General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsIdea: Put an excessively high tax on conventional ammo to discourage mass killings
but not on non-lethal ammo like rubber bullets. The tax would strongly inhibit the use of guns as lethal weapons outside of the military. Hunters might be granted a very modest amount of ammo tax-free. Why? The new conservative Supreme Court will never allow banning of guns, yet taxes are certainly allowed and can be used to discourage gun use, which is probably the only way to stop mass killings as all sociopaths or psychopaths can't be identified in advance or even prevented from having weapons.
Jerry2144
(2,127 posts)As black powder and supplies for making your own ammo. Any hollow point, armor piercing, or anti-personnel round should be extremely taxed at the federal level. Those bullets are not good for hunting since they destroy so much meat. And the bullets that are useful for hunting ( including shotgun shells) can be taxed at a lower rate.
NutmegYankee
(16,204 posts)Modern cartridges for guns use "Smokeless powder" which is nitrocellulose based.
Black powder is used for some niche hunting and by reenactment groups like mine who do Revolutionary and Civil war events.
Jerry2144
(2,127 posts)That was why I put the and other supplies for making your own ammo. The tax should be based upon how useful or practical the ammo is for hunting. Shot gun shells with fine bird shot or deer slugs have low tax. Standard 30.06 hunting rounds low tax. 7.62 mm, hollow point or jacketed rounds that shred meat should be taxed at very high levels, few rounds per box, limits on the amount of boxes you can purchase, and prohibiting possession of untaxed rounds should all be part of this plan.
I would also like to see a competency test for owning firearms. Can you pass a basic safety test annually? And one of those questions that should be an automatic failure is, Did Joe Biden legitimately win the election for President in 2020?
NutmegYankee
(16,204 posts)Much of the rest of the Regiment is standard infantry firing black powder weapons appropriate to the time period (percussion cap for Civil War and flintlock for Rev War). We cannot afford some obscene tax on black powder nor is such a tax anything other than evil considering that it isn't used for mass shootings or really any shootings today.
FBaggins
(26,783 posts)Three thoughts
If someone intended to shoot people, even 1,000% tax on bullets doesn't make them too expensive
But it would make it too expensive for practice - which makes "well regulated" not much of a thing
Lastly - yes... that would make it unconstitutional. Think of a $10,000 state tax on each abortion. Could the proponents claim that they weren't effectively banning the procedure for most people? "Taxes are certainly allowed"?
andym
(5,446 posts)it would be close to banning ammo, without actually banning it. The constitutionality of taxes has never been in question. In fact it a way to make the militia, "well regulated". Could abortions be discouraged by taxation? I don't know-- it sounds possible actually. The only unconstitutional taxes I am aware of besides cases of jurisdictional conflicts were poll taxes to discourage voting, so there might be a problem if the justices use that as their exemplar, but it would certainly be debatable.
As for the perpetrators-- it wouldn't be that easy to buy the requisite amount of ammo, as there would be so few buyers, and there might be additional informal scrutiny of such folks.
WhiskeyGrinder
(22,497 posts)andym
(5,446 posts)Because they are not "bans?" $3.50 a gram of marijuana in NC is not excessive?
andym
(5,446 posts)WhiskeyGrinder
(22,497 posts)money to cops.
hack89
(39,171 posts)Taxes are constitutional except when they are used as a back door means to restrict civil liberties. Poll taxes and excessive taxes on newsprint/ ink are in the case law. Your ammo tax would fall into the same category and would not be allowed.
NYC Liberal
(20,138 posts)Ocelot II
(115,963 posts)It would be a sales tax on goods, a form of taxation which is reserved to the states.
andym
(5,446 posts)I didn't realize that. All those proposals to replace the income tax with a sales tax are illegal? What about excise taxes on alcohol? How are they allowed? Aren't excise taxes by the feds generally allowed?
Ocelot II
(115,963 posts)so the tax is paid only indirectly by consumers (if the business chooses to add the tax to the total cost of the goods), and it is therefore not a sales tax. So hypothetically, an excise tax could be imposed on ammunition, as with alcohol and cigarettes, but such an extremely high excise tax would probably considered confiscatory and for that reason might not hold up in court.
GregariousGroundhog
(7,528 posts)If Congress wanted to impose a penny per bullet tax to fund gun safety programs, they could probably do it. If they wanted to impose a $10,000 per bullet tax, the Supreme Court would probably call it out on what it is - an indirect ban on firearms.
Ocelot II
(115,963 posts)An excise tax is imposed on the business, not the consumer. An excise tax could hypothetically be imposed on ammunition but if it's as high as suggested it might not survive in court if it's deemed confiscatory.
nycbos
(6,042 posts)sarisataka
(18,883 posts)several years ago there was a case where an extra tax was imposed on ink and paper. It was challenged by the newspaper under the First Amendment and the Supreme Court agreed with the paper. A guaranteed right cannot be limited through taxation.
While guns and ammo can certainly be taxed like other products, an excessive tax to discourage ownership will fail miserably. And likely have a backlash of more guns and ammo being sold.
People need ammo to practice so they can more safely use their fire arms.
Archae
(46,369 posts)Excessive taxes on ammo, will NOT stop criminals or nutcases.
sanatanadharma
(3,748 posts)As far as I know, Federal excise taxes are constitutional.
Tax bullets! Use the funds for gun violence health care.
The idea that nothing can be done is either a gun-uncontrol advocate's defensive argument or a denial of reality; slavery was ended, women were given the vote, alcohol was outlawed, alcohol prohibition also ended.
The Constitution has changed and must change, except in the morally vacuous minds of those who accept limitless violence in defense of bullets.
andym
(5,446 posts)so they can be increased, the question is just how much according to t the other posters here taxes cannot be used to effectively ban something to be bought.
leftstreet
(36,118 posts)possibly more effective deterrent
CoopersDad
(2,199 posts)Taxing ammo is not the way to solve violent crime.
Zero tolerance on gun crime and addressing the root causes of violence at the societal and individual levels are necessary.
ruet
(10,040 posts)That's about as logical as believing the death penalty reduces homicide rates.
/snark
andym
(5,446 posts)MadLinguist
(792 posts)Still a good idea