When did Bill Maher jump the shark for you?

[cab67]

Added on edit: Some have claimed that it's ok to watch someone with whom one disagrees. This is absolutely true, just as it's true that there is no human being alive with whom I never disagree. I disagree with President Biden on some things. I disagree with Charles Pierce from time to time. I disagree with my wife at times. We're grown-ups. That's allowed.

It's the nature of the things Maher says, not the mere fact that I disagree with them. Downplaying the importance of vaccines? That's not just wrong - it's flat-ass dangerous coming from someone with a loud platform and a large audience. His agreement with Irving Police about the home-made clock was racist; I doubt he'd have supported the police had the kid who made it been white. His fat-shaming can cause damage to people who really struggle with weight. He's not merely wrong - he's offensive.

----------------


Maher often says things I agree with, and he says them very forcefully, but I don't really pay much attention to him anymore.

His regrettable anti-vaccine position keeps me from taking him seriously, but that's not the reason I stopped watching his show.

I stopped watching because of the Ahmed Mohamed clock incident.

Mr. Mohamed was a 14-year-old kid in Irving, TX, who built a digital clock at home and brought it to school, where he showed it to his friends and teachers.

One of those teachers decided it looked like a bomb. That Mr. Mohamed is Muslim almost certainly contributed to that decision. As a result, Irving police were called, and they actually arrested him.

Long story short, his family ended up relocating to Qatar because of the bigotry they faced. It woudn't stop.


That the Irving police should have looked into it was understandable. But anyone with more than a handful of neurons in his or her head would know that a 14 year old who built a something that didn't look like a bomb wouldn't be showing it off to teachers if it was, in fact, a bomb.

Maher supported the cops in this case. It looked like a bomb. The kid is Muslim. That, to him, justified not merely looking into the matter, but actually putting the boy in cuffs.

At that point, I wrote Maher off as a racist. I haven't looked back.

How about others? When did you realize Maher is no friend to us?

[Beakybird]

1. Anti-vaxx shit.

[krawhitham]

88. +1

[mucifer]

2. Many many years ago when Stud Terkel was on his panel and he made fun of

him for being hard of hearing and elderly. Actually, there was also a conservative Black woman on the panel who called out Bill. That was on his show "Politically Incorrect" on ABC.

So there probably wasn't much time I did respect him.

[a kennedy]

7. Yup.....hated what he said to Studs Terkel......nuff said. No I do not care or watch Bill.....

🤮 🤮 🤮 🤮 🤮

[riverbendviewgal]

3. He seems to be on the RW side now

I don't watch him anymore. He lost his funny.

[theneworiginal]

72. RW operative disguised as an opinionated moderate.

He can crawl into a hole with Dennis Miller anytime now and fade into obscurity.

He's obnoxious. Don't know why anyone would watch him except to see what his guests might say when he's not talking over them.

[Me.]

4. Day 2

[Faux pas]

5. He

was getting iffy for me during the 2016 election. Tore the hump up pretty good thru the reign of terror. Really got on my bad side when he continually gave right wingers a effing platform. I finally turned him off forever by May of the 2020 campaign. He is and has always been a misogynist asshole. That is all.

[NCDem47]

6. Great thread.

I loved watching Bill even though he would say a wacky thing every now and then. COVID and the lockdown changed him in my opinion. He really seemed flummoxed without an audience. It also brought out a darker meanness in him on a host of issues. I was soooooo tired of his “Trump won’t leave” bit. He doesn’t seem happy with Dems in control. Always a misery with him. I started not caring if I saw another episode after him came back to the studio. The guests and panels have been consistently flat for me. I grew bored and stopped watching.

[Boomerproud]

13. He's gone full libertarian since Covid.

It's getting old.

[Crunchy Frog]

32. I love how he blames people for getting Covid because they don't take care of their immune systems

the way Himself does.

[gldstwmn]

57. The fat shaming is very unkind.

[Darwins_Retriever]

64. He doesn't accept Germ Theory

Sickness is not caused by germs, it is caused by poor care of your body.

[LakeArenal]

8. First time I watched him.

My best friend liked him a lot.

I never understood it. But even my friend isn’t very hot on him anymore.

[gratuitous]

9. Spy magazine had a featurette on him

Detailing some of his more swinish moments with women who worked on his show in the 1990s.

[Buckeye_Democrat]

10. It was many years ago, and I just got tired of the whole format.

There's a lot of that controversial stuff about him that I never knew about, back in the days of no-internet or slow-internet for me. And I never watched the kinds of TV shows that were likely to cover that kind of stuff in the past.

I mostly just got weary of his show inviting celebrity guests, inviting right-wing LIARS for the supposed sake of presenting "both sides", etc.

Then he'd sometimes have an actual expert on his show, such as an interesting scientist, but Maher would interrupt the person at the worst possible time for me. I'd think, "Shut up! I want to hear the rest of what they're saying right now!", but the distraction was successful and the topic changed to something more shallow.

[rurallib]

11. When I found out he was good buddies with Ann Coulter

[Laffy Kat]

12. Years ago due to the misogyny.

He's also not funny anymore and he laughs at his own jokes all through his monologue.

[Danmel]

52. Me too

He is really a pig.
(With apologies to pigs.)

[Laffy Kat]

54. Libertarian men can be the worst.nt

[Judi Lynn]

58. So glad you mentioned it. He has a vile attitude toward women. He won't evolve. n/t

[Laffy Kat]

59. No, he won't. nt

[regnaD kciN]

14. When DIDN'T he...?

Frankly, he wasn't even on my radar until about twenty years ago, and, at that point, it already seemed clear to me that he was a quasi-right-winger who was beloved by progressives only because he was iconoclastic.

[Miguelito Loveless]

15. Yep, it was when he said profiling was okay

He views himself as Libertarian, which is what hypocritical conservatives call themselves when they realize that being "conservative" these days is synonymous with being a fascist.

[OneGrassRoot]

17. Love that synopsis of libertarians. +1 n/t

[no_hypocrisy]

16. Before 9/11.

Maher had the Three Blond Harpies on his panel: Ann Coulter, Barbara Olson, and Laura Ingraham. It wasn't to give time and space to alternate viewpoints. Maher was like FOX, letting them spew their venom without trying much to correct them.

I wrote him off after that.

[Dem4Life1102]

18. In 2008

When he started calling Obama “chocolate jesus”.

[John1956PA]

19. During the 2000 presidential campaign when he endorsed Ralph Nader.

That endorsement occurred on his "Politically Incorrect" show on ABC. He delivered a scathing attack on George W. Bush, and he then stated, "Gore, you are just as bad." He concluded by endorsing Nader.

[Ritabert]

20. His fawning treatment of Ann Coulter

...and Milo Yiannopoulos.

[50 Shades Of Blue]

21. When I saw "Religulous" years ago and it was far from being the

skeptical, critical movie I had expected.

[Shermann]

47. The movie was good but not great

He chose too many sad sacks to debate who you ended up mostly feeling sorry for.

But maybe that was the point? Evenly matched debates between theists and atheists are few and far between. They are always lopsided like the movie.

[Harker]

22. I can't even remember. n/t

[CentralMass]

23. His comments about the Boston Marathon bombing were a reminder of what an asshole he is.

http://archive.boston.com/sports/blogs/thebuzz/2013/11/bill_mahar_to_boston_your_city_was_not_leveled_by_godzilla.html
"You know again it was a bad day. Three people died that’s terrible, more were maimed that’s horrible, but unfortunately that happens every day in car accidents and everything else,” Maher said. “I mean your city was not leveled by Godzilla.”

The bombing killed 3 and injured 264 including 17 who required limb amputation.

[bamagal62]

24. I stopped watching him ages ago.

He’s very disrespectful and he also grosses me out.

[happy feet]

25. Thanks for the question

Same for me. His biAs against Muslims and Islam at odds with not being religious.

[frazzled]

26. Since forever ... out and out sexist

[Crunchy Frog]

27. It was a gradual process for me, and I couldn't ID the exact point.

I recall really liking his show a lot, in the aftermath of FG's election. Lots of good guests, good discussions, and sharp, insicive commentary and humor.

Then at some point he seemed to become more interested in attacking liberalism and Democrats and the PC bogeyman than going after increasingly fascist RW Republicans. And he just kept getting less interesting and less funny, and eventually not funny at all to me.

I found the increasingly strident Islamophobia, and general bigotry against all religious people to be very offensive too (I'm not religious, just don't like mindless bigotry).

I gave him one final chance by watching the last two shows of last season, during the time in which T**** was trying to overturn the election, and after 1/6 attack, thinking that he MUST have something meaningful to say about all that shit, but he just didn't.

I've watched one time since when he had some guests who I really wanted to see, but turned it off just as he was starting New Rules. I used to love that segment, but it seems to have gone down the toilet with the rest of his show.

I understand that there are still people here who still really like his show, and I respect that. It's just that I don't find it watchable anymore.

[Martin Eden]

28. When he had Bannon on his show last year

Maher was totally unprepared to counter the rapid stream of lies and false narratives. He pretty much let Bannon get away with crap, said OK, then moved on.

After shouting at the television I knew I had enough of Bill, who wasn't as smart or as prepared as the rightwing politicos he invited on his show.

Unfortunately, my wife still watches his show and I'm in the room.

[UpInArms]

29. Years ago

when he continued to court Ann Coulter

[Polly Hennessey]

30. I think it was 2013.

Cannot remember anything specific. For me he was beginning to go off the rails and now I am hard pressed to tell you why I liked him the first place.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

31. He was always on the other side.

[Spider Jerusalem]

33. 14 or 15 years ago? Anti-vax nonsense, germ theory denialism, Islamophobia, etc.

It was obvious who he was a long time ago. He has not really changed.

[perfessor]

34. Long time ago I got sick and tired of his schtick.

You know, say something clever. Pause, tilt head, look at camera, wait for audience to catch on and start clapping. Jeezus.

[aocommunalpunch]

35. When he kept bringing on Coultergeist.

Stop fucking giving them a platform when they're not honest actors. Hardly best practices.

[BlueTsunami2018]

36. He hasn't for me.

There are times when I disagree with him but for the most part he’s still pretty much on point. I think a lot of people don’t like him because he doesn’t toe the strict lefty line on everything. This week’s show I thought was excellent and very well reasoned when discussing some of the more ridiculous purity tests people are put to these days.

I'll continue to watch, even if some of it is not in line with my own thinking.

[True Dough]

43. Me too

Sometimes he has me shaking my head, other times nodding in agreement. I can say the same about Michael Smerconish and Joe Rogan.

EDIT: I will add, I feel Maher's New Rules segment is pretty stale. I prefer listening to him interacting with guests.

[MrsCoffee]

69. No, we don't like him because he is a misogynistic pig who takes liberals to task while

bonding with the likes of Bannon and Yiannopoulus.

But I guess some people don't have problems with that.

[obamanut2012]

70. +1

[BlueTsunami2018]

73. I've never noticed him "bonding" with those guys.

I’ve seen those interviews. He pushes back on the bullshit and moves on when it’s just going to be a “yes, it is, no it’s not” pointless argument. And when someone makes a good point, he concedes it. You know, like an adult.

He’s not always right and I don’t always agree with him but I like the show and I’ll continue watching.

[MrsCoffee]

74. That's your opinion.

Opinions differ greatly. Like I said, some people are just ok with it.

https://www.cnn.com/2017/02/18/opinions/mahers-shameful-mainstreaming-of-yiannopoulos

So when Maher faced Yiannopoulos on Friday, did the HBO host press him on his view that college rape culture is a fiction and that women are often lying when they report being raped? Did Maher ask him about his anti-Semitic comment that “Jews run the media,” or did he ask why Yiannopoulos wore a Nazi Iron Cross when he was younger? Did Maher press him on his demonization of transgender people as, in essence, sexual predators?

No. Instead Maher actually bonded with the extremist author and lecturer on their shared anti-Muslim views. Yiannopoulos complimented Maher: “You’re sound on Islam unlike most people on your show.” To which Maher glowingly responded, “Yes, that’s true.” (Although when Maher remarked that all religions were “stupid and dangerous,” Yiannopoulos pushed back noting that, as a Catholic, he thinks his own faith is great.)

You know, there’s nothing nicer than seeing two people who appear to be on different ends of the political spectrum bond over how much they dislike Islam, right? And no question: Maher and Yiannopoulos do indeed appear to be in lockstep when it comes to Muslims. Yiannopoulos, writing that “America has a Muslim problem” has conflated all Muslims with ISIS and has even defended loathing of Muslims with the comment, “fear of Islam is entirely rational.”

Maher has echoed that very sentiment with his own comment about Islam that, “The more you know, the more you would be afraid.” And Maher was even praised by the alt-right Breitbart, where Yiannopoulos works as editor, for his remark in 2015, “I think that Islam is a problem.”

~~

In fact, when Yiannopoulos asserted that transgender people are “disproportionately involved” in committing acts of sexual assault – a lie that has been debunked by experts – Maher remained quiet. It was Wilmore who stepped up to challenge his “statistics.”

And when Yiannopoulos went on to say that being transgender was a “psychiatric disorder,” Maher kept his silence, while it was Wilmore who continued to press Yiannopoulos. The discussion between Wilmore and Yiannopoulos escalated until Wilmore told him “you can go f*** yourself,” drawing a round of applause from the studio audience – which had no doubt hoped Maher would’ve summoned half that much passionate pushback.

If Maher has made a strategic decision to court Yiannopoulos’ legion of white-supremacist followers, that’s his despicable choice.

But if he truly wants to regain progressive fans and the respect of his peers, then when he invites guests like Yiannopoulos, Maher should passionately press them on their hate, not mainstream it.

[Yavin4]

37. Maher is getting older, and as people age, their masks start to slip.

Happened to me just yesterday. A former friend that I've known since 1996 said something truly ugly and personal to me. My guess is that he's getting older, and I'm moving onto to other things with my life where he's literally still in the same place that he was in 1996.

Some people cannot handle getting older. It makes them meaner.

Also, my friend is a Bill Maher fan.

[Initech]

38. When he started making every single show about cancel culture.

We get it! It's totally fucking ridiculous at this point! The far greater problem is systematic racism and sexism and just flat out douchebag behavior. If you don't want to get canceled, don't do things that will put you in that position.

[Qutzupalotl]

39. I still like him.

I don't agree with everything he says, but he usually has an interesting take. His show is thought-provoking if not an ideological agreement-fest.

I think his criticisms of religion come from a shallow, perhaps deliberate, oversimplification and inability to see an inner meaning to allegorical narratives. Many, but not all, religious people do believe the literal stories of creation, so he does have a point; but the dismissal of religion entirely over the ignorance of a portion of believers is unwarranted, IMO.

[applegrove]

51. I wish he had talked about cancel culture and Kapernick. Or mentioned

the number of Fox News hosts whose shows have lost sponsors as perspective. For sure the left has purity tests that need to be called but it is also consequences for horrid behaviour and, if we stop getting outraged at Ron Johnsons or Tuckers, who are we? Virtue signalling is a meme started by the right wing.

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

40. Another thread to trash

[Hoyt]

41. I'll keep watching. Don't know anyone I agree with all the time,

especially an hour packed with a lot of opinions.

[True Dough]

45. I feel the same way, Hoyt

More in reply #43 in this thread.

[Raine]

49. I agree it doesn't bother me a bit to listen to people I disagree with. I actually

like to hear what they have to say because then I'm reassured about the side I'm on.

[cab67]

81. It's not that I disagree with him.

It's that he says things I find not only wrong, but offensive.

[stillcool]

42. long, long, time ago...

He's an insecure little boy looking for attention and kissing any ass to get it.

[Mr.Bill]

44. I never liked him even when he was a stand-up comic.

He just wasn't very good or funny. I'm more than a big fan of comedy. I've studied it. I have read a great deal on the subject.

It may be hard to notice because he doesn't look or sound like him, but his stand-up style even to this day when he does his monologue, is a shitty impression of Bob Hope, who I never cared for. The mannerisms, the stance, the phrasing, everything. All that's missing is the golf club.

[tonedevil]

55. I never realized it...

you are right he is Bob Hope. Mr. Hope's style of comedy was dead before he was.

[Shermann]

46. Anti-vaccine position? link?

This is news to me.

I'm not disagreeing, just asking for clarification. I cancelled HBO last year and haven't been able to follow him much. But this seems out of character.

[Crunchy Frog]

60. I can't give you a link, but I've absolutely seen it on his show.

I'm more tolerant of that position than most people on here, except when comes to Covid vaccines, so maybe not as offended, but I've absolutely heard it from him.

[Shermann]

68. I couldn't find a link either nt

[Shermann]

78. This is from 2015

He says point blank that he's not an anti-vaxxer.

He is, however, admittedly an "anti-flu shot guy". He is suspicious of the pharmaceutical industry and he does make hedged statements regarding unforeseen risks of pharmaceuticals in general (including vaccines).

None of it rises to the level of being anti-science or an anti-vaxxer. It's pretty tame stuff from 5 years ago (I've found nothing regarding CV-19 vaccines).

[cab67]

82. on the other hand.....

https://www.forbes.com/sites/ninashapiro/2019/11/03/bill-maher-supports-vaccine-autism-connection/?sh=301031cf723d

[Shermann]

85. There really isn't much there

I've already stated that he is suspicious of the pharmaceutical industry.

His position is basically the default position that vaccines may have side-effects like any other drug.

To be an anti-vaxxer, you would have to take it one step further and assert that the potential risks outweigh the potential benefits. His statements don't rise anywhere near that level, and he has clearly stated that that is not his position.

He is clearly more concerned with the free and open discussion of the matter being "cancelled". Cancel-culture is one of his signature issues. The anti-vax movement is not.

[Shermann]

86. Also did you notice how the interview was spun?

It went from "Bill Maher Welcomes Anti-Vaxxer Jay Gordon To Real Time" on Crooks and Liars (accurate) to "Bill Maher Supports Vaccine-Autism Connection" on Forbes (misleading).

He supports being allowed to have the conversation.

I will say that right-wingers often use the "we just want to have a conversation" talking point to merely delay, disrupt, and deny. But I don't believe that is what Maher is doing here.

[JHB]

48. I like a lot of his "New Rules" stuff, but...

...he's an asshole, and one should never lose sight of that. He's one of those comedians who blames the audience when a joke he thought was funny falls flat.

As for when he jumped the shark beyond that particular item... I'm not sure which century it was, so fair to say it was a while ago.

[Xavier Breath]

84. I still watch and will continue to do so

but that is my biggest complaint with him: blaming the audience when a joke bombs. Any time a joke bombs, or does not elicit the response he believes it deserves, he reflexively blames the audience for being too sensitive and/or pc. Nearly every time it's due to the joke not being that funny. Carson knew how to deftly handle that sort of situation, But Maher just gets defensive.

[msfiddlestix]

50. I didn't have a tv when Political Correct was on the air. But then I got cable and happened chance

on the show. I tried to get into because "everybody" thought it was so good. And I was trying to fully grasp the PC meme at the time. But I thought the show was rather moronic, and it wasn't funny. I didn't know the blond woman was who I'd learn later was Ann Coulter who I also didn't find entertaining.

Later with Real Time I thought I'd give him another try. I'd see him on various cable news channels opining on the War on Iraq. I agreed with his analysis and so I got sucked in to watching. Sometimes I thought it was funny enough, but sort of sick, but mostly I thought he was beyond just crass. He's an arrogant asshole and he thinks being an arrogant asshole is cool.

it's been since those days really for me. Can't stand the character whether it's fake or real. Just like I couldn't stand The Apprentice. and didn't understand the notion that it was popular.


We live in a really fucked up society. Elsewise that shit wouldn't ever make on tv and nobody would possibly make money on it.

[LessAspin]

53. Blowhards gotta Blow Hard

Never have been a fan of the Carnival Barker comics/commentators (Joe Rogan, Alex Jones, Tim Allen, Trump, Maher...).

Although I guess it shows what I know? They all have pretty big followings. Maher even has a devoted cult following here. All that said .. Bill Maher has been pretty up front about who he is..

OCTOBER 2, 2019
The Phony Liberalism of Bill Maher
Despite everything he does and says, media still call HBO host a 'liberal'

...

Indeed, when asked, he has been explicit about his ideology: “I’m a libertarian,” he said to Rolling Stone (4/13/11). “I would be a Republican if they would. Which means that I like the Barry Goldwater Republican Party, even the Reagan Republican Party.” His choice in naming the two figures whose mission was to upend the liberal order, often through appeals to racism and white nationalism, is telling.

...

Yet corporate media continue to describe him as a liberal. Newsweek (3/16/19) did so in a story about him criticizing the Democratic Party, the Washington Times (9/13/19) did the same when it reported on his recent claim that the new “far-left” Democrats’ ideas are a “cancer” and they look “crazier” than Trump to him, while Fox News (5/11/19) reminded its readers twice that Maher was a liberal in a story about him praising Trump’s handling of the economy.

And therein lies the utility for the media in persisting to describe the self-described libertarian as a liberal: It allows media to formulate “he’s a liberal but” stories. “Conservative Criticizes Democrats” is not going to drive any clicks, whereas “Liberal Praises Trump” does. It is a classic example of the “Man Bites Dog” phenomenon.

Ultimately, Maher has built up an impressive following and continues to espouse snarky elitist hot takes weekly for HBO, earning an estimated $10 million per year doing so. Call him a racist, a bigot or an astute businessman; just don’t call him a liberal.

https://fair.org/home/the-phony-liberalism-of-bill-maher/

https://upload.democraticunderground.com/1016240318

[jml510]

56. I still watch him,

but it's irritating when he complains so much about "cancel culture" and so-called political correctness. He complains about that almost every episode these days. He almost sounds like a RWer when it comes to that.

[tonedevil]

61. What he sounds like is what he is. /nt

[betsuni]

63. Comedians complain about political correctness all the time.

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/jerry-seinfeld-political-correctness-will-800912

Sarah Silverman on cancel culture:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/100215230724

[Dr. Strange]

79. Yep, comedians have been complaining about it for a while.

Last edited Mon Mar 22, 2021, 08:47 PM - Edit history (1)

George Carlin was complaining about it in the 90s:

[betsuni]

92. Carlin was first with a lot of things!

[betsuni]

62. Nope. He works to get Democrats elected. Never said idiotic things like "both sides" or that

the "Democratic establishment" are corrupt elites rigging primaries, "corporate Democrats" who "will stop at nothing" to defeat "progressives" who are "taking on" the establishment. The truly stupid populist conspiracy crap that divides Democrats and helps Republicans.

Don't know why some people are determined to discourage others from watching the show. It's constant. Why? Liberals can listen/read things and make up their own minds. Think for yourselves.

[BannonsLiver]

77. My issue with Bill has been the Democrats in disarray narrative he sometimes gets stuck on.

He also used outdated polling info or worst case scenario polling in the run up to the election.

That being said I’m 100 percent with him on the new Twitter obsession with certain types of people viewing art from different eras through the lens of today’s standards. He did a great segment on that this last week with movie warnings. The one about the Wizard of Oz and the Graduate were really good.

[Piasladic]

65. When he said breastfeeding mothers were repulsive. -nt

[Rustyeye77]

66. I still like him.

He still is outspoken and mostly democratic.

Even when he moves to center , hes sometimes make a point.

[obamanut2012]

67. Anti-Muslim, misogynistic, transphobic Libertarian

Whose BFF is Ann Coulter.

I have loathed him for over a decade. He isn't a liberal or progressive in any real way, and I have never understood why the Left likes him.

[luckone]

71. I have always found him repulsive since you're asking.

[BannonsLiver]

75. I stopped watching for a while

The responses in the thread make me want to watch again.

[LetMyPeopleVote]

76. A long time ago

I stopped watching this show a long time ago

[Paladin]

80. I walked away from Maher several years ago.

I got tired of his shit talk about liberals. I've never regretted my decision---Maher is on the same ugly trajectory as Dennis Miller; the sooner he's gone, the better.

[myccrider]

83. Years ago.

His meanness overwhelmed his humor for me sometime in the last decade. It wasn’t one particular thing, it was the accumulation of his mean-spirited digs at people’s physical imperfections, whining about women, fat shaming, growing idiocy about vaccines and politics, and, and, and.

My husband still watches him, which is why I’m even aware of how far he’s fallen. I throw verbal spitballs while I’m in the room. Mostly, I don’t stick around.

[forthemiddle]

87. We hate Fox News because of its bias

Yet we want to condemn Bill Maher for presenting both sides?

I am constantly baffled by threads on DU that say let’s stop watching xyz because they don’t parrot my beliefs, yet we would love for the Government to outlaw Fox News, or the “dearly departed” Rush Limbaugh because alternate views do so much harm.

My thought? Maher is very liberal in many views, but libertarian in others. Let’s present both sides and make up our minds from that.

[cab67]

91. I don't believe I claimed people should't watch his show.

Only that I washed my own hands of him when he became offensive, and I know that others have also done so.


And you know what? Sometimes, there really is only one side. There's no legitimate debate about vaccines, and pretending otherwise for the sake of "hearing both sides" is foolish.

[kcr]

89. For me he was never within proximity of the shark

I have never understood the appeal.