Democrats need to Franken Manchin

[wellst0nev0ter]

No, I don't mean Democrats need to railroad Manchin out of the Senate. But I noticed that Democrats were VERY united in mounting a full-court press on Franken to "take one for the team."

That united front needs to return for Manchin. Democrats need to remind him that for him to have a political future beyond his 2024 re-election, he needs to play for the Dems. If he switches to GQP, then he's finished since no trumpanzee will vote for anyone who convicted 45 twice.

Manchin is literally out of control, and he is sabotaging Democrats' prospects in the next election with his games. He needs to be brought to heel.

[Maru Kitteh]

1. Yeah. We really need to give the senate to Moscow Mitch again.

[USAFRetired_Liberal]

2. Manchin is surely handing it to him

[LenaBaby61]

5. Something's up with Moscow ...

I've felt that for a LONG time now.

Either he's scared of possible charges against him or his wife Moscow Chow, who won't take one for tRump. I can see her fleeing back to China if things continue ratcheting up as they are now. Also, Moscow Mitch isn't well physically. Look at him. You see he's trying to pass legislation to get around a Dem Kentucky governor appointing his predecessor WHEN he leaves. He's not lasting 6 more years. I'd go to Vegas and bet on it and I'm no a betting person.

[leftieNanner]

8. I've been thinking the same thing

Remember last year when his hands and face were all bruised?

I think he's very ill. Ran for reelection just to hold the seat for the R Team. Now he and the Kentucky legislature are trying an end run to keep the seat in his party.

Very fishy.

[LenaBaby61]

44. Remember last year when his hands and face were all bruised?

Yes LeftieNanner ....

Remember this fall?

Look at how Moscow Chow looks down at him so dismissively (He is a piece of shit). She appears as if she doesn't give not one DAMN that her husband turtle fell (And she doesn't) 👇🏻

Link to tweet

[NurseJackie]

22. No he's not.

[LenaBaby61]

3. Like I said ...

That asshole is DRUNK with power. So much for not having him there instead of a GQP'er.

Hell, he IS a GQP'er who doesn't even represent his OWN constituents. Also, if he dooms the civil rights bill, or tries to sink an African-American woman Biden promised to put onto the High Court because HE thinks she's "TOO LIBERAL" (I wouldn't put it past him), Houston, there's gon' be a problem with the Dem party.

Sinema's also got her constituents hocked off at her in Az. My friend who lives there told me that there are bill boards there telling her she better stop what SHE's doing (My friend told me she used to belong to the Green party. Lord). Back to old Drunk With Power, he knows people are suffering and he's stalling the Stimulus bill passage (Look at his own drugged-out, broken, coal less jobs state of WV. Doesn't he care about them? HELL NO), I don't know what Biden can 'offer,' him, but what if Biden offers that asshole 'something' for his state, and he turns THAT down?

What does he want, someone kissing his natural, naked ass 24/7, and a crown put on top of his head?

[Dave says]

59. 80%

My understanding is he votes with the democratic caucus 80% of the time. I doubt there’s a Republican that votes even 2% of the time with us. I’d prefer we keep Manchin just where he is.

[Claire Oh Nette]

4. Manchin's donors

THe WV businesses and industries he really represents are almost wholly owned by out-of-state interests.

Direct dicussion with the Mountaineers themselves, via Biden or Harris and through Gov Justice to pressure Manchin may be the way to go.

Tons of family there.

They need higher wages.
They need a WPA style jobs program for new energy.
They need college loan forgiveness programs.
They need health care, mental health care and addiction treatment.

Manchin has no future in the GOP. Unless he is set to "spend time with his family" he better play for our team.

Of course the filibuster needs to go. Get the Rescue Plan and the new voting rights act passed, then deal with the filibuster.

[OnDoutside]

6. Your post makes no sense, while I do understand your frustration.

The whole point is that he is being a belligerent asshole because he can get away with it. 49 Dem Senators rounding on him won't get them anywhere, he knows that he is calling the shots. The only question is about what his demand list is, that's what this is down to.

[wellst0nev0ter]

7. Peer pressure works

Manchin is only doing what he does because he's not getting any negative pressure from the Dems. If the Dems start banding together and threaten to unload on him if he keeps up his antics, he will get the message.

[OnDoutside]

9. What can they do to him ?

[wellst0nev0ter]

10. Give him offer he can't refuse

Play ball, and his state will get all the porkbarrel he wants.

Refuse to play ball, then he loses his committee chairmanship or any Democratic support in his re-election bid. And like the Democrats did the Franken, the entire caucus freezes him out, refuses to engage with him and badmouths him by name every time they speak.

What is he going to do? Switch to the GQP? That would be political suicide for him, and he will end up as irrelevant as Lieberman.

[OnDoutside]

11. Democratic leadership won't do that. 2022 is hard enough as it is.

But as I posted elsewhere tonight, surely they have posed the question to him, as to what his demands are ? If not, them do it. Time is moving on. My hope is that he's laying down a marker for a big slice of the Infrastructure Bill.

Don't forget Jim Justice already switched parties, so it's eas far fetched as you think.

[wellst0nev0ter]

12. If you allow him to be an obstructionist

2022 will look like 2012.

[OnDoutside]

15. That's if this is ideological, which I don't believe it is. Find out what

his price is.

[wellst0nev0ter]

17. If he switches to the goops

He gets nothing for his district, AND he'll lose in 2024. Is that really the price he's willing to pay?

[OnDoutside]

19. Other people have suggested that but he hasn't. There's only benefit

to him if he gets what he wants, so Dems need to find out the price. If he switches, no one gets anything for the next 20 months, because Biden & the Dems will block anything McConnell tries and vice versa. Manchin only wins if he gets a fantastic deal out of Biden.

[Demsrule86]

13. without Manchin, we don't have a majority...seriously do you like Mitch as majority leader.

There were seven other Senators that votes against the minimum wage bill. Manchin is 72 he may not run again...and you force him to do anything so just stop.

[wellst0nev0ter]

14. Manchin has too much of an ego to retire

and if he switches to goop, he has no political future.

It's literally that simple. The only exit ramp for him is to play ball with the Democrats.

[doc03]

20. He was talking of running for Governor of WV again a year or two ago. He said he was

fed up with the Senate because they can't do anything because of the toxic partisanship in DC. Then Democrats
get control of the Senate and he stops them from getting anything done.

[FBaggins]

27. That's nonsense

If he switched parties he could keep his seat until he dropped.

[wellst0nev0ter]

28. The question is does he want to be re-elected

Does he really want to fade into irrelevance like that other Joe, Lieberman?

[FBaggins]

30. His reelection changes aren't endangered

And would only improve if he switched parties.

There's essentially zero chance of replacing him with someone to his left. Even the relatively-moderate Biden was unable to take even 30% of the WV vote.

Joe Lieberman didn't represent WV. Far more Democrats in CT.

[wellst0nev0ter]

32. What are you talking about?

Manchin voted to convict 45 twice, the trumpanzees will destroy him in the goop primary.

Of course, Democrats won't want him back.

His political career is over if he switches.

[radius777]

36. +1. He'd never win a GOP primary

and he knows that. And his right leaning positions on economics are not where the voters of WV are.

WV is 'red' but mainly due to social issues like guns, abortion and immigration - but was historically an FDR Dem state.

It's why all these takes on 'Manchin needs to be how he is to survive in WV' are flawed. Manchin would not suffer one bit by voting for this bill in it's original (better) form - as people need money. This is about big donors and big money interests in his state - not what the people want.

[wellst0nev0ter]

37. Exactly

Manchin can be bought, we just need to figure out his price.

[FBaggins]

52. Reality. You should visit sometime

You’re ready to straight-up bribe the guy and you don’t think that McConnell would promise not to primary him if he switches? He can have his pick of chairmanships.

Not even sure that he wants to run again (at least for senate) almost four years from now. So threatening his political career has no teeth at all.

He holds all the cards. We can either accept him voting with us 90% of the time and upsetting us a few times per year... or we can let McConnell take the reigns of power in the Senate and keep most things from even getting a vote.

[wellst0nev0ter]

57. It's either let Manchin be an obstructionist and lose in 2022

Or we squeeze him now and salvage our political goodwill. This is worth the risk.

[FBaggins]

62. There's zero logic behind that theory

It’s based on the notion that we’ll lose control in 2022 unless we deliver on certain promises and/or implement structural changes that will keep republicans from stealing elections - the people will vote us out.

That ignores the fact we can accomplish neither thing with McConnell running the senate.

FAR better to accept that there are something that we can’t get with a 50/50 senate... then get nothing at all with a 49/51 senate.

[Yeehah]

16. Yeah, let's get a republican in there

Great idea, Professor Einstein.

Manchin voted for the ACA and voted to convict Trump. Good luck with a republican senator, genius.

[wellst0nev0ter]

18. Keep up the obstruction, and you WILL get a republican

2022 and 2024 will look like 2010 and 2012.

Keep repeating the same mistakes over again, see what happens.

[Yeehah]

26. That's just about all we have here right now, except for Manchin

It is the Democratic party's good fortune that Joe Manchin is very popular, personally, in West Virginia. If Manchin resigned, do you think a Democrat would be elected? Please proceed, tell me your wisdom of West Virginia politics, professor.

[wellst0nev0ter]

29. No, it's Joe Manchin's fortunes that there are Democrats in WV

Or else he wouldn't be elected in the first place. He needs to know which side his bread is buttered on, and you of all people need to remind him.

[Yeehah]

50. Manchin is the best that Democrats will do in West Virginia

You're going to have to deal with that in your own special way.

Things may change in the future but that's how it is right now.

[MichMan]

21. Back in the day, the FBI would be tasked with digging up dirt on him or his family from his past

for blackmail purposes.

[radius777]

40. I wouldn't use the FBI as that is illegal, but I do believe

in using political operatives to dig up dirt, old school (ie, James Carville style) hardball politics.

We've gotten too weak - and Schumer and Durbin in particular are weak leaders in the Senate compared to Pelosi and the House leadership that keeps their members in line.

[FlyingPiggy]

23. agreed. Manchin needs a reality check.

[Demsrule86]

54. I think some here need a reality check. We have a 50 50 senate and eight Democrats voted the same

as Machin. Moderate gave us our majority...we get what we can. We get nothing without such Democrats.

[FlyingPiggy]

55. I just read today that it wasn't just Manchin and Sinema. Quite disappointing.

I am surprised so many didn’t vote for it. Thing is, Mark Kelly is fairly moderate as well and voted for it. So, I am baffled as to why Sinema feels she couldn’t. I think she made a big mistake.

[FBaggins]

66. Don't misunderstand the vote

This wasn’t a measure of how many Democrats supported the $15 minimum wage.

It was a measure of how many were willing to “go nuclear” to get to a point where 50 senators could push it through... when there wasn’t much reason to think that they had 50 in the first place.

[NurseJackie]

24. A smarter decision would be to accept reality. Do what's doable. And...

... work like hell to make Manchin irrelevant by REPLACING A HALF-DOZEN REPUBLICANS WITH DEMOCRATS.

We barely have a majority and Manchin is who he is. It sucks, but rather than fixate on what we can't do, why not focus on what we can do. Why not be willing to find common ground and compromise for the sake of SOME progress... even if it's not the "whole loaf" that we all want.

[wellst0nev0ter]

31. We were fed the same song and dance last year

"Oh we'll pick up Senate seats and pass legislation!"

Except we fielded candidates who decided they don't know how to get elected during a trump pandemic.

We only picked up Georgia senate seats because we dispensed with the DC consultant pretenses and promised that $2,000 checks will go out the door. Now those same people are mucking it up for us again.

The time to squeeze the Manchins is now. We don't get a do-over next year.

[NurseJackie]

60. Nonsense.

We were fed the same song and dance last year

Nonsense.

"Oh we'll pick up Senate seats and pass legislation!"

We're in a better position than before, but we still need to deal with reality. Fact of the matter is that without our centrist Democrats, we'd be in the minority and even WORSE off.

Deal with it. Focus on what's possible rather than what we KNOW FOR A FACT (in advance) will be impossible. All this handwringing and anger won't change a thing. It's a waste of time.

Except we fielded candidates who decided they don't know how to get elected during a trump pandemic.

We only picked up Georgia senate seats because we dispensed with the DC consultant pretenses and promised that $2,000 checks will go out the door. Now those same people are mucking it up for us again.

Nobody promised that.

The time to squeeze the Manchins is now. We don't get a do-over next year.

Aw.

Work harder to get more Republican Senators OUT OF OFFICE! Replace them with Democrats. Instead of attacking Democrats... I'd recommend attacking and kneecapping Republicans instead. Make Manchin irrelevant.

This obsession with "squeezing" him or punishing him is ridiculous. Move on and accept reality. We barely have a 50/50 split. There are many things we can do with that if we focus on THAT instead of focusing on being angry.... instead of smearing Democrats... instead of shitting all over our party and party leadership. That's the mature thing to do, so that's what I'm doing.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

67. Totally agree !

[wellst0nev0ter]

68. Not that you care, but here's the official campaign video of Biden promising "$2,000 checks"

Link to tweet

?s=20

We won Georgia because we promised people money in their pockets. Accept the facts.

If we don't get the moderates in line now, goops are going to win next year, just like they did in 2010 and 2012.

You elect dems by passing legislation, not by obstruction.

[NurseJackie]

69. You're right, I don't care. Move on.

That's a deliberate misinterpretation and splitting of hairs. Reasonable people know that $2000 was the total goal, and that's what was done. Move on.

We won Georgia because we promised people money in their pockets. Accept the facts.

LOL!

You elect dems by passing legislation, not by obstruction.

Then people should stop trying to smear the party, the leadership, and stop trying to kneecap Democrats.

Time to get to work. Move on to the next project and get as much done as we can, eh?

You lost this one. Accept it and move on.

Count your blessings.

[wellst0nev0ter]

70. Time to get to work? Where were we last year?

This kick the can strategy will take us nowhere.

[NurseJackie]

71. Work harder. Gripe less.

Count your blessings.

[wellst0nev0ter]

72. Count my blessings?

Do you run Oliver Twist's workhouse?

[NurseJackie]

73. It's done. It's over. Move on. Count your blessings...

... don't dwell on the past. Accept the reality of where we are and work to do what's actually possible.

Do you run Oliver Twist's workhouse?

it's not about me. My advice is sound and reasonable, however.

Accentuate the positive. Don't worry, be happy!

[wellst0nev0ter]

74. Whipping Democratic votes is working with what we have

And if we don't get the moderates in line, there IS no future

[NurseJackie]

75. Kneecapping in revenge is not "whipping votes".

Move on. Focus on what's possible. Be realistic.

Count your blessings.

[BannonsLiver]

58. "I want an Oompa Loompa and I want it now, daddy!!111"

[NurseJackie]

61. LOL! Temper tantrums never work out well...

... whether in the movies or in politics.

[a kennedy]

25. and I thought ROJO was going to be a prick.....I really didn't think it would be Manchin.....

[Blaukraut]

33. At this point, our chances for '22 would be better if we were in the minority

That way, the Dems could run on republican obstructionism and fire up our side, as opposed to Biden's entire agenda being held hostage by Manchin and Sinema. (I even doubt that he would vote for a possible SC pick without playing games for months.). All voters will remember is that Democrats had the majority and STILL couldn't deliver.

[wellst0nev0ter]

39. If we want to risk being in the minority

Then at least try squeezing Manchin and the rest of the rebel Dems along the way.

[Blaukraut]

41. Didn't you hear? Manchin is done talking to Biden.

He's now only negotiating with republicans. I'm sorry, he's a piece of shit for doing this.

[wellst0nev0ter]

42. Imagine if Bernie did this

we'd definitely get some pushback from the Dem leadership.

[Tommymac]

53. No, I didn't hear. Link Please.

Thanks

[Blaukraut]

56. According to Wicker. Cloakroom buzz.

Link to tweet

?s=20

[Tommymac]

76. Thanks! nt

[JI7]

35. Manchin doesn't care what people in other states do or say. In fact he actually

enjoys the attention and going against it.

It's the people of West Virginia that would make a difference .

[radius777]

38. Schumer is no Pelosi - he's a weak leader in comparison.

Pelosi also has a razor thin majority with many moderates in her caucus - yet holds them together to vote for important things that Biden wants and that the success of his admin is riding on.

[wellst0nev0ter]

43. He was pretty strong when he strong-armed Franken out of office

Where is Chuckie's mojo now?

[NurseJackie]

64. The Senate has a 50/50 "majority". Pelosi has an easier job.

It really serves no good purpose for anyone to shit on Schumer by calling him "weak" (or "weak in comparison''). This kind of smearing and kneecapping of our party's leadership only serves to divide us... to turn voter support away from us... and to make the GOP stronger.

Why do that? People need to get control of their emotions and focus it toward doing what's POSSIBLE with our 50/50 "majority". It's time to be realistic. NOBODY should be surprised by where we are today. NOBODY should be acting as though we have some sort of super-majority that allows us to do anything we want.

I live in the real world, not the fantasy world. Let's focus on what we CAN do rather than wishing for the impossible.

Count your blessings.

[Blue_true]

45. Yeah. Why don't we blow our toes off one at a time?

If Manchin is not approaching women in inappropriate ways, there is no reason to bother him.

If we are going to get a 60 vote majority, we will have to have Democrats from red states as part of that majority, there is simply no other way to get there.

[wellst0nev0ter]

46. Why are you stuck on the goddamn filibuster

Get rid of it already. No sane country in the world needs supermajorities to pass laws.

[Blue_true]

47. There are ways to keep the filibuster, while making it work as intended.

Maybe our Senators need to pursue those before getting rid of it.

Unless I see people saying that they plan to vote Democrat period, I want to keep the filibuster around, because if people sit on their asses and don’t vote because they didn’t get one issue that was on their hot button list, Mitch McConnell will get back the majority and then proceed to ream our ass, because we got rid of the filibuster, so we no longer have even a marginal check on him.

Why don’t you focus on how we get and hold majorities instead of being hit to trot for something that could come back to burn our asses. It least with solid majorities held over time we can enact progressive policy, and see it take root, instead of watching republicans reverse it.

[harumph]

48. Even if he's only better than a Republican by some degree

that's better than to risk a Republican in his seat. Him voting for 30-40% of Dem sponsored
bills is better than 0%.

[Elessar Zappa]

63. He actually votes with us 60% of the time, I believe.

So way better than any Republican.

[brooklynite]

49. What justification do you have in suggesting he might switch Parties?

He’s been a lifelong Democrat. He supported Schumer as Maj Leader. He voted to bring the Covid bill up for a vote. He voted to convict Trump twice.

Thank goodness Party policy isn’t determined by what the blogosphere thinks.

[we can do it]

51. No they don't.

[Peacetrain]

65. Well once again .. you are wrong... getting rid of centerists

especially those who are in blood red states does nothing to promote our programs..by the way.. Manchin does what he needs to do to represents the reddest of the red.. I would take him any day with a doughnut and a cup of coffee over some republican stooge.. hey he just voted for our Covid bill through..