If it weren't for Al Franken, would Andrew Cuomo have half as much support as he does here?

[brooklynite]

[TreasonousBastard]

1. Tough question.

[Gidney N Cloyd]

2. Franken was a good lesson in allowing for due process.

[PrinceHakeem]

3. Pretty much the only reason I support him. I like that he's refusing to quit. How many

Allegations did Drumpf have? Why are Dems always held to higher standards?

[brooklynite]

5. " Why are Dems always held to higher standards?"

Might want to think about that question...

[madville]

17. Yep

Basically advocating that lower standards are acceptable.

[brush]

31. The real question should be why are so many Dems so quick...

to ditch due process?

[Demsrule86]

49. This began as a GOP plot...convinced of it. And we simply must say NO.

[madville]

7. Because we are better

You’ve already lost the argument if the justification is that Trump did it or got away with it.

[Blue_true]

9. Bingo. nt

[brush]

33. Better at ditching due process. What's the rush?

Some of those allegations seem kind of sketchy. Investigate please.

[Demsrule86]

48. The stories won't hold up long enough? One wonders.

[madville]

4. Probably not

Cuomo is done though. I expect some of his inner circle will flip in the next day or two since they’ll realize it’s time to save themselves and not ride the ship to the bottom.

[somaticexperiencing]

6. i'm not for firing squads, especially circular ones. why not an investigation?

[madville]

12. A year or two investigation that will be "he said, she said" inconclusive

I don’t think it will matter anyway, I predict a major bombshell in the next few days from his close staff, someone will break and try to save their career/reputation, they always do.

[dsc]

15. On what planet would this take a year or two

You give both sides three weeks to get their crap together, you take a few weeks tops to take testimony, and that is that. This isn't the discovery of nuclear fusion for crying out loud.

[Demsrule86]

47. There may be evidence ...some may confuse dates. Hard to keep lies straight...someone is lying.

We have a right to know who. I think there is a contingent that think this would be the easiest route to elect a woman governor. However, there should be a primary no matter what. This is an important governorship.

[samnsara]

8. for me, part of it.....but the other part is worried about who THE HELL will take Cuomos place...

..since trumps trials and, hopefully, convictions, will be in NEW YORK! will the new Gov be trump friendly and pardon trump? this bothers me more than anything and has made me, shamefully, question my sisters motives.

[Blue_true]

13. The second is a solid Democrat who was a US Congresswoman.

She lost her seat to a man who was found to be a crook, plead quilts and was pardoned by Trump. You think that she would fall over herself to give Trump a pardon?

My belief is that the charges coming Trump’s way will be so heavy with hard evidence against Trump that not even Ron DeSantis would pardon Trump, if he was in a position to do so.

[torius]

39. Hochul voted against Obamacare

and boasted of her approval among conservatives. There’s video of her talking about this. When she became Lt. Gov. she allied with Cuomo as that was her job.

[BradAllison]

41. She was probably given a pass by Pelosi on the Obamacare vote

In the end, it was stupid, but that district voted for a fucking convict because he was a right wing Trump sucker.

[Bettie]

50. So, she is pretty likely to be open to pardoning

Agent Orange and all of his minions.

[liberal N proud]

10. I am just tired of the double standard

Republicans never are held accountable but they scream about a democratic official and we have to hold them accountable.

[Blue_true]

16. So we become bare-assed hypocrites like republican politicians

and their staunch supporters?

There is a reason why people that were long time republicans are bailing out of that party. Stench can only be tolerated for so long by anyone that has a shred of ethics.

[liberal N proud]

19. No, that's not the answer

When trump supporters start bashing Cuomo, I always say to them that he should just do what trump did and go on.

Stops them dead.

Republicans know we will hold our candidates accountable and they will use it every chance.

[Blue_true]

24. What I want to see from our politicians

is that if they KNOW that there is something in their behavior that goes against the objectives that we stand for as a party, DON ‘T fucking run for office, let someone capable and who also has a clean ethical slate take the office.

Of course I have zero power to make that happen, but as a rank and file party member, that is what I want to see.

Screw republicans, I simply don’t care about what they think and I will fight them tooth and nail over policy.

[dsc]

11. my position has been consistent throughout

I think we should have an investigation. I think before we undo elections we should have an investigation. I will say he is looking worse and worse. I still have no idea the extent to which Franken misbehaved. Many of his accusers were either politically opposed to him or anonymous so there was no real way to evaluate their stories. Plus only two of the stories about him were in my mind serious misconduct (that of the USO tour and the Air America incident). Here you have multiple, named sources who are Democrats and in many cases quite serious misconduct. But again, this is what investigations are for.

[choie]

14. I don't understand

what is the problem with wanting an investigation?

[dalton99a]

21. It's easier to push people you don't like out of office than to run against them in an election.

[Budi]

30. + a million

And that is the gist of this entire fked up bs.

Thanks

[Proud Liberal Dem]

18. I think that a lot of Democrats have come to regret Franken's resignation prior to an investigation

I'm not sure I know how I feel about Cuomo. He was certainly a better and more stable leader than Trump was during the past year dealing with COVID and I have some concerns about how and why all of these allegations are hitting Cuomo now, with Trump out of office and subject to investigations and potential prosecution in his state. I personally think that, unless there is something egregious and/or some kind of serious misconduct that has been thoroughly investigated, we should not be so quick to force elected officials to up and resign their positions. And I would be willing to extend this same standard to Republicans accused of impropriety as well, even though they're less likely to be held accountable at all, but we still need to be the better example and hold our own accountable but I think that overall we need to stop rushing to get people to resign and let investigations happen before demanding accountability- actually make sure that people are proven to be guilty before talk about how we are going to respond. I feel like many resignations are the result of a period of intense media scrutiny that causes us as a party to start panicking about appearances and pushing us into just cutting our losses quickly, even if an investigation is pending. It may be very well that Cuomo has serious issues and maybe he should ultimately resign if the investigation reveals significant problems that undermine his ability to govern, but let's not make "Trial by Media" the dominant standard of justice in this country.

[tinrobot]

20. There's a thin line here between due process and politics.

People have the right to face their accusers, so an investigation is warranted. Cuomo has that right.

On the other hand, politics is about perception, so many just want a resignation to make the problem go away.

Understandable, but... politics is also about ratf*cking your opponents, so the accusations may be suspect.

Because of that, as tough as it might be politically, I think Cuomo should have his investigation. It's his right, plus we don't want to make ratf*cking a successful strategy.

[dalton99a]

22. The purity police and their firing squad should aim at Republicans, not Democrats

Cuomo deserves his day in court, just like anyone else

[tulipsandroses]

23. Probably not. As well as I don't think people here follow NY politics

Therefore, they think people are just beating up on Cuomo. Not realizing that before he was a media darling during the pandemic, he had a problematic history and managed to escape prior scandals. What people are witnessing IMO, is the straw that broke the camel's back.

[hay rick]

25. Of course not.

Many, maybe most people here consider the Franken incident a rush to judgment and don't want to make the same mistake twice. Cuomo is getting both the benefit of the doubt for his own case and the guilt-tinged benefit of the doubt that was withheld from Franken.

[Poiuyt]

27. I just want to see Trump and the Republicans held to the same standard as Democrats

Dems have been quick to denounce Franken and Cuomo, but I didn't hear nearly as much condemnation on this issue (sexual assault and harassment) for Trump. And he was far worse in my opinion.

[Beastly Boy]

28. Franken is a dsecent human being, and Cuomo is a nasty son of a bitch

It was kind of a shock to me to see how quickly certain politicians became complicit in a campaign to depose a decent human being. Not an iota of due process. My beef is with the people who are too quick to take sides, not necessarily with the accusers. In this sense, yes, I want the due process denied to Franken to be applied to Cuomo even though he is probably more deserving of reprimand than Franken ever was. But it's way premature to make this judgement.

But I wouldn't call it support. I just don't want anyone jumping to conclusions, one way or another, without having a good idea of WTF we are talking about. A consideration that Franken never got. And something tells me that Cuomo will come out of this scandal, real or manufactured, in a far better shape than Franken did. It appears that today's politics favor nasty sons of bitches.

[treestar]

44. Exactly OP is trying to

Equate an investigation with “support” to make us seem like we support sexual harassment. Like saying it is wrong for a lawyer to defend anyone accused of it. Accusation should be enough, that says.

[Beastly Boy]

54. I don't think the OP is trying to make anyone seem like we support sexual harassment.

We cannot even talk about supporting or opposing sexual harassment in the context of supporting or opposing one individual who was accused of it. But my point was that "support" is the wrong word to describe what is happening on DU. The support he mentions manifests itself here mostly in ways that DUers are far more willing to afford Cuomo the benefit of doubt until due process takes its rightful course. Something that I don't recall happening in Franken's case, when too many DUers jumped to a conclusion based on accusations alone.

[Budi]

29. Leann Tweeden, Tara Reade, ..appears to be a pattern

🙄

[Happy Hoosier]

32. It taught us to allow a full process.

Al was railroaded. Everyone deserves due process. BUT, I do take the allegations seriously.

[FlyingPiggy]

34. Probably not. We learn from our experiences.

[Raine]

35. Probably not. nt

[frazzled]

36. If it weren't for something else

I’m just going to say it. If all the people who’ve worked for him or with him over the past decade didn’t dislike him so much, this wouldn’t be playing out quite like this. There is a whole lot of bad blood out there over a whole array of things.

These harassment allegations would still be serious, but there would not be half of the Democratic legislators calling for him to resign before the investigation is completed, especially in light of Franken.

But truth seems to be: they just don’t like him very much. That is something he cultivated over the years, and there are very few who have his back now.

[NanceGreggs]

37. After Al Franken ...

... a lot of us are of the 'fool me once' school of thought - along with those of us who weren't fooled the first time around anyway.

We know that Trump is out for revenge against the 'voice of reason' that Cuomo became in the midst of the pandemic - and we know his operatives will do anything to please their master.

And there's the fact that allegations of a sexual nature (a) grab headlines, and (b) can rarely be definitively proven or disproven - and (c) often become a matter of ginned-up public opinion, rather than being a matter of facts being appropriately weighed and measured.

After what happened to Franken, people have every right to their skepticism.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

38. Totally unrelated sorry

[uponit7771]

40. Disagree, Franken did NOT let investigation process finish & paid price Cuomo's doing the opposite

[Laura PourMeADrink]

42. Agree with what you just said :). Guess I don't really

understand what the OP is asking/getting at. To me, the two people, and their actions, are not comparable at all.

Is it asking whether or not people who jumped on Franken now feel compelled to jump on Cuomo? No because OP mentions support of Cuomo so it's the opposite. ????

[treestar]

43. Support for investigation

And not just giving in to accusations alone. You’re trying to conflate those.

[Paladin]

45. No he wouldn't. (nt)

[Demsrule86]

46. Yes. After Northam we should know better. I expect Fairfax's carreer was destroyed by this sort

of thing...although he did not resign. Cuomo should not resign. There should be a primary and the winner should run. I bet many would be very disappointed that the Lt Governor does not win said primary. But New York is to important to lose. The Lt Governor did not win a statewide race on her own. She ran with Cuomo. And I am keeping score of who piled on too. One of the them is starting group to primary Schumer and Gillibrand. Clearly she had her own reasons for piling on. Those who 'piled' on will get no support from me. Should they end up in my neck of the woods or run for national office, I would vote for the other person in the primary. Playing into GOP hands for your own reasons is despicable.

[CTyankee]

51. My question is why all these women have come forward on this? And why now?

There should be an investigation. Is there a huge plot not yet uncovered that plans his ouster this way?

[Silent3]

52. I'm all for due process, but, as long as we don't go overboard, I like the we Dems are tougher...

...on our own people, and hold them to higher standards, than the blatantly hypocritical Republicans.

We all form opinions on stories like this before all imaginable "due process" has been processed. At this point, Cuomo looks pretty bad to me. I personally don't get the feeling that these are made-up accusations, and the accusations fit with what's been described as a toxic work environment Cuomo appears to have created around himself.

[kcr]

53. I think this is a very good question

As someone who supported Franken but thinks Cuomo is guilty, I've wondered this myself. I don't think there are very many of me; certainly not on DU. I will say that this has caused me to think back and have some empathy for those who thought Franken guilty and called for him to resign. I also recall that while I felt he was innocent, I didn't support all posts on the Franken side. There was a bit of retrograde sexism thrown in, and I remember cringing and thinking, "you aren't doing us any favors." I imagine that's going on now with Cuomo supporters as well.

So, having said all that, I think it's a mix of Franken PTSD, party loyalty, and a bit of sexism thrown in.

[dansolo]

55. You don't have to support him to support due process

[LetMyPeopleVote]

56. Cuomo deserves due process

Al Franken was treated horrible and there is no need to repeat this mistake.

I note that the Virginia governor stuck it out after people demanded that he resign and that was a good thing