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This is what we need to return to for federal income tax rates. (Original Post) roamer65 Apr 2021 OP
As you say, tweaking needed. Karadeniz Apr 2021 #1
I'll do you better than that, but it'll have to wait until I'm not on a mobile device JHB Apr 2021 #2
Even adjusting for inflation Dr. Shepper Apr 2021 #3
Run your numbers thru an inflation calculator. roamer65 Apr 2021 #4
This message was self-deleted by its author Dave in VA Apr 2021 #5
In today's dollars, that would be 50% at the 115K bracket. That would bankrupt many Scrivener7 Apr 2021 #6
1982 dollars. roamer65 Apr 2021 #14
But local taxes have exploded since 1981. State income tax up, doc03 Apr 2021 #7
Disagree JustAnotherGen Apr 2021 #8
Those tables have a MASSIVE marriage penalty - possible made some sense when more kelly1mm Apr 2021 #9
Yes. WarGamer Apr 2021 #10
Or a GST. roamer65 Apr 2021 #13
absolutely... WarGamer Apr 2021 #16
There should be a smaller GST on non-luxury items. roamer65 Apr 2021 #17
We do need more brackets that stretch higher up the income scale, though the details... JHB Apr 2021 #11
I like your analysis. roamer65 Apr 2021 #12
How about raising capital gains and corporate taxes instead? tinrobot Apr 2021 #15
I have no problem with it. roamer65 Apr 2021 #18

JHB

(37,160 posts)
2. I'll do you better than that, but it'll have to wait until I'm not on a mobile device
Fri Apr 2, 2021, 03:20 PM
Apr 2021

'Nother hour and a half, two hrs.

Dr. Shepper

(3,014 posts)
3. Even adjusting for inflation
Fri Apr 2, 2021, 03:22 PM
Apr 2021

This would mean after mortgage and basic bills (including student loans and medical) were paid, we would have nothing left even for groceries.

No thank you.

ETA - we moved to the Midwest so our mortgage is basically the cost of rent we paid on the west coast. We would have to give up the house, no more extracurriculars for the kid, and no trips home to see the family.

roamer65

(36,745 posts)
4. Run your numbers thru an inflation calculator.
Fri Apr 2, 2021, 03:23 PM
Apr 2021

You will be shocked at level of currency devaluation since 1982.


https://www.bls.gov/data/inflation_calculator.htm

Adjust the brackets however...but these rates need to come back to plug the budget hole.

Response to roamer65 (Original post)

roamer65

(36,745 posts)
14. 1982 dollars.
Fri Apr 2, 2021, 10:41 PM
Apr 2021

Today’s dollar is worth on 36 cents in 1982. Nearly 2/3 of purchasing power has been lost since then.

doc03

(35,332 posts)
7. But local taxes have exploded since 1981. State income tax up,
Fri Apr 2, 2021, 04:29 PM
Apr 2021

real estate taxes up and sales tax has doubled here. Reagan's cuts shifted the tax burden to the states.

kelly1mm

(4,733 posts)
9. Those tables have a MASSIVE marriage penalty - possible made some sense when more
Fri Apr 2, 2021, 05:31 PM
Apr 2021

spouses did not work out of the home.

WarGamer

(12,440 posts)
10. Yes.
Fri Apr 2, 2021, 05:36 PM
Apr 2021

Replace 39.6 (currently 37%) with 50%

Keep write-offs as they are today, NOT like it was in the 70's...

Wealth tax and "per transaction" Wall Street tax... oh and tax Capital Gains as normal income.

And a .01% VAT tax for 10 years to help pay for C19 expenses

WarGamer

(12,440 posts)
16. absolutely...
Fri Apr 2, 2021, 11:03 PM
Apr 2021

C19 cost the country at least $4T, probably $6T by the time we're through it...

Time to pay the bills... with the rich shouldering most of it.

roamer65

(36,745 posts)
17. There should be a smaller GST on non-luxury items.
Sat Apr 3, 2021, 12:01 AM
Apr 2021

Luxury items should have a higher rate...near double.

JHB

(37,160 posts)
11. We do need more brackets that stretch higher up the income scale, though the details...
Fri Apr 2, 2021, 06:00 PM
Apr 2021

...should be open for debate. The main goal is reversing what the 80s ushered in, that the highest virtue was shooting money skyward -- as much as possible, as fast as possible, as high as possible. Even with all the loopholes that let the well-off and wealthy avoid paying the top rates, the old high-level brackets put a damper in that upward geyser (and many of the loopholes still helped push money outward rather than upward). It was the 80s tax cuts and other policies that removed that damper and eliminated drawbacks to grabbing for every last dollar.

Back during the centennial of the Income Tax in 2013, the Tax Foundation put out a spreadsheet of historical tax rates (in both original and inflation-adjusted terms). Since "Is $250K/year 'rich'?" was still making the rounds in tax discussions (or blather, from some sources) and I know things had been very different pre-Reagan, I crunched some numbers and wound up focusing on the number and spread of brackets rather than the rates themselves.

For instance, here's the distribution of brackets from 1942 to 2013 (using 'married couple filing jointly' inflation-adjusted data):



I used 1942 as a start because in inflation-adjusted numbers spiked so far upward before then (and even more just before the Roosevelt administration but quickly came back to a less-astronomical top bracket boundary) that I would have needed to build a "skip" in the graph, and my Excel skills weren't up to that.

The compression of rates as you move forward in time is how inflation shows up in the inflation-adjusted numbers, and you can see when various tax reform efforts changed things. It wasn't until the mid-80s that tax brackets indexed to inflation and stayed relatively steady across years.

But look how far up the income spectrum those past brackets ran. To pick one year, "good old 1955" as the movie said, there were 24 brackets. Adjusted for inflation, 16 of them affected taxable income over $250K. Two thirds of all the brackets. 11 of those affected income over the equivalent of $500K. About 45% of the brackets. The top rate (91% that year) kicked in for taxable income over the equivalent of about $3.3 million.

Here's the yearly breakdown for total brackets vs number affecting inflation-adjusted income over $250K and $500K:


The reason I think raising awareness of these bracket spreads rather than the raw rates is because how it changes the framing and terms of the debate. Instead of going hammer and tongs over particular thresholds like $250K or $400K, it points up that there is a lot more room to maneuver. Historical bracket levels were wiped out in the 80s and have never returned. They should, even if the actual rates are open to debate.

tinrobot

(10,899 posts)
15. How about raising capital gains and corporate taxes instead?
Fri Apr 2, 2021, 10:54 PM
Apr 2021

Most rich people don't make money off of W2 income. This would punish workers and professionals.

roamer65

(36,745 posts)
18. I have no problem with it.
Sat Apr 3, 2021, 12:02 AM
Apr 2021

But income beyond $10M, for instance, should be taxed at 45 pct rate at a minimum.

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