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WhiskeyGrinder

(22,433 posts)
Wed Mar 24, 2021, 09:15 AM Mar 2021

Saying Never Again to the Violence in Atlanta Means Saying No to More Policing

https://newrepublic.com/article/161792/atlanta-shooter-sex-worker-red-canary-song

This is the uncomfortable truth yet to be faced after the shootings: Massage businesses have long been subject to eliminationist sentiments, which manifest in community vigilantism, in police raids, and in airless policy debates disconnected from the reality of the women who do massage work. The extraordinary violence of last week, which took eight lives, including women workers’, is continuous with that status quo, one that would rather eradicate massage businesses than regard the workers there as worthy of rights, of dignity, of belonging.

And that mindset—that shared politics of elimination—is a product of the anti-Asian racism, misogyny, and xenophobia that communities are now mobilizing against across the United States. But their work can only ever get part of the way there in confronting those interlocking oppressions if that work does not also confront the oppression of people who engage in, or are believed to engage in, sex work and massage work, and repair the ways they have historically been excluded from community responses to violence. Sometimes they have even been blamed. This time may point to a new way.

There is no one cause here, just as there is no one reason someone may work at or be a customer at a massage business like those that the confessed shooter reportedly told investigators he targeted. If we take at face value that his motives are what law enforcement report, where did he get the idea that massage businesses were to blame for his “sex addiction,” a phrase with no consistent meaning? It’s an idea that could have come from his faith community or the evangelical “treatment” center he turned to. It could have come from self-described anti-trafficking groups like Street Grace. It could have come from growing up in a country that has long regarded all Asian immigrant women as sexual temptations for men, a racist idea woven into American anti-immigration law, into popular culture, and that has now been reinforced in statements shared by police.

Police are now, as they always are, being turned to for safety—and it is massage workers themselves who are among the loudest voices to challenge that, to demand something more. “We want people to step up,” Yves Tong Nguyen, an organizer with Red Canary Song, a grassroots collective of Asian and migrant massage workers, told me a few days after the shootings. They are one of the very few groups in the U.S. that provide outreach and mutual aid to massage workers, and in which massage workers are organizing for their own safety and rights. The violence in Atlanta put them in the national spotlight. If we want to address and prevent such violence, Red Canary Song members said in a statement, we cannot look to the police. “We understand the pain that motivates our Asian and Asian-American community members’ call for increased policing, but we nevertheless stand against it.”
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Saying Never Again to the Violence in Atlanta Means Saying No to More Policing (Original Post) WhiskeyGrinder Mar 2021 OP
Mayor Bottoms said those establishments weren't even on the APD radar. Treefrog Mar 2021 #1
I can believe that. Haggard Celine Mar 2021 #2
Lol no. Cops love raiding massage parlors because it's easy work, and some will leverage their power WhiskeyGrinder Mar 2021 #3
Well that's pretty disgusting. Haggard Celine Mar 2021 #5
They made arrests, but it's unclear to me whether there were convictions. WhiskeyGrinder Mar 2021 #6
Yeah, it's all theater. Haggard Celine Mar 2021 #7
"This shit happens so often that they might as well let organized crime run everything." WhiskeyGrinder Mar 2021 #9
+1, I even mentioned in another thread I've never seen straight whore houses where I lived uponit7771 Mar 2021 #8
What? WhiskeyGrinder Mar 2021 #4
APD is different from Cherokee county IINM ... uponit7771 Mar 2021 #10
The person I was responding to said the mayor was referring to APD. WhiskeyGrinder Mar 2021 #11
Right, previously but weren't on APD radar at the time of the terrorist attack they were on CC radar uponit7771 Mar 2021 #12
Sorry to run this into the ground. I figured the original comment from the mayor meant that WhiskeyGrinder Mar 2021 #13
+1, I didn't know this place had been raided multiple times before. Why would CC allow for this uponit7771 Mar 2021 #14
"Why would CC allow for this place to exist after the 3rd raid ?!" WhiskeyGrinder Mar 2021 #15
Ah, thx for this thought check ... "raided" doesn't mean guilty. Then in that case it looks like ... uponit7771 Mar 2021 #16
"We ... REALLY ... need some police accountability in the US." WhiskeyGrinder Mar 2021 #17
+1, reading article with new perspective ... couldn't agree more !!! uponit7771 Mar 2021 #18

Haggard Celine

(16,856 posts)
2. I can believe that.
Wed Mar 24, 2021, 09:37 AM
Mar 2021

Of all things the APD have to worry about, shady massage parlors aren't high on the list. If anything illegal happens in those places, it's usually small, victimless crimes, unless there's trafficking going on, and that's more of a federal issue. If that guy hadn't killed all of those people, those paces would probably have gone on for many more years without any incident.

WhiskeyGrinder

(22,433 posts)
3. Lol no. Cops love raiding massage parlors because it's easy work, and some will leverage their power
Wed Mar 24, 2021, 09:42 AM
Mar 2021

to assault the people working there.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2021/03/19/asian-massage-business-women-atlanta/

One of the businesses attacked by the shooter, Gold Spa, has previously been the subject of prostitution stings by the Atlanta Police Department that led to the arrests of employees, according to police reports The Washington Post obtained through a public records request.

During a two-year period from 2011 though 2013, police conducted seven undercover stings at Gold Spa, making a total of 10 arrests, according to the reports. The arrests were all of women. The reports often listed their home addresses as the address of Gold Spa.

Police received complaints about alleged prostitution at the addresses of Gold Spa and Aromatherapy Spa, another business where the shootings took place, as recently as 2019, according to Officer Steve Avery of the department’s public affairs unit.

Young’s Asian Massage, located just north of Atlanta, has been under investigation by the Cherokee County Sheriff’s Office since 2019, according to a record keeper for the county, who declined to give any details about the case.

Haggard Celine

(16,856 posts)
5. Well that's pretty disgusting.
Wed Mar 24, 2021, 09:50 AM
Mar 2021

If so many of the women at these massage parlors were prostitutes, why did they allow these whorehouses to remain open? Because they made too much money from periodically arresting people, apparently. I doubt the police's involvement will be mentioned much, however. No matter where you go, the police act with near-impunity.

WhiskeyGrinder

(22,433 posts)
6. They made arrests, but it's unclear to me whether there were convictions.
Wed Mar 24, 2021, 09:54 AM
Mar 2021

Which, again, is routine when it comes to cops raiding massage parlors. They get the credit for "cleaning up the neighborhood," while the difficult work of proving prostitution is left to the guys in suits.

Haggard Celine

(16,856 posts)
7. Yeah, it's all theater.
Wed Mar 24, 2021, 10:05 AM
Mar 2021

I'll bet things would be different if they were arresting the men who were the customers of these women. There would be a public outcry for tolerance of these places, no doubt.

This shit happens over and over again so often that they might as well let organized crime run everything. The mafia could shake down the massage parlor for protection money and then give the police their cut. No need for anyone to be raided or arrests made. You just want to throw up your hands and say fuck it all.

WhiskeyGrinder

(22,433 posts)
9. "This shit happens so often that they might as well let organized crime run everything."
Wed Mar 24, 2021, 10:14 AM
Mar 2021

Or we could take a page from the article I posted and listen to actual sex workers about what they would like their work to look like. No mobs, no cops.

uponit7771

(90,364 posts)
8. +1, I even mentioned in another thread I've never seen straight whore houses where I lived
Wed Mar 24, 2021, 10:13 AM
Mar 2021

... a person literally linked more massage spas that were Asian run in black areas.

Some people can't disconnect Asia Massage spas with whore houses, I'm blown away.

WhiskeyGrinder

(22,433 posts)
4. What?
Wed Mar 24, 2021, 09:42 AM
Mar 2021
https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2021/03/19/asian-massage-business-women-atlanta/

One of the businesses attacked by the shooter, Gold Spa, has previously been the subject of prostitution stings by the Atlanta Police Department that led to the arrests of employees, according to police reports The Washington Post obtained through a public records request.

During a two-year period from 2011 though 2013, police conducted seven undercover stings at Gold Spa, making a total of 10 arrests, according to the reports. The arrests were all of women. The reports often listed their home addresses as the address of Gold Spa.

Police received complaints about alleged prostitution at the addresses of Gold Spa and Aromatherapy Spa, another business where the shootings took place, as recently as 2019, according to Officer Steve Avery of the department’s public affairs unit.

Young’s Asian Massage, located just north of Atlanta, has been under investigation by the Cherokee County Sheriff’s Office since 2019, according to a record keeper for the county, who declined to give any details about the case.

uponit7771

(90,364 posts)
10. APD is different from Cherokee county IINM ...
Wed Mar 24, 2021, 10:17 AM
Mar 2021

I got questions on why these places are allowed to exist after the 3rd raid though, that's a whole other subject that's separate from why this incel turned terrorist.

WhiskeyGrinder

(22,433 posts)
11. The person I was responding to said the mayor was referring to APD.
Wed Mar 24, 2021, 10:19 AM
Mar 2021
One of the businesses attacked by the shooter, Gold Spa, has previously been the subject of prostitution stings by the Atlanta Police Department that led to the arrests of employees, according to police reports The Washington Post obtained through a public records request.

uponit7771

(90,364 posts)
12. Right, previously but weren't on APD radar at the time of the terrorist attack they were on CC radar
Wed Mar 24, 2021, 10:20 AM
Mar 2021

... at the time and I still wonder why they're allowed to exist after the 3rd raid.

Something aint right here but that's separate from this incels terrorism

WhiskeyGrinder

(22,433 posts)
13. Sorry to run this into the ground. I figured the original comment from the mayor meant that
Wed Mar 24, 2021, 10:26 AM
Mar 2021

the city hadn't been aware of any illegal activity at the businesses, ever, when clearly the city had been.

uponit7771

(90,364 posts)
14. +1, I didn't know this place had been raided multiple times before. Why would CC allow for this
Wed Mar 24, 2021, 10:30 AM
Mar 2021

... place to exist after the 3rd raid ?!

Some are using information like this to justify the incel's terrorism or even to prove their right about an issue vs being progressive about slave trafficking

WhiskeyGrinder

(22,433 posts)
15. "Why would CC allow for this place to exist after the 3rd raid ?!"
Wed Mar 24, 2021, 10:33 AM
Mar 2021

Because it's easy to raid these businesses, and harder to prove that they should be shut down. As I said in another subthread, the raids are great for making it look like cops are doing something, but the cases bog down in the legal procedures.

uponit7771

(90,364 posts)
16. Ah, thx for this thought check ... "raided" doesn't mean guilty. Then in that case it looks like ...
Wed Mar 24, 2021, 10:35 AM
Mar 2021

... these places are being harassed by the police.

We ... REALLY ... need some police accountability in the US.

When the US was 100 million people maybe everyone knew everyone but now we're the 3rd largest country in the world population wise (behind China and India) and we can't afford to have police doing WTF they want to because no one knows them any longer and they have no connection with the communities they're serving.

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