Dammit - Now they're after Pepe (rape culture!!)

[packman]

Pepé Le Pew, a cartoon skunk who is part of the Looney Tunes stable of characters, has been reportedly pulled from “Space Jam: A New Legacy,” the upcoming animated live-action movie sequel starring NBA great LeBron James.

Both Deadline and The Hollywood Reporter confirmed the edit to remove the character, who for generations has made aggressive unwanted advances on Penelope Pussycat




https://www.huffpost.com/entry/space-jam-2-pepe-le-pew_n_6045d1dac5b69078ac6c786f

[WhiskeyGrinder]

1. Why "dammit"?

[Fullduplexxx]

8. Because he's a pussy grabber

[Noodleboy13]

57. That's actually funny as hell.

I remember disliking Pepe cartoons when i was a child. It was obvious to me even then the poor cat just wanted to get away and that Pepe was being annoying and unwanted. This is also when I learned that unwanted attention is bad, so he sort of provided an object lesson in how NOT to act.
But it's also how I learned French, so it's kinda a tossup.

peace,
Noodleboy

[Fullduplexxx]

59. I didnt like it cause it was the same gag everytime ... nt

[Nexus2]

65. *Ba-dum-tidh!*

[Fullduplexxx]

66. Lol. ...... nt

.

[greenjar_01]

2. Honestly, the whole Pepe le Pew storyline is fucking disturbing

Just because people may have found it funny when they were kids doesn't mean it's not weird as fuck to show to children. There's only one gag: the cat gets a white stripe from paint, le Pew thinks she's a female skunk and stalks her through the episode as she tries to escape from him. It's supposed to be funny because he's French and speaks in faux romantic tones and raises his eyebrows like some kinda Lothario. That's it. That's the whole joke. Seriously, we can't just shelve this shit as stupid and inappropriate?

[Walleye]

5. Yes offensive and unfunny. Never liked it even as a child

And I’m not easily offended.I don’t mind the song “Baby it’s Cold Outside”. Especially the Ray Charles version

[Hugin]

13. Well, the deeper joke is that it's difficult being a romantic skunk.

Which has turned him to extremes in the pursuit of a rare opportunity after being rejected his entire life by everyone with a nose. Chasing someone he mistakes as one of his kind.

I agree, a little deep for children. But, like most "children's" media, it didn't start out that way. Being shown in theaters as a prelude to more adult movies with mature themes.

Maybe if he were rebranded as a porcupine romancing a pincushion.

[LizBeth]

20. Like an incel?

[Hugin]

21. Ha! Yeah, the original Incel.

Okay. Accurate.

[BlueStater]

28. I don't think he's an incel.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but I always thought incels were men who hated women due to their own bitter resentment of being unsuccessful in getting one to date them.

I don’t get that vibe from Pepe at all.

[Hugin]

33. He fits incel in it's larger definition...

As, involuntarily celibate. The modern Incel is somewhat similar to what you describe. They have painted themselves as victims of liberated women, because, liberated women refuse to subjugate themselves to them on their straight out of the Old Testament terms.

Pepe has a few differences...

His goal is romance, love, and ultimately marriage. He's willing to do anything his target requires to gain her love. Love being the objective and not sex. To do this, he is in fact subjugating himself to her will. So, the opposite of the incel, but, due to his inexperience it comes across that way.

[Withywindle]

71. Well, except that in Pepe's case, the cat's will is "no."

Refusing to take no for an answer gracefully is the exact opposite of subjugating himself to her will.

There's nothing romantic about forced unwanted attention.

[Hugin]

73. Not always...

"She often finds herself being chased by the overly enthusiastic Pepé, but when the occasion has presented itself, Penelope has been portrayed as the pursuer. For Scent-imental Reasons, Little Beau Pepé, and Really Scent have all shown Penelope to harbor an attraction to Pepé whenever his scent is neutralized."

From: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penelope_Pussycat

Which is more than half of the original Pepe Le Pew cartoons. Because, it's thought to be much funnier that way due to the irony.

I'm sure it's been more than 40 years since I've seen any of these cartoons in their original uncut form. So, I couldn't really say.

[Politicub]

30. OMG - the original incel!

[alphafemale]

78. From what I remember she thinks he is handsome and appreciates the overture...until

She gets that first whiff of him.

i have more to worry about than cartoons that were never intended for children in the first place.

[Hugin]

87. I seem to recall that as well.

I'm no believer in the effectiveness of cloistered virtue at changing society or making things such as abortion or being sexually homogenous illegal will make them disappear.

The greater issue is that the US's puritanical roots have led it to being punitive by default. It's not enough to have those who are different stop being different (which will never happen), they must be punished for being different in the first place.

It's the "Scarlet Letter" over and over again.

Yeah, Internet People problems seems to be with us for awhile. Like you, I have much bigger and more real fish to fry.

[Walleye]

3. To be honest, that cartoon always creeped me out.

[demmiblue]

17. Same. n/t

[no_hypocrisy]

4. FFS, he's French and an animal.

[bottomofthehill]

6. And a cartoon

[no_hypocrisy]

10. Good point.

Doesn’t anyone see Pepe is an exaggerated caricature of Charles Boyer? Warner Brothers was having fun.

[gay texan]

19. They used to make me laugh so hard when I was a kid

The reactions to his smell from other people and animals is what I loved the most. I got in trouble for reading aloud in his voice in my 3rd grade reading class.

[Deminpenn]

85. You have to be old or a fan of TCM

even to know who Charles Boyer is so to get the joke these days.

[Fullduplexxx]

9. And shown to kids

[alphafemale]

79. They were originally never intended for children

They were a feature shown before movies for adults.

I enjoyed them much more than the dreck that was pawned off for children.

Except for Pink Panther and the like. That was petty funny.

I did not not get most of the Bullwinkle low and inside jokes until I was much older. That stuff is brilliant.

[Fullduplexxx]

80. Interesting I didnt know that ...nt

[AZSkiffyGeek]

7. It's a Republican plot to force him to resign!

Pepe is getting Frankened! It's obvious that Trump is trying to get him removed!

[Fullduplexxx]

11. The original pussy grabber

[BlueStater]

12. Just retool his personality to reflect changing times.

I think this whole thing we do where we pretend offensive things don’t exist is just stupid. You don’t have to get rid of him, just update him.

[Demsrule86]

22. It is a cartoon with a skunk...we look ridiculous when we get involved in such things.

[Rustyeye77]

34. it is ridiculous.

first people... then statues...ok...now cartoons.

Can Bugs Bunny be next ?

[Elessar Zappa]

37. You have a problem with racist statues coming down?

The confederates were traitors and deserve no monuments or recognition.

[sarisataka]

41. I like to collect old cartoons

such as the WW2 era propaganda ones.
Let's just say if they want to keeps Bugs as the star of the movie, they better not delve too deep into his past...

[RandiFan1290]

77. Aww, too bad so sad

and trump lost

[4Q2u2]

14. It is a Caricature

It is supposed to be over the top. His behavior is supposed to be absurd.
It is poking fun at his totally narcissistic personality, that it makes him completely tone deaf and lacking any sense of awareness.
He is so caught up in himself that he is totally unaware of the world and it's opinion of him. AKA an IDIOT.

[greenjar_01]

15. Yes, it is centered on the emotional life of the abuser

[obamanut2012]

24. You literally just excsued his stalking and sexual abusing

Boys will be boys!!!!

[4Q2u2]

47. Never Did, not once

I never condoned, pardoned, nor explained away his behavior. In either written or spoken word.

[lame54]

43. And unaware the cat is not a skunk

[Iggo]

16. That dude was retired a long time ago.

It’s only back in the news because space jam didn’t get the memo.

Non issue.
Non story.

[Sympthsical]

18. I mean, he's super rapey . . . n/t

[obamanut2012]

23. They should be -- he is a stalker and sexual absuer

He is beyond "rapey."

Why are YOU defending his actions???

[BlueStater]

25. He's not even real.

His “actions” are whatever the people writing for him want them to be.

[obamanut2012]

38. No, he is real

He is part of an entertainment product that people watch, and leave very negative things from.

Saying he isn't real is odd, since he obviously is. He just isn't sentient.

Were the horrible anti-Semitic cartoons and comices Nazis wrote for kids real? Of course they were. Oh, who cares about "The Eternal Jew"! HE WASN'T EVEN REAL.

[ahoysrcsm]

60. Where is his pants?

Why do all these Looney Toons characters go around without pants?

[sarisataka]

26. Missed opportunity?

According to Deadline, a scene involving Pepe Le Pew was removed from the final cut of Space Jam: A New Legacy. The scene was filmed by Terence Nance, the sequel’s first director, before he left the project. Malcolm D. Lee took over in the director’s chair, ultimately making the decision to eliminate the live-action footage which was never animated. The scene would have reportedly spoofed Casablanca, with Pepe in the role of a bartender that flirts with a woman played by Greice Santo. As the scene continues, Pepe’s advances turn aggressive. He kisses the arm of the woman without her consent, and she eventually gives him a hard slap. Pepe later says that Penelope Pussycat has filed a restraining order against him, leading LeBron James to reply that Pepe can’t grab other Tunes without their consent.

It’s noted that Santo, who has dealt with sexual harassment, was upset by the decision to cut the scene. The actress and singer, who runs a non-profit with the goal of helping victims of domestic violence, points out that Pepe is punished in the scene and that it would have sent a message to younger viewers that Pepe’s behavior was unacceptable. It’s also mentioned that the decision to remove Pepe’s cameo is unrelated to a recent column in The New York Times by Charles M. Blow which argued, in part, that Pepe Le Pew contributed to the normalization of rape and predatory actions through his lighthearted portrayal.

https://screenrant.com/space-jam-2-pepe-le-pew-scene-deleted-reason/

Harassment leads to consequences (and possibly an opportunity to learn what proper conduct should be) vs put it out of sight and everyone just pretend it never happened?

[Rustyeye77]

27. More PC BULLS**t

Can’t people let friggin cartoon go ?

[Dr. Strange]

32. The Speedy Gonzales arc was funnier.

White wokescolds tried to hide him, but Latin America still thinks he's awesome.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speedy_Gonzales#Concern_about_stereotypes

[obamanut2012]

40. Why are you defending this?????

Do you think the racist crows should still be in these cartoons? They aren't real! It's PC Bullshit to think teaching rapey stalkerish behavior and racism is okay, as long as it's in cartoons!!!!!!!!!!

[wellst0nev0ter]

68. You can watch the Censored 11 on youtube all you want

Nobody's hiding them. They just don't have to make more objectionable content.

[Politicub]

29. That's a blast from the past!

I haven’t thought about Pepe Le Pew since I was a kid watching cartoons after school... decades ago in the past century, lol.

In hindsight, his behavior was awful and predatory.

[ellie]

31. Good.

I always hated Pepe, even as a child.

[RobinA]

35. Here's What Struck Me

as creepy once I was an adult. Seven old men keeping a beautiful young dead girl in a glass casket in the forest.

[Luciferous]

88. Omg right?! 😂

[Mossfern]

36. I think I'm going to retire

from all culture. You never know who's going to be inappropriate next. For goodness sake, it's a cartoon and I don't think that any child or even adult emulated Pepe or found him to be a role model. I know I'll get a bunch of flak for saying this, but I feel that things have gone way too far and the pendulum is bound to swing back in a big way.

Do we think that people will think that all skunks are overly amorous?
Are we taking the #Me too movement to old cartoons?

[Rustyeye77]

48. It never ends.

If someone is looking for perfection, then good luck.

Everything to someone becomes inappropriate .

[BumRushDaShow]

50. "I don't think that any child or even adult emulated Pepe"

this actually comes to mind (and in the Addams Family, it was a feature and not a bug) -



The stuff was in the "popular culture" and much of it was OTT and done "for laughs" because it was so ridiculous, but then they were a "married couple" ).

(and I will now try to exit out of this debate gracefully )

[Mossfern]

51. But Morticia seems to enjoy the attention

kinda.

[BumRushDaShow]

53. Well the context

is that Morticia and Gomez were a couple, although there were episodes where she wasn't having it. But with Pepe, the shtick was his chasing after black cats who he mistook for female skunks, and amazingly the storylines would usually have something happen that made the female appear to be one of his species via an "accident", where a stripe of white (paint or other material) might land on her tail, and away he went with his fantasy...

As a cultural thing, the theme was the "male chasing after the female" for some dalliance.

In the animal kingdom, the males were given the bright colors or fancy plumage or horns or other physical traits that were used to "woo" the female. That cartoon seemed to belie that by mainly showing the aggressiveness and skipping over the "wooing" part.

[BannonsLiver]

69. Totally agree

Peter Pan and Dumbo have been removed from kids content on Disney+.

That’ll fix it.

[frazzled]

39. I'm really more concerned about

Why so much violence, gun action, murder, and mayhem makes up a great part of our current visual culture, without people expressing the least reservation.

Why is that, do you think? I’d rather cancel Quentin Tarantino and his adolescent machismo than a cartoon character from the past. That’s just me.

[Trailrider1951]

42. Hahahaha! That's my name for my ex-husband

All full of fake lovey-dovey because he wants something, but when the mask drops you get a whiff of what a skunk he truly is.

Come to think of it, I've met a lot of guys like that, but once burned, twice shy.

[ismnotwasm]

44. Sooo. Just a cartoon? So is this

https://kotaku.com/come-on-anime-1820848313

In the category of “gross anime things,” let’s talk a little about an increasingly popular gross anime thing commonly referred to as “Really 700 years old.”

That’s when a 700-year-old demon with the body of a young girl who, somehow, finds herself in a sexually compromising position. Yep.

Historically, the trope has referred to otherworldly spirits like Koenma from Yu Yu Hakusho who, although he’s 700, looks like a toddler (complete with a pacifier). There’s also classics like the badass fighter Lady Kayura, whose hundreds-year-old lifespan isn’t apparent with her 12-year-old looks. It’s not always sexual. And it’s not always young girls. But lately, there’s been a lot of that, and oh man is it gross.

Now, there are, for example, childlike goddesses who are literally referred to as “loli big boobs”—I see you, Is It Wrong To Pick Up Girls In A Dungeon?. I see what you did there. It still doesn’t fly. Nope.

Can we stop pretending that cultural trends have no affect on opinion or behavior? Pepe is pretty cute, endearing even but he also normalizes bullshit behavior.

I don’t care if people watch it or even defend him. But let’s not gaslight ourselves with “it’s just a fictional character” all medium reflects culture.

[Polybius]

45. He's an unfortunate product of the time

We need to stop banning things that are offensive now that weren't in 1940.

[Blasphemer]

46. Good. He's basically a cartoon version of Trump

He's intended to be seen as clueless but harmless, his antics dismissed and never taken seriously. Being raised with cultural norms such as this is precisely the reason we got someone like Trump as president.

[Fix The Stupid]

49. heads are going to explode...

Notice the similarity between the cartoon (as in, fake, not real) Pepe and the very real Gov. Cuomo?

Yeah, thought you all missed that...

hy·​poc·​ri·​sy | hi-ˈpä-krə-sē


1 : a feigning to be what one is not or to believe what one does not : behavior that contradicts what one claims to believe or feel especially : the false assumption of an appearance of virtue or religion

[Beringia]

52. I named one of my Maine Coon cats Pepe Le Pew

I never associated Pepe with a person, not by any stretch. Pepe seems to be really into being a French Romantic, not a chauvinist, in my opinion.



Striper and Pepe on the right

[IcyPeas]

54. oh puleeeeeze

it's a friggen cartoon. I loved Pepe when I was a kid. he's cute.

this is insane.

[superpatriotman]

55. It's clearly non consenual

That poor cat. Sylvester would never treat her that way. Neither would Tom.

[demmiblue]

56. It's kind of weird how people don't recognize how fucked up that cartoon was.

Link to tweet

[ismnotwasm]

58. Yup

[Celerity]

62. It isn't weird per se, it's just another example of a deeply embedded sector of the continuum

that exists within the philosophical ecosphere here, and is espoused by some who are in possession of a certain mindset. It is very easy to predict the reactions to a multiplicity of subjects that will spring forth from that zonal area of the continuum. You see it made manifest right here on this very thread.

[radius777]

61. Pepe Le Pew is rapey, but maybe they should just update the character,

so as to avoid the RW coming at us with the 'cancel culture' strawman.

Lots of cartoons and old shows have ugly elements that are out of place today. We can't just dump all of those characters. Updating what they represent, like I guess they did with Barbie (introduced more 'empowered' versions) could possibly work.

Seinfeld is one of the best shows, and when I look back at it and other shows from that time - it has several racist/sexist etc elements even as it tried to be ironic about it. The list goes on. In Living Color was also a great show from the 90s but there were numerous skits that could be viewed as sexist, racist, abelist, homophobic etc.

[MicaelS]

63. "I did not make those cartoons for children, I made them for me."

That is a quote from one of the creators / writers / directors of the Warner cartoons made during the height of theatrical cartoons.

The works of the Golden Age of animation are no less works of art than any theatrical film. They were slapstick and meant to be. They had adult ideas that went straight over the heads of kids. “It ain’t Windell Willkie” was a favorite phrased used. What child would know the answer to that?(Google it )

As far as Pepe goes, he was a big coward. One time when the cat chased HIM, he ran away.

What is creepy as fuck is the crap people read into cartoons that are 70 years old. And fuck the PTA for getting the classics censored back in the 1960s.

[betsuni]

64. Always hated Pepe. Leave the pussy alone.

[tinrobot]

67. I've worked in animation for decades, including a few stints at Warners.

Personally, I think this took way too long. Glad it happened. That skunk is an abuser. His character needs to be retired.

For history's sake, I do hope they preserve the original cartoons, though.

[Polybius]

70. In this very thread, I can tell who's Gen Z

Vs. those who are Millennials, Gen X, and Baby Boomers.

[Withywindle]

72. I'm Gen X and I'm pretty skeeved out by Pepe

There's really only one joke and it's not very funny.

[betsuni]

74. How so?

I can't tell!

[GusBob]

75. Gen Z What's that? Under 24?

I dont think there are many DUERS that age This ain't snap chat

I'd bet very few. Id bet none on this thread.

Id further bet that folks that age have never seen that cartoon ever.

[Celerity]

82. I am right on the cusp of Gen Z (I am 24, born in 1996, Gen Z was born in 1997 to 2012)

I am what is known as a Zennial (also called Zillennial). We are a micro gen, born from 1992 to 1998 or so.

2 points

I am one of the youngest regular posters on DU atm from all that I have seen. There was a 'what is your age' poll a year ago and it was myself and 2 (at the time, now they are 20 I wage, and one self-erased their vote now) 19 yo's, both of whom never post, as the only people under 25yo, out of hundreds of responses. The age cohort dispersion DU makes it hard on me at times. It can get very draw-bridgey, and also far too reactionary for my taste, but is still is the best US political chatboard I have found. I do wish more people in my age cohort (18 to 30) would join. I have tried to get dozens of my friends (some American, some UK, some EU), fellow students, my own students, co-workers etc to join, but so far most all have had a negative reaction and quit (or never joined).

Second point,

Id further bet that folks that age have never seen that cartoon ever.

of course we have, hello internet


cheers

[betsuni]

83. ...

[Celerity]

84. ...

[speak easy]

89. The test of Generation Z is ...

whether you can remember a world before the iPhone / Instagram / Selfies and Youtube.

[Celerity]

90. Too subjective, and in some cases, false, as Instagram didn't even launch until late 2010, and its

Android and desktop versions (which blew it up in popularity to systemic levels) launched in mid and late 2012, respectively.

[speak easy]

91. If you were well of enough, you joined Generation Z early.

By 2010 - the iPhone 4, YouTube and selfie culture were all in place.

[Celerity]

92. That is not determinant of the cohort as it is subjective, it is not an accepted measurement

by academic demographers.

[speak easy]

93. What distinguishes Zoomers IMO

is having access to the internet everywhere . The smartphone changed everything. That's my bet on the cultural shift - if you can remember life before the iPhone, Youtube and selfies, you are a millennial. (or perhaps zennial)

[Celerity]

94. You are trying to stretch the duration of the millennial gen to the point of near meaninglessness

A 40 year old born in 1981 is most definitely not in the same gen as a 2002, 2003 born person (that last person fits your definition). You also are using a technological-dependent definition that cannot be universally applied.

[speak easy]

95. You were the one who suggested 1997 as the beginning of Gen Z.

What is unique to that group. One answer - by the time you were a teen, you were taking selfies and posting them on the net - a transformative aggressive pecking order that has become more entrenched, year by year.

Look-At-Me ; Like Me

[Celerity]

96. 1981 to 1996 (it was 1995) is the broadly accepted timespan of the millennial gen

If you are claiming it expends in the 2000's you are outside of mainstream demographical science

You also have now slid the goalposts of your own positing (and ironically your new test shortens the millennial gen and vastly expands the Gen Z cohort, so you are all over the place)

by the time you were a teen, you were taking selfies and posting them on the net

there were people born in 1989 to 1996 who were, at 13 years of age, doing just that

so now you are going to include all those as Gen Z?

[speak easy]

98. ?

I don't think we are on the same page here.

I am going with you definition of Gen Z as people born 1997 or later.

The first phones that had a front facing camera were the iPhone 4, and HTC Evo 4G in 2010.

What I am saying about Gen Z, is few can remember much of life before the smartphone.

I presume you accept that the smartphone has radically changed the way we live?

[obamanut2012]

76. Old GenXer, have hated Pepe since I was a kid

As an adult, I recognized he was a stalker and really rapey.

Everyone should loathe this kind of stuff, and trying to say only certain age groups do is gross.

[betsuni]

81. Yes, I'm technically Boomer but more X.

Have always put myself in the cat's place as a kid and GROSS.

[obamanut2012]

99. It made me sad for the cat when I was a kid

Very upsetting.

[Treefrog]

86. This thread is just funny as hell.

[Johnny2X2X]

97. He always distrubed me, even as a kid

Just a total creepy character. Glad he's being removed from cartoons, really is a sick portrayal.