OK, so if we are going to keep the "fall back" "spring forward" how about bringing it back to the

[question everything]

April-October mode?

Having it pitch black at 7:00 am is ridiculous.

[El Supremo]

1. Why did they change the Spring move to Winter?

This is ridiculous. I can see why they moved the Fall move to after Halloween.

[question everything]

5. The Halloween move is bad. It does not get real dark here until after 7:00 PM

so the kids have to wait longer to start with tricking and treating.

[rsdsharp]

9. In my area it doesn't matter. Trick or treating is from

6-8 PM. On October 30th. They call it “Beggars Night,” and kids are expected to tell jokes to get their candy. I have never seen an explanation that adequately justifies this.

[question everything]

10. Iowa? Yes, I remember this. Really cute.

[rsdsharp]

11. Yes. Des Moines area.

Cute is not the word I’d use. I usually tell the kids they can have two if they don’t tell the joke. Most look at me blankly and launch into the third or fourth attempt to get the joke out.

[orleans]

14. i've never heard of such a thing! kids trying to tell jokes? that's kind of funny

since i know the young ones don't really get the process of joke telling -- they'll make up jokes and if the punchline is funny it's usually only funny b/c it absolutely is disconnected from the lead-up.

so, then do you try to laugh or smile to appease them?

[question everything]

19. The joke is in a form of a question: why did the chicken cross the road?

And if you don’t know they provide the answer and, of course, you give the treat.

Really cute. I would reply that I don’t know. Obviously the parents came with the jokes and would stand nearby smiling.

Another thing from Iowa was the saying: if you are old enough to go unescorted, you are too old to ask for treats. Here, in the past years there would be teens with pillowcases and barely some mask (before the pandemic, of course). And when I mentioned it to some the response was that it keeps the teens out of trouble. Oh well..

[rsdsharp]

23. Yes, you laugh and smile, even when you've heard the same

“joke” multiple times that night. What’s tough is when the kid freezes up, can’t remember or just can’t get the joke out. I’ve seen little kids run away crying because if it.

Apparently it was instituted in the 1940s, when someone decided the kids should “work” for their treats. They didn’t appreciate that trick or treat is really a choice for whoever answers the door: give me a treat, or I’ll give you a trick.

[orleans]

25. i was telling my adult daughter about that this morning

she said: "way to make a holiday about something totally different"
i laughed and said: "i know. they should just make up a second holiday and call it Comics In Training"
which would actually, (in my opinion), have the potential of being a pretty fun holiday.

as far as having kids "work" for their treats--i think they work hard enuf with all the walking that is involved. even the kids getting pulled in a wagon sometimes have a problem separating from mom or dad and going up the walk-way to a stranger's front door--sometimes even that takes courage.

[marie999]

15. The first joke I learned was a dirty joke.

Two white horses fell in a puddle of mud.

[boston bean]

2. Having it pitch black at 415 pm really really sucks. 4 months of that is ENOUGH.

[Bucky]

18. Where are you that you get sunset before 4pm?

I guess having mountains to your west would give you an earlier sunset, but that does seem extreme.

[muriel_volestrangler]

21. If you're in Boston, then you get 0 months of "pitch black at 415pm"

We'll take the end of civil twilight to be when "pitch black" starts (that's when it gets dark enough to see some stars). The earliest that gets in Boston is 4:43: https://www.timeanddate.com/sun/usa/boston?month=12&year=2020

Compare that to someone with the OP's problem - a switch to DST making it pitch black (again, outside civil twilight) at 7am. In one of the worst places - Amarillo, civil twilight started at 7:33am after the clocks changed: https://www.timeanddate.com/sun/usa/amarillo . They get pitch black at 7am until the end of March. Plus from 9th Sept to 31st Oct, and 20th Nov to 20th Feb - about 5 months in all.

[roamer65]

26. New England should go on permanent Atlantic Standard Time.

You are more like Nova Scotia than Michigan, daylight wise.

[RicROC]

31. New York State should go on Atlantic Time, too

[roamer65]

32. ..

Definitely eastern NY.

[RicROC]

34. the problem will be NYC...

because Wall Street will not want to be another hour out of step from the country.

[muriel_volestrangler]

39. Geographically, Eastern Standard Time should be used from longitude 67.5W to 82.5W

That only puts the easternmost 20 miles or so of Maine into the logical Atlantic time zone: https://www.mapsofworld.com/usa/states/maine/lat-long.html

82.5W is roughly halfway across Ohio: https://www.mapsofworld.com/usa/states/ohio/lat-long.html

(Each time zone should be 360 degrees/24 hours = 15 degrees across. They're centred on 0W, 15W, etc., so Eastern is centred on 75W, which is roughly Philadelphia.)

[pnwmom]

33. Why is Boston the standard? Plenty of cities are farther north than Boston. n/t

[muriel_volestrangler]

35. because I'm guessing someone with the name "boston bean" is in Boston

There's nowhere in the contiguous USA that gets "pitch black" at 4:15; probably the worst place for it is Bangor, Maine, and the earliest time for the end of civil twilight there is 4:27. Stockholm gets it from Nov 11 to Jan 15 (ie two months); Tromso Oct 27th to Feb 6th. So that's less than three and a half months. That's in the Arctic Circle, but even that gets some "civil twilight" (because the sun is not far below the horizon) on the shortest day of the year.

[pnwmom]

38. We're that dark at 4:30 in late December. Not that much worse. I loved year round DST. nt

[muriel_volestrangler]

40. That's not 4 months, though

It would be the time of day when it's "pitch black" at the end of February that would give you 4 months of "pitch black" in the USA (since DST ends at the end of October, so 4 months takes you to the end of February).

[pnwmom]

44. In the late 70's there was a period when we had DST year around. It was wonderful. n/t

[Polybius]

3. I like it the way it is now

I love the fact that it gets dark later. Don't care at all about 7:00 AM darkness.

[smirkymonkey]

12. +1000

[hurple]

4. Except

It wasn't pitch black at 7 a.m. here.

So... YMMV.

[WHITT]

6. Unfortunately For You

you're in a distinct minority. The majority of Americans want permanent DST, as do a majority of state legislatures.

Not to mention the productivity. An extra hour that early in the morning gets you very little, whereas an extra hour in the afternoon gets you tons. Just imagine the infrastructure and construction industries.

[question everything]

20. I once heard that accidents in the dark are more common in the morning and, of course

you have kids going or cycling to school.

[former9thward]

47. If the majority of state legislatures want permanent DST then why don't they do it?

The states have the right to determine whether they want DST or not. Arizona and Hawaii stay on standard time all year long because that is what they want. Other states can go to DST year long if they want.

[rurallib]

7. Memorial Day to Labor Day would be plenty

[RicROC]

8. I like DST year round...

and if the US is for forced to accept Standard time, I would actively promote that the east coast goes to Atlantic Time Zone.

[roamer65]

27. Michigan included.

[Tree Lady]

13. All I know is my body is telling me

Its 10:30pm not 11:30pm and I am wide awake. Have a hard time sleeping to begin with and changing times doesn't help so I wish they would just stick with one so my body can get use to it and relax.

[marie999]

16. Jet lag

[pnwmom]

45. Take melatonin. It can be used to help with time lag. n/t

[Bucky]

17. I think they did it to line up with the most common spring break date

The majority of communities in the country have spring break the week of St Patrick's Day every year. It is marginally less disruptive to life overall if they go with that time frame.

The date in October matters less, because no one objects you getting that extra hour of sleep.

[leftyladyfrommo]

22. I like DST because that's what my dogs are on. nt

[Sogo]

24. I'm of the opinion that we don't need DST at all.

If people want to get more of the sunlight, just get up an hour earlier. Businesses and schools can start and end an hour earlier for a certain time of the year. The clocks really have nothing to do with it, except to force everyone to go through jet lag during the "spring forward."

[pnwmom]

29. All time systems are a convention. We should be on DST all year, as we were in the 70's

during the energy crisis.

[misanthrope]

37. Unfortunately, retailers don't see it that way

and the whole reason we are still using this ridiculous convention, and certainly why we're expanding it, is because retailers have lobbied for it. Data seems to show people are more apt to go shop or spend money if there is more daylight left in the afternoon.

So you see, Daylight Saving Time is little more than a way to lift you by your heels and shake more coins from your pocket. It has nothing to do with your convenience but is a fleece.

[pnwmom]

46. Millions of us don't use extra DST to go shopping. We use it OUTSIDE.

Malls don't need daylight to draw customers, but parks, beaches, etc., do.

[misanthrope]

48. People still spend money doing those things

They burn gasoline, for starters.

Like so much else in America, to get to the root you need to follow the money. The lobbying for extension of DST employed the increase in consumer spending as rationale for it.

[pnwmom]

50. The reason for daylight savings time in the 70's was to save energy.

In my state, DST passed as a voter's referendum, and it was driven by people like me -- who would rather wake up in a darkness that would soon disappear, than go home after work in the dark. Unfortunately, Federal law has prevented our state's referendum from taking effect.

[misanthrope]

51. PNW summers are great

However, federal legislators often take other things into mind.

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/100-years-later-madness-daylight-saving-time-endures-180968435/

The commercial aspects have been well explored in numerous outlets and studies over the years.

[pnwmom]

52. The DOE found that it results in a small but significant saving of energy.

https://www.energy.gov/articles/top-8-things-you-didn-t-know-about-daylight-saving-time

1. How much energy does Daylight Saving Time save? In 2008, Energy Department experts studied the impact of the extended Daylight Saving Time on energy consumption in the U.S. and found that the extra four weeks of Daylight Saving Time saved about 0.5 percent in total electricity per day. While this might not sound like a lot, it adds up to electricity savings of 1.3 billion kilowatt-hours -- or the amount of electricity used by more than 100,000 households for an entire year. These electricity savings generally occur during a three- to five-hour period in the evening. To learn how you can save energy during Daylight Saving Time, visit Energy Saver.

[pnwmom]

28. Having it pitch dark at 4:30 pm in December is ridiculous. But that's what we get here.

[NurseJackie]

30. Where is it pitch-black at 7AM? Here in Maryland ...

... at 7am, it's the dawn's early light (for about 10-15 minutes already).

[question everything]

36. Minnesota. For about 15 min, before "dawn's early light"

Spouse is calling me at 7:00 am from the rehab center and this morning I had hard time finding the answer button on the phone..

Well, should get lighter by next week.

[NurseJackie]

41. Hang in there!

[Celerity]

42. Perm DST FTW

[TxGuitar]

43. Can't complain in Houston

We like DST. It is plenty bright at 7am most of the time. Lived north of Dublin Ireland for a couple of years....seemed to be dark most of the time, with the exception of a few "summer" months, when it was definitely light until well after 8 or 9 pm.

[Raine]

49. Agree. 👍 nt