I do not think many understand how bad these variants are. We here in the EU are ahead of the US

[Celerity]

curve, and they are FUCKING the EU up. It is bloody madness that all these 'Murican Red' death cult-run states are basically going full bore 'it's over!!' mode.

I truly think they are working two angles

1. Kill off as many PoC as possible (as the death rate for PoC are so much higher than whites)

2. Make Biden and the rest of us Dems look as ineffective as possible.


Fucking bastards! Murderers!

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

1. So far the vaccines are good against new variants.

That could change, but I'm willing to remain optimistic.

And in all honesty, not enough Persons of Color will die off to make a real difference. Nor older people. Nor people in general. As terrible as this pandemic is, it's not putting a dent of any kind into the population. Really, it's not.

[Celerity]

2. it doesn't take that many in key swing districts and in super tight states

plus they just do it as they are white power berks

[dpibel]

3. Perception vs. reality

For starters, it's a bit cold to say, "Even though many more Persons of Color will die than Persons of Whiteness, the absolute numbers are trivial."

I believe that's what you just said, isn't it?

For finishers, whether or not the absolute numbers are significant, the fact is that people are scared about all of this. And, because the numbers are higher for Persons of Color, they are, reasonably, more worried about it than people (apparently) like you.

And, really, the question isn't whether this makes a dent in the population. Really. It's about the fact that (other than invulnerable rational types such as you) people fear having their mothers, fathers, sisters, brothers, and other such types die when, all things being equal, they wouldn't have, absent COVID-19.

So actually. What are you telling us here? "Fear not! Humanity is safe!!" That appears to me to be your helpful message.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

5. What I am saying is that while the absolute numbers are

horrifying, as percentages they simply aren't that huge.

I know, that makes me seem utterly calloused and indifferent to human suffering, but I'm tired of people carrying on as if this pandemic will kill off enough people to make a dent in the world population. Unfortunately, it won't. And I say "unfortunately" because there are already far too many humans on this planet (climate change being the most noticeable fallout of too many humans) and the numbers aren't decreasing at all.

Yes, I do know some people who have died of Covid. I am truly sorry for each death. But I tend to take the larger view, which is why I note that this isn't impacting the total population.

And yes, humanity is safe, or at least safe so far in the short run, is my message.

[dpibel]

6. I understand what you're saying

I do remember, back at the beginning, people talking about COVID-19 as the end of humanity. I'm not aware that there are so many now saying that.

So it seems to me you're flogging a straw man.

"Don't worry, little people! Humanity will survive the COVID-19."

What is the use of that message?

It doesn't change the fact that caution can prevent excess mortality.

Are you saying that people should just carry on as before, since this virus surely won't kill all of humankind? If so, that's some cold stuff. Again: are you good with this message when the COVID calls for you or your loved ones?

My best understanding of what you're saying is this: "Human population is a problem. So do not be disturbed by anything that reduces the human population. In fact, it's sad that COVID-19 is making no dent. What we need to find is something that will drastically reduce the human population, but not wipe it out altogether."

Have I got this right?

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

9. You do have it right.

Human population is a problem. There are nearly 8 billion people on this planet, well above the carrying capacity. 1 billion is possibly above the actual carrying capacity, but I'll go with that number as the potential or realistic number.

And yes, this virus is not going to kill a significant number of humankind. Yes, I'm honestly okay with some of my loved ones dying from this. And yes, I have already lost several loved ones to this virus.

Perhaps I'm more realistic than some.

I just spent some time trying to find life expectancy and the 1918 flu epidemic, and couldn't find what I'd found in the past. Which was that as terrible as that epidemic was, it impacted life expectancy for no more than two years. Meaning life expectancy dropped noticeably from 1918 to 1920, and then bounced back up to what it had been. Interesting. And that was with a far more devastating world wide pandemic.

Right now, life expectancy is hardly impacted. I'm sure that's mainly because an awful lot of those dying are older.

And yeah, we need something that will drastically reduce human population but not wipe it out altogether. You've got that absolutely right. This is something I've been thinking about for nearly 50 years now. That there are already far too many people on this planet, that we collectively make a lot of things worse (and yes, I'm complicit in this), and this needs to be addressed and changed.

Unfortunately, how our world proceeds is dependent on growth. More people, more jobs, more industry, more farm produce, and on and on. Our world has almost never experienced a true contraction of people, jobs, or anything. The Black Plague in the middle of the 14th century in Europe was pretty much the only exception. That resulted in at least 50% of people in certain specific places dying. In some places less, in some places more. One interesting outcome was that ordinary workers, now desperately needed for ordinary tasks (like plowing fields) were in high demand and could finally ask for better wages. The change in European culture was profound.

But that was predicated on half or more of everyone dying.

Even the worst scenarios for Covid-19 are in the range of single digits.

Meanwhile, there are far too many people on this planet. And it's only getting worse.

[mopinko]

14. i honestly believe this is an evolutionary event, and humankind will be better for it.

the smart and the kind will survive in greater numbers that the stupid and the mean.
and w climate change, too.
that is how life works. it's cold and hard.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

15. There's not going to be enough of the stupid and mean dying off

to make a difference. If you look at charts of world population, about the only thing that made a noticeable dent in the increase was the Bubonic Plague in the 14th century. Even the 1918 influenza pandemic barely shows up.

Keep in mind that every single day some 385,000 babies are born world wide. 140 million a year. So far, according to this site: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries, about 2.6 million people have died around the world from the pandemic. I know this sounds like I'm trivializing the genuine tragedy, but those aren't the kind of numbers that make a difference even in the short run. Unless this virus were to become incredibly more deadly, it's impact will not be on numbers, even numbers of those who survive vs those who don't. The impact is going to be on society in many other ways.

[Celerity]

4. Against the UK one, yes, but for the South African variant, Moderna and AstraZeneca are poor

Pfizer is better against the SA one than any of them, but even it produces a lot less antibodies, so it probably wears off much sooner. Johnson & Johnson is good against all in terms of preventing death.

[BigmanPigman]

7. A scientist/dr who is on CNN

or MSNBC has been pretty much on target so far. I forget his name but he wears a bow tie and glasses. I wrote on a post-it his predictions as far as the variants are concerned...not good.

He said they are more contagious and cause more deaths. He thinks the US will start to see the new higher numbers to start the first week of April and will increase until the beginning of July.

[Celerity]

10. Dr Peter Hotez?

here is a good article my him in a medical journals



Anti-science kills: From Soviet embrace of pseudoscience to accelerated attacks on US biomedicine

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100215188993

[BigmanPigman]

11. Yes, that's the guy!

[nitpicker]

13. Just think, spring break plus March Madness viewing parties, theme parks reopening

How many people won't be alive in May?

THEN one heaps the variants on top...

[retread]

12. I would love to see the study that concludes Moderna has a poor response to the South African

variant compared to the Pfizer vaccine.The studies I have found conclude BOTH Pfizer and Moderna produce reduced antbodies in response to B.1.351. However in BOTH the reduced response is still enough to be effective against the strain.

https://www.mercurynews.com/2021/02/17/lab-studies-pfizer-moderna-vaccines-protect-against-new-coronavirus-variants/

[movingviolation]

8. 3. Make U.S.A. un-competitive financially as they take in more foreign dark money

[Sogo]

16. Spot on with your analysis, IMHO....

Stay safe in the EU!!