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Wed Mar 3, 2021, 01:10 PM

A very simple explanation of "cancel culture".


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Stonekettle
@Stonekettle
"Cancel Culture" isn't a real thing.

What republicans see as some nefarious organized mass conspiracy is nothing more than society's public rejection of unsavory actions and ideology.

It is LITERALLY the very visible hand of their own adored free market at work.
9:56 AM Mar 3, 2021

22 replies, 1405 views

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Arrow 22 replies Author Time Post
Reply A very simple explanation of "cancel culture". (Original post)
Arkansas Granny Mar 2021 OP
multigraincracker Mar 2021 #1
gratuitous Mar 2021 #2
Shermann Mar 2021 #4
gratuitous Mar 2021 #5
Shermann Mar 2021 #7
gratuitous Mar 2021 #8
Dr. Strange Mar 2021 #17
gratuitous Mar 2021 #19
Dr. Strange Mar 2021 #20
hunter Mar 2021 #10
LanternWaste Mar 2021 #11
Shermann Mar 2021 #15
Thomas Hurt Mar 2021 #3
Caliman73 Mar 2021 #6
Shermann Mar 2021 #9
LanternWaste Mar 2021 #12
hunter Mar 2021 #13
Caliman73 Mar 2021 #14
Shermann Mar 2021 #16
Initech Mar 2021 #18
Shermann Mar 2021 #21
Initech Mar 2021 #22

Response to Arkansas Granny (Original post)

Wed Mar 3, 2021, 01:38 PM

1. Invisible Hand is

Fake economics.

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Response to Arkansas Granny (Original post)

Wed Mar 3, 2021, 01:42 PM

2. What it means to me is . . .

I've decided to drop some baggage from a prior, less enlightened time. I don't need to keep the racism of a previous era alive, so I'm dropping it here and going forward without it. Oddly enough after one or two steps, I don't miss it at all.

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Response to gratuitous (Reply #2)

Wed Mar 3, 2021, 02:23 PM

4. That's fine for Dr. Seuss books

But when the "dropped baggage" is an individual without due process that's the same for everybody, that's problematic.

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Response to Shermann (Reply #4)

Wed Mar 3, 2021, 03:10 PM

5. I'll need an example

Who's been denied due process and what penalty is that person facing?

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Response to gratuitous (Reply #5)

Wed Mar 3, 2021, 04:44 PM

7. Bill Maher went through five examples last week, it's worth watching

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Response to Shermann (Reply #7)

Wed Mar 3, 2021, 04:47 PM

8. I'd prefer not to give Bill Maher any clicks

He has enough money and doesn't need any more.

Can you put one of these examples in a nutshell? Who is being denied due process and what is the penalty they're facing?

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Response to gratuitous (Reply #8)

Thu Mar 4, 2021, 11:57 AM

17. Emmanuel Cafferty was fired for making the okay gesture in public.

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Response to Dr. Strange (Reply #17)

Thu Mar 4, 2021, 12:23 PM

19. That certainly sound egregious

But Cafferty's beef isn't with due process or cancel culture, but with a precipitous firing by a twitchy employer. He still has recourse through the courts if he feels he was wrongly terminated. Perhaps worker rights need to be given a greater emphasis, which means workers pooling their resources to bargain collectively with their employer* and have their rights and responsibilities formalized by a contract binding on both sides.

*Yeah, I'm talking about a union.

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Response to gratuitous (Reply #19)

Thu Mar 4, 2021, 03:22 PM

20. The cancel culture aspect isn't the company.

It's the person chasing after him, trying to get him fired. The company caved and fired him, but a lot of companies think they have to do that avoid being canceled themselves.

Another example from a few years ago--the Chipotle manager who was fired when she was accused of racial profiling:
https://upload.democraticunderground.com/100211448016
She got fired, but then the truth came out, and after some backlash, Chipotle rehired her.

I do think strong unions might be a good counter to this particular aspect of cancel culture (Lord know it works for the cops!).

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Response to Shermann (Reply #7)

Wed Mar 3, 2021, 06:50 PM

10. I canceled Bill Maher a long time ago.

Won't click that.


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Response to Shermann (Reply #7)

Wed Mar 3, 2021, 07:02 PM

11. Nothing he provided was an example of due process being denied.

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Response to LanternWaste (Reply #11)

Wed Mar 3, 2021, 08:38 PM

15. So Emmanuel Cafferty got his due process before being fired? nt

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Response to Arkansas Granny (Original post)

Wed Mar 3, 2021, 02:21 PM

3. PC, fake news, cancel culture - all fascist newspeak for the RWNJs should never be...

disagreed with, challenged, called out for immoral behavior, etc.

Suess books being just the latest example.

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Response to Arkansas Granny (Original post)

Wed Mar 3, 2021, 03:40 PM

6. Canceling is actually a thing, just not what Conservatives see it as.

Conservatives tend to think that anything that limits THEIR ability to express their ideas, no matter how repugnant, then that is "cancel culture". They have NO problem whatsoever, limiting the speech and views of anyone else who does not comport to their specific views. Case in point, they literally cancelled the appearance of Young Pharoh at CPAC once his anti-Semitic views surfaced. I am not saying I don't agree with their decision not to have him appear, just saying that it is ironic that at a conference titled America Uncancelled, they literally cancelled a speaker for their views. Had NO problem going to the process of booking him, just when his full views were known CANCELLED.

Canceling is a thing that happens, typically online through social media. While canceling can be a complex phenomenon basically the proper usage of the term involves when a person is called out for some perceived offense based on statements, tweets, a video capturing some behavior, that someone finds offensive. Usually it involves elements of "piling on", searching through historical actions and bringing those actions into the current discussion, and essentializing (which is making the action, however minor, part of the target's essential character).

Let's say Tom Hanks (a person that can be argued, is universally thought of as a good person, and is respected). Let's say a video surfaces where Hanks is seen berating some one on the street. Hanks is seen telling someone, "Stop being such a fucking jerk, you asshole!" So, that is posted, then people start chiming in that Hanks is kind of a jerk. Then someone say's "you know, I ran into Hanks once and he treated me like shit too", then others start piling on. They talk about how they heard that co-stars on his last movie set said he would show up late. He is disrespectful. And how about when he dressed up mocking women with Peter Scalari putting on "big boobs" and acting all sexist. Suddenly Tom Hanks is an evil asshole. What is not covered in cancelling is that the guy Hanks was berating was a Paparazzi who had been following Hanks all day, and almost caused an car accident potentially injuring Hanks and his wife Rita Wilson. Hanks had a strong, however, likely appropriate response to some guy putting his and his wife's life in danger, and now people are asking for a boycott of all thinks Tom Hanks, and he is scum on the level of Sean Penn via 1990.

That is an example of cancelling.

What was done to Harvey Weinstein was calling out a serial perpetrator and ensuring that justice was done to a powerful man. What was done to Rush Limbaugh after his comments about Sanda Fluke was the same thing.

No one is trying to cancel Josh Hawley, people are just saying, "You probably don't want to pour money into a book that will likely be rejected because the author is not well liked or respected. He isn't being boycotted because he is Black or Gay, or a Woman, or some other essential part of his being. He is being boycotted because he has a pattern of acting like a jerk and of promoting abhorrent ideas.

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Response to Caliman73 (Reply #6)

Wed Mar 3, 2021, 04:53 PM

9. We've established a jury system for those charged with crimes, and the same rules apply to everybody

There are 12 votes and they need to collaborate face-to-face and be accountable and unanimous.

With social media, it's far less structured and far less fair. The only one with skin in the game is the accused. Yet, the penalties can be just as severe. These don't even need a simple majority.

I don't claim to have the answers. I do know that we would first need to agree that there is even a problem.

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Response to Shermann (Reply #9)

Wed Mar 3, 2021, 07:06 PM

12. By your standard, the discontinuation of the Pet Rock and Atari's Pong are...

victims of cancel culture.

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Response to Shermann (Reply #9)

Wed Mar 3, 2021, 07:34 PM

13. Being shunned or mocked on social media is not the same as going to prison.

If some celebrity irritates me I don't have to pay any attention to them. I don't have to watch their movies, I don't have to listen to them, I don't have to buy any of their crap. I don't have to give them any access to my platforms. I can delete them entirely from my universe.

Heck, if I find some member of DU especially irritating I can put them on my ignore list, and they can put me on theirs.

I have "Trump" on my trash by keyword list here.

I don't believe in "tolerance."

My action list goes like this:

Celebration, Acceptance, Indifference, Forgiveness, and War.

There is no tolerance.

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Response to Shermann (Reply #9)

Wed Mar 3, 2021, 07:54 PM

14. The jury system is not the only system. It has never been as such.

The American legal system is certainly the system we use when suspected crimes have been committed. We also have the Civil courts and other divisions.

We have also always had situations where social and economic means were used to met out justice. The Bus Boycotts in Alabama did not involve the courts, but went on for months to show the economic power of the Black community in response to unfair treatment. We boycott goods and services to show how we feel all the time when a company is perceived to be supporting something we don't like.

The thing is, there is canceling, it just isn't what right wingers say it is.

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Response to Caliman73 (Reply #14)

Wed Mar 3, 2021, 08:45 PM

16. As has been stated many times, the right wingers co-opted the term. They didn't invent it.

So what controls should be in place over the Power to Cancel? Should there be ANY controls?

Cancel culture isn't just taking the shine off of celebrities and companies nowadays. Anybody on social media can be a target.

The term "cancel culture" is just a check on that power when used in good faith. Even then, it is a weak control on a strong power. Yes it is used in bad faith by the right.

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Response to Arkansas Granny (Original post)

Thu Mar 4, 2021, 12:03 PM

18. It's a dog whistle for racists.

They want to be the most racist, sexist people they can without consequences and say the most horrible shit imaginable. But if we question them or call out what they are saying, they scream "cancel culture!".

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Response to Initech (Reply #18)

Thu Mar 4, 2021, 05:07 PM

21. This is essentially a circular argument

Your position appears to be that cancel culture is a merely a label used by the right to mischaracterize criticisms of their bad behaviors.

But what about when the term is used as a valid criticism?

If the valid and invalid uses are conflated together as "dog whistles", it's another mischaracterized label.

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Response to Shermann (Reply #21)

Thu Mar 4, 2021, 06:45 PM

22. I totally agree it's a circular firing squad.

But I say it's racist because the people who are against cancel culture are racist and sexist and it's basically they want to be jerks and not have anyone call them out for being jerks.

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