Was I wrong? (re: not cool dealing with healthcare workers without vaccine)

[consider_this]

I don't think so, but just looking for a check from folks here.

I have avoided dentists, docs, opticians, etc - anyone who would be in close contact with me (and a stream of prior others) during this pandemic. However, now that I have my vax doses and the 2 wk waiting period, I am doing all these appointments.

So today - I have an 8am (first appt. of the day, intentionally) dental appt. The lovely and nice hygienist greets me and I ask - 'so, you have your shots?". She says 'no'.
I am very taken aback by this, but continue with her discussing plans for x-rays, asking the usual questions etc. Then I ask 'gee, I thought all healthcare folks were able to have had their shots already.'
She says 'well, I chose not to.' She is behind me now and I am thinking 'WTF?!" then she says - "is that making you uncomfortable?" - Me: 'Sorry, but yeah, I am kinda uncomfortable'.
Anyway she decides to get the doc, who comes in and says, he will do the cleaning etc - we just have to reschedule. It was all friendly and good, etc, but this was all just weird to me. As we were walking out to the front desk, I told her - 'hey, no offense to you or anything, but I have waited all this time (last 1.5 yr) because I want to avoid risks, and not even being with my grandkids - so you are getting the same distancing as them. this is not political or anything, I just don't want to take chances, especially after being so careful for so long.'
Once we get out to the desk to reschedule, they say, "yes, the dentist himself will do it!" - but I ask - "that is great, but if there is a hygienist that has their shots that is fine with me too." "We don't have any".

So what in the the heck?! - is it weird that this practice has not even one hygienist that has shots??! and was I bad to stand my ground and walk out?

I will say, I do not have 100% confidence in the shot for my own protection, and certainly not for my ability to spread to others - so I don't want to be in a situation to catch something I could spread to others I love or to get sick either.

Anyone else do something like this or am I Covid PTSD?

[DURHAM D]

1. I have the same issue.

I am protecting them but they are not protecting me. Had this discussion with my dentist today.

[Raven123]

2. Not weird. I made the same inquiry. Fortunately, the reply was reassuring

[Croney]

3. I'd be wondering about the dentist's shots as well.

Did you ask?

[consider_this]

5. He told me he was fully vaccinated!

If he didn't volunteer it, you know I would've asked!

[mnhtnbb]

4. I have an appointment for first dental cleaning

since Feb 2020. It didn't occur to me to ask when I scheduled it if the hygienist will have had shots. Thanks for the suggestion.

My 2 weeks post second vax was Monday.

I'm having a haircut this Friday, but everyone is masked. Again, first haircut since Feb 2020.

[consider_this]

9. yeah, docs, haircut, etc -is a bit different.

at dentist, you are there with your mouth and nose full out and close up with them. No thanks, antivaxxer healthcare 'professionals'.

[mnhtnbb]

14. Exactly.

[FSogol]

11. I had a cleaning last week. When they confirmed the appt, they told me the entire staff got

vaccinated.

[Blue_true]

17. If the hygienist is wearing full PPE, that is good enough, IMO.

People that don’t wear full PPE and won the get vaccinated will never get close to me unless I am unconscious.

[tanyev]

6. Would she have worn full PPE?

I don't blame you at all, but I did go to the dentist before the vaccine was available to anyone and they had gloves, smocks, masks and shields on. I felt very safe. It does boggle my mind that there are any health care workers that would choose not to get the vaccine, but as long as they continue with full PPE, I guess there's no reason they can't do the job. You could always call around and try to find a new dentist's office.

[SunImp]

35. Yeah, as long as the staff has proper medical masks, shields and gloves I think it would be safe

enough to go to these places.

[Ms. Toad]

7. I haven't done something like this -

BUT in more than a year I have been unmasked inside with people outside of my household a grand total of 16 times. 12 of those for dental care (Root canal, crown, a tooth that split in two take multiple visits.

I'm relatively comfortable with the mask + shield my dentist uses - BUT - even though they tell me to take my mask off immediately when I get into the chair, I do pull it back up whenever they are not actively working on me.

That said, your question and reaction are totally reasonable.

I'm far more worried about people who believe that now that they are vaccinated indoor restaurants (with a whole heap of unknown, more likely than average to be risk-takers) is perfectly fine.

[consider_this]

16. You raise a very important point...

I think many people with the vax now think it is cool to travel and do all sort of things that they really ought not to be doing. I think it is already starting to be a undesired side effect of many getting their doses - 'time to cut lose'. I mean who doesn't want to, but it still really is not advised.

[Blue_true]

8. Find another Dentist.

Before selecting the practice, ask whether people in close contact with you are COVID19 vaccinated.

[Tumbulu]

37. Absolutely agree!

Do not go back there.

I know this is really a hard thing to suggest, but no way no way no way allow an unvaccinated kook to get in your mouth!

And these people are kooks. Full stop! I know, I once was all worried about vaccines and hung out with this crowd. And still run into them here and there.

[Blue_true]

40. The poster said that the Dentist is vaccinated.

But it is likely that the Dentist will do the cleaning in a room that the hygienist use regularly. So that person would have been in there minutes before the Dentist does the cleaning. SARS-COV-2 can hang in the air for a while, the person will be there, mouth open, nose exposed, sucking in air in gulps due to the cleaning. Not a good situation, IMO.

[consider_this]

44. Hmmm...

OP here - you got me thinking to not go, however -
I picked first appt of the day - so doubt the room has been heavily breathed in - even if so, that hygienist was wearing a mask. (It is more like the air of the patients who you know will not have mask and are of unknown vaccine status that could be offering the pollutants- and it is first appt. so hopefully avoiding that problem)

Mask or not, IMO no one should be that close to another as is done in dental procedure at this time, but if both patient and health pro have vaccinations and health pro is masked, that seems not to risky - so I think I will brave it.

[Blue_true]

51. Use your judgement, you know your Dentist.

I my case, I would stop going to even a longtime Dentist that had a vaccine hesitant person working there. If the hygienist has worked with you before, you should have a feel whether the person is likely antivax or simply believe COVID19 is a hoax and is simply wearing a mask to keep a job (but don’t bother to wear them outside of work) - if she seem to be a Covid truth we, there is no way that I would continue to use her for a procedure where I sometimes bleed and always have some of the most delicate tissue in my body exposed to the habits of the hygienist. Just my view, like I said, use your own judgement.

I have been lucky, all the professionals that I have needed services from during the pandemic have been very rigorous about Covid protocols and I have yet to see a sloppy masker or get an antivax vibe from anyone in the offices during visits.

Early on during the pandemic, while out shopping, I saw two nurses on separate instances walk into a store unmasked. So there are people like that out there, I just have lucky that I don’t deal with any.

[5X]

10. I have put off lots of things since the pandemic,

colonoscopy, torn shoulder ligaments, past due for new glasses and a physical.

[FreeState]

20. Same here except for

My yearly colonoscopy, the alternative is not worth it to me.

I get my second shot Sunday and can’t wait to know I’ve done my part!

[spinbaby]

25. Me, too

I did go for a diagnostic mammogram with a biopsy because they had found something suspicious on the last mammogram. That seemed important. But I’m overdue for a colonoscopy, which is important because of family history. I’ve needed glasses for over a year. It’s all getting done now that I’m vaccinated, but carefully.

[wnylib]

48. I went to an optical appointment

Last summer, before there were any shots available. Just a routine checkup on my vision after having cataract surgery the year before. Everyone wore masks. Staff wiped down seats and sanitized equipment immediately after each patient. Seating was spaced in the waiting room and number of patients allowed into the office was limited. Some people had to wait in cars before being allowed inside to keep the number inside at a minimum. Temp check and questionaire on entering.

I felt reasonably safe.

[Blue_true]

42. I got reading glasses late last year. The office was exceptionally well

run in regards to SARS-COV-2. I was informed of the strict procedures when I made the appointment and I got a temperature check and mask use check (number of ply, whether I had it worn properly. I had no concerns at all about my safety as I waited to be examined and fitted for glasses. All the staff was masked and there was no bullshit around that, I witnessed equipment being cleaned and allowed to dry before each person was examined - it slowed things down, but seeing that made me more comfortable.

[LisaL]

12. Totally normal.

I plan to do the same thing. I haven't had a cleaning during a pandemic, but when I go (after reaching full immunity), I am asking them if they are vaccinated.

[jrthin]

15. Same here. I asked

the pharmacists who administered my 1st shot if she had been vaccinated. She said, no. I asked her why. She said she hadn't gotten around to it. She came down several notches in my eye.

[TxGuitar]

18. I was just at my dentist

In early March, after I had both doses of Pfizer. Surprisingly the hygienist said that none of them had been able to schedule appointments as they were not considered first line healthcare providers. The dentist had received his first dose. When I went back 3 weeks later all staff had received first doses.

[Rhiannon12866]

46. Same with me. The hygienist wasn't able to be vaccinated yet as of last month, she's under 30

While my dentist is older and had been fully vaccinated. And all always wear full PPE.

[marybourg]

19. I had the same situation, but elected to go ahead

with the cleaning. Two weeks ago. Doing fine. I’m fully vaccinated.

In her defense, she’d just started working again that week after four years home with kids. So ‘til then, she wasn’t a front line medical worker. But I sense she was vaccine hesitant, anyway.

[magicarpet]

22. No not unreasonable,... no not hyper-diaper concerned,...

No not rude,.... no not minding someone else's business.

You are the captain of your own ship. You have a right/obligation to chart a course for that ship while making all efforts to steer clear of potential danger zones.

This Covid is a new thing, medical people are struggling to keep themselves up to date with new findings for mitigation protocols.

You have yourself, your family, your grandkids to be concerned about ss you navigate this pandemic riddle. A safe, a well plotted out course of action, and favoring caution is your prerogative.

Carry on politely,... but don't be ashamed to stand up for or feel the need to apologize for defending your and your family's best interests.

[consider_this]

24. Thank you! n/t

[magicarpet]

32. This virus is mutating. There are many trumpets who refuse the vaccine,...

.... the fewer people who get inoculated the higher the chance that new stronger strains and variants of this virus will possibly compound and prolong this pandemic.

We are not done with this yet by a long shot. The death rate has taken another curve up we seem to be going into phase #4. These. Governors cancelling the mask mandates and ignoring social distancing are causing this death rate climb.

[consider_this]

34. Yep! it is getting more difficult to communicate to people...

I try to explain these things to people that, even up to now, were following the science and being respectful of the power of this virus, but now they too have stars in their eyes thinking we are on the big upswing now that some people have shots and the 'leaders' are letting up on the restrictions. Hard to convey these messages because people are just all so tired of it all, but I am not going to screw up after being diligent for so long.

[magicarpet]

36. Watch this when you get a chance. It is about the pandemic of the black death,...

... that hit Asia and Europe in the 14th Century.

[progree]

23. Good to be very cautious: 21% increase in U.S. daily new cases, 7 day moving average in the last 7 d

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/us/coronavirus-us-cases.html

U.S. Daily new cases, 7 day moving average
3/22: 54,052 (lowest point since fall)
3/29: 65,385 (latest)
+21.0%

although still way down from the 259,616 peak on Jan 8.

But well above the first wave peak in April

And just below the top of the second wave peak in late July

============================

Globally daily new cases are up 56% since February 19, and 30% in the

last 2 weeks (7 day moving averages)
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/world/coronavirus-maps.html

[Blue_true]

45. I am concerned that with the no mask idiots, coupled with the

Antivaxx idiots, coupled with variants that have shown the capacity to reduce the vaccine effectiveness, totally vaccinated people will get infected and the infecting virus will form a mutant that completely defeats vaccines.

[progree]

57. To add to your excellent list -- formerly cautious people who, now vaccinated, think they can go

completely back to their old ways. It's my understanding that while the vaccines are virtually 100% as far as protection against hospitalizations and deaths for the vaccinated person, they are not 100% effective in keeping a person from catching it and spreading it. On top of that, we don't really know how long the vaccinations are effective for.

EDIT: Actually you did cover that in your post, but well, just for emphasis.

And I'm not sure all the vaccines are 100% effective for all the known variants as far as hospitalizations and deaths -- I don't think we have enough data.

[Blue_true]

59. Very good points. There is just so much that we don't know about SARS-COV-2,

the fact that it is first cousins with four common cold coronaviruses that we have NEVER found a cure for gives me the yipes. Were each of those four common colds, at one time in distant human history, deadly?

[Mr.Bill]

26. My daughter is an RN and administrator

at our small local hospital. As in any small hospital, she wears more then one hat at work and has many responsibilities. She is the vaccine coordinator now. She says one third of the staff have refused the vaccine. Now, keep in mind, the word "staff" includes many non-professionals like cafeteria workers, housekeepers, grounds crew and office people who have no patient contact. But that number still surprises me, and it does include many people with higher education who do have patient contact. Of course, everyone is wearing masks and taking all possible precautions.

[consider_this]

27. minor edit suggestion...

"Of course, everyone is wearing masks and taking all possible precautions."

Of course, everyone is wearing masks and taking all possible precautions except getting vaccinated.

[Mr.Bill]

30. Well, that's obvious in the text

of the post.

[consider_this]

31. LOL - just getting in the snark mood - no offense intended! :-)

[Mr.Bill]

54. None taken.

[consider_this]

29. you calling me 'Karen' for this?

or do i misread?

[magicarpet]

33. Jeez.....

[Tumbulu]

38. Oh my goodness, how upsetting!

But you did absolutely the correct thing.

I wonder if there is anyway to go to a different dentists and check before hand if everyone in the office was fully vaccinated.

[tiptonic]

39. I did the same

Changing dentist because the hygienist and dentist did not have a mask on, until they started poking around in my mouth. Not to mention, having Fox news on and asking me if I was a 'bible scholar'. I will no longer
suffer fools'.

[consider_this]

41. Yikes!

Yours was worse! yah - stay clear of that joint.

[dflprincess]

52. Even without Covid the "Bible scholar" thing would have been enough for me.

I'm shocked about the mask though, my dentist and hygienist have never been without masks and gloves when they were working on me.

[Blasphemer]

43. Totally reasonable and it brings up an issue I am worried about...

How can we verify the vaccination status of those offering services to public? Not just health care workers but those who work in restaurants, grocery stores, etc. I would 100% limit my consumption of services to places where all workers are fully vaccinated but there is not reliable system in place to make that possible. It's not enough for someone to assure me that they are vaccinated. I want verification.

[yellowdogintexas]

47. my husband almost walked out on an appointment because of exposed noses

by patients in the very tiny waiting room. He had a long discussion with the office manager about it . So they worked out that if he gets there and sees it going on they will bring him in through the employee entrance.

Otherwise he may be looking for a new dentist which he does not want to do

We are now fully vaccinated so he may not feel as angry by the time he has to go back.

[dflprincess]

49. Everyone at my dentist's office has had their shots

but when I was at the periodontist a couple weeks ago the hygienist and the dentist had just had their first shots.

People at both offices told me that dental offices were not given the priority other healthcare workers were (or as my general dentist told me, getting the vaccine was like "pulling teeth" - a little dentist humor). At least that was the case in Minnesota.

And, frankly, the way the hygienists are gowned, masked, and gloved I felt safe with them even before the vaccine was being distributed and worried I was more of a risk to them than they were to me.

[dlk]

50. With any type of healthcare, including dental care, you must be your own advocate

It’s the world we live in. If that means walking out of a practice to ensure your safety, by all means, leave. Your personal health and safety are worth it.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

53. I don't know why it's not mandatory for healthcare workers.

My partner’s (healthcare) co worker, that he works tight quarters with, is so far holding off on the shot.

I guess she is borderline anti vax because she bitches and moans every year when she is forced to get the flu vaccine.

[Mr.Bill]

56. It's kind of a legal grey area.

In the case of our local hospital, their union contract protects them from vaccines being mandatory.

Every year, there are people who refuse the flu shot for allergic, religious or other personal reasons. Those who refuse it are required to wear masks at all times when on company premises.

In the case of these current vaccines, because they are authorized on an emergency basis, even members of the military can refuse them.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

58. Yeah my partner's hospital had that accommodation for the flu vaccine but they made it...

... mandatory a couple years ago.

Yeah, I’ve heard that about the COVID vax. So I wonder when this vax is no longer experimental?

[Laura PourMeADrink]

55. You were spot on! So many idiots not enough time.

[babylonsister]

60. I had surgery yesterday. The pre-op

nurse had not been vaccinated. When I asked why, she claimed it was because she didn't want to register and thought it unfair that people without computers couldn't get in line (she has two relatives without computers). I told her phone numbers were also provided on sign-up sites, but she was non-responsive.

[BobTheSubgenius]

61. I don't think any of your precautions and questions are out of life.

It's potentially your LIFE, and it is possible to catch this virus from all different kinds of contact. No point whatsoever in having contact that makes you uncomfortable.