Sinema hit with negative approval in Arizona; Kelly +11

[wellst0nev0ter]

I guess people didn't take too kindly to her thumbs-down curtsy

Link to tweet

[mcar]

1. Cannot figure out who she thinks she's appealing to

[aocommunalpunch]

5. Likely the donors.

They keep the lights on.

[mcar]

26. Obviously not the same donors as Kelly

[NonPC]

43. Sinema is a Ghost

She has done very little here in Arizona. I get her "newsletter" email a month, and it has yet to have any significant news that we haven't already heard about. She doesn't appear to be interested in sponsoring any legislation. So my only conclusion is that she is focused on banking deep pocket contributors for her next re-election. I hope the AZ Democratic party comes up with someone else to run against her, as I think she could flip to Republican if the money is right.

[Celerity]

53. I have no doubt that she could flip, BUT the QMAGAts will not

vote en masse for an open bisexual and an agnostic/atheist.

Too much lipstick on her lips that wasn't from her own lips originally and not enough baby white power jeebus in her heart for the nazi rube gawd patrol.

QMAGAts only like breeding (present or past or at least trying) buybull bangers for their women pols. Crazed gunhumping and a room temp IQ are deffo massive pluses as well.

[temporary311]

65. Doubt she would survive a Republican primary.

Not after voting to impeach individual 1 twice.

[Cha]

59. Exactly.. that was always

my question. With Senator Kelly being a Solid Dem in his voting.. what is she doing & why?!

[mcar]

61. Right? Are her donors really that different?

[Irish_Dem]

68. Obviously not voters. So who does she serve?

[mcar]

69. That's the question, isn't it?

[Irish_Dem]

71. Asking the following question usually gives some answers:

Who benefits?

[mcar]

72. Yes.

[wellst0nev0ter]

2. More proof that centrist triangulating does not work

[USAFRetired_Liberal]

4. Exactly

You turn off your base and the Republicans still don’t like you....never liked this “moderate” strategy

[hedda_foil]

7. More proof that centrist triangulating means appealing to big donors not voters.

It worked for Bill Clinton and that's it.

[WA-03 Democrat]

14. If she is a centrist

then I am the queen of England.

As a Biden Democrat and admitted centrist, she needs to follow the lead. Side shows are not need.

Mark Kelly is a centrist, I think this is deeper than identification but I guess it is mentally helpful to assign blame.

Oh and without the black centrist democratic party members in Georgia we would have an Authoritative King Trump.

[wellst0nev0ter]

18. Good

Go tell Sinema that she's not even being a centrist. This is no time to be distracted by misplaced sensibilities.

[WA-03 Democrat]

23. Making the blind see is not a power

we Centrist posses. I hope the polling numbers will. I have called and wrote every Democratic Senator that is not for taking power of our majority. DiFi changed, I hope you take your own advice and do so as well. Pointing fingers is not my bag.

[wellst0nev0ter]

27. We know who are the obstructionists in of the Democratic majority

And it is certainly not the left.

Apply pressure where it's actually useful.

[WA-03 Democrat]

30. Sorry I am getting in your way of trashing Democrats

Please list all the bad Democrats so we have them all covered dear leader

[wellst0nev0ter]

42. I repeat, this is not the time to be precious about applying pressure

Especially on Democrats who choose to be obstructionists.

We've already seen the movie where obstructionists have their way: congressional losses in 2010 and 2012. Nobody wants a repeat of that.

[LanternWaste]

37. Ten bucks says you fail to see the irony in your having expressed that...

"This is no time to be distracted by misplaced sensibilities..."

[wellst0nev0ter]

44. What are you talking about?

We are seeing in real time how Sinema deliberately distancing herself from the progressive agenda is costing her votes.

There isn't about sensitivities anymore. This is about being practical.

[smirkymonkey]

64. +1000

Especially if you are an athiest bisexual. That is not going to go over well with the right wingers.

[hlthe2b]

3. Her stunt will remain in the minds of all who follow politics reasonably closely.

She really dug a deep hole with that one.

[Qutzupalotl]

6. Should she get a primary challenger?

Serious question. Normally that puts the party at a disadvantage, but given her theatrics, she seems vulnerable. There is real anger over her backtracking on MW. She has a few months to redeem herself. If she simply didn't want to cross the parliamentarian and use reconciliation, maybe she'll hang on.

[temporary311]

9. She should absolutely be primaried.

Her performance with that vote will likely be a centerpiece of the ads against her.

[AZProgressive]

10. 2024 is a long way from now

Demographic trends would favor the Democrats especially in Arizona. A minimum wage increase is more popular than Sinema in Arizona so her stunts aren't helping her keep her seat. Kelly who is up for reelection in 2022 is wisely not trying to be like a Manchin or a Sinema.

[Tree Lady]

28. I hate when senators act like

Jerks knowing they have many years left. I hope they can primary her but she knows once you win name recognition usually gets you to win again especially if the final year you kiss up to everyone.

[Hortensis]

8. AZ's minimum wage is $12.15, and she held on that in part based on AZ polls.

Senators have to appeal to entire states, you know. They don't get elected by little blue districts, and AZ has a whole bunch of conservatives.

My guess is that her biggest problem is that she's female, and openly bisexual. Kelly is a straight white man. a hero married to a heroine.

Being female is still a serious disadvantage. Look at how many on this forum in 2020 rushed to embrace men trying to primary female incumbents, some of whom were freshmen just elected in 2018, the supposed "year of the women." And we're Democrats.

[AZProgressive]

11. More people in Arizona voted for a minimum wage increase than they voted for Sinema

Arizona also voted to tax the rich and legalizing cannabis.

These Manchin arguments don't work for Sinema.

[AZSkiffyGeek]

12. Ultimately, the vote never should have come up

Bernie put forth a bill that had no chance of passing, would be struck from the final reconciliation anyway, and caught a couple centrist Democrats voting against it.
Then the Twitter meme-ers jumped all over her poor attempt at being John McCain, ignoring everything she said leading up to the vote.
I'm not excusing her performance, but she never should have had to make that vote, and I hold that on Bernie.

[AZProgressive]

17. I'm more upset at Sinema than I am with Sanders

I actually feel like Bernie Sanders an out of state Senator represents my interests more than Sinema.

I agree with this article

Call Kyrsten Sinema’s Bluff

https://newrepublic.com/article/161367/kyrsten-sinema-minimum-wage

I thank Bernie for fighting for a minimum wage increase and if Conservative Democrats vote against it that is their problem.

[Hortensis]

15. They got their minimum wage increase. This is now.

I hadn't heard that Manchin is suffering from misogyny and anti-LGTBQ bias.

Btw, AZProgressive, speaking OF the $7.25 MW, perhaps you know why Senator Bernie Sanders REFUSED to increase that to, say, AZ's $12.15? Might he have been able to get Sinema on board? Manchin was at $11 as a counter to $15, but Sanders refused to negotiate.

How do you feel about people still being paid $7.25 per hour today and tomorrow, and likely the rest of the year, after the bill that could have transformed their lives has been signed into law? Are AZ MW workers being overpaid?

[AZProgressive]

19. I did Day Labor in Arizona when the minimum wage was a lot lower

I don't have any problems with minimum wage increase in general. A higher percentage of Arizonans voted for a minimum wage increase than they voted for Sinema so she isn't helping her own reelection.

[Hortensis]

25. So, how do you feel about Sanders scuttling the national MW increase?

How I feel is this: That's not progressivism in action, that's betrayal and sabotage of millions.

Frankly, I wonder why people aren't considering that just maybe almost every other Democratic senator, including Sinema, may be more progressive in action than Sanders. All those people earning too little to live on are not serving their children Sanders' failure for dinner.

Just what is important, AzP? Commitment to factionalism and a factional leader? Or achieving progressive goals?

For me it's goals.

[AZProgressive]

29. They did good adding as much as possible in the initial bill

I like how they started the negotiation. Even though the $15 minimum wage wasn't included and they had to scale some other things back to bring on moderate support but it still ended up being a pretty good bill.


The US is about to start a massive experiment in progressive government
Analysis by Zachary B. Wolf, CNN

(CNN)You may have read a lot over the weekend about how progressives were angry that the Covid relief bill that's about to be sent to President Joe Biden's desk was pared back to get moderate senators on board.

Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders, Mr. Progressive, wants to disabuse you of that notion. In an interview with CNN's Anderson Cooper on Monday night, he was glowing about the new stimulus bill, not just for what it does to fund vaccines, schools and local government operations, but also for the larger progressive wins contained in it -- despite the major loss of his $15 minimum wage proposal.

"Anderson, in my view, this is the most significant legislation for working people that has been passed in decades," Sanders said, adding to Cooper that he's still got plans to pass the wage hike that was stripped from the bill.

(Snip)

That's why Sanders' praise of the bill is very much in line with what White House press secretary Jen Psaki said, describing it as "one of the most consequential and most progressive pieces of legislation in American history."

https://www.cnn.com/2021/03/09/politics/what-matters-march-9/index.html

[Hortensis]

32. We've had progressive government since inception, and Democrats are

the party of the progressive liberals who've made every progressive advance then and since. That "experiment" is pure nonsense. You've lived your entire life with the blessings of liberal progressivsm brought to you by Democrats.

And that bill would have been passed as it was if Sanders wasn't involved in any way; except that there would have been discussion of including a MW increase that could be passed right now -- in spite of the parliamentarian's opinion. An agreed-upon raise could have been passed by another vote.

We just don't know how long it will be before we have another chance. Sometimes it takes years, and millions of people need help very badly. Sanders should have tried. You don't even know why he didn't.

[Hortensis]

39. THIS is progressivism in action:

“President Biden’s economic advisers are preparing to recommend spending as much as $3 trillion on a sweeping set of efforts aimed at boosting the economy, reducing carbon emissions and narrowing economic inequality, beginning with a giant infrastructure plan that may be financed in part through tax increases on corporations and the rich,” the New York Times reports.

“After months of internal debate, Mr. Biden’s advisers are expected to present a proposal to the president this week that recommends carving his economic agenda into separate legislative pieces, rather than trying to push a mammoth package through Congress.”

They won't get all of it passed, but they won't abandon it and they will get most.

REAL progressives making progress happen.

[AZSkiffyGeek]

20. It doesn't matter what it was increased to - the Parliamentarian said no to reconciliation

But Bernie had to throw a fit and try anyway. Sinema's statements were clear - she supported an increase, just not part of reconciliation. She was also only one of 8 Democrats who voted no - yet she's the poster child for the "You're against a living wage!" crowd. The ones who photoshop her into unflattering pictures and stalk her on Twitter. And then get pissed when she doesn't engage them.

She may have fucked her reelection chances, but she's getting a far greater pile-on than she deserves - because Rose Twitter is always more concerned with attacking Democrats than Republicans.

[kcr]

33. Her statement may have been clear

But her action was louder. Her thumbs-down dance has clearly cost her. If her statement was so sincere, she should have stuck with her clear statement.

[AZSkiffyGeek]

34. I agree it has cost her

My point is that it never should have come to that point. Bernie put up an amendment that couldn't pass and would be stripped regardless. Why? All he did was damage Democrats.

[kcr]

36. I'm not a big Bernie fan

But he didn't force her to do that thumbs down flounce.

[AZSkiffyGeek]

38. Yeah - that's really where she fucked up

Not the vote, the wannabe McCain performance.

[dsc]

40. I have two problems with her

one that is unique to her. She acted like a clown while voting down the minimum wage. It was a disgusting display of narcissism. My second problem is her quite frankly insane devotion to the filibuster which will cost her her seat thanks to an inability to pass a VRA. No hispanic or native american will be able to vote in her state without it.

[former9thward]

56. What is your evidence that "no Hispanic or native American will be able to vote"

in AZ without a new VRA? There was not a new VRA in 2020 and Hispanics and NA people voted in AZ.

[vsrazdem]

48. FYI. The proposed bill started at 11.00/hr and gradually increased over 5 years.

[Hortensis]

52. Yes. Slow, but AZ's progressives did what they had to to make it HAPPEN

in a mostly red state. Those included some progressive conservatives also making it HAPPEN.

What they didn't do was blow hot air about themselves and pretend high principles as they completely failed their duty to help MW earners. REAL progressivism creates REAL progress.

[AZProgressive]

54. Arizona voted for it as a ballot measure

One thing I like is we can vote for some policies and not worry about a legislature. We got independent redistricting as voters approved that through a ballot measure. It is also the same way Arizona legalized cannabis in the 2020 elections.

[Hortensis]

57. I'm from California originally, where the political parties are heavily

involved in ballot measures. As in GA, legislators frequently put measures on the ballot rather than vote on them themselves. The parties also have other ways to influence ballot measures.

I remember a powerful Republican operative in CA, a backroom type, who was famous for saying he could get anything passed as a referendum. Because his record said it was appallingly true. He could also defeat almost anything using the same techniques.

[USAFRetired_Liberal]

13. Elections in states like Arizona are all about base turnout

You don’t appease the conservatives hoping for their votes when the aren’t going to vote for you anyway while alienating the voters who would support you...what happens is that your voters stay home because they aren’t enthused for you while the Republicans voters show up to vote against you, and independents vote against you too because they don’t see any tangible results,Arizona isn’t West Virginia

[AZSkiffyGeek]

16. Sinema didn't win by activating the base

She won by casting herself as the new McCain and promising to compromise with Republicans.

[wellst0nev0ter]

21. Mark Kelly won by a wider margin

By going left of Sinema.

[AZSkiffyGeek]

22. Was he left of Sinema?

He voted for the futile minimum wage increase, but he's voted with her otherwise. He also campaigned as a moderate who would work for all Arizonans. And his campaign was pointedly called out for not answering questions on left-wing positions.

[wellst0nev0ter]

41. At this point, Kelly is clearly to the left of Sinema

For example Kelly, who is married to Gabby Giffords, has pushed for hard for gun control.

And the minimum wage vote leaves no question where they lie politically.

[Hortensis]

67. Yes, there's no doubt at all Kelly's left of Sinema. He's been in too short

a time and too inactive in the metrics tracked by govtrack.us to be given an ideology score, and his record on business and environmental issues isn't developed, but his positions in general show he's clearly a liberal Democrat, just not yet how he compares to his liberal colleagues. He ran on bipartisanship, like her, and currently rates very high at working with his colleagues.

Govtrack currently evaluates her as the most conservative-leaning Democrat. Her environmental record is execrable for a Democrat. Her approval rating was soaring just a year ago, but now both parties are down on her. Her socially liberal/economically conservative mix is very common among voters, though, especially women and the indies whose support kept her predecessors in office.

[Kalistos]

31. Do you have a link to those Arizona polls about the minimum wage?

I would like to see.
By the way, her excuse is not the same excuse you were making for her. Her excuse was that she only voted against the minimum wage increase because she didn't want it to be part of the covid bill

[AZSkiffyGeek]

35. There were statements when the state voters passed the increase

She said she supported it, but has also been attacked as lying about that.

[vsrazdem]

49. You don't need any polls. The voters passed a minumum wage

that started at 11 or 11.50 an hour and going up to 12.00 in 2020, now it is 12.15, and increases by cost of living adjustments from here on in every year.

[quakerboy]

66. "little blue districts" elected 50 senators and a president.

I reside in a state where senators actually do get elected by a couple little blue districts. Our half dozen little blue districts have actually given Democrats a clean sweep of statewide offices here. Come to think of it, if you look at the numerous blue/red maps showing the vote by county nation wide.. im pretty sure that virtually all democrats get elected by "little blue districts".

The polls I have seen indicate that approximately 60% of voters support $15.. and when i do a quick google that appears to apply to Arizona specific polls as well as nationally. IE.. a greater portion of Arizona voters support $15 than supported either Kelly or Sinema. That would seem to invalidate any argument that this vote was based on the will of arizona voters.

But you are right, being female and openly bisexual is often going to be a disadvantage, particularly if you are attempting to court the right. They aren't comfortable with either, and likely wont vote for you no matter what you do to try and woo them. Seems like leaning into policy that will solidify the votes of the people who got you there, rather than reaching out to those who will reject you regardless of what you do is maybe a better strategy.

And looking at some numbers, Sinema won 50/48 and Kelly won 51/49. Same spread. If the posted polling is accurate.. it would seem that there is some difference between the two that was not present during their respective elections.

[Kalistos]

24. Thumb down right back at her

Last edited Mon Mar 22, 2021, 06:00 PM - Edit history (1)

From Arizona.

[BradAllison]

45. Might be the wrong finger. (n/m)

[monkeyman1]

46. left ,right, middle.

left , right ,middle -who gives a rat's ass. federal government is supposed to work for the American people . right now we can't fire the people that work for us . they don't pull there weight & should be gone . got to wait for election. bull shit ! your on the job & not doing it , you toast . known fact there is so much dead weight in congress right now . they are embezzling a lot of our money . lobbying should be outlawed . just a legal way for bribery to get stuff you wanted to go to you. the people of this country are stock holder's & we need a complete audit of both party's . 100 %. not that hard !

[ancianita]

55. hm... you sound pissed off

I hear you about the public generally not giving a rat's ass, even if congressional members use that language, too. But think through the auditing part, cuz it's never been done.

[monkeyman1]

58. you right

mainly just all this republican b.s. the last 4 yrs & had a belly full of the trump tribe .

[ancianita]

60. so the way I think it through is

Short of crime and 60-vote impeachment, public voting is how we fire people that don't do the job for us.

What's the other way to do it? Recalls? Depends on the state. Do AZ and WV have those laws?

If 100% of auditing is not that hard, then who would do an audit of both parties, and what would be audited?
Who and how would the dark money get audited?

Is there law anywhere that says this can be done? Say, campaign finance law?

I've never heard of this country as run by stockholders... even stockholders can't just up and call a board meeting to fire people. Gov and business are just different.

I feel you and am frustrated, too. And you must know that Schumer and Clyburn are inside out over this. But demands, threats and denial are what the other side do; our side does respect, patience and fair play and phone calls.

Here are their phone numbers. Give 'em hell. Maybe get back and say how it went.

Sinema DC [phone]; in AZ [phone]
Manchin DC 202-224-3954 , 202-228-0002
WV Fairmont: 304-368-0567, 304-368-0198
WV Eastern Panhandle: 304-264-4626, 304-262-3039
WV Charleson: 304-342-5855, 304-343-7144

[monkeyman1]

62. thank's needed that .

sometimes mouth & brain's don't engage at the same frequency . nice to see different aspect on thing's sometimes .

[ancianita]

63. hey

it's what we do for each other on DU... lord knows the last four years still hang like a dark shadow and I feel an old familiar ptsd make me lose it, too

[StevenJoseph]

47. A lot of us AZ Dems did not find it funny at all.

She better get on the ball quick. We'd hate to primary a sitting Senator, but if someone we like better comes along in her next primary, who knows?

[vsrazdem]

50. Right there with you, and I let her office know that.

[budkin]

73. She sucks

Hoping she gets primaried. We can definitely win there.