Dealing with an Attorney in a Complicated Estate Case.

[MineralMan]

I'm coming near the end of dealing with my late parents' estate. It involves a trust and will. I am the executor and trustee for both. While it's a relatively simple thing, it's not something one can do without the services of an attorney. I'm working with the attorney who set up both the will and trust. Yesterday, at the end of an email, he wrote:

"You already have far exceeded my experience with any trustee I have worked with, which is saying something. I now have practiced law for 48 years. The aim, of course, remains the same. Keep our costs down and get the job done as expeditiously as possible."

He has said similar things before. While I'm glad to hear that, I always feel that I could have done more to expedite the process. So, here are some tips that anyone can use to keep an estate attorney's billing hours as low as possible and to keep the complicated process moving forward:

1. If the attorney says, "We will need to get copies of this or that document," say, "I'll take care of that," and then do it ASAP. Find and call the necessary people or agencies and arrange for those copies to be delivered directly to the attorney. Do everything online, as much as possible. The mail is unpredictable these days.

2. If the attorney says, "I need the birthdates, ages, addresses, SS#s, and contact information for all of the beneficiaries," contact them all and have them send that information to you. Then, arrange it all in an email and send it to the attorney.

3. If the attorney says, "We will need this, that, and the other thing," Just tell the attorney you'll get those things for him, and then do so promptly. Use your telephone, email, and Google skills to find out how to get them and then follow through.

4. Keep every communication between you and everyone else. If you email someone about something, add your own email address to the TO: field. For important communications, add your attorney's email address, as well. If a document passes through your hands, scan it or photograph it carefully, and save it in a folder specifically for the estate or trust process. Wherever possible, save everything as PDF files, so you can send them as email attachments. You will need them later. Don't make the attorney find them, even if you sent them previously. If he does, those are billable hours.

5. Even if the attorney doesn't ask you to, think about the process that is going on and try to anticipate needs. The more you can do on your own schedule instead of the attorney's schedule, the better. For example: My brother died in 2017. His name appears in many documents as a beneficiary. So, knowing that they would be needed at some point, I ordered 10 certified copies of his death certificate long before they were needed. So, when the attorney finally asked for that document, I had it on hand.

6. Communicate with your family, especially beneficiaries. Do this regularly. Update them at least weekly on the progress of the process. They will be concerned, but do not know exactly what is going on. It's your job to let them know and to relieve their anxiety and worry. If the attorney is going to send them something they need to sign and return, let them know in advance and remind them that they need to act promptly to keep the process on track. Become familiar with everything involved, and promptly answer any questions they have, attaching necessary documents. Use email whenever possible, and set up an email address list, so you can send important communications to the entire group. You can also use FB Messenger or Texts, but, remember that those are more difficult to store and locate later if needed.

7. Treat every task as a high priority. Communicate the need for prompt action to everyone who needs to send something to you, answer your questions, or do something. Follow up, and don't just wait for them to act. If they do not do so, contact them again and use whatever strategies you need to get them moving.

8. Do not use ordinary USPS mail. Send everything via Priority Mail or Express Mail, if necessary. Keep tracking number information and check on delivery, so you know when what you send arrives. You can also use FedEx, but don't send overnight things on a Friday if you do use FedEx.

9. Be patient throughout the process, but never become complacent. Don't assume that everyone treats the process as being as important as it is to you. Follow up any time something is not done promptly, and insist that it be done right away.

10. If a property sale is part of the process, communicate regularly with the buyer, the broker, and the escrow service being used. Don't let them put off actions they need to take. Insist that they act promptly and accurately. Ask questions, and assume nothing. Act quickly on any of their requests. If you are not where the transaction is taking place, ask the escrow company to use DocuSign for all documents that require your signature. If a document must be notarized, insist that it be sent by overnight courier, and return it the same way. Your bank offers notary services at your branch. Use those. It's fast, and often free, if you have some types of accounts.

Finally, at all stages, frequently ask everyone you deal with, including your attorney, "What can I do now to help expedite this process?" Then, do what the person suggests as soon as possible. If you are confused about something, ask questions until you are no longer confused.

Addendum: If you are the executor or trustee, open a separate bank account to receive all assets having to do with the estate. Create a spreadsheet or ledger and record every transaction, and keep it updated. You will probably need to get an TIN or EIN from the IRS for this. You can do that yourself, right on the IRS site. Search for IRS EIN on Google and make sure the site you go to is an actual IRS.gov site. It takes just five minutes to get that number, which may be required, particularly if a real estate transaction is involved. Here's one reason: When a real estate sale closes, having that bank account lets the proceeds of the sale be wire-transferred to that account. Note: Wire transfers require a different routing number than the one in your checkbook. Ask the bank for it.

[UpInArms]

1. Once again, you have provided a terrific public service

The only thing that I would clarify is in item 4:

save everything as PDF files

Making certain you rename the document to reflect what it is (so it is not called 001.pdf)

Well done and well stated in all other ways

[MineralMan]

2. Good point. Yes. I always do that, so I can find it later.

[Jersey Devil]

3. Excellent advice - from an estate attorney

Perhaps the most important advice is #6, keeping in contact with the beneficiaries and letting them know what is going on. Often the attorney is just too busy to do that and it will add significantly to your bill if the attorney is forced to be the one who does that. Without such contact, often the beneficiaries do not know what is going on to the very end when an accounting and proposed distribution is communicated to them by the attorney. Leaving all this information to the end will lead to many more questions and possible objections to how things were done.

[MineralMan]

8. Information about the distributions was one of the first

things my attorney sent to all beneficiaries. Apparently, in California, there is a 120-day time period within which objections must be made. Distributions can be made after that date. Fortunately, my family is very close and we don't have anyone in the family who would object. Further, the amounts the beneficiaries will receive were clearly spelled out in the trust documents.

There are only two living first generation offspring of my parents, along with four grandchildren. The grandchildren get a set amount. The rest is divided between myself and my sister, so it's pretty simple. My father had signed the titles for all of the vehicles. Thank you very much, Dad.

No objections.

All assets are "in trust," except for a couple of smallish IRA accounts. Life insurance policies are self-executing, so that's also simple. The only complex thing was their farm property, which was sold and in escrow before they died. Now, that's complicated. However, that sale will close this week, I am promised. All personal property has already been dealt with.

On May 10, the distribution will take place, and everyone can relax, I hope.

But, you're right - communication is crucial. The grandchildren all call me "Uncle Freak," which dates back to my hippie days. Everyone's fine with me dealing with all of this, and they all know that I'll do exactly what my parents instructed in the trust documents. All of them have copies of those.

All outstanding bills are fully paid already, except for the final electric utility bill, which I am paying tomorrow. I've been working on that since they died.

I'm also leaving a substantial amount in the bank account for one year, just in case. After that time, that will be distributed to my sister and I, as well, and the account closed, along with the trust.

[HariSeldon]

4. As executor of my still-living father's will, thank you

The advice about the EIN and the separate bank account are especially appreciated.

[Ocelot II]

5. You can also get lucky and have a parent who was organized.

I was also the personal representative of my father's estate, and I was very fortunate that he was the most organized person ever to have walked the earth. He was a retired lawyer (as am I), so he knew exactly what would have to be done. He had all of his papers organized and filed where I could find them, and he already had his will on file with the lawyer who had done his estate planning. Even so, there was an awful lot of paperwork to deal with - filing insurance claims, opening a checking account, getting the IRS number, getting assets transferred to the estate for distribution - which I, as the executor, had to do or at least manage. When there are ancient insurance policies and the insurance companies have changed their names you have to do some digging to even find out who to contact. I spent a lot of time on the phone.

Do your heirs a favor and get organized!

[MineralMan]

9. My father was very organized, too, up to the last couple of years.

I have to file his 2020 taxes, still. I'll probably get an extension and do that in October. He won't owe anything, though. He hasn't owed anything for several years.

He wasn't much of a life insurance buyer. However, he did have a VA life insurance policy that he had paid on for 20 years. It's final value was surprising, actually. He also had a Prudential Life Insurance policy, which matured and its value was converted to Prudential common stock. That's probably the most complicated thing yet to be dealt with, but it's not a large sum, really, compared to the rest of the estate, so there's no rush.

There are a few things still outstanding, like the final payment of a loan he made to the water company that serves the farm. But, I've already taken care of that, as well. That will come in in August.

Still, no matter how well organized someone was, it's still a complicated process.

[Pobeka]

6. Excellent.

When my mother passed away, my brother was the executor. I became the gopher to gather all sorts of information that didn't need the executor's signature. If I ran into something that needed to be done by the executor, I wrote down what needed to be done in very concise steps so my brother didn't need to spend time looking for the "how to" information, he could just directly proceed on the "what to do" (generally related to investment accts). We also could be a sounding board for things like how we felt about a particular realtor for the house, estate auction options etc.

[FakeNoose]

7. Thanks for this great advice

I only have one heir - my son - but I'm reminded that I need to consider how much it will be for him to settle my stuff when the time comes. Yes he'll get it all, but he'll also have to do all the work for it.

[MineralMan]

10. Actually, you can shortcut that process.

If you make your son the co-owner of everything, with right of survival, there's almost nothing to do later.

Any estate attorney can help you do that. You don't have to give him access to accounts, etc. But you can add him as a co-owner.

[FakeNoose]

11. Cool, I'll do that

I still have 5 years to pay off my mortgage, and then I can add him as the 2nd owner of my house. I'll talk to my financial guy about adding my son's name on the IRA account. They already have him as the beneficiary in case of my death.

Thanks MM!

[cojoel]

16. there is a flip side on taxes

If the house is sitting on a larger gain, at inheritance time the cost basis is "stepped up" to the current value with no taxes being owed or paid. Later, when the house is sold, the taxes are based on the difference of the then-current price with this newer, higher price. If your son is already co-owner of the house then that won't happen, and on eventual sale the taxable amount would be higher.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

20. I dont think you have to do anything with the IRA.

It wouldn’t need to go through probate. Your son is a beneficiary by contract.

Double checking is always good though.

[empedocles]

12. As a lawyer, and a trustee of a family trust for many years, I would add another

proviso. Identify all beneficiaries, including possible beneficiaries [successors in interest of deceased named beneficiary, problem children, etc.].

Then be aware of trust attorney's standard warnings - when there is money on the table to be had, there can be problems.

I try to anticipate these problems, and I approach it in a way somewhat similiar to my deal-making experience. What can be done to try and hold the deal together - before things get more complicated. [Estates in court can go on for a long time - and that can be painful].

[MineralMan]

23. Fortunately, my situation is quite simple, and the grandchildren who

are named as beneficiaries get a fixed amount, rather than a percentage share. My sister and her husband are just fine with the equal division of the rest, which will probably be done several times, as more assets become available.

That is why it is so important to communicate with the beneficiaries and get their agreement to everything. Since there are no bad feeling among the family members, it has been easy. When it came to personal property, nobody really wanted much of anything, and that has all been taken care of. The buyer of the farm property agreed that the remainder of that personal property stays with the property for them to do with as they please. The buyer is looking forward to going through the stuff in the outbuildings, etc., which is fine with us. We were just going to pay a scrapper to haul it all away. The total value of that stuff was small, really. Most of it is essentially scrap metal, really. The new owner will pick through it and take what she wants, and then get the rest hauled away.

There was some work required on the property, but we've come to an agreement with the buy to do that work after the escrow closes, and funds are being set aside, based on contractor estimates, at the closing and held in escrow to pay the contractors. Slightly irregular, but the buyer and I figured out how to work that, and the lender agreed to the terms we decided on. One of the things was termite damage repairs and tenting and fumigating the house. I didn't have the cash on hand for that, so the buyer paid for the work and will be reimbursed at closing. The work has now been completed to the lender's satisfaction, so the closing will happen this week. The other job left is replacing the entire septic system, which will be done after the closing. I asked the contractor for a high-end estimate, so that should be covered by the set-aside funds. If there are cost overruns, though, I'll pay those from the proceeds of the sale before the distribution to beneficiaries.

What is important is getting everyone to agree, and I and the beneficiaries are very easy to deal with on these matters, because the cost is small in comparison with the value of the assets. Making deals is part of the deal, really. Getting lenders to agree, however, can be tricky. But, we worked it all out, between the buyer and myself and the lender. Everything's good.

[empedocles]

27. Good for you. Optimum prep helps a lot.

[empedocles]

13. As a lawyer, and a trustee of a family trust for many years, I would add another

proviso. Identify all beneficiaries, including possible beneficiaries [successors in interest of deceased named beneficiary, problem children, etc.].

Then be aware of trust attorney's standard warnings - when there is money on the table to be had, there can be problems.

I try to anticipate these problems, and I approach it in a way somewhat similiar to my deal-making experience. What can be done to try and hold the deal together - before things get more complicated. [Estates in court can go on for a long time - and that can be painful].

[Raven]

14. Some people just don't want to do it. I had a

client once who came to me for an estate plan. His wife was pushing him to do it. He was a wonderful guy...an inventor...he invented the prototype for the Massachusetts lottery machine among other things. We got all the way through his plan and all that was left was him coming in and signing the papers. He never came back.

[July]

15. I would add, having been in your shoes:

Keep a time/date record of phone calls, including name of the person you talked to and anything important said by either of you. For any estate settlement that takes a long time, the records will be useful in reminding you of past conversations, and will also back you up if there are questions about those conversations.

[MineralMan]

24. Yes. I journal all important phone calls in emails to myself,

immediately after the call is over. Since those carefully titled emails are stored by date, it's very easy to find them.

[sinkingfeeling]

17. Did all that back in 2017. The worst was trying to locate where

money to my dead sister's dead mother-in-law's now defunct high school should be sent.

P.S. My attorney had to threaten Bank of America to release the monies in my sister's accounts even though I was to receive them POD (payable on death). I almost went bankrupt awaiting those funds, paying for cemetery and cremation, her lease payments, etc. Took BOA over 50 days.

[MineralMan]

21. Fortunately, all of my parents' bank accounts

were identified in the trust. That simplifies things a good deal. Since there is a will and a trust document with just one amendment, the attorney is filing a pleading in probate court that should make it a one-step process. Right now, the court does not want to hold any hearings at all, due to COVID-19, so if the pleading doesn't have any errors, the court should order without a hearing. my attorney knows his stuff, so, and the situation is quite simple, so it should have no problems.

The list of beneficiaries is short and all are in agreement. That part has been my job, as well.

[FSogol]

18. Bookmarking thread. Thanks for the info. n/t

[Paper Roses]

19. Thank you for providing this information.

I printer it out for the benefit of my kids.. Of course, I forgot to click on 'print selection' and I now have 11 pages of info. Glad that happened because other information is also helpful

Things differ is states and I don't know what my girls will face here in MA. I have asked then to choose a lawyer so I could meet with said lawyer to find out what I need to have available for them. They won't do it! Makes me angry that they are so stubborn.
This old timer would like to have the info on hand.

You are great to have done this.
PR

[mnhtnbb]

26. Choose a lawyer yourself

and schedule the appointment.

If they want to work with someone else after you're gone, they can switch to the attorney of their choice at that time.

[SWBTATTReg]

22. Thank you for this...

[MineralMan]

25. Sharing experiences that might help others is my pleasure.

[Deminpenn]

28. Do not assume you will be billed by the hour

The biggest way to keep attorney costs down is to find out up front if the attorney plans to bill by the hour or as a percentage of the estate's total value before you engage them.

I trusted my attorney, a relative no less, and assumed I'd be billed by the hour. It was a bad surprise when I saw my atty had billed me at a percentage of the estate. It was probably 3Xs what I'd have paid if I'd been charged by the hour as I did all the work gathering the required information. All my atty did was file the state inheritance tax return, update the deed to the house, register the will and make a few copies. Still makes me mad.

[MineralMan]

30. Yes, of course.

[spanone]

29. Thanks MM

[dickthegrouch]

31. How about non-US based beneficiaries?

Anyone have any advice on how to transfer cash bequests to foreign persons? They are stipulated in the 15-20K range.

[MineralMan]

32. I'm sorry, but I don't.

A Google search might turn up an answer, since I'm sure there is one.