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PCIntern

(25,544 posts)
Sun Mar 28, 2021, 09:16 AM Mar 2021

A thought for a Sunday morning:

Last edited Sun Mar 28, 2021, 10:53 AM - Edit history (1)

I have had a hard week. It was capped off yesterday by a woman upon whom I’m doing a very large dental case, who came in and told me that she can’t stand to watch Biden on TV, that he makes her physically ill, and that she did not watch the press conference but heard that he was incapacitated and mentally deficient. I was so tired of dealing with all the things I’ve had to deal with this week that I said not a word. There is no way I can possibly say anything That would alter her perception, she’s not here for political conversion I said to myself, so just don’t comment. Believe me, it took everything in my power to grit my teeth and just keep my mouth shut. Quite frankly, I’m getting to the point at this age where I can’t stand listening to this shit anymore, and if there were some underlying reason for me to retire if I could, which I can’t, it would be so I don’t have to talk to the assholes.

That being said, another thing I can’t stand dealing with is when one of these people comes in and says something about the good old days. I actually have a speech for them which goes something like this: you know, the good old days were not so good. If an ambulance pulled up in front of someone’s house, likely as not you never saw them again. If someone had a blockage around their heart, they died. If they had cancer that was not immediately locally resectable, they died. If they were in an automobile accident over 35 mph, there’s still a good chance of being killed even though the damage to the car may have been minimal. Women died in childbirth often, and things were so primitive that multiple births such as twins or triplets were a giant surprise to the physician and mother when discovered in the operating room in which they were giving birth. Men, by the way, were not permitted in the operating room when I was young. Medical syndromes were poorly understood, if at all, and children died routinely from inability to diagnose. If someone were allergic to penicillin and they were subject to say, chronic lung infections, they often eventually died if it progressed to pneumonia. Almost every suburban neighborhood had DDT sprayed daily or every other day during the summer to kill mosquitoes, and God only knows what effects this had upon us as we age. Where I lived the pollution from the Rohm & Haas chemical plant was so heavy that with the wind blew in a certain direction we could not go outside and play because it was overwhelming stench and there was no one to call, no appeal, and quite frankly nobody cared. The Amazing thing was that the parents of children who could not go outside we just shrugged their shoulders in resignation, and talk about how big business always had their way so no use complaining.

There were no consumer protections, if you bought a car that had multiple defects and was essentially unusable because it was constantly breaking down Continuously, tough beans to you. In my lifetime you could go to a shoe store and have your feet x-rayed many many times in the same visit in order to see if your shoes fit correctly. The exposure to not only the customers but the staff must have been enormous and I do not believe that anyone ever did a study showing premature death of shoe sales people but I would bet from that era there was a lot of cancer. It was like Madame Curie all over again. but you know what? Almost Nobody cared, or seemingly nobody. It took decades to begin to straighten all this out and here comes the right wing who want to send us back to the golden age of male landowners voting, second class citizenship for people Whom they feel are deserving of such, and street justice a.k.a. lynching as a form of extrajudicial punishment.

My mother , in 1929 at the age of 12, started smoking. She told me that even then they referred to cigarettes as coffin nails, but everyone assumed that something else was going to kill you first. There was a lady on our block who was 82 years old and everyone was in awe of her. Today’s equivalent would be 106. Most people assumed tgat even if they reached Social Security recipient age, that it would only be used for a very few years, if at all. Speaking of our block, there was a rumor going around in 1961 that the fellow who lived next door to us made.....-gasp- ten thousand dollars a year! I remember another neighbor said to my father, “if I made that much, I wouldn’t have to worry about anything for the rest of my life.” Such was life in those days.

But in fact you don’t have to look that far back for issues which would not present themselves today. When I was in training, we had in our kits boxes of rolled up asbestos which we used for casting metal crowns and inlays . There were fibers of this cancer-promoter all over the laboratories and in our lockers and on our clothes, and where I went to school there would be 165 of us in two rooms with low ceilings and no ventilation tearing or cutting the strips of asbestos. In addition, we used a material to make custom trays for dental impressions the monomer of which was the most vicious smelling solvent type liquid to this day I have ever smelled. It was definitely cancer-causing, and when I would leave lab both as a student and as a professor, every fold in my body arms legs and elsewhere, itched maddeningly because of the presence of this material in the air. I know this is anecdotal, but of the 165 in my class three have died or dying from pancreatic cancer, and we are only in our late 60s. God only knows what’s to come but needless to say, they don’t use that material anymore.

All of this constitutes the myth of America and it’s mythical exceptionalism. I am very tired as I stated at the outset of the assholes and I’m worn out from attempting to explain to them the simplest Concept or idea. If they don’t believe in the germ theory of disease, and thus refused to wear a mask, then what more can I do? Nothing. The fact of the matter is, these people believe in their hearts that the two greatest mistakes ever made in America were the freeing of the slaves and the constitutional amendment giving women the right to vote. They see America is going downhill from those points. The inherent hate and racism in this country runs very deep, and in fact the Civil War is apparently never-ending. The next five years will determine the fate of the Republic: whether it stands as a democratic state, or reverts to corporate feudalism run by tinhorn Mussolinis.

74 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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A thought for a Sunday morning: (Original Post) PCIntern Mar 2021 OP
K&R spanone Mar 2021 #1
Excellent observations. sop Mar 2021 #2
This is a fantastic post. LuckyCharms Mar 2021 #3
Agreed. It was a great commentary. DENVERPOPS Mar 2021 #40
Happy Passover Doc, think of you and your family only for at least this week. Forget the negative. SheilaAnn Mar 2021 #4
Thank you. And to you as well. PCIntern Mar 2021 #5
I was telling someone about the MyOwnPeace Mar 2021 #6
Yes. Shoe salesmen started having a lot of cancer. keithbvadu2 Mar 2021 #23
Our mother took us to the Buster Brown shoe store in the 40s and 50s. Mickju Mar 2021 #38
I did the same thing - it was fascinating. Talitha Mar 2021 #42
Yes, it was. Mickju Mar 2021 #44
I'm lucky I was born in 1983 and not earlier. Elessar Zappa Mar 2021 #7
Wow! Terrific news. PCIntern Mar 2021 #9
That is fantastic news. I had no idea that such an advance had been made... Hekate Mar 2021 #53
I knew a family when I was a child. TNNurse Mar 2021 #60
Wonderful news Unwind Your Mind Mar 2021 #74
K&R Frequently, I walk past a small old cemetery bronxiteforever Mar 2021 #8
"I wonder how many died from simple infections that we routinely treat today." luvtheGWN Mar 2021 #20
My mother's gmother died from diabetes before insulin was developed. keithbvadu2 Mar 2021 #29
My maternal great grandmother was a corn husker in Alabama. She got a cut from husking-- tblue37 Mar 2021 #27
So sad! Makes one appreciate medicine even more bronxiteforever Mar 2021 #35
When my dad went to waxing nostalgic gibraltar72 Mar 2021 #10
KNR niyad Mar 2021 #11
A thought that's very much appreciated. ancianita Mar 2021 #12
Well said nuxvomica Mar 2021 #13
Nail, meet Hammer. Geechie Mar 2021 #50
As a baby boomer I've often wondered what affects the things we grew up with have had on us. llmart Mar 2021 #14
My Mom worked as a secretary for decades... Hugin Mar 2021 #18
Teachers used to run off test copies and wnylib Mar 2021 #69
I used to run a blueprint machine. BluesRunTheGame Mar 2021 #62
Don't forget leaded gasoline, Doc. Hugin Mar 2021 #15
LOL! Thanks! PCIntern Mar 2021 #17
And lead paint HUAJIAO Mar 2021 #30
K&R n/t Alice Kramden Mar 2021 #16
All of this constitutes the myth of America and it's mythical exceptionalism malaise Mar 2021 #19
Regarding Shoe Sizing Fluoriscopes ... marble falls Mar 2021 #21
I stopped to look at a car for sale in a front yard. multigraincracker Mar 2021 #22
Great post. Wifey is prone to pine for the "good ole days" and will post on FB Ferrets are Cool Mar 2021 #24
I'd like to see my old testosterone levels come back PCIntern Mar 2021 #26
... Ferrets are Cool Mar 2021 #28
Maybe don't use a pain killer next time !! HUAJIAO Mar 2021 #25
Exactly Traildogbob Mar 2021 #46
She's 29 now Phillies3737 Mar 2021 #31
Out of the mouths of babes... PCIntern Mar 2021 #34
Being breast fed and carried everywhere? soldierant Mar 2021 #61
Having a whole day to play, take naps, and wnylib Mar 2021 #70
Daddy said a loaf of bread was only a dime during the depression keithbvadu2 Mar 2021 #32
And that's if you were lucky enough to actually get work, right? ShazzieB Mar 2021 #65
The CCC gave room and board which was a lot at the time. keithbvadu2 Mar 2021 #68
My mother was 12 years old in 1929 too! My father smoked, and I remember in the 1950s.... George II Mar 2021 #33
I have found that the best strategy to talk to these people is to pretend to be ignorant and ask Escurumbele Mar 2021 #36
Hope it lightens up for you Marthe48 Mar 2021 #37
KnR...nt MiHale Mar 2021 #39
Transliterally, "Chag Pesach Sameach," Doc! Ilsa Mar 2021 #41
If your mother saved your elementary school report cards beveeheart Mar 2021 #43
"heard that he was incapacitated and mentally deficient" left-of-center2012 Mar 2021 #45
I live near a retire radiologist. We were talking about advances in curing diseases. usaf-vet Mar 2021 #47
Great post! pandr32 Mar 2021 #48
Grim from end to end, but tragically, true. BobTheSubgenius Mar 2021 #49
This message was self-deleted by its author Hekate Mar 2021 #51
Happy Passover! Hekate Mar 2021 #52
Thank you! PCIntern Mar 2021 #54
To your point: people who say the good old days were obviously fine because they didn't die... Beartracks Mar 2021 #57
All without even mentioning upper-atmospheric nuclear tests. eppur_se_muova Mar 2021 #55
I always read your posts, PCIntern. I know there will be some real gems included. This one is great! erronis Mar 2021 #56
I'm honored. Thank you. PCIntern Mar 2021 #64
do I hear banjos? sheilahi Mar 2021 #58
Funny! PCIntern Mar 2021 #59
How do your patients get to say so much? wnylib Mar 2021 #71
Ah yes, the good old days. halfulglas Mar 2021 #63
good old days, like treadle dentil drills. pansypoo53219 Mar 2021 #66
But beware the PCIntern Mar 2021 #67
i do think i foubnd an old wood handled tooth puller maybe. i do know i found an old wood mercury pansypoo53219 Mar 2021 #72
Scary Laha Mar 2021 #73

LuckyCharms

(17,426 posts)
3. This is a fantastic post.
Sun Mar 28, 2021, 09:26 AM
Mar 2021

Brought back a lot of things that I had forgotten about.

Your mom and my mom were born 1 year apart (mom 1918, dad 1912).

DENVERPOPS

(8,820 posts)
40. Agreed. It was a great commentary.
Sun Mar 28, 2021, 11:51 AM
Mar 2021

If I were her dentist and she said that, I would have numbed her entire mouth to the point she couldn't even speak, and then given her a pro Biden speech and an anti asshole trump speech.

I had the same problem with my customers during the entire W administration days AND even more so during the Trump days.
I used to come home from work with my tongue and lips bleeding every day from me continually having to bite them.......
Actually, there was no W administration. It was the Cheney/Rumsfeld administration. Same for the so called Reagan administration, it was the HWBush/Cheney administration.
Most of the shitstorm today, started with HW's corrupt appointment of Reagan..........The same as the corrupted 2000 and 2004 elections.
In both the Reagan and WBush administrations, it was appalling to me that both of those whole damn administrations and presidents weren't rounded up and sent to Leavenworth for definitive acts of outright TREASON........

MyOwnPeace

(16,926 posts)
6. I was telling someone about the
Sun Mar 28, 2021, 09:36 AM
Mar 2021

foot/shoe X-ray machines in the shoe stores - they said "Can't be!"

Of course, that should have been a fact!

keithbvadu2

(36,806 posts)
23. Yes. Shoe salesmen started having a lot of cancer.
Sun Mar 28, 2021, 11:00 AM
Mar 2021

Yes. Shoe salesmen started having a lot of cancer.

Mickju

(1,803 posts)
38. Our mother took us to the Buster Brown shoe store in the 40s and 50s.
Sun Mar 28, 2021, 11:26 AM
Mar 2021

I would play with the x-ray machine while my siblings were being fitted. It was fun to be able to see my bones moving while I wiggled my toes. Luckily I haven't had cancer, but at 77 who knows what the future holds. My mother lived to be 98.

Elessar Zappa

(13,991 posts)
7. I'm lucky I was born in 1983 and not earlier.
Sun Mar 28, 2021, 09:36 AM
Mar 2021

I have cystic fibrosis and came along at just the time when some treatments were becoming available. But still, by 2018 I was very sick and required five liters of 24/7 oxygen. I was on my deathbed, literally. Then a drug came along in 2019 that can only be described as a miracle. My lung function went from 21% fev1 to 72% and I'm off oxygen and living a normal life. I'm currently looking to re-enter the workforce after being on SSDI for 9 years. So, no, I definitely don't want things to go back to "the good old days". Fuck Republicans.

PCIntern

(25,544 posts)
9. Wow! Terrific news.
Sun Mar 28, 2021, 09:42 AM
Mar 2021

The tragedy of CF pervaded society -it was a certain death sentence and what the family would have to endure beforehand was untenable.

And yes: fuck Republicans.

Hekate

(90,686 posts)
53. That is fantastic news. I had no idea that such an advance had been made...
Sun Mar 28, 2021, 02:14 PM
Mar 2021

Best of luck in all your long future.

TNNurse

(6,926 posts)
60. I knew a family when I was a child.
Sun Mar 28, 2021, 06:25 PM
Mar 2021

Three kids. The oldest and the youngest had CF. He was an indoor kid, we played inside, there was always an oxygen tank in the corner. He died at 13. His baby sister had a more active life, fell off a horse, broke her arm and was pretty active...she also died at 13.

I am so grateful that you have found the treatment that works for you. I hope you have a good long life.

Unwind Your Mind

(2,042 posts)
74. Wonderful news
Mon Mar 29, 2021, 03:54 AM
Mar 2021

We have a 14yo with CF in our family. When he was born his life expectancy was 20. He is also now taking a new drug. Based on the affects, his doctor said he should plan for retirement. I’m sure you know how happy we all are about this.

bronxiteforever

(9,287 posts)
8. K&R Frequently, I walk past a small old cemetery
Sun Mar 28, 2021, 09:41 AM
Mar 2021

Last edited Sun Mar 28, 2021, 11:03 AM - Edit history (2)

near my house. There are a few thousand burials from the period of the 1860s to the 1950s. A large number of children are buried there, (ages 1-8 years of age). There is one monument to a twenty year old son - his mother and father are buried there. Their son was burned to death in a railroad accident and his body was not identified so he lies in a mass grave in another state.

Many of the tombstones of the adults detail death below the age of 50. There are also several graves from folks who died in 1918-1919. I imagine the pandemic of 1918 took its share.
I wonder how many died from simple infections that we routinely treat today.

Nostalgia can be a soporific drug for some.

luvtheGWN

(1,336 posts)
20. "I wonder how many died from simple infections that we routinely treat today."
Sun Mar 28, 2021, 10:47 AM
Mar 2021

I believe that is the main reason the average age of death rose rather dramatically after the discovery of penicillin and so many other life-saving measures. My grandfather died in 1952 at the age of 88 (a stroke). He survived the 1918 pandemic and avoided contracting other infections. My grandmother died in 1964 at the age of 94. She too was lucky. Neither of them had very many peers who lived so long. The gravestones surrounding theirs tell the sad stories.

The good old days were good for some, not for all......

keithbvadu2

(36,806 posts)
29. My mother's gmother died from diabetes before insulin was developed.
Sun Mar 28, 2021, 11:05 AM
Mar 2021

My mother's gmother died from diabetes before insulin was developed.

tblue37

(65,357 posts)
27. My maternal great grandmother was a corn husker in Alabama. She got a cut from husking--
Sun Mar 28, 2021, 11:03 AM
Mar 2021

not much more than a paper cut. She died from it because she developed tetanus.

gibraltar72

(7,504 posts)
10. When my dad went to waxing nostalgic
Sun Mar 28, 2021, 09:42 AM
Mar 2021

I would say the good old days when you would have been dead 25 years ago. I reminded him of the times modern medicine saved him. he lived till 86

ancianita

(36,055 posts)
12. A thought that's very much appreciated.
Sun Mar 28, 2021, 09:48 AM
Mar 2021

Denials of past mistakes, substituting false memories of the 'good old days' make up the story that millions WANT to live by -- not fact-based, truthful history.

I hope you can retire soon, and am glad you get these things off your chest so you can cope until then. Enjoy the day.

nuxvomica

(12,424 posts)
13. Well said
Sun Mar 28, 2021, 10:04 AM
Mar 2021

I tell people that I grew up in a period when car ownership boomed and the emissions had lead in them so I think everyone my age is probably a little crazy. You are so right about car safety. Yeah, cars were built heavier back then and there was a satisfying clunk when you shut one of those heavy car doors but you were still far less likely to survive a crash in them.

Dentistry has come a very long way even in the past decade. When I got a crown years ago impressions were taken with a big metal device full of hot wax cooled by tubes of water and once the crown was in I had to go back at least once to get the "bite" corrected until which I would be in agonizing pain. Now they do it digitally, with little cameras, and always seem to get the "bite" correct the first time.

When people elegize about the old days, like exiled Russian princes after the revolution, I think they bemoan a loss of
their social group's privilege more than anything else.

Geechie

(865 posts)
50. Nail, meet Hammer.
Sun Mar 28, 2021, 01:33 PM
Mar 2021

“I think they bemoan a loss of their social group's privilege more than anything else.”

llmart

(15,539 posts)
14. As a baby boomer I've often wondered what affects the things we grew up with have had on us.
Sun Mar 28, 2021, 10:17 AM
Mar 2021

As a young woman one of my first jobs was in an engineering department of a large corporation. The machine that was used to run off blueprints used ammonia. It was a very large machine and was housed in a small room with little to no ventilation. There were times when I was in that room for an hour or so just running off the blueprints the engineers wanted. I was pregnant with my first child at one point in my tenure there. Who knows what that did to my lungs, though I have no evidence of any lasting damage. And don't get me started on all the second hand smoke we endured at work, at home, in restaurants and bars, everywhere. By the time I was ten years old I had two different types of measles, mumps, chicken pox, whooping cough. There were no vaccines for those.

There were seven children in my family and we were always renters. It was extremely difficult for my parents to find anyone who would rent to a family of nine people, so the first "house" we lived in for my first twelve years wasn't even really a house. It did have a furnace though - a coal furnace. My mother died at 55 and my father died at 60.

This was all in the 1950's - the so-called "good ole' days".

Hugin

(33,144 posts)
18. My Mom worked as a secretary for decades...
Sun Mar 28, 2021, 10:35 AM
Mar 2021

as did the wife of a friend. They both regularly used mimeograph machines. Which, if you recall, had a smell from the chemicals used to make the copies.

These ladies eventually succumbed to a mysterious dementia in their older years with identical symptoms even though they really had nothing in common other than being secretaries in the same time period.

wnylib

(21,465 posts)
69. Teachers used to run off test copies and
Sun Mar 28, 2021, 10:50 PM
Mar 2021

homework assignments on mimeograph machines.

In one of my early jobs, I ran off mimeograph copies. Fortunately, I didn't do it for long before getting another job.

BluesRunTheGame

(1,615 posts)
62. I used to run a blueprint machine.
Sun Mar 28, 2021, 07:45 PM
Mar 2021

Years later I worked for a company that was being tested for possible chemical exposure. I asked one of the guys about ammonia and he said “It’ll run you out of the room before it hurts you”.

Hugin

(33,144 posts)
15. Don't forget leaded gasoline, Doc.
Sun Mar 28, 2021, 10:27 AM
Mar 2021

Which I regularly ponder isn't responsible for the Qeew.

Yep, as always, the good old days are usually yesterday.

Hang in there. You gave me one of the best days I've had in awhile with your implosion video.

malaise

(268,998 posts)
19. All of this constitutes the myth of America and it's mythical exceptionalism
Sun Mar 28, 2021, 10:43 AM
Mar 2021

This

My fear is that the racists no longer give a shit, since their leaders no longer need the myth as a result if the collapse of the Soviet Union and their fear of more Obamas

marble falls

(57,083 posts)
21. Regarding Shoe Sizing Fluoriscopes ...
Sun Mar 28, 2021, 10:48 AM
Mar 2021

Wiki
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoe-fitting_fluoroscope


Health concerns

An Adrian Fluoroscope at the Dufferin County Museum, Ontario, Canada (2012). This device required lengthy decommissioning work before it could be safely put on public display due to the risk of radiation burn.

The risk of radiation burns to extremities were known since Wilhelm Röntgen's 1895 experiment, but this was a short-term effect with early warning from erythema. The long-term risks from chronic exposure to radiation began to emerge with Hermann Joseph Muller's 1927 paper showing genetic effects,[4] and the incidence of bone cancer in radium dial painters of the same time period. However, there was not enough data to quantify the level of risk until atomic bomb survivors began to experience the long-term effects of radiation in the late 1940s. The first scientific evaluations of these machines in 1948 immediately sparked concern for radiation protection and electrical safety reasons, and found them ineffective at shoe fitting.[5]

Large variations in dose were possible depending on the machine design, displacement of the shielding materials, and the time and frequency of use. Radiation surveys showed that American machines delivered an average of 13 roentgen (r) (roughly 0.13 sievert (Sv) of equivalent dose in modern units) to the customer's feet during a typical 20 second viewing, with one capable of delivering 116 r (~1 Sv) in 20 seconds.[5] British Pedoscopes were about ten times less powerful.[6] A customer might try several shoes in a day, or return several times in a year, and radiation dose effects may be cumulative.[6] A dose of 300 r can cause growth disturbance in a child,[5] and 600 r can cause erythema in an adult. Hands and feet are relatively resistant to other forms of radiation damage, such as carcinogenesis.

Although most of the dose was directed at the feet, a substantial amount would scatter or leak in all directions. Shielding materials were sometimes displaced to improve image quality, to make the machine lighter, or out of carelessness, and this aggravated the leakage. The resulting whole-body dose may have been hazardous to the salesmen, who were chronically exposed, and to children, who are about twice as radiosensitive as adults.[7] Monitoring of American salespersons found dose rates at pelvis height of up to 95 mr/week, with an average of 7.1 mr/week (up to ~50 mSv/a, avg ~3.7 mSv/an effective dose).[5] A 2007 paper suggested that even higher doses of 0.5 Sv/a were plausible.[8] The most widely accepted model of radiation-induced cancer posits that the incidence of cancers due to ionizing radiation increases linearly with effective (i.e., whole-body) dose at a rate of 5.5% per Sv.[9]

Years or decades may elapse between radiation exposure and a related occurrence of cancer, and no follow-up studies of customers can be performed for lack of records. A 1950 medical article on the machines pointed out though: "Present evidence indicates that at least some radiation injuries are statistical processes that do not have a threshold. If this evidence is valid, there is no exposure which is absolutely safe and which produces no effect."[5] Three shoe salespersons have been identified with rare conditions that might be associated with their chronic occupational exposure: a severe radiation burn requiring amputation in 1950,[10] a case of dermatitis with ulceration in 1957,[11] and a case of basal-cell carcinoma of the sole in 2004.[8]

Shoe industry response

Representatives of the shoe retail industry denied claims of potential harm in newspaper articles and opinion pieces. They argued that the devices' use prevented harm to customers' feet that otherwise would have resulted from poorly-fitted shoes.[12][13][14]
Regulation

There were no applicable regulations when the shoe-fitting fluoroscopes were first invented. An estimated 10,000 machines were sold in the US, 3,000 in the UK, 1,500 in Switzerland, and 1,000 in Canada before authorities began discouraging their use.[8] As understanding grew of the long-term health effects of radiation, a variety of bodies began speaking out and regulating the machines.
1931 ACXRP recommends limiting dose to 0.1 r per day (~0.5 r/week) in all applications.[15]
1934 IXRPC recommends limiting dose to 0.2 r per day (~1 r/week) in all applications.[16]
1946 ASA recommends limiting foot dose to 2 r per 5 second exposure.[3]
Children to be limited to 12 exposures per year.[3]
1948 Warnings specific to the shoe-fitting fluoroscope start appearing in US journals.[17]
1949 Tripartite Conference on Radiation Protection recommends lowering the dose limits:[18]
0.3 rep/week (~0.3 r/week) for whole body bone marrow
1.5 rep/week (~1.5 r/week) for the hands
1950 Warnings start appearing in UK journals.[6]
A public inquiry was held in Queensland, Australia and warned against uncontrolled use[19]
ICRP adopts the Tripartite recommendations, with some lack of clarity about units.[20]
1953 A definitive recommendation against use on children was published in the journal Pediatrics[8]
US Food and Drug Administration bans the machines.[21]
1954 NCRP recommends reducing dose limits by a factor of 10 for children, and other changes:[22]
15.6 mSv/a (~0.03 r/week) for whole body bone marrow
78 mSv/a (~0.15 r/week) for the hands
1956 UK Ministry of Health considers regulating the machines.[6]
1957 Pennsylvania is first US state to ban use of these machines.[3]
ICRP recommends limiting occupational whole body dose to 50 mSv/a (~0.1 r/week)[citation needed]
1958 The UK Government required all machines be fitted with a warning sign advising customers of possible health risks, and that they should not use a machine more than 12 times a year.[23]
1958 NCRP recommends limiting public whole body dose to 5 mSv/a (~0.01 r/week)[24]
1959 Switzerland prohibits the machines on June 4.[citation needed]
1960 160 devices still in use in the Canton of Zürich.[25]
1970s By 1970, 33 US states have banned the machine.[8]
Late 1970s: Last recorded sighting of a shoe-fitting fluoroscope in service in Boston.[10]
1990 ICRP recommends reducing limits on exposure and other changes:[26]
occupational foot dose to 500 mSv/a (~1 r/week)
occupational whole body dose to 20 mSv/a (~0.04 r/week)
public whole body dose to 1 mSv/a (~0.002 r/week)

multigraincracker

(32,677 posts)
22. I stopped to look at a car for sale in a front yard.
Sun Mar 28, 2021, 10:56 AM
Mar 2021

Old guy, 80 years old came out and we were having a nice talk until he started talking about his fear of Biden. I told him the one thing I really like about him is that I have never seen naked pictures of his wife. He broke into a laugh.

Ferrets are Cool

(21,106 posts)
24. Great post. Wifey is prone to pine for the "good ole days" and will post on FB
Sun Mar 28, 2021, 11:00 AM
Mar 2021

that she would love to bring them back. My response is always the same. "Only the good parts dear, and those would be mighty few".

Ferrets are Cool

(21,106 posts)
28. ...
Sun Mar 28, 2021, 11:04 AM
Mar 2021

Thank you for making me laugh out loud. You and me both...plus the ability to be able to get out of my bed or chair without groaning.

Traildogbob

(8,739 posts)
46. Exactly
Sun Mar 28, 2021, 12:15 PM
Mar 2021

As a dentist listening to that shit, I would provide a placebo pain killer and use extra long tools while probing. And laugh!

Phillies3737

(7 posts)
31. She's 29 now
Sun Mar 28, 2021, 11:08 AM
Mar 2021

Years ago, my family (kids were then 5 & 7) was having dinner in our beautiful Ithaca home. My (now ex) husband was in a PhD program at Cornell; I was a grant writer for a small, rural hospital situated 2 miles from Watkins Glen. You get the picture. We were discussing “how was school” stuff, etc. My daughter, the 5-year-old, chimed in with all seriousness, “Mom, I miss the good old days.” This was one of those times when your child comes out with something so funny, you have to hold a newspaper in front of your face so they don’t see how hard you’re laughing. I always wondered what the heck a five-year-old considered the “good old days”!

keithbvadu2

(36,806 posts)
32. Daddy said a loaf of bread was only a dime during the depression
Sun Mar 28, 2021, 11:08 AM
Mar 2021

Daddy said a loaf of bread was only a dime during the depression

but you only earned a dollar a day.

keithbvadu2

(36,806 posts)
68. The CCC gave room and board which was a lot at the time.
Sun Mar 28, 2021, 09:27 PM
Mar 2021

The CCC gave room and board which was a lot at the time.

Think of the movie Grapes of Wrath with Henry Fonda.

A loaf of bread for a nickel because it was 'day old' from the hard ass restaurant owner.

George II

(67,782 posts)
33. My mother was 12 years old in 1929 too! My father smoked, and I remember in the 1950s....
Sun Mar 28, 2021, 11:09 AM
Mar 2021

....she began to "nag" him to stop smoking because it caused lung cancer, heart disease, etc. And doctors didn't even know that definitely at that time, she was ahead of her time. But he stopped (I think he snuck a few cigarettes at work, though), and lived to be 85.

Escurumbele

(3,392 posts)
36. I have found that the best strategy to talk to these people is to pretend to be ignorant and ask
Sun Mar 28, 2021, 11:19 AM
Mar 2021

subtle questions.

Many years ago I had a conversation with a peer, who is very republican, and she was going on and on, and I was doing the same thing you did, stayed quiet and fought hard until I could not hold it anymore, and without coming with a bad attitude I started asking subtle questions which she could not answer.

Then I told her that I admired her...of course this came as a shock to her and asked "why?". I answered that I admired republican women who understood their place in society, that they understood that a woman should never earn as much as a man for the same job, that the real place of a woman was in the house, cooking and serving their husbands, and of course I went on and on until she turned and walked away. She never spoke to me about politics anymore, but I do have a feeling that she still thinks about the things I told her, whether she voted for the buffoon or not? I don't know, probably yes.

But it is important to inform them. Not sure how good it does to them, but it sure does a lot of good to shut them up in a very subtle way.

Ilsa

(61,695 posts)
41. Transliterally, "Chag Pesach Sameach," Doc!
Sun Mar 28, 2021, 11:57 AM
Mar 2021

G-d must be testing your patience. But I believe deliverance is upon us with changes in narrative as people see the good works of this administration.

My week was better than others, except when I finally read that former Chief Rabbi Jonathan Sacks died last November. I really have appreciated his speeches, lessons, and thoughtful interviews, especially a BBC multi-part podcast on morality in our century. I'll miss him.

beveeheart

(1,369 posts)
43. If your mother saved your elementary school report cards
Sun Mar 28, 2021, 12:04 PM
Mar 2021

like mine did, check your absences from school in the early 50's. Going through old stuff yesterday to throw away, I found all of my report cards beginning in first grade in 1949. One 6-week grading period in 3rd grade I missed 11 days and only 2 for the rest of that year. Another year, missed 8 days in one 6-week period and 4 for the rest of the year. I know I had chicken pox, measles and mumps as a child. I had never seen my father get sick except for a cold, but after I had the mumps, he stayed in bed for several days and all Mom would say was that he wasn't feeling well. Only years later did I find out how the mumps had affected him. 🤔 So no, the good ole days were not so good.

And PCIntern, what a righteous rant.

left-of-center2012

(34,195 posts)
45. "heard that he was incapacitated and mentally deficient"
Sun Mar 28, 2021, 12:14 PM
Mar 2021

I did hear Fox 'News' say that Biden had a list from his handlers on which reporters to call on,
and that he read every answer off notes written ahead of time by these 'handlers'.

So (they said) the whole thing was a fake press conference.

Guess that's where that lady gets her 'news'.

Fox: Just vomiting up lies.


usaf-vet

(6,186 posts)
47. I live near a retire radiologist. We were talking about advances in curing diseases.
Sun Mar 28, 2021, 12:25 PM
Mar 2021

30 years ago a diagnosis of lung cancer meant death in 13 months.

The good old days.

BobTheSubgenius

(11,563 posts)
49. Grim from end to end, but tragically, true.
Sun Mar 28, 2021, 12:51 PM
Mar 2021

I feel extremely fortunate to have lived through what I believe was the zenith of Western 'civilization' - the late 60s and early 70s. It was an absolutely superb time to be young and alive - good jobs were plentiful to the point that young people often quit potential career jobs for the summer, or for the ski season. Confident they would just find another when their sojourn was over.

In my whole life, I unsuccessfully applied for fewer than a half-dozen jobs. When I went back to school and got a diploma (with a total student loan of under $3000), I found a technical specialty that had two absolutely sterling qualities - it was a job that was legally mandated to exist, and it was, of all things, a TINY bargaining unit unto itself in the IBEW.

I went from being a student, with all those budgetary restraints, into a life of literally much more money than I needed. My gf also worked full-time, so we were FAR from wanting. In fact, I didn't even have a planned savings program. The money just accumulated in the bank, and in under 2 years, there was enough for a 20% downpayment on a house.


THOSE are the days that a lot of people lament. It was hard to visualize them ever ending, but we were blind to geopolitical and macroeconomic forces. From the late 30s to the 60s, much of the world was literally bombed flat, as was much of its economy. America stood astride the world, and without much competition (considering the disparate comparative size) was the economy that mattered.

Canada, of course, rode the coattails, and we all now find ourselves in real competition with the world. Looking back, it was all pretty much inevitable, but it sure seems like a lot of people have little idea of modern history, and no way to put their lives, and the state of their country, into a factual context.

We stood alone, and now we don't.

Response to PCIntern (Original post)

Hekate

(90,686 posts)
52. Happy Passover!
Sun Mar 28, 2021, 02:11 PM
Mar 2021

I hope the rest of the holiday brings peace and happiness to you. I’m glad you knew you could bring your frustration here.

Maybe you could hang a sign in the office with a stern warning: “This Office Is A Politics-Free Zone. (Uncle Sam pointing a finger) This Means You.”

Also — congratulations on your rant being a very good counterpoint to those soppy “good old days” posts that go around the internet: We drank water out of the garden hose, we had cap-guns, we ran around with no supervision all the time. Yeah, sure, and every school in the country had its share of polio survivors, but only if they were ambulatory enough to manage in their heavy braces and crutches. Kids in wheelchairs need not apply.

I remember DDT trucks. Mom shut the windows because she had read about the persistence of DDT in the human body. But, since cans of bug spray for household use claimed they were “safe to use around children and pets” she felt okay with giving our bedrooms a quick spritz against mosquitoes while we were in bed. I had my doubts, so I would pull the sheet over my head.

I remember that the mothers of children damaged by the pollution around Love Canal put their heads together and, among other things, did a door to door survey to gather information on the community’s health. I remember how their efforts were initially dismissed out of hand (my blood boils to this day) as “housewife statistics.”

Cue Archie and Edith Bunker singing: “Those were the good old days.”



Beartracks

(12,814 posts)
57. To your point: people who say the good old days were obviously fine because they didn't die...
Sun Mar 28, 2021, 04:54 PM
Mar 2021

... are only the ones who survived.

========

eppur_se_muova

(36,262 posts)
55. All without even mentioning upper-atmospheric nuclear tests.
Sun Mar 28, 2021, 02:59 PM
Mar 2021
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-altitude_nuclear_explosion

As for the rest, I'm reminded of a line from a long-canceled sitcom: "No Black person in his right mind would want to go back to the 1940's!", after other (white) characters reminisced about "The Good Old Days" when "we were all in the fight together". Maybe some extra quotes needed around "we".

ETA: Oh, and of course I was reminded of Dana Carvey's Grumpy Old Man character:
The Grumpy Old Man
Portrayed by Dana Carvey. He was an embittered archetypical grandfather figure with white hair, glasses, and a sour sneer. He would usually appear as a commentator complaining about the state of the world, mainly in regard to many modern conveniences. His complaints always included differences between today and "his day" ("In my day, we didn't have safety standards for toys. We got rusty nails and big bags of broken glass! That's the way it was, and we liked it! We loved it!" or, "In my day we didn't have hair dryers, if you wanted to blow-dry your hair, you had to step outside in the middle of a hurricane! You would get your hair dried but you would also get a sharp piece of wood driven clean through your skull--'Look, I'm a human head kebab!'--that's the way it was and we liked it, we loved it! " or "In my day we didn't need moving pictures, in my day there was only one show in town and it was called STARE AT THE SUN! That's right! You'd sit in the middle of an open field and stare up at the sun til your eyeballs burst into flames!

erronis

(15,257 posts)
56. I always read your posts, PCIntern. I know there will be some real gems included. This one is great!
Sun Mar 28, 2021, 03:23 PM
Mar 2021

sheilahi

(277 posts)
58. do I hear banjos?
Sun Mar 28, 2021, 05:45 PM
Mar 2021

Lucky for her that you were her dentist and not me. It might have been difficult to explain to her why when she got out of the chair she could have been a cast member of Deliverance.

wnylib

(21,465 posts)
71. How do your patients get to say so much?
Sun Mar 28, 2021, 11:14 PM
Mar 2021

I had the opposite experience several years ago of listening to a dentist's political comments when my mouth was numbed and propped open so I couldn't respond. We were polar opposites politically, but he did good work so I tolerated it and focused on the background music instead of what he was saying.

halfulglas

(1,654 posts)
63. Ah yes, the good old days.
Sun Mar 28, 2021, 08:16 PM
Mar 2021

I grew up in a household of 6 kids. My father voted for Stevenson and my mom thought Joe McCarthy was America's savior. We were saved by the fact that my mom didn't vote, thought her vote didn't matter. Two cousins had polio, thankfully without lasting effects but scary as hell. I caught almost every other disease that can be passed on in a family, including scarlet fever. Can I say vaccines are great? All us kids lined up in the fire hall to be among the first to get the Salk vaccine. I had PTSD when Mad Men was a big hit. I worked in a hospital in the 60s and the doctors didn't prey on us but almost any male around thought they had the right to touch your butt in the elevator whether was crowded or not.

You know those minor cable channels that show almost exclusively old nostalgic TV series? I tuned in a few times because some people were raving about them. OMG. Between the ones with cringeworthy lines when talking to or about minorities, there was also the fact that they never had any memory of the past. Episodes of one season were interchangeable with season 2 because the characters never changed. Also everybody is so white it doesn't look like my life at all. Boring. About the only old TV series I really enjoy are the Star Treks and MASH and sometimes Twilight Zone.

But I know some people never grow in their attitudes. I remember in the 80s I was attending a social (I think a Rotary) function and the conversation turned to the apology and pittance being paid to the Japanese Americans for rounding them up and incarcerating them and the vociferous debate among some of them. The "hell, no. We don't owe them a thing. We were at war." The idea that we were wrong and so we owed them was vigorously disputed by some of them. It's a continuing thing among so many that America is a great country. Therefore, we are always right and we don't owe anyone respect, an apology, reparations, etc.

pansypoo53219

(20,976 posts)
72. i do think i foubnd an old wood handled tooth puller maybe. i do know i found an old wood mercury
Mon Mar 29, 2021, 12:52 AM
Mar 2021

bottle, but more 'fun' was the musty oral pathology book i fished out of a dumpster. EEK!

Laha

(407 posts)
73. Scary
Mon Mar 29, 2021, 02:32 AM
Mar 2021

Thank you for your insight. Canada always has to deal with the same problems of America a little after they happen there. There's nothing I can do, but it's good to know what I'm in for.

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