Does Antifa actually exist or is it a figment of the disturbed Republican psyche?

[milestogo]

They seem to get "credit" for a lot of things other people do.

[Hugh_Lebowski]

1. No, nothing like what they imagine in their disturbed psyche ... exists (nt)

[LeftInTX]

2. It exists, but it is not what Republicans are making it out to be

[brush]

8. It's a concept, a mindset of being anti-fascist.

There's not antifa national organization with officers and etc. It's a non-centralize set of like-minded people who are determined to fight back against alt-right, winger militias and other cretins.

You know, to stop fascist from taking over the country.

[Tommy Carcetti]

27. Being against fascism is the default, common sense position. No need for silly names.

At this point, trying to "own" the Antifa label is pointless and counterproductive.

The name itself serves no function and can get tossed in the scrap heap along with other poorly rhetorically designed slogans like "Defund the police."

[brush]

34. Agreed on "defund the police", IMO though "antifa" is different...

It's become a catch phase for FOX, republicans, megats to throw around to scare the right and to blame for all the resistance for their fascist policies. Remember they tried to blame Jan. 6 on antifa, and as recently as a few days ago the republican cretin senator Ron Johnson just bloviated how he would've been scared if antifa or BLM were behind the Capitol insurrection when it was actual the right wing militias the Proud Boys and Oath Keepers.

So they hurl the term around to damage the left and our protestors but I will continue to try to get folks here on DU especially, to understand what it is is really a mindset of being against fascism so they don't buy into the right wing memes that it's the left's equivalent of their right paramilitary thugs.

They also get lumped into anarchist activity, like the white girl who was setting fires in the Atlanta protests are the cop shot the black guy who fell asleep in the fast food drive-thru.

[David__77]

3. Thankfully "it" exists.

Really it is more a “they” than an “it.” I’m thankful for their contributions.

[Mme. Defarge]

5. I am so not thankful

for the destruction they have caused in my city here on the Left Coast. They have been disavowed by our Black Lives Matter leaders for hijacking peaceful protests and have harmed local businesses trying to survive a pandemic.

[Sympthsical]

6. Yeah, DU's general "No such thing!" line drives me crazy

I live in the Bay Area. They absolutely exist. They absolutely cause destruction. And they absolutely have a strong authoritarian streak in them that brokers no disagreement.

I was tired of them years ago.

People who think they're super awesome haven't had them trash their town for years and years, again and again.

[Mme. Defarge]

7. Greetings from the former Anarchist Jurisdiction

of Portland.

[stopdiggin]

10. kinda' glad to hear you say that

there are people with a legitimate political message -- and then there are the punks who's raison d'etre revolves almost wholly around 'mixing it up' in the streets. They're kind of the left's version of skinheads -- and don't really deserve much in the way of sympathy, support -- or recognition.

[brush]

38. Sounds like anarchists, not the same thing.

[Sympthsical]

45. I know who they are and what they've called themselves

I knew who they were long before Twitter or DU or a lot of places had ever heard of them.

And they were here before Trump. They were tearing up the place long before Trump. Antifa, Black Bloc, By Any Means Necessary. They're all troublesome.

And they are not anti-fascist. "We don't like this speaker at UC Berkeley!" Let's set the campus on fire and smash up down town Berkeley! Let's physically threaten anyone who disagrees with us or films our violence! That's not anti-fascist. That's fascist.

I can call myself a giraffe. Doesn't make me one.

You know who's never been a problem in my experience? BLM. But once Antifa and that whole lot get involved, problems start. That's why some BLM leaders have distanced themselves from them. They know they'll taint the perception of the movement. It's a damn shame, too, because BLM is too important to have these outside groups glom onto it and bring their special brand of chaos.

I have lived experience with this stuff. I've walked over the glass of smashed storefronts on my way to work countless times over the years. I've walked through Oakland wondering if entire neighborhoods being boarded up was just going to be the permanent aesthetic.

I am very aware of what they called themselves from Day One. And no one on the internet is going to tell me otherwise because Twitter told them it's not true.

[brush]

47. O-k-a-a-a-y. Ya might wanna add the winger groups who show up at BLM protests too...

causing much damage (see umbrella man)

[Crunchy Frog]

46. The line that drives me craziest is the "my grandpappy was antifa because he faught in WWII".

As if anyone who has ever opposed or fought fascism in any way or under any circumstances are synonymous with the people you describe. And try to encourage everyone here to apply that moniker to themselves.

Also, the idea that getting into street brawls with members of RW groups is an effective way of fighting against fascism.

[brush]

9. You've bought into the right wing talking points.

Most likely the violence that happened at BLM protests was started right wingers who latched onto peaceful demonstrations just to give BLM a bad name that FOX and gullible media and people repeat over and over and over.

Do you remember "umbrella man" in the Minneapolis demonstrations, the guy in all black with face mostly covered (but you could see he was white), who systemically walked down a whole city block and broke big plate glass windows of an AutoZone story?

That tactic was repeated over and over.

See Post 8 also so you have a better idea of what's going on.

[LeftInTX]

11. I met Antifa here in town before they became "famous"

They had face coverings and carried two flags.
They've been active in the US for about 25 years.

[stopdiggin]

14. there have been people brawling with the Proud Boys

(and other such ilk) for years. Much longer than BLM has been around. The idea that people who've witnessed this 'don't really know what is going on' -- is a little insulting.

Has 'antifa' been used by the right and the media as a boogie-man? No question. Does that mean that Antifa is a myth? Not hardly.

[brush]

15. Proud Boys and Oath Keepers are organized militia groups with several of their...

Last edited Wed Mar 24, 2021, 02:53 AM - Edit history (1)

members arrested after the Jan. 6 insurrection. I have yet to see any announcement of arrests of people ID'd as antifa members.

Why not? Because it's a word hurled around by republicans, FOX and others on the right to scare people and make the left look bad. There were republican lies even that antifa was responsible for the Jan. 6 insurrection. Remember that?

Don't fall into that. It's a concept, a mindset, not any organized group. There are people who try to combat fascism, which is what the word antifa stands for.

One thing to remember, they're on our side, trying to preserve democracy from fascists.

[Dr. Strange]

43. I'm sure there are some fine people on both sides.

But some of the antifa crowd suck.

One thing to remember, they're on our side, trying to preserve democracy from fascists.

Color me skeptical: https://www.phillymag.com/news/2018/12/13/marines-assaulted-philadelphia-keenan-massey-antifa/

[brush]

44. Don't confuse anarchist who love to infiltrate non-violent protests and create violence and...

destruction with so-called antifa, a catch phrase thrown around by the right to scare voters. Actually, most of us here should be anti-facists, which is what antifa stands for.

It's a bogeyman word to scare whites.

[stopdiggin]

49. the people I'm describing are NOT on my side

(or your side if you have any type of positive political agenda). And they are also NOT any sort of right wing false flag operation (although there's no doubt such things exist). I'm sorry if you've convinced yourself that the phenomenon (whether 'organized' with laminated membership cards and secret handshakes or not) does not exist -- but real life experience says that they do. And a bunch of progressive 'johnny come latelys' re-labeling themselves as "antifa" doesn't change who and what has been running under that banner for a while now.

[brush]

50. Again, it's mostly become a bogeyman term thrown out by FOX and others...

to scare voters. And anarchists are often called antifa as well. It just means anti-facist. And I consider anti-fascist allies. Your opinion may vary.

[Mme. Defarge]

31. That's a realistic assessment, IMO.

[WHITT]

18. Exactly

Most likely the violence that happened at BLM protests was started right wingers who latched onto peaceful demonstrations just to give BLM a bad name that FOX and gullible media and people repeat over and over and over.

Not most likely, definitely. More than 98% of BLM protests have been shown to be peaceful. The vast overwhelming majority of violence has been committed by White Nationalists infiltrating protests. There have been multiple cases in multiple states of them being intercepted with their vehicles full of molotov cocktails, bricks, crowbars, and lengths of pipe. It was a white woman who torched the McDonald's during the BLM protest of an unarmed black guy being murdered by the police. The white guy you mentioned breaking large glass windows, and many other additional examples.

It has the smell of a Roger Stone-like operation to discredit BLM.

[tenderfoot]

20. You got that right

eom

[Mme. Defarge]

53. Please provide me with the sources

for your certainty.

[brush]

54. Once you provide me with yours of the antifa members who...

the republicans claim started the insurrection on Jan. 6.

[Mme. Defarge]

55. ???

Why do you think that I made that claim?

[brush]

56. Try this. It's a concept.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=15262743

[OAITW r.2.0]

4. Most definitely, the latter.

In no real sense does Anti-Fa exist. A bunch of dudes that will mix it up with the Proud Boys? Probably.

[Mike Niendorff]

13. THIS

There is no organization or organized group called "antifa".

It does not exist.

What Fox is calling "antifa" started out in Portland about 4 years ago as a direct response to organized fascist/neo-nazi activity in that city -- including assaults and at least one murder. People decided to fight back, and they started confronting those nazi groups violently when necessary.

The people involved called themselves "anti-fascist", which seems to me to be pretty accurate.

The right-wing decided this was a great "scary leftists" image, but they couldn't very well rile people up against "anti-fascism" -- thus, the "antifa" bogeyman was born.


MDN

[Scrivener7]

22. And only in Portland and California.

[maxsolomon]

33. Hey now, give WA some credit.

I've seen Antifa flags with my own eyes.

[Scrivener7]

36. YEs! Sorry!

[Raine]

12. I'm sure I've heard claims from people saying they were part of Antifa nt

[Skittles]

16. they consider anyone against fascism (specifically, republicans) "antifa"

that's all it is

[womanofthehills]

42. They used to have a presence on social media

Don’t know about now. There were Antifa groups on Facebook 4 yrs ago. Probably kicked off by now.

[Skittles]

48. WE would be considered "antifa"

"antifa" is ANYONE who hates fascism

[brush]

52. This. 100%. Why are DUers arguing about this. republicans...

Last edited Wed Mar 24, 2021, 05:58 PM - Edit history (1)

have taken to using the word as as a talking point to scare voters, but we should know better. There is no left equivalent of the Oath Keepers and Proud boy militias.

[Skittles]

57. absolutely correct

I know repuke propaganda is effective because I often see how it works on even so-called "progressives".

[Tender hopper]

17. Anti fascists often get blamed for the disruptions and distractions initiated by the anarchists

[JHB]

19. Both. There's real antifa, and then there's Fantasy Bogeyman Antifa

The real version is discussed upthread.

The Republicans' Fantasy Bogeyman Antifa is their new New Black Panther Party: a scary horde that is much larger and better organized than the real thing, and will act as an army of occupation, grab their guns, take all their hard-earned possessions, and put them in gulags.

[scarytomcat]

21. no need to capitalize it

It is not an organization but state of mind like conservative

[Scrivener7]

23. Apparently there is a group in Portland. Most of the rest

is right wing false flag bullshit.

[Dem4Life1102]

24. Here are the anti-fascist leaders

[Mad_Machine76]

25. We should be asking why Republicans are NOT Antifa

Antifa is not an organization but it- broadly speaking- is about ideologically being anti-fascist/anti-NAZI. Like the country was during WW2 when we were fighting literal Nazis. Republicans have made it into a far left boogeyman to deflect blame on.

[Tommy Carcetti]

26. Not in the sense of being a legitimate, cohesive organization.

There is the concept of being anti-fascist, but that doesn't need a silly name like "Antifa". That's just common sense. Most normal minded people are against fascism.

And no, your father or grandfather who served in the US Army during World War II was not "Antifa" either. They were just serving their country. That's all. You might think it's cute to call them "Antifa" but that's not an accurate way of describing them.

As for the strange group of people who seemed intent on wrecking a certain amount of chaos surrounding otherwise peaceful demonstrations, I see them as falling into mainly one of three categories:

1. Anarchists who love creating chaos and mayhem for the sake of chaos and mayhem, and see these types of protests as a convenient excuse to do so.

2. Right wing infiltrators who seem keen on painting as violent and negative a face as possible on otherwise peaceful protests against racism and fascism.

3. People who legitimately think they are somehow doing the work of fighting against racism and fascism by breaking shit.

Of the group, the third category is the far least common in my opinion.

But there's no centralized, legitimate Antifa organization in the US dedicated to fighting against fascism and racism. No hierarchy, no infrastructure, no dues, nothing like that. Groups such as the Proud Boys and the KKK have far more of a sense of organization that what people on the right insist "Antifa" is.

It's mainly a ghost of a movement that does little to actually help with the fight against racism in this country, whether that be by accident or design.

[Initech]

28. Antifa is to the Proud Boys what the Washington Generals are to the Harlem Globetrotters.

Like wherever one goes, the other is sure to follow. And their sole purpose for existing is to get beat up by the other guys and for the other guys to show off their skills.

[Scrivener7]

32. PERFECT ANALOGY!!!!

[eShirl]

29. mostly a straw boogeyman at least in the U.S.

[LetMyPeopleVote]

30. AntiFa is a GOP scapegoat

[ismnotwasm]

35. They are at every protest I've ever been too

At the first women’s March, they hung around the fringes and didn’t start any shit.

[Goodheart]

37. It's "Satan" all over again.

[maxsolomon]

39. Antifa is what Black Bloc and Direct Action people are when the Fascists show up.

They're the anarchist kids who bike around Olympia and Tacoma distributing food and needles to the homeless. And then smashing Starbucks windows, making us Olds wince and disavow them.

When the Fascists come into town to intimidate Liberals, they show up. The BLM protests that morphed into confrontations with the cops in Portland and Seattle weren't Antifa per se. Were they there? Yes. But they weren't alone. CHAZ was BLM, too. Mostly, even.

Michael Reinoehl was Antifa; he was almost 50. Watch the Vice interview with him, shot the night before Bill Barr had him summarily executed outside his apartment. Outside of Fascist thugs, he was never a threat to anyone.

Most importantly, Antifa does not have School Bus armies planning to invade Podunk.

[Caliman73]

40. I have shared this before. It is long, but pretty thorough.

[milestogo]

41. Thank you.

[Mr.Bill]

51. It's crowning achievement has been

to get republicans to admit they are against fighting fascism. Fucking brilliant.