The Chauvin defense that he had underlying health issues is easy to beat.

[MineralMan]

Ask the expert witness, "Would George Floyd have died at that time had he not had that officers knee on his neck?"

"No. Probably he would not have."

"So, the knee on his neck for over 9 minutes was the immediate cause of Mr. Floyd's death."

"Yes."

Done and done.

George Floyd would still be walking around, alive, had Chauvin not knelt on his neck for 9+ minutes, just like most people with his medical issues. He was murdered.

[csziggy]

1. Would a healthy person have died with their airway blocked for 8 mins 46 secs?

For that long, it doesn't matter if there were underlying health issues or not - after air is cut off for that long, they are dead.

[MineralMan]

3. Compression of the carotid artery, as well.

The Vagus nerve is also involved.

Those would be good follow-up questions. The real point, however, is that he would still be alive had that cop not knelt on his neck. That's a very easy thing for the jury to understand, and it is the jury who will decide this case.

He would be alive, but he is dead, due to the actions of Officer Chauvin. Period.

[Ocelot II]

2. This is correct. It doesn't matter that Floyd's health wasn't very good,

or even that he had taken drugs (evidence of which was introduced for the additional purpose of making him look like a worthless druggie so that his killing might not seem so egregious). The defense is suggesting that he still could have ended up dead if he'd arrested in the usual way, handcuffed in the squad car and taken downtown for booking - that he had a bad heart and had taken dangerous drugs, which, because of his agitated state, probably would have caused a heart attack anyhow, and that holding him down for nine minutes with a knee on his neck wouldn't have made any difference in the outcome.

A very tough sell, IMO.

[MineralMan]

5. It is the weakest of defenses.

The point is that the jury needs to hear that he would still be alive. That is the thing the jurors will remember during deliberation.

[rgbecker]

4. This "Underlying Health Issue" has come up often in the 2020 political fights.

We heard all about it as the anti-masking, hoax promoters of the Covid - 19 pandemic tried to explain the deaths of 1/2 million.

"Oh," they say, "He would have died anyway".

Its just like the flu.

Its what happens if you tried to spend a counterfeit $20, whether you knew it was counterfeit or not.

[aeromanKC]

6. Defense seems to be implying it's OK to shoot someone who is having a heart attack

Because after all, he was going to die anyway from the heart attack.

[The Magistrate]

7. A Murderer Takes His Victims As He Finds Them, Sir

If there is some weakness not immediately evident, that does not matter. The death remains the responsibility of the assailant.

[MineralMan]

8. Indeed!

[dragonlady]

15. The eggshell skull rule

Part of our law for centuries.

[Solomon]

20. I was about to say that. First year of law school. A murder takes his victims as he finds them.

[KentuckyWoman]

9. Yesterday

Defence claimed the gathering crowd was a security issue. He just sort of left it there, as if it is the crowd yelling to get off that was at fault for Chauvin kneeling on him.

Today it is Floyd's medical issues that forced Chauvin to kneel on him.

This defence so far is really strange.

[MineralMan]

10. There is no effective defense available.

The defense team is just throwing pasta at the wall to see if anything sticks.

Pure victim-blaming.

[Ocelot II]

19. The defense is basically damage control.

When you have a crappy case and you know it, what you do is try to make the outcome optimally less bad. The lawyer is going to try to make the facts line up with the offense that will carry the least onerous sentence. Second degree murder gets you 40 years, third-degree murder gets you 25 years, and second-degree manslaughter gets you 10 years. That's "culpable negligence whereby the person creates an unreasonable risk, and consciously takes chances of causing death or great bodily harm to another." The defense is trying to present facts suggesting Floyd didn't die on account of Chauvin's actions at all, but I think he's trying to set up a scenario where a jury could find Chauvin to have been merely negligent, thereby getting him the the shortest sentence under the manslaughter statute.

[LAS14]

12. Well stated. So logical. I do hope the prosecution uses this this clearly. nt

[MineralMan]

13. I'm sure they will use it effectively.

They will have the medical examiner or coroner on the stand for that line of questioning.

The defense will probably bring in an "expert" witness, as well, but they have no way for someone to prove that he would have died anyhow. There are countless people walking around and doing things with all of those medical "issues." They don't just drop dead.

[multigraincracker]

14. I want to see the blood test

from the cop. Hell, they test the victim and not the killer.

[Neema]

16. If you strangle someone with a terminal illness until they're dead,

you get tried for murder. Whether or not you knew they had a terminal illness, whether or not they might have died a week or a day later naturally, they died by your hand and you are a murderer.

[MineralMan]

17. Yes, exactly. And having a counterfeit $20 bill is not a capital offense, either.

[Neema]

18. No it's not. And even if it was, cops do not get to be judge, jury and

executioner. At least they're not supposed to be.

[Midnight Writer]

21. If I chase an old man down the street with a chainsaw, and he has a heart attack,

then I'm not culpable?

That's an interesting legal theory.

I reckon the answer depends on the skin color of the dead man.