It's time to put the squeeze on Joe Manchin. Here's how.

[wellst0nev0ter]

Joe Manchin needs to understand that he only has one team he can play on, and that team is the Democrats.

He voted twice to convict 45, the trumpanzee party isn't going to accept him if he decides to switch parties. And he only won his seat by three points, so he needs all the Democratic help he can get, if he wants to keep his Senate seat, that is.

If he's going to keep acting like an asshole obstructionist, then Democrats need to shun him and punish him until he figures out he needs to play ball. He likes that gavel for the Energy Committee? That's too bad, because it's now going to Mazie Hirono.

No more pork barrel funding for his state, no more Democratic support for his campaign. He can fight for re-election on his own.

It's time to call his bluff, I'm sick of messing around with this obstructionist. That didn't work out for Joe Lieberman and it won't work for Manchin. Biden and the rest of the Democratic leaders need to step up and put the squeeze on this man.

[JohnSJ]

1. Would that push him to change parties, and we lose the majority?

[wellst0nev0ter]

2. Didn't you read my post?

He can't change parties, he voted against 45, so he's radioactive to the trumpanzees. He has nowhere to go.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

3. EXACTLY right. n/t

[Aristus]

4. I think they'd hold their nose and accept him,

if it meant depriving the Democrats of our majority.

[wellst0nev0ter]

5. trumpanzees are tribal little rats

They'll go for the trumpanziest candidate in the primary, and it ain't gonna be Manchin.

[Fiendish Thingy]

19. He would still lose his Primary in 2024 to a Trump-approved candidate

Manchin must be forced to choose between killing the filibuster or killing his career.

[lagomorph777]

24. +1

[bottomofthehill]

8. Not only can he change parties

The Republicans will accept him with open arms and give him anything he wants. Don’t fool yourself, with the majority in the balance they could give a shit less how he voted on impeachment they need the Majority Back.

[wellst0nev0ter]

12. But he's not going to keep his seat

he basically dooms any chance for re-election if he switches parties.

[bottomofthehill]

15. He has it for 4 more years and if he switched, I would not bet against him holding it

If and that’s a big if he runs for election again.

[wellst0nev0ter]

16. If he switches, he loses any influence he thought he had

Senate goops will keep him at arms length, and he'll spend the next years as a worthless backbencher who will lose the next trumpanzee primary.

[Bettie]

31. Plus, they never, ever break ranks

so, he's got no power at all.

Offer him a few earmarks, since they are back, to soothe his wounded ego.

[wellst0nev0ter]

43. Yep, show him there is much more to be had in playing ball with the Dems

than in playing footsies with the goops.

[JohnSJ]

13. Yes, I read your post, and your assumption that he is "radioactive to the trumpers" doesn't hold

They would love for manchin to switch parties, and I have no doubt they would give him whatever committee he wanted to be on

This is what you are dealing with manchin:

https://marshallparthenon.com/24935/news/manchin-says-he-may-vote-trump-despite-voting-to-impeach-him/

The way to deal with manchin is elect more Democratic Senators in 2022, and in the meantime try to change the Senate filibuster rules

This is the guy who said if Sanders was the nominee he would vote for trump in 2020

[wellst0nev0ter]

20. Doesn't matter, he voted twice to convict trump

actions over words, and all that.

[JohnSJ]

23. From my perspective it isn't worth taking the chance. Short term I would like to see Schumer

try and change the filibuster rules, such as, the filibuster doesn't apply to bills that deal with voting rights and other things along with reducing the 2/3 rule, and requiring anyone who wants to filibuster must stand up through the whole process

Also, it isn't just manchin. There are a few other Democrats who do not want to get rid of the filibuster, so even if marginalizing manchin would work, we would have to contend with more than him

[wellst0nev0ter]

44. We make Manchin an example to the other wayward Dems

The Democratic leadership must show that they are willing to play hardball, or else they'll be constantly rolled over, like they were during the Obama era.

[Trueblue1968]

29. Washington DC and Puerto Rico should become states !!!! NOW!!!

[JohnSJ]

32. I agree, especially with Washington DC, and Puerto Rico if they want, but I am not sure if

that requires a simple majority or 2/3

[Mike 03]

25. Also, if we don't accomplish some big things, the Republicans

nationally or at the state level will simply make it more difficult for the Joe Manchins and Kyrsten Sinemas of this country to be re-elected.

In order to accomplish those "big things" we need to get rid of the filibuster.

We do need to step on the gas. We've been careful and cautious in the past; it's time to put all our chips on the table. There is nothing to gain by not being aggressive here.

[msfiddlestix]

39. I'm sorry, Mitch WOULD MOST DEFINITELY accept his return to the party.

Are you kidding me? Mitch has no fucks to give about what the base thinks, if Mitch gets the majority with Manchen's defection.
Absolutely nothing else matters to Mitch. Nothing. Raw Power is all that matters to Mitch. Period.

That's the hard cold reality of the situation. Manchen has enormous power of us right now. And there is fuck all we can do about it unless and until we get a solid majority in 2022 sans his seat. Then we can put him in his place if he hasn't jumped ship by then.

[wellst0nev0ter]

53. Manchin is finished if he switches

He'll piss off the Democrats in his state that he'll lose the next election, and the trumpanzees will have nothing to do with him.

Sure, Manchin (R-WV) could threaten to switch back to being a Democrat if the goops are mean to him, but they won't care. They've already proven they wield enough power as the "minority" party. Manchin will just be a clown twisting in the wind until he loses in 2024.

[msfiddlestix]

58. He'll be like Lieberman

Clearly, he doesn't give rat's ass about his voters or he wouldn't be pissing on his own voters with his so called objections he makes with this very bill which is VERY POPULAR particularly in poor communities and states such as HIS state West Virginia.

Whatever his game is about seems to be is about feeling a little too goddamn arrogant due to the fact that his threats to defect to the Republicans, who again would have him simply for the count. he's holding over the heads of the Dems like the sword of Damocles.

And obviously it's working.

Manchin is arrogant but caring about his voters isn't anything he cares about, he just wants his big donors to work it all out for him.

It's like he took tips from Lieberman. Another arrogant prick.

Just the way I see it. and I hate it.

[wellst0nev0ter]

59. And look at Lieberman now

A total non-entity, nobody listens to him or even remembers him. If Manchin is as arrogant and vainglorious as you say he is, do you think that's a future he wants?

[msfiddlestix]

60. I can't read what kind of future he's hoping for, who or what he cares about

Lieberman caused us considerable pain for years and years before he finally faded away.

I'm just talking about our present and near future. I'm hoping against hope that we pick up Senators from PA, WI, maybe Ohio 2022 with any luck. Then we can lose Manchin and not give a shit about him in 2024.

Until we gain more Senators, we're at his mercy apparently.

[wellst0nev0ter]

63. We had a chance to put Manchin to pasture last year

Except we fielded terrible candidates in completely winnable races, and we had a muddled, unorganized agenda.

We won the two Georgia races because we dropped the fucking pretenses and promised people money.

If we allow Manchin to stall the Democratic agenda here, we WILL be wiped out in 2022.

[msfiddlestix]

64. As we were in this discussion, I had Lawrence O'donnell on background

after I posted my last post, Norm Ornstein had a stunning and brilliant solution to this problem we're talking about.

It's impossible for me to go into details. Do you have a way to watch tonight's Last Word? Norm's solution while not perfect, would change everything. Try and connect to the show and have a listen.

Gives me hope.

[wellst0nev0ter]

65. okay will watch

[wellst0nev0ter]

66. Just watched the repeat

And Ornstein was basically saying what I have been saying: if you want to keep the filibuster, make it painful.

You need to engage in nonstop speeches with no bathroom breaks, so bring an extra pair of Depends. And anyone who supports that farce has to be in the chamber.

[msfiddlestix]

67. What is baffling is why Schumer didn't ensure rule change to this end.

I'd really to understand how that negotiating process ended up with what should have been expected. Schumer was willing to go with this result.

[JI7]

48. Romney voted to convict Trump also and he is still a Republican

[wellst0nev0ter]

55. Utah is a safe seat for Romney. WV is not safe

learn the difference.

[JI7]

56. Other than Manchin it is a safe Republican seat

[wellst0nev0ter]

57. That's the point, it's not safe for Manchin

If Manchin wants to keep playing Senator, he can't afford to lose his seat.

If he switches parties, the trumpanzees will put up a fellow trumpmonkey primary challenger who didn't vote twice to convict 45. And Manchin can't win back the Democratic votes he lost.

[aikoaiko]

61. They would welcome him with open arms and kisses to get the majority away from us.

[wellst0nev0ter]

62. It's either that or have Manchin grind the Senate to the halt

and hand the goops the majority anyway. We need to get Manchin on board now.

[JustAnotherGen]

6. I don't think he's running again

So he just doing this for ego perhaps.

[wellst0nev0ter]

10. If he's not running again

Then you make the remaining years in the senate as miserable as you can. Make him a pariah.

[bottomofthehill]

17. If he changes parties into the majority

He will be a hero to the Right the minority ( Dems if he changes) will hate him but have no way to punish him. Unfortunately we did not pick up NC or ME and he holds the cards.

[wellst0nev0ter]

18. Then he loses any influence he had

Poof, out the window. And he's doomed himself to losing his seat since trumpanzees won't elect a traitor.

[bottomofthehill]

22. They will buy him and give him whatever it takes to keep him.

Until someone either dies or changes parties. This happened with Jim Jeffords from Vermont during the Bush Administration he went from Republican Goat to Democratic hero to useless after the Carnahan Special Election

[andym]

7. The Republican caucus would gladly accept him

Some Trumpers in WV might not, but he would probably have enough Democratic and Republican at home support to get re-elected.He could always use the excuse that he was loyal to his old party and would now be loyal to new new party.

[wellst0nev0ter]

11. No goop would elect someone who voted to convict 45

And Manchin's only where he is because of Democrats.

[JohnSJ]

14. To gain the majority, then would do it in a drop of a dime

[torius]

26. Fox News/OAN etc

would say that Manchin did not vote to impeach Trump, they would warp people's minds so much their ears would bend. Trumpers believe anything their media says.

[lagomorph777]

9. That's the stick, and include a carrot, too. Massive wind farm and energy storage projects.

WV is perfect for that stuff, with lots of windy flattened hilltops left by the coal miners. Also, there is a big energy market in the surrounding states. Great way to employ former coal miners.

[Unwind Your Mind]

28. This exactly nt

[Duppers]

34. YES! +1000

[Fiendish Thingy]

21. Turn up the heat- keep his feet to the fire!

Schumer must force Manchin to choose between killing the filibuster and killing his career.

[brooklynite]

37. Explain how Manchin will "kill his career"...

[Fiendish Thingy]

41. Progressive groups are already mobilizing his constituents and raising funds

Manchin only won re-election in 2018 by 3%/19,000 votes - it would be quite easy for a progressive group to peel off that many votes. If he was stupid enough to switch parties, he would lose his primary to a Trump-approved extremist. If he runs for governor, both the above strategies apply.

He must be forced to choose between killing the filibuster and killing his career.

[brooklynite]

46. Are Progressive groups idiotic enough to try to Primary Manchin from the left?

FWIW, its not clear if he plans to run for re-election in 2022.

[wellst0nev0ter]

52. Enough will be idiodic enough to sit out the 2024 election

He needs Democrats to win his senate seat, which he won by only 3 points. He can't piss us off all the time and expect to get away with it.

[Mike 03]

27. I understand people who say, "We need to protect this senate seat" but my view

has changed dramatically over the last two months. Instead of protecting this one chess piece (Manchin, or Sinema) we really are going to lose most of our chess pieces if we don't really take command here. We won't get a second chance.

Maybe there's an analogy in war. Win the battle and lose the war?

Seriously, take what Adam Schiff said last night to heart. We'll be the next Hungary if we don't play very hard now.

[NCjack]

33. It may become necessary to deep-freeze the Senate until after the 2022 election.

Explain to the voters that we are doing what the Republicans have done to us since Pres. Obama was elected in 2008.

A choice must be made. Give one party a working majority.

[Blue Owl]

30. K&R

[jobendorfer]

35. I cut Joe Manchin a fair bit of slack

He's a Democrat in an extremely conservative state. I get that.

At this point, however, the Republicans are engaged in an all-out assault, state by state, to make it more difficult to vote. They are engaged in full-bore gerrymandering and voter suppression. At this time, nothing else matters beyond passing HR1, which makes it much more difficult for the Republicans to play their games. If Joe wants to keep on as the Democratic Senator from West Virginia, he has to get behind HR1, because that's what will enable Democrats to turn out in his state and vote for him.

If Joe wants HR1 to pass -- and he's committing career suicide if he doesn't -- then he has to wrap his head around some changes to the filibuster rule, because that is the only way HR1 is going to get through the Senate. Full. Stop.

If the Democrats fail to get HR1 onto Joe Biden's desk, they may as well hand the keys to Capitol to the Republicans and go home. It's all over, for the United States. My $.02.

J.

[lagomorph777]

40. +1

[wellst0nev0ter]

45. We gave him enough of a leash

What with the Kavanaugh vote, his hints that he'd vote for Trump, and him sabotaging the Tanden nomination.

It's time to bring him to heel.

[brooklynite]

36. Let us know what Schumer thinks of your idea...

[Wanderlust988]

38. And all Joe Manchin has to do is just threaten to resign

That'll kill your little fantasy plan of threatening him.

[Fiendish Thingy]

42. Make Manchin put up or shut up

If he threatens to resign, then it’s clear he doesn’t give a damn about the country or public service- to hell with him if that’s the case. He should be blocked from running for the Dem nomination for governor as well.

The stakes are to high to pamper Manchin’s fee-fee’s.

[Wanderlust988]

47. Well if he puts up and resigns, we're effectively done for the next 2 years

No judges, no bills...NOTHING. That's not a risk worth taking. Let's use some common sense around here.

[Fiendish Thingy]

49. And if he digs in and refuses to budge on the filibuster, we're done for the next 10+ years

That’s a fact.

So, Manchin must choose: kill the filibuster, or kill your career.

With the vaccines rolling out, I predict there will be anti-filibuster marches in DC, WV and AZ by Labor Day, if not sooner.

It’s going to be a long hot summer for Joe Manchin...people aren’t going accept his “Never!”, shrug and walk away...

[Wanderlust988]

50. No that's not a fact

That's hyberbole. We need Manchin for the Supreme Court. If Breyer retires, we need to fill it. McConnell would block any vote, period. We need Schumer to be majority leader. If nothing else legislative gets done, we can STILL get judges confirmed.

[Fiendish Thingy]

54. Manchin can still hold judicial nominees hostage

If you think my position is hyperbole, then I guess Adam Schiff is full of hyperbole, as are these two former Obama advisors, all of whom share my perspective:

[Nixie]

51. It seems like Manchin is using Sanders as an example of how to wield

his niche-y power.