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TheFarseer

(9,326 posts)
Fri Mar 5, 2021, 09:50 PM Mar 2021

Why not raise minimum wage to $10?

More than doubling it seems a bit crazy to some and would throw off the whole wage base. But if we raise it to $9 or $10, it would be hard to argue against it. Now I know 10 is a smaller number than 15, but 15 doesn’t look like it happening.

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Why not raise minimum wage to $10? (Original Post) TheFarseer Mar 2021 OP
nobody had proposed going to 15 in one shot. drray23 Mar 2021 #1
That is not the public perception. Most everyone I talk to think we want $15 doc03 Mar 2021 #31
No. Because if its work worth paying someone to do full time, its worth paying a living wage. marble falls Mar 2021 #2
I think we'll have to end up settling Elessar Zappa Mar 2021 #3
It will be nothing... regnaD kciN Mar 2021 #10
So there's no hope? Elessar Zappa Mar 2021 #13
It is reality. It is dead this year. Demsrule86 Mar 2021 #24
I meant it Elessar Zappa Mar 2021 #26
If it's dead this year wellst0nev0ter Mar 2021 #29
Do you think we can ram it into a 'must pass' bill like the Defence Appropriation Bill? Celerity Mar 2021 #33
Anything is possible. I don't like not being able to do more...so hope so. Demsrule86 Mar 2021 #43
Here is the history of minimum wage in this country JDC Mar 2021 #4
Rethugs who are saying they worked for minimum and it payed their way thru uni are so full of shit Celerity Mar 2021 #30
Here's the deal, let Bernie lead Johnny2X2X Mar 2021 #5
Take what? The GOP won't give us squat and it is too late to put it in this bill. Demsrule86 Mar 2021 #21
Several GOP senators are already at $10 Johnny2X2X Mar 2021 #27
I don't think you will get any reps in the end...same bait and switch they used with the ACA. Demsrule86 Mar 2021 #46
Raising minimum wage would then allow business to compete with Covid applegrove Mar 2021 #6
The idea is to raise people above the proverty level. twin_ghost Mar 2021 #7
I think 11-12 might be possible JI7 Mar 2021 #8
So disappointing but necessary if that is all we can get right now. applegrove Mar 2021 #9
You're asking for over a 100% increase TheFarseer Mar 2021 #12
People who have to work three jobs are asking for it. nt Nittersing Mar 2021 #15
Not "enough votes" unless McConnell approves it... regnaD kciN Mar 2021 #16
How...? regnaD kciN Mar 2021 #14
How many times in a year can you do reconcilliation? applegrove Mar 2021 #17
Twice. But it doesn't matter as it can't go into reconciliation. Demsrule86 Mar 2021 #20
Because of the Parliamentarian ruling? applegrove Mar 2021 #23
Yes, the Parliamentarian vote destroyed any chance of passing unemployment in reconciliation which Demsrule86 Mar 2021 #45
one for each fiscal year (there was no fiscal year 2021 bill so we can pass that and one for 2022) Celerity Mar 2021 #32
I think Biden has done a good job working with what is available. Thanks for the information. Demsrule86 Mar 2021 #44
If they did, they should call it Sucha NastyWoman Mar 2021 #11
Try putting it in the upcoming defense appropriation bill. Maybe put Hassler Mar 2021 #18
We don't have the votes. The parliamentarian ruled and it can't be done in reconciliation and the Demsrule86 Mar 2021 #19
Someone said they should take the minimum wage for each state and divide it by 2, to get a minimum dem4decades Mar 2021 #22
Or do like what Florida voters approved. Blue_true Mar 2021 #25
10 usd per hour in 2023 or 2024 will be LESS in purchasing power than 7.25 usd was in 2009 Celerity Mar 2021 #28
Lots of blue states are at or above $10 / hour already Klaralven Mar 2021 #34
Why don't they raise it to $15? MichMan Mar 2021 #35
Some did including Florida JI7 Mar 2021 #38
And within California many areas are 15 like Los Angeles . Plus California requires hourly minimum JI7 Mar 2021 #36
Seems like that would be the most strategic play ecstatic Mar 2021 #37
I might be wrong and it seems to me to be basic horse trading. Start well above what you want mitch96 Mar 2021 #39
Because it would make people with business plans that only work Bettie Mar 2021 #40
I always thought $15 an hour sudden wage hike was unrealistic. BusyBeingBest Mar 2021 #41
Yes, the obsession with fifteen as some sort of magical number is silly. betsuni Mar 2021 #42

drray23

(7,637 posts)
1. nobody had proposed going to 15 in one shot.
Fri Mar 5, 2021, 09:52 PM
Mar 2021

All the bills under discussion raise it over a period of several years.

regnaD kciN

(26,045 posts)
10. It will be nothing...
Fri Mar 5, 2021, 10:14 PM
Mar 2021

...because any increase, even of a penny, now has to get ten Republican senators to support it. And if you think that's going to happen, you're dreaming. (And don't give me any talk of attaching it to "must-pass" legislation; if you haven't noticed, Republicans are quite satisfied with shutting down the government altogether rather than approving anything they don't like. And, this time, people whose lives will be affected by any such shutdown will blame us for being "intransigent." )

Nope, any raise in the minimum wage is dead, dead, dead -- at least until after the 2022 midterms. Or, for that matter, any positive change that can't be accomplished by executive order alone. And, if you think we're going to increase our majorities then, I have a bridge you might be interested in.

Elessar Zappa

(14,047 posts)
26. I meant it
Fri Mar 5, 2021, 10:32 PM
Mar 2021

as in, “there’s no hope for the Dem Party in 2022”, like that poster was saying. I’m more optimistic. I think we can keep the House as long as Dems don’t sit it out.

Celerity

(43,497 posts)
33. Do you think we can ram it into a 'must pass' bill like the Defence Appropriation Bill?
Fri Mar 5, 2021, 11:18 PM
Mar 2021

If you think there is not a type of bill that we can insert it into, then this means there will not be any arise for years UNLESS we can either elect a net plus 3 Dem senators in 2022 (to neutralise Sinema, Manchin, and Feinstein) PLUS retain the House and then convince 50 of the now 53 Dems to vote to bin the filibuster.

OR (and I think this is more realistic perhaps)

modify the filibuster (not bin it altogether) and get those 3 blockers (Manchin, Sinema, and Feinstein) to sign onto modifications, and THEN pass it that way.


Options for modifying


https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2021/03/02/manchin-filibuster-never-sinema/

Instead of naming and shaming them, Democrats might consider looking at what Manchin and Sinema like about the filibuster. Sinema recently said, “Retaining the legislative filibuster is not meant to impede the things we want to get done. Rather, it’s meant to protect what the Senate was designed to be. I believe the Senate has a responsibility to put politics aside and fully consider, debate, and reach compromise on legislative issues that will affect all Americans.” Last year, Manchin said, “The minority should Instead of naming and shaming them, Democrats might consider looking at what Manchin and Sinema like about the filibuster. Sinema recently said, “Retaining the legislative filibuster is not meant to impede the things we want to get done. Rather, it’s meant to protect what the Senate was designed to be. I believe the Senate has a responsibility to put politics aside and fully consider, debate, and reach compromise on legislative issues that will affect all Americans.” Last year, Manchin said, “The minority should have input — that’s the whole purpose for the Senate. If you basically do away with the filibuster altogether for legislation, you won’t have the Senate. You’re a glorified House. And I will not do that.” If you take their views at face value, the goal is to preserve some rights for the Senate minority, with the aim of fostering compromise. The key, then, is to find ways not to eliminate the filibuster on legislation but to reform it to fit that vision. Here are some options:

Make the minority do the work.

Currently, it takes 60 senators to reach cloture — to end debate and move to a vote on final passage of a bill. The burden is on the majority, a consequence of filibuster reform in 1975, which moved the standard from two-thirds of senators present and voting to three-fifths of the entire Senate. Before that change, if the Senate went around-the-clock, filibustering senators would have to be present in force. If, for example, only 75 senators showed up for a cloture vote, 50 of them could invoke cloture and move to a final vote. After the reform, only a few senators in the minority needed to be present to a request for unanimous consent and to keep the majority from closing debate by forcing a quorum call. The around-the-clock approach riveted the public, putting a genuine spotlight on the issues. Without it, the minority’s delaying tactics go largely unnoticed, with little or no penalty for obstruction, and no requirement actually to debate the issue. One way to restore the filibuster’s original intent would be requiring at least two-fifths of the full Senate, or 40 senators, to keep debating instead requiring 60 to end debate. The burden would fall to the minority, who’d have to be prepared for several votes, potentially over several days and nights, including weekends and all-night sessions, and if only once they couldn’t muster 40 — the equivalent of cloture — debate would end, making way for a vote on final passage of the bill in question.

Go back to the “present and voting” standard.

A shift to three-fifths of the Senate “present and voting” would similarly require the minority to keep most of its members around the Senate when in session. If, for example, the issue in question were voting rights, a Senate deliberating on the floor, 24 hours a day for several days, would put a sharp spotlight on the issue, forcing Republicans to publicly justify opposition to legislation aimed at protecting the voting rights of minorities. Weekend Senate sessions would cause Republicans up for reelection in 2022 to remain in Washington instead of freeing them to go home to campaign. In a three-fifths present and voting scenario, if only 80 senators showed up, only 48 votes would be needed to get to cloture. Add to that a requirement that at all times, a member of the minority party would have to be on the floor, actually debating, and the burden would be even greater, while delivering what Manchin and Sinema say they want — more debate.

Narrow the supermajority requirement.

Another option would be to follow in the direction of the 1975 reform, which reduced two-thirds (67 out of a full 100) to three-fifths (60 out of 100), and further reduce the threshold to 55 senators — still a supermajority requirement, but a slimmer one. Democrats might have some ability to get five Republicans to support their desired outcomes on issues such as voting rights, universal background checks for gun purchases or a path to citizenship for Dreamers. A reduction to 55, if coupled with a present-and-voting standard would establish even more balance between majority and minority. In a 50-50 Senate, and with the GOP strategy clearly being united opposition to almost all Democratic priorities, Biden and Majority Leader Charles E. Schumer (N.Y.) need the support of Manchin and Sinema on a daily basis. They won’t be persuaded by pressure campaigns from progressive groups or from members of Congress. But they might consider reforms that weaken the power of filibusters and give Democrats more leverage to enact their policies, without pursuing the dead end of abolishing the rule altogether.

JDC

(10,133 posts)
4. Here is the history of minimum wage in this country
Fri Mar 5, 2021, 09:57 PM
Mar 2021

There has not been a lift since 2009. Saying we are now "doubling it" discounts the fact that there has been 0.0 increase in a dozen years. .50 a year since '09 would be $13+. So $15 is not really a stretch at all.




https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/minimum-wage/history/chart




Typo

Celerity

(43,497 posts)
30. Rethugs who are saying they worked for minimum and it payed their way thru uni are so full of shit
Fri Mar 5, 2021, 10:44 PM
Mar 2021

The minimum wage now would be over 20 usd per hour to equal the rate they were paid then.

Plus even a public, in-state uni now costs well over 100K usd for a 4 year degree when all expenses are accounted for.

Johnny2X2X

(19,114 posts)
5. Here's the deal, let Bernie lead
Fri Mar 5, 2021, 09:58 PM
Mar 2021

If Bernie can only get $11 and takes it, it’s an easy sell to the public. But you cannot get nothing because Republicans now want to raise it too and will as soon as they get some power and then take credit. Get a good deal now and then raise it more later.

Johnny2X2X

(19,114 posts)
27. Several GOP senators are already at $10
Fri Mar 5, 2021, 10:34 PM
Mar 2021

Romney and several other have their own proposal they want to bring for a vote. You can get 10 Reps if you do it right. But $11 or maybe $12 is all they will go to. So you take it.

Demsrule86

(68,667 posts)
46. I don't think you will get any reps in the end...same bait and switch they used with the ACA.
Sat Mar 6, 2021, 05:13 PM
Mar 2021

I hope we can. But I don't see 10 votes. Maybe five or six.

applegrove

(118,778 posts)
6. Raising minimum wage would then allow business to compete with Covid
Fri Mar 5, 2021, 10:00 PM
Mar 2021

payments. If they leave salaries at 7.25 then they can't compete with the $300 a week. Hmmmm I wonder what employers could do to get more employees? Hmmmm???? It would not take legislation. Each individual business has the power to do it on their own. Hmmmm??

$8.60 an hour equals $300 a week if each week is 35 hours.

$15 an hour is $525 a week. That is closer to turning people into consumers and not dependant on government subsidies.

TheFarseer

(9,326 posts)
12. You're asking for over a 100% increase
Fri Mar 5, 2021, 10:17 PM
Mar 2021

Raising to $10 is almost a 40% raise and there’s enough votes to do it.

regnaD kciN

(26,045 posts)
16. Not "enough votes" unless McConnell approves it...
Fri Mar 5, 2021, 10:19 PM
Mar 2021

We can't pass it without it being subject to the filibuster anymore.

regnaD kciN

(26,045 posts)
14. How...?
Fri Mar 5, 2021, 10:18 PM
Mar 2021

We can't do reconciliation again, so it's going to need 60 votes for cloture. Anyone propose to me which ten Republican senators are going to defect and go against their own leadership...especially knowing that President Biden and the Democrats will get the credit? Dream on. This was our one chance to pass it, and we fell short even only having to depend on our own Party to stand behind our President.

Demsrule86

(68,667 posts)
45. Yes, the Parliamentarian vote destroyed any chance of passing unemployment in reconciliation which
Sat Mar 6, 2021, 05:09 PM
Mar 2021

means we need 60 votes and we won't get them sadly.

Celerity

(43,497 posts)
32. one for each fiscal year (there was no fiscal year 2021 bill so we can pass that and one for 2022)
Fri Mar 5, 2021, 11:08 PM
Mar 2021
https://www.brookings.edu/blog/up-front/2021/02/05/what-is-reconciliation-in-congress/

HOW MANY RECONCILIATION BILLS CAN CONGRESS CONSIDER IN CALENDAR YEAR 2021?

Basically, two. One for fiscal year 2021 (which ends September 30, 2021) and another for fiscal year 2022 (which ends September 30, 2022). Congress doesn’t pass a budget resolution every year, and it didn’t pass one for fiscal 2021 in the last Congress, largely because there was little chance that the Republican majority in the Senate could come to agreement with the Democratic majority in the House.

With Democrats now in control of both the House and Senate, both houses moved quickly in early February to pass a budget resolution for fiscal year 2021. (Vice President Harris broke a tie in the Senate.) The resolution clears the path for a reconciliation bill that includes most, or at least a lot, of President Biden’s $1.9 trillion plan to extend emergency unemployment benefits, send $1,400 per person checks to most households, beef up the public health system, and send aid to state and local governments—and would not require any Republican votes in the Senate provided all 50 Democrats vote “yes.” The passage of a budget resolution does not, however, mean that the Biden plan will be enacted as proposed. Congressional committees aren’t bound by the details of the resolution, and members who voted in favor of the resolution could still vote against the final reconciliation bill later in the year (as has happened occasionally in the past).

Democrats may craft a second budget resolution (technically for fiscal year 2022) and a second reconciliation bill later this year, one that would include longer-run elements of Biden’s “Build Back Better” program, including investments in infrastructure and perhaps tax increases.

Hassler

(3,390 posts)
18. Try putting it in the upcoming defense appropriation bill. Maybe put
Fri Mar 5, 2021, 10:25 PM
Mar 2021

HR1 in as well. Dare the GOPee to vote against the troops and the military gravy train.

Demsrule86

(68,667 posts)
19. We don't have the votes. The parliamentarian ruled and it can't be done in reconciliation and the
Fri Mar 5, 2021, 10:26 PM
Mar 2021

we can't get 60 votes.

dem4decades

(11,304 posts)
22. Someone said they should take the minimum wage for each state and divide it by 2, to get a minimum
Fri Mar 5, 2021, 10:28 PM
Mar 2021

wage for each state. It came out to about $16.00 an hour in California ranging down to $12.50 for a state like West Virginia. Let's face it, each state is different and a one size fits all just doesn't cut it. Again someone told me about this proposal, if you have a link or a correction please feel free to correct me.

Blue_true

(31,261 posts)
25. Or do like what Florida voters approved.
Fri Mar 5, 2021, 10:32 PM
Mar 2021

Raise it to around $10 immediately, then get to $15 within four years, then index future adjustments to the cost of living index (which means it will likely automatically increase in the future).

I just look at people who insist of the get it all in one shot method and shake my head. They would get to $15, then 30 years later the minimum wage would still be $15, where with automatic indexing, it would be higher and businesses would be able to adjust their cost structure.

Celerity

(43,497 posts)
28. 10 usd per hour in 2023 or 2024 will be LESS in purchasing power than 7.25 usd was in 2009
Fri Mar 5, 2021, 10:34 PM
Mar 2021

and IF we took another 12, 13 years (like we are atm, IF we even pass a raise this year) to raise it again, you are looking at sub 5 (maybe sub 4) usd per hour in purchasing power in the mid 2030's compared to 7.25 in 2009.

To get to a point where we actually can raise it and then do some piss-arsed 2.75 usd raise spread out over 2 or 3 years is political suicide.

JI7

(89,264 posts)
36. And within California many areas are 15 like Los Angeles . Plus California requires hourly minimum
Sat Mar 6, 2021, 12:52 AM
Mar 2021

for tipped employees . So that can work out really well for people who might be lucky enough to get jobs in certain places that tip well.

ecstatic

(32,731 posts)
37. Seems like that would be the most strategic play
Sat Mar 6, 2021, 12:55 AM
Mar 2021

From my understanding it's supposed to be raised incrementally anyway, so why not just start with the first increment and go from there?

mitch96

(13,924 posts)
39. I might be wrong and it seems to me to be basic horse trading. Start well above what you want
Sat Mar 6, 2021, 12:46 PM
Mar 2021

and Incrementally move down to your real number.
YMMV
m

Bettie

(16,124 posts)
40. Because it would make people with business plans that only work
Sat Mar 6, 2021, 12:58 PM
Mar 2021

if they pay their workers as little as possible a sad.

Can't have them being sad about their terrible business plans.

BusyBeingBest

(8,059 posts)
41. I always thought $15 an hour sudden wage hike was unrealistic.
Sat Mar 6, 2021, 01:15 PM
Mar 2021

My son has a bachelors and works at an entry-level job in his field and earns 18/hour. The whole country's wage scale would be fucked up, like you say.

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