look is what gets administered not a #MeToo moment or a "come out" against Cuomo in the context of a fire-able or jail-able offense.

Yes, I've seen this very thing done ... it matters the culture.

The work place stuff is different and I just read one of the accounts was countered by people that were there.

Again, starting to look like rodent sex ...

We can hold our side accountable without taking them to the guillotine first

[Pongo]

167. It didn't happen in another culture. It happened here. If my dog had wheels, she'd could be a

shopping cart. I’m not sure why you keep positing this happened in some other country.

[ahoysrcsm]

158. What if it was the Lt Govenor of NY doing that...

towards a man. Would you feel the same way?

[Ferrets are Cool]

70. This

[wryter2000]

87. Squeezing love handles against someone's will

is assault.

[uponit7771]

90. REALLY ?! How bout you OP this very point, I'm curious about what the consensus would be

... on DU in the context of Franken taking a picture with someone who came forward to claim he made her uncomfortable while taking a picture.

I think going and squeezing anyone's fat anywhere not knowing them or just out of the blue would be text book assault but he held her too tight during a picture !?

Really ?!

[wryter2000]

95. From the Cornell Law School

Definition
The definition of assault varies by jurisdiction, but is generally defined as intentionally putting another person in reasonable apprehension of an imminent harmful or offensive contact. Physical injury is not required.

[link:https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/assault|

I would call grabbing my love handles offensive.

[lillypaddle]

98. I'm with you 100%

JFC on a bicycle, if I had screamed sexual harassment every time a coworker or boss said something inappropriate, well, life would have turned out much differently. Some of these people need to get over themselves.

[hunter]

164. The women in my family have zero tolerance of sexual harassment and have been fired for that.

They've been known to punch gropers in the mouth.

I'm a child of matriarchy.

My great grandmas were fierce women of the Wild West. At least one of my great grandmas was the sort of woman who could kill a bad man and call her friend the coroner to clean up the mess.

One of my grandmas was a witch who could castrate a bad man with her words. She was a cowboy who went to work in the shipyards as a welder during World War II. She was such a fine welder they kept her on after the war ended.

Alas she was then relegated to all the work the manly men found least manly. It made her a little bitter.

Is a world where women are expected to tolerate that "boys will be boys" bullshit okay with you?

I quit high school because of that "boys will be boys" bullshit.

If I was Emperor of the Earth I'd have all these creeps castrated. Three strikes, mister, your balls are mine.

I can't know if my rant has anything to do with Cuomo or not.

[Jose Garcia]

3. Some people are treating like some kind of fringe benefit,

arguing that Democrats should be free to abuse their staff since some Republicans have gotten away with it.

[demmiblue]

14. Yeah, that has been very disturbing. Grotesque, in fact. n/t

[AZSkiffyGeek]

21. Tells me that they really don't care about Trump or Judge Moore's actions

If it's okay for Cuomo, why isn't it okay for Trump?

[AnotherMother4Peace]

60. This post lacks specifics: "Some people"? who? "treating like some kind of fringe

benefit"? treating what like some kind of fringe benefit?

"Democrats" - referring to who?

"abuse their staff" - what is the abuse? who are the staff?

"some Republicans have gotten away with it" - what Republicans? what is "it"?

My questions would be: What accusations have been proven? Who are the parties involved? What has been proven?

We all saw an attempt to derail Joe Biden as he was running for president. There were accusations by a woman followed by immediate "outrage" & calls for him to step aside. This was before anything was examined & before she imploded.

This is a typical GOP dirty trick.

[SharonClark]

120. That's a shocking allegation. Do you have a link!

[treestar]

128. No, that is just a complaint about the

double standard.

[Bettie]

4. So, just toss out anyone based on any accusation?

That should work well.

Did you also declare that Biden should have dropped out of the race when people said he was too touchy-feely? I am genuinely curious about the answer to this question.

Frankly, the other side supports their people to the bitter end while we jettison ours the second there is an allegation of any kind from any source.

[Demsrule86]

27. Yup if nthe GOP had succeeded in getting rid of Northam and Fairfax and the AG...next in line, they

would be running Virginia now...time to stop the BS of letting the GOP destroy strong Democrats. Also, if Lucy Flores and Tara Reade had succeeded in my opinion, Trump would be President.

[Mr.Bill]

42. On conservative websites, he's often called "Pedo Joe"

because there are actual pictures of him touching a child.

[phylny]

49. Touching a child *where* exactly on the child's body?

[Mr.Bill]

53. I'm talking about hand on the shoulder or a pat on the head.

Nothing sexual at all. But that's all it takes for them to label him a pedophile. By their standards all of us (and them) are pedophiles.

[Demsrule86]

82. Ok...and we can't stop that but we can stop giving it credence.

We must never never destroy our own because of ratfucking...or it never ends.

[Mr.Bill]

86. Who is we?

I haven't seen anyone but right wingnuts giving it credence.

[Demsrule86]

103. Were you here during the primary? There were multiple threads supporting flores and later Reid.

We could have lost our change to stop Trump from being reelected. I don't think anyone else could have beat Trump.

[Mr.Bill]

107. Okay, right.

I thought you were referring to my reference about Biden being called a pedophile.

[Pongo]

51. I don't go to conservative websites. How nice of you to bring that here.

[Mr.Bill]

56. It's good to know what the enemy is thinking.

I'm sure by now they are calling Cuomo a serial rapist.

[Crunchy Frog]

68. I think that's a Qanon thing. They think that all Dems are part of a global cabal of pedophiles.

They think Biden's a pedophile simply because he's a Democrat.

[Demsrule86]

81. Are you insinuating that there are pictures of Joe Biden touching a child inappropriately?

I call bullshit on that.

[Generic Other]

121. I believe the photo they refer to

was taken at his son's funeral and he is consoling his granddaughter. Disgusting, no?

[Lunabell]

7. And here yall are

[Pongo]

17. Yeah, showed up pretty darn quick. Though one of the more vocal from the other threads

Hasn’t arrived yet.

[Tree-Hugger]

78. With their friends

Toxic masculinity and internalized misogyny.

The shit here is exactly why many victims don't come forward or wait "too long" to report.

[Tree-Hugger]

8. Yep

[brush]

10. Are you not aware of how Tara Reade's lies almost forced Biden from...

the presidential campaign? We might still have trump in the WH if that had happened.

Many, including me, are calling for investigations into the Cuomo allegations, not jumping to conclusions. That is not defending sexual harassment.

And of course there was the Al Franken case where he was pre-maturely forced from office without an investigation.

I say investigate, investigate, investigate.

[Lunabell]

23. Whataboutism.

[uponit7771]

40. Reide was a liar and suggesting Cuomo should take action before a thorough investigation

... is just the opposite of what's needed here.

That's not a deflection that's the truth

[Lunabell]

44. Read my post again.

I didn't even mention Cuomo.

[brush]

45. Please. Are you opposed to investigating the allegations?

[Politicub]

12. This is a false question. And a strawman argument to boot.

I'm disturbed and disappointed about people defending sexual harassment, too. These accusations should be investigated, and in a corporation, I believe that HR should be required to investigate. They typically do get investigated in companies because of criminal and civil liabilities for perpetuating a hostile work environment.

Now, if you want to argue about people in black face, etc., I think those portrayals of minorities are abhorrent. However, that's not what is happening with Cuomo. It's a different story, and we will learn more examining it on its merits instead of making some kind of blanket moral argument.

There are some places on DU for you to discuss these issues. It seems that Dr. Seuss is trending on DU today because it is coming to light how racist some of his works are.

[bullimiami]

15. I dont see defense of sexual harassment. I see people asking for facts

and due process instead of tar and feathers.

[kcr]

102. If all they were doing is asking for facts and due process

it would be fine. But they aren't. Instead, there are all kinds of awful victim smearing and blaming, claims of "Al Frankening" which claims the victims are lying and are part of a GOP smear campaign, comments about how women like that kind of attention, and you could make a drinking game out of the phrase "eat our own" All of that is 100% sexual harassment defense.

[SharonClark]

122. Where are you reading that on DU?

Do you have links?

[kcr]

129. Sure do

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100215177975

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=15176822

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=15175883

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100215174312

This one's a doozy https://www.democraticunderground.com/100215175634

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100215176365

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100215176365#post48

I could go on. There are many more. But this is a start.

[Decoy of Fenris]

142. Don't mind me, just replying here so I can hop to your post if necessary. n/t

[kcr]

144. Any time n/t

[bullimiami]

130. ive not seen any of that. it is wrong to assume or claim anything without some actual facts.

so that would be unacceptable.

[kcr]

132. I've provided links

Plus, all one need do is look right in this very thread.

If you're talking about the accusation, there's a picture. Plus he's admitted it, even if he's downplaying it. He hasn't said they're lying. Because they aren't.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

16. People love to protect offensive men, as long as they're OUR offensive men.

[Pongo]

18. One of the most horrifying posts I saw here was from a woman.

She said she would “love it” if he did to her what he did with Ruch.

[SharonClark]

118. I must have missed that. Do you have a link?

[Lunabell]

19. I'm disgusted with many here.

Even saw a post where someone blamed women.for inviting sexual harassment. Here on a Democratic site. Sad

[ChubbyStar]

30. Was this the "ladies" liked it post?

That was weird.

[Lunabell]

39. I don't recall.

But it made me sick. Some of these replies here are disturbing to me too. Can't people just get it through their stupid heads that sexual harassment is not ok on any level, no matter who does it?

[SharonClark]

123. You can't "recall" but you're throwing allegations

at members of DU like toilet paper after the homecoming game. I’ve never read any of the nasty things you claim DUers are posting so why should I believe you?

[Decoy of Fenris]

152. Here's a word for word quote supporting that other poster's accusation.

"Do not tell me the ladies did not like the attention they were getting at the time..sorry! I am also liberal..."

It's against DU's TOS (or Community Standards, or whatever it's called) to post a callout link, so all I can offer is the quote itself. No DUer who's been here longer than a month would provide a link either, since it's expressly frowned upon and (I think) banworthy.


Just because you don't see something doesn't mean it isn't happening. Trust me, there's a ton of other quotes just like that one floating around.

[Pongo]

46. There are more than a few of those type posts. "She was smiling." He was just "flirting."

“Maybe she gave him ‘signals’.” And there’s one woman here who has posted at least twice that she would have loved him to do that. Blecchh.

[ChubbyStar]

62. I have to believe that people posting these things have never experienced the humiliation/fear

of having an unwanted and terrifying advance from a man. The "crush" comment was very revealing.

[Celerity]

145. yes lots of really problematic posts atm. such as (paraphrasing) women can't be equal unless they

stop being victims

wtf

I must have missed the 'ladies like it' one

sigh

I just want a full investigation and not a rush to judgement

[demmiblue]

157. Just putting this here (because it's biology... oy!)

All women, and I got more than my share because I had a full set at an early age, are going to experience unwanted behavior from men. Sorry but it's nature. Men want to procreate (so do women) and they want it now and they want it all the time. Women just want to marry (at 13) and have babies, so they aren't looking to just "hook up" but settle down so they are basically prey. Men are all about spreading that seed far and wide. You will never change that behavior on the whole, never. It's human nature. It is natural. If we do not procreate we cease to exist.

I can't believe such shite is posted here.

[Celerity]

163. holy fuck, that is one of the top 10 worst posts I have even seen here

Sexist, misogynistic, homophobic, hebephilic, deterministic in a 'might makes right in terms of submission to the patriarchal marriage concept' way, and employs false biologic destiny/purpose for women (the breeder, the vessel as the endgame raison d'être). All of that in service to crackpot theories and weak AF projections/dodgy rationale. The only thing they forgot to add is a vigorous defence of Lebensborn e.V., just to bring in a racist aspect too, for the bonus prize of hitting most all major hate/subjugation manifestations and pathologies in regards to identity/sexualisation.

Shameful someone posted that shit.

[Cozmo]

97. Yeah, it's pretty effing amazing, huh? Lunabell I applaud your posts on this issue

[SharonClark]

119. Do you have a link?

[Mike 03]

31. Yes. This is reminding me of the *few* people here who ran to defend

Justin Fairfax against even more grave allegations, literally only three or so months after we went through the nightmare of the Kavanaugh confirmation with so many GOP senators accusing Christine Blasey Ford of fabricating her sexual assault accusations.

Cuomo hasn't been accused of anything like Fairfax was yet, but it's that reflex to jump to his defense that worries me in the sense that we need to be consistent.

It's not the same: I haven't seen anyone here accuse the women of being frauds, or of Cuomo of being "railroaded" by Republican operatives. It just reminds me of how sick I felt seeing people defend Fairfax. So I empathize with the OP at that level.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Justin_Fairfax#Sexual_assault_allegations

[brush]

50. Come on now. Are you opposed to investigating the allegations?

Without investigations anyone can make accusations and we Dems are supposed to automatically called for resignations without finding out if allegations are true.

No. Of course not.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

154. Pretty sure I didn't say any of that, but okay!

[uponit7771]

71. It'd be offensive to label Cuomo offensive before the investigation is over, how many Biden

... / Franken's do dems have to go through to wait for all information to come in

[WhiskeyGrinder]

155. Lmao

[spanone]

20. allegations

needs to be an investigation.

[Pongo]

22. You know what would be really interesting. How many of these posters would say the same

if he had done that to a young man? Pretty sure I know the answer. Women are supposed to just take this kind of crap from men, I guess.

[Lunabell]

26. Yep.

We apparently don't deserve the same rights as men.

[Pongo]

28. Yes, how dare we expect not to feel "uncomfortable" when men hit on us in the workplace?

Silly us, right?

[treestar]

133. back when young if someone I did not like

hit on me, I was always "uncomfortable." But would not have seen it as harassment.

[Pongo]

136. I was uncomfortable. I'm gonna bet this didn't happen to my male coworkers.

I didn’t see it as harassment then, but that’s because it was a damn long time ago in a fucking galaxy I’m fucking glad to see gone. If you’re talking about workplace “hitting on”, well, good for you for not feeling that was out of line. I sure as hell did.

[treestar]

147. I don't know why you're obsessed with males

They can be victims of sexual harassment too. And can be hit on by someone they don't like. It can't be harassment just to hit on someone who it turns out just isn't interested.

[brush]

52. That's ridiculous. Investigations should be called for in either case.

You should probably retract that post.

[BlueLucy]

33. I'm not disturbed at all.

Democrats need to be like republicans and let these accusations roll off.

[The Magistrate]

34. People Are Not 'Defending Sexual Harrassment', Ma'am

People are prioritizing.

Many think that a better focus for media attention, and Democratic and left energies, would be keeping a spotlight on GQP attempts to rig the coming election through restricting ballot access.

Many think coverage of Director Wray's testimony today would be a better ornament for headlines and teaser blurbs.

None of this requires defense of Gov. Cuomo on the merits. I have little doubt he behaved in a manner that made young women uncomfortable. In the general scheme of things, that really does not weigh too much just now.

Like everything else, outrage has limits, and is best budgeted. At present, my inclination is to be unconcerned by any charge leveled against a prominent Democrat that falls short of a violent felony. We have at present an entire political party making a serious run at converting the United States into a one-party authoritarian nation. That concerns me deeply, deeply enough to leave scant room for much else.

And do not imagine any popular credit will be gained by 'avoiding any appearance of hypocrisy'. No one cares, and what most people see is a political body that won't fight to protect its prominent members. That is not a body people think will fight very hard for them.

Focusing on charges of this sort against Gov. Cuomo is simply doing the GQP's work for it, and they won't even give back a kiss for the assistance.

[dalton99a]

48. +1. There is a major political party that wants to literally kill Democrats

and people are obsessed about purity?

If Cuomo is unfit, impeach him. If he committed a crime, prove it in court.

[stopdiggin]

57. Wow. Square on the head!

wish I'd said it, but it wouldn't have turned out half as well

"Like everything else, outrage has limits, and is best budgeted."

" - simply doing the GQP's work for it, and they won't even give back a kiss for the assistance."

[Tommymac]

101. Just an awesome reply.

In normal times I may not even be at DU as I could get booted for being too progressive.

But Our Democracy is more important then any potential 'wedge' issue.

We need to secure IT first. This is NOT 1968. Or 2008.

Gov Cuomo will eventually be held accountable, or the MSM and the Party will owe him a huge apology.

I sort of cringe a bit at the second because I simply do not like him; but I will defend him staunchly without rancor until the FACTS are gathered in an IMPARTIAL and LEGAL manner and presented to the public.

[BlueTsunami2018]

105. Spot on.

I couldn’t quite find the words but this is what I meant in my other posts on the subject.

It’s no longer hyperbole to say the Republicans are a flat out fascist party. We simply cannot do their work for them, particularly when they have walked away Scott free from treason and murder. These people would happily kill us all and we’re calling for a major figure in our party to resign without any investigations for asking for a kiss?

[Mossfern]

134. Thank you!

[treestar]

135. "Defending sexual harassment" is an unfair charge

It seems accusation is enough for some people.

[LymphocyteLover]

169. Spot on

[Crunchy Frog]

36. I haven't seen it myself. What I've been seeing is people advocating not making snap judgements

without sufficient evidence.

I think people have seen a good Democrat get railroded before, and want to be more careful about evaluating all the facts this time.

I think you may be reading things into posts that aren't actually there.

[SoonerPride]

38. I for one haven't seen anyone defending sexual harassment.

I have seen posts asking to see the FACTS first before rushing to judgment or asking anyone to resign.

But I haven't read every post.

So if there are people defensing sexual harassment, then I guess you are right to be upset about it.

[Lunabell]

41. I think jury service is like fight club.

You aint supposed to talk about it.

[Mossfern]

141. Heh!

[wryter2000]

65. If I'm not mistaken

I saw you post in another thread to say he ought to stay if the allegations are true. After the evidence is in. Not acting to see the facts at all.

[link:https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=15177368|n.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=15177368]

[SoonerPride]

76. That is not a defense of sexual harassment.

He should face consequences for inappropriate behavior, if substantially proven.

And he would indeed face the consequences from the voters.

[wryter2000]

84. And how many other women's careers do we let him harm

while we wait for the voters to decide?

[SoonerPride]

88. Talk about a rush to judgment.

Perhaps we should wait until the NY AG comes forth with her findings. How about that.

You know.

Evidence and an open mind.

But I guess that's not as exciting as burning people at the stake once someone accuses them of witchcraft.

[wryter2000]

96. I am all for an investigation

But the other thread presumes that the investigation has already been done and determined that he did, indeed, do what the accusers said he did.

[treestar]

137. How many women does a perpetrator harm

during the time no one says anything, because that's too painful.

He's not proven guilty either.

[stopdiggin]

43. people actually defending sexual harassment

are few and far between on this site. If you are pointing at those exceedingly few (which I don't think the case) fine. If not -- you are being intellectually dishonest.

People have seen where the "we're better" argument has taken us before. "Let's take a look" is not at all the same thing as saying someone is absolved. And climbing on a bandwagon is a far cry from holding the higher moral ground.

What people are tired of (and legitimately rejecting) is 'trial by media' and rush to judgement.

[brush]

64. Exactly. Very well said. Investigate. Investigate. Investigate.

[LizBeth]

58. This is what makes sexism so insidious. We can always kinda understand you know, the poor man.

It really isn't that big deal deal, biology, say what?

The young women just have to be able to say, fuck you to the boss, without repercussion. Because what does the damage is the woman not having the support to challenge the inappropriate, wrong, asshole behavior without threat to position of effecting her career. And it does. Women simply speaking, can effect her career if someone does not want to hear it, Tanden getting her scold from Sanders and Manchin crap because she challenged his daughter over 400% increase in an epi pen.

So, yes.

I read an OP earlier about yes old men are attracted to young women, they are attractive. Yes, old women are attracted to young men, they are attractive, I mean so? That has nothing to do with making a work environment uncomfortable or destructive for a womans career. Fuck the man doing it.

[brush]

74. Oh, please. Have we not learned anything from Tara Reade?

If we had just accepted her lies trump might still be in office, as Biden had the best chance of beating him.

And we can't forget Al Franken being prematurely forced from office.

Just call for full investigations for God's sake. If he's guilty, so be it. No premature forcing from office.

[LizBeth]

91. Ya... and Frankin only had one silly picture. Yes, you had the Tara Reade and two weeks for

discussion we well understood the bullshit. And Frankin got taken down cause of one photo. Oh, wait, he grabbed some fat.

What is your "Oh please" ab0out. Where in my conversation is an "Oh please" warrented?

[brush]

99. Kinda like your whole post. Without sarcasm gifs after just about every sentence...

it leaves the impression, at least IMO, that investigations are not called for as too much leniency is made for men and their sexual harassment.

[LizBeth]

106. Are you arguing that TOO much leniency is NOT given to men? For a lifetime and forever?

[brush]

109. All I'm arguing for is investigations into sexual harassment allegations...

and let the chips fall where they may. If guilty, so be it. If not, we didn't fall for another Al Franken hit job.

[LizBeth]

111. Then we are on the same page. At any point if Franken wanted that investigation to this day,

it could have been done. Instead he walked away and allowed all the negative nasty anger hit one woman, go figure, in a pool of 38 senators.

I can say as easily Franken walked away as he did because he knew there was a foundation and he knew he went over the line. I would have easily respected the man if that was the case and he said, I am better than that today or I will be in the future. No biggie. But it certainly has become a biggie as Franken stays quiet, his people do the talking for him even though they have no idea and one woman is vilified.

Which would be an example of my point.

[Elessar Zappa]

69. Most I've seen are waiting to see what the investigation says.

That said, I’ve seen a few disgusting posts that belong on Republican sites, not a progressive forum. We’re supposed to be the party of women’s rights.

[brush]

79. And the party of investigations into allegations.

[Elessar Zappa]

80. Yes.

I’m for an investigation before making a judgement. Just saying I’ve seen some very sexist posts. Not that much but still too many for this site, imo.

[lark]

72. Hmm, as a former rape counselor, I have not seen that here.

I have seen requests for no rush to judgement, and I personally think that is a very reasonable request. Get the facts, then take action if warranted. Period, the end. A request for "No more Al Frankens' sacrificed on the altar of RW lies IS NOT a rush to defend him or sexul harassment.

Now if you are seeing other, more substantial claims, I could have just missed them and in that case, I apologize.

[LakeArenal]

75. Stop it. If you are referring to Cuomo shut up.

This is alleged. Quit trying Democrats in the public forum. Wait for :

An investigation. Let Anyone face their accuser(s) in a Court or hearing whatever the appropriate place is. Let’s see what evidence there is.

Quit accusing other people of “defending sexual harassment”.

If someone is abusing, insulting, or otherwise harming you on a regular basis, it's called harassment. Cruel and usually really annoying, harassment is also illegal in some cases. Harassment is a word that describes any kind of ongoing torment.

The above was from a dictionary.

No one is defending that.


I saw on picture of a alleged action where Cuomo is resting l his hands on a woman’s face. People standing around. No one shocked. Not even the woman.

That would need a lot of investigation before I would ask a man to resign.

We woman have supposedly been woke since the Seventies. Yet so many still don't speak up at the time of the action. I don’t understand that at all. Speak up and say something. Every employer I have ever had has made a move on me. Even the lesbian one. I said “not interested, let’s move on from this.” And they did. Every one.

If a politician went for my face in public I would simply say that makes me uncomfortable, which I never would because ya know what, I miss spontaneous hugs from people I know. I like it when a man says you smell good, especially when I know I do. I like to be able to tussle a kids hair and not be accused of abuse.

When I taught school, we hugged kids all the time.

[stillcool]

77. Condemnation before Investigation...

makes me disturbed and disappointed. But, then...I guess if you're a Democrat any accusation from anybody is reason for expulsion. I wonder if that's an American thing. Certainly doesn't pertain to Republicans, but like our justice system there is a different standard everywhere you look.

[brush]

83. You nailed it. What is with the few calling for Cuomo to step down with no investigation?

Investigate. If he's guilty, so be it. If not, we didn't fall for another Al Franken hit job.

[stillcool]

94. the way it's being covered, or smothered...

all over the place is interesting as well. The deluge of posts about it,...maybe people really miss Trump?

[liberalmuse]

89. Too many old men (and women) still don't get it.

You don't put your hands on anyone without their consent, be you a man or woman, and most especially if you are in a position of power in regards to your subordinates. Hell, when I was young, it was normal for men to sexually assault drunk women at parties, and it was considered the woman's fault for having too much to drink and passing out. I still deal with creepy spouses of my friends who insist on a hug for no good reason. I don't want to hug you just because I'm friends with your wife, dude.

[NotAPuppet]

92. Another thing that matters to me

is the truth. I am a woman, and I am not comfortable with some allegations. What if I came out and said that your husband touched me inappropriately 20 years ago? We were taking a picture together and his hand was too low around my waist or too far up, and I thought that he sexually harassed me. What do you suggest? Should your husband lose his job, his house, his family and everything else because of the way I felt?

How many people on this site would be comfortable with me doing this to their families? Remember, if you have to believe all "victims", then you have to believe me too, no matter how absurd my claims are.

I don't take sexual assault lightly, and I don't think that we have to be morally corrupt and turn into Republicans just because we use critical thinking and let any investigation play out first.

[Escurumbele]

93. Ask yourself how would you feel if you were accused of sexual harassment, knowing you are inocent

but having people believe you are guilty.

Would you say that is unjust? Would you tell people to wait to make judgement after an investigation is conducted?

I bet you would.

[beaglelover]

100. THIS!!!

[msfiddlestix]

108. The absence of evidence does not a Factual Matter make. n/t

[msfiddlestix]

110. I'm increasingly disturbed to see accusations made absence of evidence.

Conclusions drawn sans evidence. As a woman who have experienced both at work and in personal life, sexual harassment on a criminal level, I deplore accusations and assumption of guilt based on a claim that isn't proven.

Period.

[Steelrolled]

114. It is the nature of politics

I learned very early on that politics and tribalism come as a package, and I've accepted it. We used to call it hypocrisy, but tribalism gets more to the root of it.

[treestar]

125. No one is defending it

They are just not in total agreement with you about what it is.

Or what is bad enough to warrant resignation.

[FrankBooth]

140. Nobody is defending sexual harassment

This is war, and the Republicans have weaponized these sorts of allegations into a nuclear payload. Resigning over accusations is only for Democrats, the more prominent, the better. Anyone who says Cuomo "must resign" are naive and foolish, and being played like a fucking fiddle. No fucking way should he resign. Sometimes you have to eat a shit sandwich if it means that by doing so you can avoid having a nuclear bomb dropped on your head. It's not fair, but it's reality in the zero-sum game of politics. Unless it can be proven that he committed a criminal offense, the citizens of New York can show their disapproval the next time Cuomo runs for office. Until then, or unless the GOP harrassers begin resinging because "it's the right thing to do", he's not going anywhere, nor should he. He's an asshole, but having a Democratic asshole in office is better for women than any GOP of the Trump era could ever be.

[MichMan]

151. Is that the standard for elected officials? A criminal conviction?

Everything else can be excused?

[MFM008]

149. We need

More information.

[Deminpenn]

150. There's just a lot of nuance in these cases

Sometimes the alleged harrasser is just a jack--s, which seems to apply to Cuomo. In his case, I wouldn't discount entirely that he comes from a seriously Italian family where touching, hugging, kissing are part of the culture.

Here it's probably a generational disconnect, too.

[ahoysrcsm]

153. I will wait to pass judgement until the civil cases are resolved.

There are civil cases, right? Right???

[Hortensis]

160. If you reexamined, you'd find almost none are defending genuine sexual

harassment and you'd be less distressed.

You might start by winnowing out all those who claim to emphatically believe one side or the other. Then it'll be much easier to identify honest and objective posters with whom you can agree and disagree rationally and sensibly without undue distress.

[Politicub]

162. I'm disappointed, too. Too many posters are saying something along the lines of, "boys will

be boys."

I don't accept that that lecherous behavior is somehow acceptable because that's how some men choose to flirt and pursue women (or other men).

It's downright bizarre how people are defending what amounts to hostile work environments and papering over how some people in power leverage their position for sexual gratification.

It makes me livid, actually.

[Progressive Jones]

165. I haven't seen anyone here defending sexual harassment.

I have seen people calling for waiting for investigations to run their course.
That's where I stand.
Demanding resignations comes later.

Al Franken got fucked, period. He should have waited. So should anyone else who's been accused.

[Generic Brad]

168. There are pictures of sexual harassment in the workplace? Where?

The photo making the rounds was from a wedding and the woman in the photo was not an employee.