DU Engineers

[malaise]

Let's have your solutions to moving that massive cargo ship

[underpants]

1. Blocks of ice and balloons.

It will be a mystery after that.

No just posting to check back in

[TheBlackAdder]

49. Exlax or fiber helps to move most blockages, especially big dumps like that.

[RKP5637]

2. Trump wants to nuke it!!!

[soothsayer]

3. Here's some helpful things to reference

https://www.bbc.com/news/56523659

[malaise]

4. Thanks for this link

[Wicked Blue]

5. Vast quantities of mayonnaise, perhaps? nt

[EndlessWire]

21. Hahaha!!

Maybe that's the Motley Fools stock tip!

[Totally Tunsie]

78. Maybe MIRACLE Whip would be a better choice?

[4Q2u2]

6. Giant Checkbook

It is going to cost someone Big Bucks.

Dredge and off load as much weight as possible.

[RKP5637]

7. I would unload it if they haven't and then pull like hell with an army of tugs at each end

in opposite directions fore and aft, basically twisting it out.

[csziggy]

11. Problem with trying to unload it is they need huge cranes to move those containers.

Super-post-Panamax cranes in the Port of Rotterdam. These cranes have an outreach of 25 rows of containers.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Container_crane

Or a big cargo helicopter. Hey! Maybe it could be an exercise for military helicopters to off load the containers?

A U.S. Army CH-47 departs a landing zone in 2014 after unloading soldiers.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_CH-47_Chinook

The Russians have bigger copters that can carry larger loads - I don't know how heavy those containers are.

[fescuerescue]

30. A Chinook can BARELY lift an empty container.

In ideal weather conditions. (it can lift 24,000 lbs). And is in cold weather.

Empty containers weight 20,000. And they aren't empty.

The Russians have one that can lift them though. They were used at Chernobyl.


ON edit - The Chinooks can't lift them at all. The 24,000 lbs includes the weight of the chopper.

Maximum lift is 16,000 lbs. So they can even lift empty ones.

[csziggy]

50. Yeah - as I said, I don't know the weight of the containers

I'm not sure if even the Russian ones could lift the full containers - it would depend on what's in them.

In other words, not a practical consideration, especially since there is no infrastructure to move the containers once taken off the ship.

[A HERETIC I AM]

59. 40 footers weigh around 8600 pounds, empty

Typically max gross upwards of 70,000 LBS

You can zoom in on the weights on this one;

[ProfessorGAC]

69. In Most States Here, The Gross Weight...

...includes the tractor. (Just adding some extra info.)
I've been in facilities where a 47,000 tanker or isotank was scheduled to be shipped, but the driver showed up with a luxury sleeper cab.
Once they were one piece, they exceeded the interstate limit. So, they to take it back to loading rack, have a tote or 2 (2,000-4,000 pounds) taken off so the entire rig stayed just below the limit, with the driver in the cab. (The product then needs to be restested, biocontamination checked, and QA has to agree to return it to bulk storage. It's a big pain in Tue neck for the logistics folks.)
In one case, the scalehouse person thought to ask about fuel.
Guy said he was going to stop at a truck stop nearby and fill up. They took the full 4k out!
Not sure that's the legal limit in other countries but it is here. In Illinois, all roads use the same weight limit as the federal interstate system, so all roads are the same unless posted lower. Other states might treat their state roads differently. I'm not sure.
While the limits are the same, my experiences are all for bulk liquids, not cargo boxes. But 72k is 72k.

[A HERETIC I AM]

70. 5 axles, 80,000 pounds gross

(Not to tell you anything you already know, Professor, just for general knowledge)

That’s the national standard for 18 wheelers in the US and Canada, anyway.

12,000 pounds on the steer axle
34,000 on the drive axles (the tandem set)
34,000 on the trailer tandems

There can be variations, for instance if your trailer tandems are spread out, you can have 40,000 on the trailer, but the total for the entire truck is still 80K

https://www.heavyhaul.net/tandem-vs-spread-axles-the-pros-and-cons/

Having a container loaded past its limits is not something I would think is unusual.

[Klaralven]

72. Except in Michigan - up to 164,000 pounds on 11 axles is allowed

Yes Michigan’s 164,000-pound gross weight limit is more than double the federal standard of 80,000 pounds. But what you may not know is that a truck carrying 164,000 pounds in the state of Michigan must have 11 axles, each one of those axles cannot carry more than 13,000 pounds to operate in Michigan.

Read More: Michigan Roads, Truck Weights And The Science | https://wbckfm.com/michigan-roads-truck-weights-and-the-science/

[A HERETIC I AM]

81. Michigan is not the only state to allow such combinations

Here’s a multi-axle double in South Dakota;






I used to live in the Detroit area and have seen those multi axle units before. They are used in Michigan and Ohio because of the steel industry, as I’m sure you know. Coils and plate can get heavy! Not to mention all the other commodities carried by them.


I’m currently in Washington State, running down into Oregon on I-5 every day.

I see 9 and 10 axle rigs all the time, which can gross out at well over 100K, and they are common in the inter mountain west. Trailers with three sets of duals, a set of singles in front of those and another set in the rear, pulled by 5 axle, 16 wheel tractors.

[ProfessorGAC]

75. My Error

For some reason I had 72k stuck in my head.
But, I did recall correctly that it includes the tractor.
Thanks for correcting my mistake!
On Edit: My error was even dumber. The exit off the interstate north of town is a state road that runs through a conservation area. Runs from the interstate to the state highway that parallels the expressway. At both ends there's a sign that says "Weight Limit 40 Tons".
Duh, on me! I've probably seen those signs a thousand times!

[A HERETIC I AM]

82. LOL...no biggie.

I’ve always known you for being a stickler for accuracy.

I’m going to let you slide on this one!

[TheBlackAdder]

51. A nice Cargo Eagle will do the trick.

.



.

[RKP5637]

63. Yes, specs look good and has a great speed! 27,942.4 miles per second!

Specifications
Length
76 ft. (23.16 m)
Width
30.2 ft. (9.2 m)
Height
5.05 ft. (1.54 m)
Loaded weight
238 tons
Propulsion
Sublight engine
4 nuclear fusion rockets
4 chemical fuel landing rockets
strap-on booster units
Performance
Sublight Speed
(Standard) 0.15c (15% speed of light / 27,942.4 miles per second / 44,969 km/s)
(With Spine Booster) 0.8c (80% speed of light / 149,026 mi/s / 239,834 km/s)
Range
16 billion miles (25.74 billion km) [with extra fuel reserves]
Capacity
Armament
Fixed laser under the nose module.
Extendable turret in front of centre section.[N 1]
Passengers
(Type A only) 8
(Types C & E) 4
(Type D) 4 passengers or 2 beds
Additional Info
Affiliation
International Lunar Commission
Other Info
Fuelled with Compressed Hydrogen.
Standard flight endurance is 96 hours.
First flight occured on 3rd August, 1992
Appearance(s)
All Episodes except Force of Life, The Troubled Spirit, One Moment of Humanity, Journey to Where, Dorzak and The Lambda Factor

[Xavier Breath]

66. I had an Eagle model when I was a kid.

Plastic, couple of feet long. It had a winch IIRC, so you may be on to something here.

[dweller]

8. HELIUM !

At least everyone will sound funny


✌🏻

[NutmegYankee]

9. Honestly, they have the right approach

Dredge the bow/stern and lighten the ship as much as possible. It's going to take time, but something that massive and that grounded was always going to take time to free.

[ripcord]

10. I'm a licensed pyrotechnician

I think we all know my solution.

[csziggy]

13. Something like this?

That'd clear the canal and widen it!

[malaise]

68. And then some

[underpants]

24. 💥 that's what I'm talking about!!!

[hunter]

52. Project Plowshare. Place hydrogen bomb under the canal...

Ship sinks to bottom of hole, sand and water flood in, done.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Plowshare

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Chagan

[Shermann]

12. There is no stuck ship. Fake news to distract from caravans! nt

[Brother Buzz]

14. I don't know shit, but give me a pair of Caterpillar D8's and a pair of mother-of-all truck wreckers

and my boys would have that sucker loose in no time. Oh, and I'd need modified fireboat to wash a boatload of sand out of the way first

This ain't rocket surgery

[USALiberal]

48. Lol, ok! Nt

[malaise]

53. ROFL

I hear you

[Brother Buzz]

62. A big ass water pump is a critical element of my plan, and well, fireboats got them in spades

I helped dislodge a 85 foot, 100 year old tug boat mired in a silted in bay, and they used fire hoses to free it. When I say I helped, I was twelve years old, but it's amazing when a 'life experience' can be dredged up in ones mind and put to application, but there it is.

[HAB911]

15. Icebreaker used as a tug

unfortunately, they are all in the Arctic?

[OAITW r.2.0]

16. Lash steel cables to the ship's stern and secure to a big ass oil tanker (full) and pull like hell.

What could go wrong?

[BootinUp]

17. Call MacGyver!

[Doc Sportello]

18. KY

[RKP5637]

22. LOL, I had thought about saying it, but you said it! Yep!!! And then post video on pornhub.

[Doc Sportello]

23. LOL back at ya!

For the pornhub reference.

[Towlie]

19. Set up big rocket motors on the far side of the Moon to move it closer and increase the tide level.

 
←

[FSogol]

20. What did they do in the cartoon Star Blazers to make that aircraft carrier fly into space?

[JHB]

45. Battleship

Macross (a.k.a. Robotech) was the one with space-going carriers.

Yeah, Space Battleship Yamato (which was Starblazers over here) had fighters, but it wasn't a full-on carrier.

[FSogol]

55. So, you're saying it wouldn't work for a cargo ship?

That's a shame.

[JHB]

83. Hey, one shot of the wave motion gun will solve the whole thing

Though the one ship might not fare too well.

[malaise]

76. I heard a while ago that

they have accepted US help in moving the ship

[EndlessWire]

25. You guys are so funny!

I think they have to offload the cargo, no matter what. The article said that they were concerned about the ship breaking in half due to uneven weight of the cargo containers. I think they have uneven weight right now. So, just do it. Use heavy lift helicopters, or whatever else is in that category. Remove the cargo.

But, I don't really know! Here's a link:

https://gcaptain.com/how-to-remove-ship-stuck-canal/

All I know is somebody will get fired, and somebody will get sued.

How did it run aground, anyway?

[fescuerescue]

29. There's only one helipcopter in the world that can move those containers.

One at a time.

All 20,000.

They are very very heavy and very numerous.

[soothsayer]

36. Varying stories include a power failure (seems debunked currently)

And sandstorm winds of 31 mph or was it knots. Also, she might have cut in line and narrowly missed hitting another tanker.

So... not sure, but there might be humans at fault.

[A HERETIC I AM]

56. I bet it was the wind that was the major factor.

After all, when a ship that size is fully loaded, the sides are just giant, flat, vertical walls. Plenty of surfaces area for the wind to push on.

I’m actually surprised it hasn’t happened before.

It had a local, Egyptian pilot on board, of that there can be no doubt. And while the ships captain is ultimately in charge of the vessel, the pilot is there because he is supposed to know the waterway and keep this sort of thing from happening.

I’m betting he has already gotten early retirement.

[Celerity]

26. Baby Yoda FTW

[Xoan]

27. WD40

[malaise]

31. This thread is hilarious

That is my solution for most things.

Still greed kills - everything has to be bigger. This will happen in the Panama Canal one of these days

[meadowlander]

74. And straps of duct tape.

Just get enough people yanking on it from the opposite bank.

[fescuerescue]

28. It's to early to say.

They need to complete the seabed analysis first.

Right now this problem is still in the evaluation stage.

Without understanding the amount of support along the length of the ship, any moves made now might break the ship open. Full oil tanks and all.

[EndlessWire]

33. I wouldn't be surprised

If they gave up and just cut the ship up into pieces. One way or another, the cargo is coming off.

The article said the bow was stuck five meters into the sand (something like that.) I think they should just widen the canal, like a building project, and install a lock a la Panama. Might be quicker and easier.

[fescuerescue]

42. Yea Id say the ship is toast.

But thats a REALLY bad result for the region.

If they have to unload, drain the oils and cut it up. It'll be at least a year.

[sarisataka]

32. Windex

[soothsayer]

34. Robitussin?

[jmowreader]

35. Water jet dredging, and using big ships to drag it out

A water jet dredge uses high-pressure water to blast the material you want to dredge away. The Navy is currently sending Seabees to the area to advise, and they'll probably bring all the water jet dredges they can find with them.

If they can have Maersk move one of their E-class ships to the area and allow it to be used as the mother of all tugboats, that will definitely help. A Maersk E-class ship has a 109,000-horsepower Wärtsila engine and five 8000-horse Caterpillars.

This is a promo video for the engine:

[hunter]

37. Dynamite. It works for dead whales, right?

[Shermann]

44. I remember that

It was an EPIC FAIL of engineering.

The amount of energy required to fully combust or vaporize a human is enormous, let alone a damn whale.

To set off that amount of energy at once would be like a Hiroshima bomb.

So the FAIL was clearly in using too little dynamite.

[Kid Berwyn]

38. Temporarily dam the canal, immediately north and south.

Dig deep holes, fore and aft.

Dredge around, fore and aft.

Add water to dammed area.

Tug on the bow and stern to rotate in line with canal.

Remove dams.

[crickets]

46. That might actually work. ✔

[malaise]

57. Sounds good but I am no engineer

[milestogo]

39. Aliens.

[Gidney N Cloyd]

40. I've been doing some calculations...

[malaise]

43. Bwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah

[Hermit-The-Prog]

41. Easy ...

Provide 1st class, all expenses paid to fly the Murderer in Mar-a-Lago and all Congressional Repuqs to the ship for a conference inside the hold. (Gild a few things inside and the thing will be happy to show up to speak). Once they're inside, seal the ship with Plastikote or Liquid Tape or Linex. Wait a few days for the hot air and other gas to raise the ship enough to float away.

Then start a gofundme to buy the ship from the owner so we can just leave it sealed.

[USALiberal]

47. Really, you don't think the the best people are on it already? Nt

[Shrek]

54. There's a process

[A HERETIC I AM]

58. Shipyards occasionally use large airbags to launch vessels

Like these;



Get larger ones, secure them underneath, fill them with air and voila’! Extra buoyancy.

[yewberry]

61. Too unstable.

The vessel could easily capsize.

[A HERETIC I AM]

67. Not if they're long enough and secured so they aren't unstable.

Or make them square or rectangular.

Given enough time, they can do just about anything. Just look at what they went through to get the Costa Concordia floated.

[Stinky The Clown]

60. Not sure if this can work. Sikorsky S64 Skycrane heavy live helicopter.

Actually, it probably won't. It has a lift capacity of about 10 tons. I think a full container is a lot more than that.

[yewberry]

64. I think they're doing it right.

Dredging and using tugs at advantageous tides.

I think they might need floating cranes to remove cargo, but that has to be done really strategically. You don't want to break the vessel and you don't want it to capsize. Once it's less top-heavy, see what can be drained out of bilge tanks, then possibly fuel tanks.

[krispos42]

65. It's a tough problem

The ship is around. It can't overcome the friction and suction of the sand it's stuck on, even with tug assistance.

So, you have to pick up the ship. Easiest way is to increase the level of water in the canal so it can float and maneuver on its own. Second-easist way is to somehow increase the buoyancy of the ship. Perhaps by attacking large airbags to the hull under water and inflating them. The less weight on the sand, the less friction and suction holding it in place. Maybe it can float free, maybe it can be yanked off.

Third way is to unload the damn thing. Which is... hundreds of cargo containers? Thousands? You'd have to have a large crane on a barge, or more likely several of them, to start transferring the containers to barges or something. Because it's not in a port, I would guess not more than 10 containers per hour per crane effective transfer rate. Of course, you'd just have to remove enough to get the ship lose... not take off all of them. But I'm going to assume that for stability reasons, the heaviest ones are in the hold and the lightest ones on deck.

Hmmm... you might be able to just move the containers to the bank of the canal and worry about retreiving them later, if the cranes have enough reach. But I don't think that would work for very many containers until it was too crowded.

Fourth way is to declare the entire thing a loss and bomb the everyloving FUCK out of it until it's just a bunch of small, easily-moved pieces. I'm sure the naval and air forces of a bunch of nations would love to have some dive-bombing practice with armor-piercing bombs. That's the fastest way. But that's a bit... expensive.

Although you could have a pay-per-view stream of the day of the bombing and probably make a shitload of money.

[malaise]

77. Thanks for a detailed response

I'm still laughing at the fourth option

[krispos42]

79. It occured to me to call in the Oregon Department of Transportation...

...until I saw I was beaten upthread.

[malaise]

80. LOL

[Wicked Blue]

71. Preparation H

Why didn't I think of this sooner?

[Buns_of_Fire]

73. 22 metric tons of Suex-Lax dumped upstream.

Be sure to relocate every downstream vessel at least 25 nautical miles from the outlet port. It'll be moving some kinda fast.

[electric_blue68]

84. As Spock would say - "fascinating". 😉

I can't believe that thing is about the length of the Eiffel Tower!