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question everything

(47,479 posts)
Sat Mar 13, 2021, 06:56 PM Mar 2021

Start with one dose to everyone?

Smerconish covered this earlier today. Kansas senator Marshall, of the "GOP Doctors Caucus" - whatever that means - is pushing for starting with one dose to as many as possible, and later, when more doses are available, to give the second dose.

The clinical studies, however, of Pfizer and Moderna, specifically stated two doses three weeks apart.

The majority of Smerconish viewers - 64% - rejected this notion.

Here is the WSJ letter

One Shot Is Better Than None

In my four years in Congress, the phrase I’ve heard most regularly abused is “Follow the science.” Politicians, bureaucrats and reporters in Washington—many of whom, based on their comments, seem to have last attended science class in eighth grade—have a penchant for developing policies and then lecturing the opposition on the “science” that follows their agenda. Like my granddad used to say, “figures lie and liars figure.” Covid-19 policy is no exception. In medical school, my classmates and I were taught to apply the science practically to the messy world around us, not merely follow theories as if we practiced medicine in a vacuum. Once we got out of the classroom, many of us quickly found that not every patient’s clinical course was exactly what the textbooks said. The medical school graduates who quickly became the best physicians were those who listened to their patients, called on their experience, and, yes, applied the science only as made sense in particular circumstances.

(snip, he details the development of the HPV vaccine, also virus infection during pregnanacy)

It’s impossible to follow the science of most any virus with great certainty, especially a novel virus. The medical community knew from day one that the science on Covid would be predictably unpredictable and constantly changing. When government scientists—let alone politicians and journalists—present a hasty, incomplete hypothesis as indisputable fact, they’re acting contrary to science—and often driving a preconceived agenda. Science is a systematic enterprise that organizes knowledge into predictions about the universe. It is not a gospel of indisputable, never-changing truth. Just as cancer treatments have changed over time, doctors will discover countless false hypotheses that were put forward as fact by government agencies and healthcare experts from all fields surrounding Covid-19. Science is never settled.

Take the notorious subject of mask mandates. The overly certain “science” of bureaucrats first told Americans not to wear masks. Then we had to wear them indoors. Then this was extended to include outdoor mask wearing. Now, a good American needs to don two, maybe three masks even if you’ve had the virus or the vaccine to “follow the science”—unless you are seated at a restaurant, or with a small group that also is vaccinated. Then you’re safe. There is little scientific logic behind these shifts. But out of an abundance of caution, please keep wearing your masks in public.

Now let’s talk about applying science. Real-world evidence suggests that the effectiveness of one shot of the Pfizer or Moderna vaccine ranges between 72% to 92.6% after two weeks. Further evidence suggests the second shot could be given 12 weeks later instead of three or four weeks and be equally effective. After every senior citizen and high-risk individual gets their two shots, applied science would suggest we could save tens of thousands of lives if we give one shot to as many people as possible and came back for a second dose as more vaccines are available. This is assuming that robust real-world evidence finds a second shot even necessary, which it’s possible won’t be borne out by the evidence.

Consider this: If you had 200 Pfizer vaccines and 200 family members, and it was up to you, how would you allocate them? The current emergency-use authorization tells you to give 100 people two shots. Assuming it will be 95% effective, only 100 people would be vaccinated, and 95 would be protected. Alternatively, you could give 200 people one shot, assuming 75% effectiveness, 150 people at a minimum would be protected. This approach has the potential to address the relative limitations in supply and the hiccups we are seeing ramping up in mass vaccination sites right now. Each day that applied science is delayed, more people than otherwise will die from Covid-19, and the opening of businesses and schools will be unnecessarily delayed.

More..

https://www.wsj.com/articles/one-shot-is-better-than-none-11615250588 (subscription)


Dr. Marshall, a Republican, is a U.S. senator from Kansas. He represented the First Congressional District, 2017-21, and was a practicing obstetrician and gynecologist in Great Bend, Kan.


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This is why he takes his example from HPV and pregnancy, being an OBGYN, but this is infectious disease of which, if I may comment, he has no understanding.

6 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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JI7

(89,249 posts)
1. The J&J will be one shots . That's why Biden ordered a bunch of those
Sat Mar 13, 2021, 07:01 PM
Mar 2021

They are just one shot ange more convenient in how they need to be stored and can be moved around.

Irish_Dem

(47,053 posts)
3. The research is based upon X shots spaced X weeks apart. That is the protocol.
Sat Mar 13, 2021, 07:03 PM
Mar 2021

Once lay people start messing around with science based protocols, scientists can no longer predict outcome.

MDs don't necessarily have rigorous training in scientific methodology and design.
Lay people certainly don't.

brush

(53,776 posts)
4. One shot would be good if it was the Johnson and Johnson vaccine...
Sat Mar 13, 2021, 07:03 PM
Mar 2021

but that just came out so it's best to go with the recommendations of Pfizer and Moderna...three and four weeks apart.

What's he complaining about? Biden is handling it well and getting millions vaccinated per week. Some people just like to complain.

MFM008

(19,808 posts)
5. Its the UK model
Sat Mar 13, 2021, 07:06 PM
Mar 2021

Get everyone at least one up to 12 weeks apart.
We will have to see how their data comes out 2 know the long-term effects of exposure to covid-19 just one shot.

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