General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsI'm firmly against handing out water at the polls.
Or anything else for that matter, but hear me out.
When I worked the precincts years ago one of the voters mentioned that some guy was out front passing out pizza to people in line. The captain went out and saw a few people chatting with voters and holding empty pizza boxes. It must have been the spring primary because these Good Samaritans were all plainly wearing John McCain t-shirts.
When told they had to stay outside the boundary flags and hand it out in the parking lot, they protested that they were giving pizza to Democrats too. ...Exactly.
As for cold water, I understand where most people's hearts are, but I also know I can have anything I want printed on the label of bottled water, even "complements of (your county) Republican Party". Tell voters to bring a cooler.
We could trust that the GOP would never try such a stunt (again), police the line to make sure "visitors" aren't campaigning, or tell everyone that unless they're with a voter, to stay out in the parking lot.
That third option seems like the only practical solutution.
applegrove
(118,874 posts)that have the long line ups. It will be poor districts. 7 hours in a line up and you need sustenance. People who have leisure or salaried jobs can take time off to vote during the day or early voting. People working at the fast food outlet cannot take time off. Plus they have child care issues. They can't afford a babysitter. This will be a surgical strike by GOP. Like a poll tax because 7 hours if babysitting is at least $70.
JohnnyRingo
(18,672 posts)but handing out treats, souvenir tokens, water, or shirts could be considered campaigning at best, and buying votes at worst. Plus, an officer would have to stand right there to make sure no one whispers "vote for (candidate)" as they handed things out. No money? Fill a milk jug.
I doesn't have to be a candidate. Issues are usually bipartisan and many voters may not be passionate about them. It would be easy to sway many voters with a simple treat, especially if they weren't planning on voting on it anyway.
How about keep it simple?
The rest of what Georgia is doing is blatant voter suppression.
hlthe2b
(102,479 posts)within the boundaries restricted by law. The two are NOT the same. Why you would even suggest that campaign propaganda and labels would be allowed is ridiculous within the legally established boundaries that disallows campaigning. Of course it is not. No one is suggesting it should be allowed. Donated generic label water bottles with no party or political identification whatsoever is what is being discussed.
JohnnyRingo
(18,672 posts)If it's legal to hand out whatever you want to people in line, someone is going to wear a campaign shirt or whisper suggestions sooner or later. It's especially easy to use this tactic for issues, since most people aren't that passionate about them anyway. Many weren't going to vote on that so they could shrug their shoulders and say 'OKAY".
hlthe2b
(102,479 posts)nor wear political insignia or clothing, nor bribe the person in front of you, nor photograph someone's ballot, nor any number of things. This has been the case for as long as I've been voting (and that's a long time)
Precinct supervisors have traditionally approved donated OFFERS of UNMARKED bottled water and in less common situations anonymously donated pizza or the like. Never with political attachments. And only when something has happened to delay voting beyond what is reasonable and/or in heat.
Tien1985
(920 posts)Anyone from standing in line and whispering suggestions now anyway. It happens already. Preventing people from offering humanitarian aid because of something that is already going on seems like a pretty flimsy excuse for not being humane.
hlthe2b
(102,479 posts)is defensible ( ) because some lout might try to distribute water with a candidate's face on it or while wearing a MAGA (for example) hat and while overtly preaching their campaigning spew. The latter is illegal already within a legally-proscribed distance from the polling booths and conflating it with the humanitarian distribution of generic water is an RW meme, as though they were an identical issue. Neither should you conflate two voters in line whispering to each other with a DEFINED ORGANIZED ATTEMPT to campaign within that legally-proscribed area. They are most certainly NOT the same.
When you have the leading constitutional scholar from both liberal (Laurence Tribe) AND conservative (J. Michael Luttig) AGREEING on this, then this ought to be halted. No Dem should be repeating this BS RW meme.
Link to tweet
Link to tweet
yellowdogintexas
(22,283 posts)legal otherwise. Period. Outside that perimeter, we don't care; we have enough to do.
Also you can pretty much bet on the two parties keeping an eye on each other for transgressions In 2016 both party chairs agreed that no MAGA hats or Nasty Woman shirts were allowed inside.
So let's say someone hands you a push card for candidate A and you walk into the polls with it in your hand. Election workers will ask you to put it in your pocket or purse or the conveniently placed trash can. We always have someone greeting at the door to take care of this and if it is primary time, both election teams will help out with greeting.
Same would be true with Campaign labeled water. I would let the voter know right away the label needed to come off or the bottle disposed of at the door.
I have also had voters try to come in the building wearing a campaign shirt; I ask them to either change, button up a jacket over it or turn it inside out.
yellowdogintexas
(22,283 posts)It must be placed 100 feet from the voting entrance to the building. It is a very bright yellow sign which clearly states its purpose. (it looks like those 'wet floor' signs you see in buildings)
Outside that perimeter, folks can hand out push cards, wear campaign gear, etc. All campaign signs must also be outside the 100 foot line. Candidates can hang out and do meet and greet with voters.
This is about as simple as it gets. Stay outside the lines, play nice and you have no restrictions.
+I have on occasion ended up with a handful of pushcards by the time I get to the boundary .
This rule has been in place for ever. If anyone tries to pull any shenanigans inside the 100 foot line, the election team can ask them to leave the property.
Voters can not use their cell phones inside the building or take photos ahve never witnessed any candidate or campaign workers crossing that 100 foot marker.
I haven't seen anything about food and water, or changes in the 100 foot boundary, here but I do not think this is included in our proposed rule changes. I know that last year when the lines were really long, people were sending pizzas and bringing water to the folks in line. and no one raised any ruckus about it
Lord knows we have enough stuff coming up without the water business.
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)Or better, use ANY early voting tool to vote as early as possible. Force republicans to clearly do felonies to win, then have lawyers bail their asses.
JI7
(89,282 posts)Blue_true
(31,261 posts)They wont get rid of it, instead they will try to eliminate days that Blacks and other people of color vote. To that I say change our voting pattern until they have to do something that is so blatantly unconstitutional that not even conservative judges will back them.
yellowdogintexas
(22,283 posts)Everybody loves early voting and we have one of the longest EV periods around.
Blue_true
(31,261 posts)an adversary is to simply outlast that adversary. Republicans that gain power want us to throw up our hands and say that they are making voting impossible. But if we analyze the laws that they pass and still figure out how to vote, then we get into position to remove them from office and then make voting easy for every American that is a citizen.
csziggy
(34,139 posts)I can see that being a huge security risk, allowing a big container insider.
I don't even carry my purse in - I put my photo ID and my voter's card (which they never want to see anyway) in my jean pocket, carry my glasses case, and that is it.
applegrove
(118,874 posts)JohnnyRingo
(18,672 posts)But I don't sweat enough to lug a 30 gallon Thermos behind me.
USALiberal
(10,877 posts)JohnnyRingo
(18,672 posts)Not only for what they hand out, but what they say to the voters.
USALiberal
(10,877 posts)brush
(53,962 posts)voters in Black and POC precincts to wait in hours-long lines then have the nerve to rule that they can't food or water while in line to vote.
It is not ok. Protest it, don't defend it. And I doubt it will stand once it's taken to court.
JohnnyRingo
(18,672 posts)Those assholes out front passing out pizza in McCain shirts didn't ask permission to campaign, and that's just what it was. We can't have one law that says black voters in the south can accept gifts from 'humanitarians", but white people can't.
It should not be hard to believe that someone will abuse the privilege, regardless of party. I myself would consider handing out water and ask people to "Vote Yes On Issue 2" if I could, since most people are usually easy to sway on something they don't understand anyway.
How about Blacks, Asians, Whites, Democrats, and Republicans bring a small cooler with enough water and food to last as long as expected so as not to starve to death or dehydrate into heat stroke. Bring a freakin' umbrella too. I would and I'm not exactly a genius.
brush
(53,962 posts)that needs to be protested. And polling stations always have boundaries past which there is no campaigning. And you have to know coolers will not be allowed inside so what are people to do, leave them outside?
Until this unconstitutional law is overturned it's best to advise people to bring their own water on their person.
Protest this law.
JohnnyRingo
(18,672 posts)if you have to. We don't get pat downs and metal detectors where I vote, but I'm probably privileged.
If someone were to leave a cooler sitting at the door for the five minutes it takes to vote, then comes out to discover it gone, there's a whole line of people standing right there where you left it. No one saw anything? None of you? I may be privileged, but that's one bad neighborhood.
Probably better to carry your cans of fluids in a knee sock anyway.
Maru Kitteh
(28,344 posts)you endorse here denies basic humanity, whilst the alternative allows dehydrated grandparents to avoid hospitalization while simply trying to exercise their rights as citizens in an oppressive, bullshit system designed to deny them their value as human beings and equal citizens.
If I order an Uber while I wait in line are we going to arrest her for bringing my deli sandwich and an icewater? What if I charge people a penny for a glass of bottled water? This law is stupid and cruel.
JohnnyRingo
(18,672 posts)How about one rule: Stay outside the barriers unless you're voting or assisting someone who is. Done.
Need water? Bring some.
Might get the munchies? Fill your pockets with crackers.
If you don't think you can make it with out catering, sacrifice just a little for your country.
Grandmas have purses bigger than my trunk, and they have everything in there they need for three days. I know, some of my best friends are grandmas.
No one has any legitimate business at a voting poll unless they're voting or working.
Maru Kitteh
(28,344 posts)You're right, they shouldn't worry about policing the line other than to make sure nobody is being menaced. It's a stupid, cruel, RWNJ law and it needs to be abolished.
getagrip_already
(14,932 posts)more polling sites open longer hours. Get rid of the lines.
I worry some asshat will start poisoning people in line because reasons.
yellowdogintexas
(22,283 posts)It means voters do not have to go to their 'home precinct' to vote on Election Day. Every precinct is now called a Voting Center and anyone can vote at any center. Bonus: we have a 'wait time' feature in our system which allows us to keep Election Central updated on the wait time in our lines. We can also check with the surrounding Centers for wait time and send folks to a nearby location with no line. It solves SO many problems.
We have maybe 55 early voting locations scattered around the county in very accessible locations.
On Election Day, we have 300 voting centers which makes it so easy for anyone to vote anywhere. We love it, the voters love it and we have pretty much done away with provisional ballots as a result. Voters come in and start going on about not knowing if they are in the right place - we just smile and tell them it doesn't matter and check them in. Really nice at the end of the day!!!!
I think every state should do this and if Red Red Texas can do it, then so can all the others.
In order to do this, we had to seek approval from the Texas Secretary of State. The best part of all was the requirement to install a system which would produce a paperballot on the spot for any location in the county. We did and it is an awesome system (not connected to the Internet either)
Ms. Toad
(34,121 posts)Most states have a no-campaigning boundary. No one, regardless of what they are doing, is permitted to hang out inside the boundary unless they are an election worker, or an observer. Your pizza people fall into that category. It makes absolutely no difference that they were handing out pizza to both parties. They are not permitted to be inside the boundary.
The second issue is whether or not they are allowed to campaign outside the boundary, and pretty much every state permits that.
So the issue you are complaining about, is not an issue of handing out water. It is an issue of people being permitted to be inside the boundaries during an election. You saw that by enforcing the boundaries, not by prohibiting humanitarian aid.
USALiberal
(10,877 posts)applegrove
(118,874 posts)Is that what they are claiming.
Ms. Toad
(34,121 posts)Generally, each state has a statute which defines how far from the polling places that campaigning has to cease.
The GOP is not claiming the boundaries go to the end of the lines, they are banding a specific activity they view as campaigning outside of the boundaries. The distinction they are making, is that handing out a flyer is not giving something of value, whereas handing out pizza, water, etc. is.
applegrove
(118,874 posts)hlthe2b
(102,479 posts)JohnnyRingo
(18,672 posts)If they do it in the parking lot, then I completely misunderstood. I assume you don't want people passing out water with a candidate's name on it to voters in line, because if there's no specific law against it you can expect to see a great humanitarian effort from the GOP (and frankly, from the Dems too). I assume as well that you don't want these humanitarians chatting it up as they bring refreshments.
Does the Georgia law stop people from passing it out outside the boundary too?
yellowdogintexas
(22,283 posts)Calista241
(5,586 posts)I spent 12 hours in the hospital. A bad actor could put a lot of stuff in water or gatorade, or anything really.
USALiberal
(10,877 posts)brush
(53,962 posts)Calista241
(5,586 posts)and I'm hardly an expert. It doesn't even have to be something serious, maybe diluted ex-lax or something like that.
Nexus2
(1,261 posts)the right wayas liquor stores were closed on election days. It was usually the GOP that did this according her.
hlthe2b
(102,479 posts)They were campaigning. Plain and simple. Why was THAT allowed? The food is a secondary issue.
There is a world of difference between handing out bottles of water with no campaign identification whatsoever and conforming to the total ban on advocating for any candidate, party, side, or issue.
Why you would likewise not expect the water to be free of campaign labels escapes me.
You witnessed clear and overwhelming violations that should have been immediately stopped. As a poll worker in CO in the past, I can assure you it would have been IMMEDIATELY. No one was allowed in line to vote with candidate paraphernalia, much less hand such crap out.
I can also say that I witnessed water being handed out in past summer primary elections when the lines were unreasonably long. Apparently, at the Atlanta site that I observed this, a local businessman anonymously donated cases of generic bottled water for that purpose, they were position in unmarked coolers and volunteers would make the crowd aware that they were available and those in line would pass bottles down the que.
Honestly? You are making a point that the existing regulations and law should be followed and yes, it should. It should have been in your example. But that does not change the issue of being allowed to prevent heat stroke in those being forced into long lines during the heat of the summer just to vote.
JohnnyRingo
(18,672 posts)...but now you're expecting a lot of enforcement. Voting precincts are short handed of volunteers as it is, Nobody wants that job, and I imagine you knew that. So that leaves the job of closely watching every Good Samaritan to make sure there are no words spoken or campaign literature present to the Sheriff. All day. At every precinct.
If they could do that, I wouldn't care what they hand out to voters, but my county has more precincts than deputies. Tell people to bring enough water so they don't go into heat stroke, and share! Is that so hard?
hlthe2b
(102,479 posts)nearby milling about. That is their job. In recent years some precincts had more, given targeting by some extremist elements.
Ms. Toad
(34,121 posts)Volunteer to be an observer at the next election, and see how long it takes for election officials to show up if there is a report of electioneering inside the boundary.
There are firm boundaries beyond which electioneering is prohibited. Anyone - observer, pollworker, citizen, etc. can call the board of elections. They spend the day roving around solving problems, inlcuding electioneering inside the boundaries.
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)Lacking absurd hypotheticals, support for your argument is reduced to... exactly what? :shrug"
yellowdogintexas
(22,283 posts)However it is not difficult at all to get volunteers to hand out water, etc. All candidates have volunteers there anyway so if every one of them checks out the supply of water etc every so often that should make it simple.
Bleacher Creature
(11,258 posts)If you expand the number of precincts and the number of voting machines per precinct, allow for broad access to mail-in voting, and/or establish an extended early voting period, people won't have to wait for ridiculous amounts of time to vote.
And if people don't have to wait more than 30 minutes to vote, regardless of when they vote, I have no problem barring people from handing out food and beverages.
crickets
(25,989 posts)mahina
(17,730 posts)kacekwl
(7,024 posts)I've already made the choice who to vote for. If Mitch McConnell or Nancy Pelosi themselves brought me water or pizza it wouldn't change my mind. Or anyone else I suspect.
stillcool
(32,626 posts)to stand in line for hours on end to vote. That is the issue. Not the damn water.
edhopper
(33,651 posts)/suppression is making people stand on lines for hours to vote.
Bev54
(10,087 posts)The people handing out water are volunteers, not for a candidate but for humanity. It is ridiculous, you don't think if people are standing in line to vote, haven't already made up their mind. This is such an American (republican mostly) way of thinking, and that is not good.
Wounded Bear
(58,762 posts)so the longest wait times are in minutes rather than hours?
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)Water is necessary for health and life, and people in lines, often for hours these days, are exposed to physical stresses they may not anticipate.
I am firmly for access for those who provide water and other support services, also to include family and friends, members of the community, local businesses, paramedic and other medical services, U.N. election personnel, and organizations such as the Red Cross, to citizens who aren't ready to abandon their attempt to vote.
Btw, the house version of our FOR THE PEOPLE ACT, requires waits of no more than A HALF HOUR to vote.
AND would make election day a NATIONAL HOLIDAY!
Are we GREAT, or what?!
JI7
(89,282 posts)lines in mostly minority areas. They limit the number of places to vote to discourage them from voting becsuse they would have to wait a long time.
But many still do it so they can vote. Not allowing water is to part of their atrempt to discourage voting.
JohnnyRingo
(18,672 posts)And the people who vote there are well aware of it as well. That is voter suppression.
Now tell me why no one can bring enough provisions to keep themselves alive until they cast their vote? They could fill a milk jug with water if they have to. They could carry a small six pack cooler full of whatever they need. They shouldn't have to depend on the church to keep them alive when they vote.
mcar
(42,426 posts)One cannot wear a shirt or deliver items with a political message on them within 150 ft of a precinct. In November, when I arrived at my designated precinct to be a poll watcher, we were asked to post Biden/Harris signs. Even at 6:15 a.m., the precinct officer made sure we posted those signs 150 ft. away. In fact, in this very R precinct, he pulled up the former guy signs that were much closer.
I see no reason why people couldn't hand out water and food while wearing generic clothing. None at all.
JohnnyRingo
(18,672 posts)What did that guy say to you when he handed you water? Did he tell you to vote for someone?
I see you're enjoying your Trump dog ona stick.
You know what? Politics is a fun but dirty sport. When the other side says something you can use against them, you hold up a megaphone in front of them.
There is nothing wrong with banning gifts at the precincts, but this is close to when people were bringing glasses of water for Terry Schiavo to drink. Conservatives knew she was in a coma and couldn't drink, but they pretended she just needed a glass of water to survive and make it sound like Democrats were heartless when they stopped hydrating her.
This is close to when people were trying to break into a hospice to give a dead woman a drink of water? Really? Show me how offering water and pizza to people waiting 8 hrs in the heat to vote compares to a bunch of RW lunatic terrorists trying to kill hospice workers.
RE T-shirt inspection: anyone who works or volunteers at a precinct knows they cannot wear anything vaguely resembling a political message on their clothes. And yes, poll workers/watchers are turned away because of it.
JohnnyRingo
(18,672 posts)Those idiots knew she couldn't drink water, but republicans pumped them up and put it on a bumper sticker everyone could understand. They were playing the Democrats.
How about if a local republican candidate comes down the line shaking hands and handing out gifts? Do you think that's alright if he doesn't have a campaign button or T-shirt on? You would go nuts. How about everyone stays behind the flag line and if someone wants what you're offering, they can come to the parking lot and get it?
Eko
(7,399 posts)Giving out water is not campaigning. One can be legal while the other is illegal. Might as well as say giving someone a hug in line to vote can be campaigning so should be illegal because they might whisper something to them. Preposterous.
JohnnyRingo
(18,672 posts)He doesn't have to be wearing a MAGA hat or offering advice.
It's not just Trump either, imagine you were in line to vote and a local Republican candidate came down the line shaking hands and handing out trinkets or water. I know how you'd feel.
Maybe it's different when Al Sharpton does it, but I don't think so. Stay outside the flags is a simple rule.
Eko
(7,399 posts)A political person hugging people in line to vote would be so. But I didnt say that, I just said a person hugging someone could be. Just a regular ol person.
JohnnyRingo
(18,672 posts)It has to be a longer law than "No handing out gifts or water to voters in line".
Now it's "Handing out water to people in line is alright if the person isn't part of a campaign, making suggestions, wearing a MAGA hat, and there's no advertising on the water label. If someone absolutely has to get a hug right now, and they can't possibly wait until after they vote, they probably aren't old enough to vote. There is no valid reason to accost citizens one way or the other when they're trying to cast a ballot.
How about "Stay beyond the flag line unless you're voting". If people want the stuff you're handing out, they can walk 150 feet and get it of their own volition.
Eko
(7,399 posts)No campaigning in the voter line withing so many feet. Just giving out water is not campaigning. Simple.
JohnnyRingo
(18,672 posts)...into campaigning, and so could any other candidate on a last minute blitz.
Stay behind the flags. Voters can come out and get the water.
Better yet, how about civic groups and churches drop off water the night before for precinct workers to distribute?
Eko
(7,399 posts)Arrested for possible political whispering according to the logic you are using.
JohnnyRingo
(18,672 posts)I assume that's what the cousin was doing as well, so hug away.
But if that cousin was from somewhere else, and driving down the road when he decided to stop and see who's voting and thinks he can hang out in what is already a long line, wait in the parking lot.
Getting a bit ridiculous now.
Eko
(7,399 posts)You are now saying people can not hug someone if they are in the voting line. Going down the rabbit hole a bit aren't you? Might be time for you to just take a moment and think about this.
Eko
(7,399 posts)According to your logic you can have no contact with anyone in the voter line. You cant tell your friend that gave you a ride or is giving you a ride home to meet you at the 7-11 afterwards, you cant text them or call them on a cell phone. Might be telling them who to vote for!!! If their house is on fire can you tell them? In person or by text or phone? "Hey your house is on fire make sure you vote for (insert politicians name). Do we really have to give up the right of speech or even water to vote? Electioneering is electioneering, giving water is giving water, you can do both at the same time of course. Might as well make walking illegal since people have to walk to the line to electioneer. I cant believe there is someone on DU, someone so respected as well, making this argument.
JohnnyRingo
(18,672 posts)There would be no bickering if there was just a rule that said "Stay outside the flag line unless you're voting". That's pretty much a cover-all.
How about civic groups and churches drop off refreshments the night before for the poll workers to hand out. Anonymously of course. Dark Aqua Fina.
Eko
(7,399 posts)to fix a problem that doesn't exist you open the door to fascism. Someone might whisper something while giving out water, make it illegal. Not what I expect to find on DU.
Eko
(7,399 posts)Really?
maxsolomon
(33,446 posts)Poll workers should hand out water.
JohnnyRingo
(18,672 posts)There should be enough money in the county election fund to aide and protect the voters in long hot lines. If not, it could be donated beforehand by civic groups. A Super Soaker sounds like fun. Seriously, with your way, there's no reason anyone else should engage the voters.
63 Replies with 1 rec has to be a record.
I was about this popular in Junior High.
Eko
(7,399 posts)But I dont see republican legislators and republicans in charge of voting in those states to make that happen at all. Its the "in a perfect world" that we dont have.
meadowlander
(4,411 posts)I feel like the focus should be on why it's so difficult to vote in the first place, not whether or not you can give out snacks in the massive line that shouldn't be there in the first place.
LizBeth
(9,952 posts)not allowed.
ecstatic
(32,770 posts)declared that they will overturn local/county election boards and/or results when they see fit. That means hundreds of thousands of votes will be tossed in Fulton, Dekalb, and other Democratic strongholds in the state.
Nobody goes to the polls for the purpose of getting free water, but I get it, the no-water rule is an easier concept for the masses to digest.
yellowdogintexas
(22,283 posts)the whole water thing was put in to be the "inflammatory side show" to draw folks' attention away from the real issues. We can't let the state legislatures get control over the electors, or dispute the vote. We can't make our County Election Directors be rendered powerless
northoftheborder
(7,575 posts)...should not have to stand in line for hours.........even with water, and pizza, or whatever......
Response to JohnnyRingo (Original post)
mahina This message was self-deleted by its author.
MichMan
(12,001 posts)I live in a rural area, so while we have to wait a little while, I have never seen anything like the lines of several hours in minority areas that are mentioned.
Are these only found in red states?
kentuck
(111,110 posts)...requiring states to supply water to all voters who have to stand in a line for more than an hour.
RANDYWILDMAN
(2,678 posts)I have been voting since 1990 and rarely if ever stood in much of a line. Mail in since 2000
We as a country have ignored infrastructure since longer then that in this country.
Voting is an ignored infrastructure issue. We are 30 years past when we should ever have lines to vote.
Either put more machines where the lines are *poor and minorities * democrats or everybody votes by mail with tracking lists to match the votes to the voter
yellowdogintexas
(22,283 posts)USALiberal
(10,877 posts)CrackityJones75
(2,403 posts)You cant campaign at the polling place so putting a partisan label on something is clearly already covered. Likewise spreading campaign propaganda is usually covered in most states election laws no? I could be wrong but I think all of that stuff seems to be covered already.