Poll: Do you believe 16 & 17 year olds should be allowed to vote?

[MichaelMcGuire]

My vote : yes

[Ecumenist]

1. Fuck no. they fall in and out love every 5 minutes...

I think that waiting till they're 18 is still the way to go.

[pinboy3niner]

14. Hell, I fall in and out of love every 5 minutes...

...and I'm...let's just say a hell of a lot older than they are.

Of course, sometimes I forget, and I wind up screaming at the lady I've invited over to GET OFF MY DAMN LAWN!!!

[Ecumenist]

78. LOL!! You know what? I might need to rethink my opinion!

[TheWraith]

58. And that distinguishes them from regular voters... how, exactly?

Or more pointedly, that distinguishes them from the left wing as represented on DU, how?

The 16 and 17 year olds are the ones who are going to have to live with the consequences of future policies.

[Muskypundit]

2. No. Nope. 18 is fine.

[MADem]

3. Nope.

I'm all for raising the voting age back to 21. So long as the drinking age is 21, it makes sense. I also think they should raise the military enlistment age to 21 as well.

This is probably about as popular an idea as a wet fart in church, I'm sure.

[YvonneCa]

70. I like it...

... But you are most likely correct.

[pinboy3niner]

4. WHY???

If you have a new policy to propose, shouldn't you state your reasons? Why are you for it?

[Saving Hawaii]

5. Why the hell not?

They're as politically competent as the rest of the electorate.

[MichaelMcGuire]

17. I known I wasn't the only person with that view

[Wistful Vista]

66. And as politically INcompetent as well. Hardly a reason to hand them the power of the vote.

Leave it alone, sez I.

[wundermaus]

6. that question opens up some interesting possiblilities...

1. Why is a kid 18 of years old enough to die in the armed forces but too young to buy a beer?
2. Why is a kid of 17 too young to vote but there are people older than 70 years old who can't find their keys.
3. Why not let kids from 13 to 17 participate in a form of pre-goverment where they participate in junior voting and form the 3 branches of pre-government with functions as a predictor and prototype of actual governance?

Just musing if our kids could possibly lead us out of our asinine adult stupor...

[JDPriestly]

12. Why is a kid of 18 old enough to die in the armed forces but too young to buy a beer?

Well, I don't think a kid is ever old enough to die in the armed forces, but the reason that teenagers should not drink alcohol is that their brain development is not completed and they can be affected by it. Also, kids who drink in their teens are more likely to be habitual drinkers or alcoholics, and that can be bad for their health.

Lots of 40-year-olds cannot find their keys. Some people are better at finding their keys when they are 70 than when they are 30.

That aside, seniors who are truly demented probably won't even remember to vote, so you don't need to worry about that.

[Ter]

61. You can star in a porno at 18

I'd rather my 18 year old girl have a beer.

[MichaelMcGuire]

18. The thing is politically interested teens

Will have as good a idea of who to vote for as anyone else....

[snappyturtle]

7. No. nt

[GReedDiamond]

8. "Fourteen Or Fight!"...

...Wild in the Streets...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wild_in_the_Streets

Not only to vote, but to hold office, including the Presiduncey.

On second thought, 18 is probably about right, but if it was lowered to 16, I wouldn't worry about it.

[pinboy3niner]

9. Your next graphic project: Plan 14 from Outer Space

[GReedDiamond]

45. I'm still waiting for Hermie "Koch" Cain to pay up...

...for the Plan 999 job.

[JHB]

33. How'd Rush Limbaugh end up on a 1968 movie poster?

The bigmouthed guy on the bottom right. It's prophecy, I tells ya!

[GReedDiamond]

43. Yer right - Limbaugh would be the first in line for the LSD...

...reeducation camps.

[Lil Missy]

10. no

[JDPriestly]

11. No.

16 and 17 tend to be the years when kids grapple with leaving home -- either physically or emotionally. Kids tend to be very rebellious and don't yet show the judgment they show at 18 and older.

16 and 17-year-olds are just a bit too young to vote. Frankly, I think that 16 is probably too young to drive. It would be better if kids waited to 18. Now, some kids are more mature at those ages, but even really smart kids who are good students tend to have a tough year or so right at about 16 or 17.

[Umbral]

15. Yeah, I remember, that was the precise time I read Atlas Shrugged,

There exists the danger that someone of that age could happen upon an election in the week that fantasy still remains believable. By all means, lets just agree, they are too fucking stupid. Better not to take the chance.

[Umbral]

13. I believe every breathing soul in this country should have the right and obligation to vote.

If you disagree, maybe you should reexamine your notions of DEMOCRACY.

[pinboy3niner]

16. EVERY breathing soul? 4 years old? 5? How about 3 or 2?

Is that your notion of democracy? That's preposterous.

[JI7]

20. yup, Jim Bob Duggar will get 25 votes or whatever number of kids they have

[bowens43]

23. this not a democracy and wasn't meant to be.

"Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on whats for dinner.' B. Franklin

[Yupster]

86. Even the squirrels in my back yard?

Or do you think they have no soul?

And if you think that, I'd ask you to keep your religious notions to yourself.

[MichaelMcGuire]

95. I can't disagree with this

Democracy should always be in the hands of the many not the few.
As should power.....

[JI7]

19. in 1-2 years when they turn 18

[Quantess]

21. No. They will just be voting the way their parents vote.

They either hold their parents political views, unchallenged...
Or, their parents tell them how to vote.

[Saving Hawaii]

24. That's what everybody older than 18 is doing anyways.

Not too many people jump the bandwagon they grow up with.

[Quantess]

25. Oh, people do, but it takes some reflection and thought,

maybe some education, maybe by meeting some new people once they move away from home (although nowadays kids don't move away from home until their mid 20s, so maybe it doesn't matter as much as it used to)

I'm just afraid of a domineering parent ordering the kids how to vote.

[Saving Hawaii]

26. Not many.

How do you vote? How do your parents vote?

Not saying it doesn't happen, but it's not particularly common.

[Quantess]

29. Most probably stay in line with the parents,

but there is a lot of disagreement between parents and their adult children on politics! Look at all the families with mixed political views. We see stories of it on DU all the time. My own family is mostly liberal, but I've got a RW brother.

There are young teens who disagree with their parents too, but they don't really know enough about the world yet to be voting, in my opinion.

[Jennicut]

38. When I was 16, my parents were conservatives and I was very liberal.

I guess I "rebelled" but they let me rebel by listening to my views. We agreed to disagree. I will do the same for my children...get them involved in the process but stand back and let them formulate their own views. Not all parents tell their kids what to think 24/7.

[bowens43]

22. no.

[muriel_volestrangler]

27. At 16, some people are just about starting to get responsible enough

but it varies between people, and it's no bad thing if people have a year or two to get properly informed of what other people's lives are like, before they get to vote on issues that affect others. 18 seems a reasonable age for the actual vote.

[JVS]

28. There has to be a cutoff somewhere.

If you put it to the ballot, I'd vote yes. But I'd rather vote for something saying that people under 18 will not be charged as adults for crimes and leave them without the vote.

[Yupster]

87. 18 is a good cutoff since

it's at 18 that your signature becomes legally valid. Before that your signature can't be used to enforce contracts, you can't sign to open an investment account, etc.

[no_hypocrisy]

30. No.

Many kids in that age group lack the interest in civics, history, and current affairs to actively participate by voting. Even if you had a group of them vote, their choice would likely be influenced or corrupted by the Madison Avenue advertising on TV or whatever their parents discussed at home. I don't see them reading media (newspapers, magazines of all ilks) and then going online to get information beyond MSM.

While my argument could be extended to 18 year olds, at least there's a chance that demographic would be in college (I know, less likely these days) and would be in a different universe where they could access more information to make a better choice when voting.

[Saving Hawaii]

39. Yes.

"Many kids in that age group lack the interest in civics, history, and current affairs to actively participate by voting."

And oddly enough that's true of their peers in the 18-105 years old demographic.

"Even if you had a group of them vote, their choice would likely be influenced or corrupted by the Madison Avenue advertising on TV... I don't see them reading media (newspapers, magazines of all ilks) and then going online to get information beyond MSM."

And oddly enough that's true of their peers in the 18-105 years old demographic.

"or whatever their parents discussed at home."

That's true of a majority of their peers in the 18-105 years old demographic.

"While my argument could be extended to 18 year olds..."

No, your argument could be extended to the entire friggin electorate.

[sofa king]

31. Nope, and they shouldn't be allowed to fight, either.

Our society needs to decide whether or not to treat everyone below the age of 21 as pre-adults across the board, as in no driving, no voting, no drinking, and no military service; or to roll all of those "privileges" back to a younger age.

As long as America's youth enjoys some of those privileges, but not all of them, then they will be treated inequitably and used to the advantage of the society that is exploiting them. So give it all to them, or take it all away, dammit.

[TBF]

36. I have said that for years -

the age should be 18 or 21 - and it should include all rights. None of this dying in the military at 18 but unable to order a beer.

Personally I would make it 18 and offer more enticements (lower interest rates) for student loans along with aid to community colleges. Focus on getting kids through high school and into community college according to their interests/abilities. College for those who have the higher test scores/abilities.

We really need to help out our teens transitioning to adulthood, and stripping them of rights is not the way to do it.

[Ms. Toad]

32. Your premise needs a bit of tweaking -

In some states, individuals who are 17 on the day the primary election is held, but who will be 18 by the date of the general election, are permitted to vote (for candidates only) in the primary election. My daughter voted in May 2008, and did not turn 18 for nearly 3 months.

http://www.uselections.com/faq_voter_reg.htm - See Ohio and West Virginia.

[99Forever]

34. My vote: No.

[alcibiades_mystery]

35. The voting age in a state should be the age at which juveniles can be tried as adults

If that age is 11, then 11 year-olds should vote in that state.

You either think an 11 year old can make adult decisions, or you don't. Moreover, having the capacity to have your entire life taken away by the government without having any say over that government is tyranny. Every state that tries and sentences minors as adults without giving them voting rights is both inconsistent and tyrannical.

[kenny blankenship]

88. Excellent point.

Also may I add that, having watched "adults" vote for many years, I am no longer especially fearful of how "adolescents" may vote.

[Jennicut]

37. Most 16 year olds are not interested in politics yet but I was at 16.

I first got into politics at 16 and watched the RNC, DNC and everything else in 1992. I was totally for Clinton and against Bush and I really formed my politics then. I think some 16 year olds are mature enough to vote but some are not and most just have no real interest because they are not adults yet. They may pay a cell phone bill or gas for their car but they have limited experience with taxes, health insurance, etc. So I think 18 is still a good age. But 16 is a great time to get your kid interested in the political process. My parents are conservatives but they still let me talk about what I believed in and they are a big reason I voted in my first election in '96.

[Neoma]

72. Psh, I was into how the political process worked by age 12.

7 years of agony for not being able to vote Bush out of office. If people are not interested in politics, they probably won't vote anyways.

[Demonaut]

40. no

[Puzzledtraveller]

41. erm.. no

[Charlemagne]

42. as long as they vote

the same way I do, then yes.


Hey McGuire, did you see this: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-16478121

[MichaelMcGuire]

63. I have a feeling 16 year old tend to be big soft 'lefties' like me

So it suits me.... I joke of course apart from being a 'lefty'
I think its right that 16-17 year olds can vote. I personally see most of the no camps reasons for not giving them the vote to be piss poor....




Your bbc link yes....

[ecstatic]

71. True, but they'd most likely be very low info voters

choosing Ron Paul types. I still think they should be able to vote if they want, but I didn't even pay attention to politics until around 19 or 20.

[MichaelMcGuire]

73. I was 15 when I started to take a interest in politics

[HappyMe]

44. No. nt

[NorthCarolina]

46. With the corrupt voting system in the US, I'm not so sure it would make a difference. nt

[Kellerfeller]

47. No

[lumberjack_jeff]

48. No. n/t

[sufrommich]

49. Because we don't have enough ignorant

voters without allowing children to vote?

[sarcasmo]

50. Old enough to drive old enough to vote.

[NYC Liberal]

51. If you can get a job and pay taxes, why not be able to vote?

As for immaturity (aside from the fact that there are PLENTY of immature or crazy adults), are the "immature" 16 or 17 year olds even going to register and show up to vote? Probably not.

[yawnmaster]

52. How about; if you can read the ballot (in one's native language), you get to vote. eom

[Yo_Mama]

53. No

I'm sorry, but relatively few are mature enough to know what it's all about.

Most are living at home. Many teens don't even have jobs now. They just are too young and have too little experience to be meaningful voters.

Our laws broadly recognize that they are not adult and can't be held to adult standards yet. They can't sign an installment sales contract. Guardians are responsible for paying their bills. Medical facilities can't generally treat them for all except the most extreme emergencies without parental authorization.

If we want to change all that, then I would consider changing the voting age - but I don't think we should change it.

[FreeJoe]

54. No

They lack the experience and maturity to make an important decision like that. I think that only people in their 90's and up should be allowed to vote.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

55. well, there are a lot of 16 year olds (mentally) voting already. nt

[Moondog]

56. No. n/t

[LanternWaste]

57. No. An arbitrary, wholly made-up number is required

No. I believe an arbitrary, wholly made-up number is required-- regardless of what the number should or should not be, and I see no validating reason why it should be lowered... else the impetus of the argument becomes what is the precise and relevant difference between a seventeen year voting and an eight year old voting (however, I can only presume that there are indeed those who would see an eight year old vote, and I'd be compelled to suggest "you should re-examine your definition of mental and emotional maturity within the context of national civics and human history...&quot

[GodlessBiker]

59. No. Some are certainly capable, but a bright line at 18 is preferable (imho).

[montanto]

60. Not "no," but "HELL no!"

Good grief.

[Orangepeel]

62. I think there should be one age of adulthood at which one becomes a full fledged citizen

And that age should be the age at which people can vote.

Society should decide based on scientific/sociological research and custom what that is -- 16, 18, 21. Children can be treated differently legally in the ability to buy products, sign contracts, etc., or not (e.g., allowed to drive or work), but once a person is a voting citizen, there should be no additional restrictions on them.

[JackRiddler]

64. Hell yes - the young are the disenfranchised.

One-quarter of the population - the one with the most stakes in the political process - has no say. I laugh at rationalizations like 16 year olds are immature; as opposed to whom? Never met a 55-year-old idiot? Wow! Some people are wise at 16 and some people will never be wise at any age. Those who will be motivated to vote will tend to be the smartest and most careful in the age group.

[MichaelMcGuire]

68. Exactly

I believe it has a lot to do with
how they view young people in a poor light

A good few are more savvy than there given credit for.

[Puregonzo1188]

65. Looking back on it, I was pretty politically inclined at that age. And I would probably not have

voted any different today if given the same choices in the same election as I would have when I was 16.

So I go with yes.

[Neoma]

67. Yes. Some of them are emancipated, or have higher IQ's than most adults...

Not being able to vote Bush out of office was one of the most disappointing times of my life. It's all simple unrecognized ageist attitudes towards teenagers. Young adults are still looked down upon like they don't know jack shit, especially if they don't have a college education.

Course, I can see peoples worries. I wouldn't want my 16 year old voting if s/he wasn't properly educated by a fail factory school. But what's the difference between that and high school dropouts that turned 18 and voted? I could say that some 30 year old shouldn't be allowed to vote because she's a dumb-ass. But she can because there shouldn't be a discrimination. People don't want them to vote because they're rebellious? I'd say everyone on OWS is a little rebellious right now, and I'll be damned if their vote is suppressed. I also say that people who are mentally challenged should be able to vote (if they're able) and prisoners should be allowed to vote. No reason to suppress United States Citizen votes. Everyone who has a voice should be able to speak their mind.

[Gman]

83. Intelligence is a constant. Age doesn't matter

Knowledge grows as one ages and learns. The two are not the same.

[HuckleB]

93. Actually, a great deal of research is showing that intelligence can change over time.

Environment, etc... may play a big role.

[ecstatic]

69. Sure, but they will most likely just mirror their parents

But they should still have a voice.

[Ship of Fools]

74. Nope.

[barbtries]

75. no

nt

[demtenjeep]

76. no

I don't

[JitterbugPerfume]

77. no

I don't think we are ready for President Beiber . It's bad enough as it is

[rustydog]

79. No. No.No No

[Enrique]

80. no nt

[Enrique]

81. no nt

[Gman]

82. Hell no

[kenny blankenship]

84. At 1st blush "no". Upon reflection, however

I see no reason to believe that their votes will be any less informed or intelligent than those of their elders. They can drive and do other things like adults.

So I say, "Yes" Their voices should be heard too.

[white_wolf]

85. Yes they should.

If they are old enough to be tried as adults for their crimes they are hold enough to vote, drive, and buy alcohol. States can either be consistent and not try anyone under the age of 18 as an adult or they can grant full rights as soon as a person becomes eligible to be tried as an adult. All this stuff about 16/17 year olds being immature or making bad decisions really makes me laugh, I'm betting most of the Tea Party's base is much older than 16/17. In fact most younger people hold more left leaning views than older people.

[frazzled]

89. Adding another big fat no

Voting is irrational enough as it is.

[TheKentuckian]

90. I say yes. Having to register and actually go vote should be about as self selecting

as most of the electorate, probably a bit higher due to the stepping into adulthood factor and of course some parental pressure (that probably roughly balances across the spectrum).

I also think it might well prove to plant seeds of a lifetime of habits that improve participation over time by playing into the rites of passage that are in full swing at the time and maybe the "wise" adults that are worried about ignorant kids mobbing the polls will put some of their energy into getting civics back in schools.

[Warren DeMontague]

91. Depends entirely on what they have on their ipods.

I demand the right to veto their franchise based upon music selection alone.

[HuckleB]

92. No.

Brain development is far from final, and the impulsivity is much more of an issue at that age.

It doesn't make sense in this day and age.

[Warren DeMontague]

94. Given the demographics of this country right now, we're lucky us 40somethings can still vote.

One Nation Under The Baby Boom, as it were.