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The U.S. has no moral authority on lecturing other countries on human rights abuses (Original Post) USAFRetired_Liberal Mar 2021 OP
Part of rejoining the global community means taking these stands Mike 03 Mar 2021 #1
moral leadership llashram Mar 2021 #3
People ARE fighting against it here kcr Mar 2021 #7
ted cruz llashram Mar 2021 #13
+10000 BannonsLiver Mar 2021 #12
+1 treestar Mar 2021 #15
You can feel free to not care then n/t kcr Mar 2021 #2
You are on full ignore USAFRetired_Liberal Mar 2021 #4
Oh, no! n/t kcr Mar 2021 #5
That is the absolute truth malaise Mar 2021 #6
Since there is no country that is clean on human rights ripcord Mar 2021 #8
I guess my OP should have been and could have been clearer USAFRetired_Liberal Mar 2021 #9
you could not llashram Mar 2021 #16
I guess my OP should have been and could have been clearer USAFRetired_Liberal Mar 2021 #10
There is plenty of hypocracy around ripcord Mar 2021 #11
It does treestar Mar 2021 #14

Mike 03

(16,616 posts)
1. Part of rejoining the global community means taking these stands
Sat Mar 20, 2021, 10:41 AM
Mar 2021

and I for one am thrilled we have an administration willing to speak out against them, in conjunction with our allies in Europe, Canada and Australia, even if we have serious problems here, because if nobody ever speaks out against human rights abuses because they have issues at home, the entire planet becomes a free-for-all where anything goes--which is exactly what China, Russia, Myanmar, Brazil, etc... want. They'd love western democracies not to take a stand on human rights abuses. Love it!

What you are saying here is exactly what Putin and President Xi tell us: We have no right. Neither does Germany or Canada or Australia or anybody else, then, according to Putin and Xi. They have a vested interested in us believing it, because it makes it easier for them to keep up their abuses.

Also, IIRC, a lot of Democrats were furious at Trump's unwillingness to speak out against human rights abuses especially in nations we sold weapons to.

Criticizing human rights abuses where we see them will make us better and more self-conscious about solving inequalities here.

We have huge challenges ahead. We need to be part of that community again to face those challenges. One of the responsibilities of being a member of that global community is speaking out against human rights abuses.

llashram

(6,265 posts)
3. moral leadership
Sat Mar 20, 2021, 11:25 AM
Mar 2021

begins right here, FIRST. Violence against POC, violence against women must be shown to be fought against here and fought tooth and nail. Yet for voting/human rights to be always challenged and in an unprecedented number of states since the defeat of trump and our gaining a slim majority in House and Senate shows the difficult and challenging work still needed.

We must, as WE fight the abuses of OUR human rights here at home, continue to not accept any fascist movements around the world or at least marginalize those rogue states which cheered EX-prs.trump and his racism and division based on hate of all nonwhite peoples and/or who are not republiKKKans filling his coffers or dying in obedience/faith/knee crawling reverence to him because of Covid-19.

Our rights abuses have waxed and waned for over 400 years in this country. Currently in a state of flux. While we have competent leadership again the hate and division in this country are as palpable as I felt in the 60's fighting for my human-civil-voting rights as a POC.

We are throwing stones at others while living in a glasshouse. Those others saying that we should clean up the broken shards that continue to grievously cut the fabric of our still diversifying culture here are not all wrong in saying so.

And as a vet whose family has HONORABLY and with distinction served in this country's military since the 9th and10th Calvary(coloured) and 24th and 25th Infantry(coloured) stand by every word here. When a vocal and rather large white minority of racists and bigots stops being the murderers of POC, whether African-American, Asian or Hispanic, then we stand above the rest with equality, justice and acceptance for all our citizens. Then other countries of this world can strive to emulate.



kcr

(15,313 posts)
7. People ARE fighting against it here
Sat Mar 20, 2021, 11:46 AM
Mar 2021

We will always be fighting it here. Which is why I find the argument that we don't have the moral ground to fight it elsewhere reprehensible. We have moral authority because we are human beings, and there are human beings suffering elsewhere. That is it. If the condition is we can only fight it when we've achieved perfection, then it will never happen. Is it the fact that Ted Cruz said it that makes it wrong? China IS horrible in its abuses. We're supposed to just ignore it? I'm sorry, but that's wrong.

llashram

(6,265 posts)
13. ted cruz
Sat Mar 20, 2021, 04:08 PM
Mar 2021

is useless. A human being with no moral centre. You can refer him to others. Please refrain from using him in any context with me. Yes, we are fighting hate and generation(s)-long racism here. And yes punishment is meted out in certain high profile cases. Not enough in my book seeing as the same awareness my parents and grandparents had about racist murderous Caucasians is the same I must have. Heather Heyer, Trayvon Martin et al would possibly disagree with your premise also. I do. Perfection? Unobtainable in our present state(s) of mind. True reckoning and accountability for the myriad racist acts against POC and communities of colour in this 21st century still have not been achieved.

You have your path follow it. I have mine. They may merge down the line when obvious hypocrisy is not apparent.

ripcord

(5,183 posts)
8. Since there is no country that is clean on human rights
Sat Mar 20, 2021, 11:49 AM
Mar 2021

I guess there is no one who can speak out against the abuses.

USAFRetired_Liberal

(4,167 posts)
9. I guess my OP should have been and could have been clearer
Sat Mar 20, 2021, 11:55 AM
Mar 2021

There is a difference between Biden (who supports BLM and knows that we have problems of our own) speaking out against China and Cruz and his ilk (who the article referenced and who acts like we don’t have problems here)....everything Cruz was saying in that article was hypocrisy

llashram

(6,265 posts)
16. you could not
Sat Mar 20, 2021, 04:58 PM
Mar 2021

have been clearer. Contrary opinions notwithstanding. There is no cure for hate just making sure the consequences are understood by the racist(s) and accountability turns into proper punishment for vicious violent offenders without regard to their race, culture, sex or creed.

USAFRetired_Liberal

(4,167 posts)
10. I guess my OP should have been and could have been clearer
Sat Mar 20, 2021, 11:55 AM
Mar 2021

There is a difference between Biden (who supports BLM and knows that we have problems of our own) speaking out against China and Cruz and his ilk (who the article referenced and who acts like we don’t have problems here)....everything Cruz was saying in that article was hypocrisy

ripcord

(5,183 posts)
11. There is plenty of hypocracy around
Sat Mar 20, 2021, 12:09 PM
Mar 2021

Remember we had people on this board quoting China's criticism of the U.S. on human rights no too long ago.

treestar

(82,383 posts)
14. It does
Sat Mar 20, 2021, 04:57 PM
Mar 2021

There is a functioning court system in which people have the right to counsel and have the government have to meet the burden of proof before they are convicted. The punishments are set forth by law and apply equally to anyone; there may be frustration about some of the politically powerful getting away with things, but that may come to pass that those people, including you know who, get their day in court and incur the penalty if the charge is proven against them.

There are countries where that is not the case; people are jailed at whim of the police; police don't have any rules on what they can do being challenged (like the fourth and fifth amendments); the courts do not respect rights to counsel and regarding evidence, people are jailed for insulting the head of state; where no food is provided in jail and your family has to bring it to you, where your length of imprisonment is not established by law.

The US may not be perfect, but it's not Saudi Arabia, where women can be executed by decision of their male relatives. It does not treat any minority as they are being treated in Myanmar or China. It has improved itself in that regard, too. Too many people forget that our constitutional system has worked to right injustices of that kind.

There are countries where the police can shoot people with impunity, or are told by the government to do so.

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