If you don't like Hemmingway, DON'T READ HIM

[orangecrush]

Last edited Mon Apr 5, 2021, 06:42 PM - Edit history (2)

That is all.

[CurtEastPoint]

1. Hemingway

[orangecrush]

53. Critic!

[USALiberal]

2. Maybe spell his name correctly?? nt

[Treefrog]

12. Yes. Important.

I was a big Hemingway fan back in my younger years. Haven’t read him in forever, but some lines are etched in my mind.

[multigraincracker]

14. If you google 15 famous bad spellers

Look who is number 4

ERNEST HEMINGWAY
Ernest Hemingway may not have had much room to judge when it came to his friend Fitzgerald not spelling his name correctly. Long before the days of spell check, Hemingway had to rely on newspaper and book editors to catch his mistakes, a job which they often complained would be a lot easier if he would make an effort to spell things correctly (though Hemingway retorted that that’s what they were being paid to do).

[LAS14]

23. Thanks for this. But how did you find it in the first place? Surely you...

.... didn't wake up one morning and think, "I'm going to Google 'Fifteen famous bad spellers?'"

tia
las

[multigraincracker]

32. I suffer from a few learning disabilities that affect my language skills.

Various forms of dyslexia and dysgraphia that affect spelling and speech. I've searched for others that fall with in those spectrums.

I lived for 40 years without those diagnosis. Went back to college in my 40s and got a degree in clinical psychology. My first years in college failed. I went back with what I learned from my shrink and graduated Magna Cum Laude. So, knowing about it has change my life.

[LAS14]

36. Wo! Glad I asked and read this inspiring mini-biography! nt

[Poiuyt]

80. I used to be the director of a dyslexia clinic

What you figured out was a different way to learn. The traditional way works for most people, but not those with dyslexia.

As an aside, you should check out the book, "The Dyslexic Advantage." I liked to quote from that book to reassure parents that their child wasn't stupid (as many of them fear).

[multigraincracker]

81. I read a book by our friend Thom Hartman

years ago. It helped a lot.
I have no problem reading, but language skills suck.
Thanks.

[electric_blue68]

93. I have a minimal level of dyslexia...

it may have contributed to me being a lousy speller. Otherwise it's really hasn't effected me I just notice it on a rare occasion.

The only thing that alerted me in thevearly '00s is I was watching the first Lord of the Rings movie. There's a monster at one point called a Balrog.

I got confused for a few seconds as the name was called out - then I realized when I first readthe book over 35 years earlier I'd read it as Barlog.
Not having heard anyone pronounce it previously and on rereading the book never caught the mistake...

[TuxedoKat]

100. Hmmm

I like Barlog better. 😄

[electric_blue68]

104. 😄 I finally got used to "Balrog"! 😁

[orangecrush]

55. ....

[orangecrush]

54. I did!

What are you talking about?

[USALiberal]

61. Hemingway

[orangecrush]

62. It's a joke

Hemingway was a terrible speller.

So am I.

[USALiberal]

65. Lol, ok, good one, I should've picked that up. Nt

[orangecrush]

64. What's really weird

Is before posting, I googled "Ernest Hemmingway" and the result I got used 2 "m's", so I assumed it was correct!

[DFW]

94. He's in good company

The name of Thomas Jefferson's mistress, Sally Hemings, often gets spelled "Hemmings."

[mitch96]

3. The PBS program is on tonite... nt

[Treefrog]

27. Thanks! I didn't know this!

A definite must watch.

[eissa]

77. Thanks, I'm recording the series now

Loved the first episode, but I’m a fan of anything Ken Burns produces.

[mitch96]

99. "I'm a fan of anything Ken Burns". meeeee toooooo!!! nt

[whathehell]

4. Is there an anti- Hemingway crusade going on, or something?

Some context would be helpful.

[whistler162]

16. Something to do with the special on him... I guess

[orangecrush]

56. YES

NPR spent an hour apologizing for his bad marriages, attitudes toward women, alcoholism, machismo, etc. etc.

[whathehell]

67. Why should NPR (or anyone) 'apologize' for him?

He was who he was.

[LanternWaste]

85. I see... you're pretending a literary and social critique is an apology.

Tough old world when others don't posses the same sacred cows we do and don't take off the kid gloves to better assuage our inerrant sensibilities.

[Cuthbert Allgood]

97. Well, his attitudes toward women was for shit.

And his Jewish stereotypes were awful.

[Buckeye_Democrat]

5. Agree.

I liked Hemingway in grade school. Like him now. Will like him as an old man. While living at sea.

[TreasonousBastard]

6. No idea where this is coming from, but I like him and I read him.

[Polly Hennessey]

7. Love the first two paragraphs of a

“Farewell to Arms.” I can see the dust powder the leaves as the soldiers march by. The last line of the same novel is powerful as he leaves the hospital after Catherine’s death. The Sun Also Rises is another favorite.

[TheBlackAdder]

11. A shout out to Ash from Evil Dead.

.



.

[smirkymonkey]

8. What prompted this?

Personally, I don't like him and I don't read him. Anymore. I had to read him at one point to decide whether or not I liked his writing.

[Johonny]

9. I love that he misspelled words, I assume on purpose

And when his editor complained, he told them that's why he paid them.

His books are very good.

[DonViejo]

10. How do you know you don't like Hemingway if you don't read him? eom

[orangecrush]

57. As a human being.

NPR had a lot to say about that this a.m..

[LanternWaste]

86. "If you don't like what NRP has to say, don't listen to them!!!"

Six of one, half a dozen of the other.

But I get it... it's more fun to hold ourselves to different standards than we assign to everyone else.

[PatSeg]

13. Don't like him and don't read him

That said, I did try to read him numerous times and eventually realized that I am one of those people who just does not like him, both as an author and a person. When I was very young, I thought there must be something deficient in me that I could not appreciate the genius of this highly acclaimed writer, but eventually I came to realize that it was okay not to share the opinions of others. I cannot force myself to like him anymore than I can force myself to like cilantro.

[bigtree]

17. thank you.

...I found him to be a misogynistic, self-absorbed bore.

[PatSeg]

22. Oh yes, that sums it very succinctly

In some instances, he was even worse than misogynistic. His female characters often were transparent creatures with absolutely no substance or personality whatsoever. Perhaps he could not write what he was unable to see.

[mitch96]

47. "I found him to be a misogynistic, self-absorbed bore." My Aunt went to Key West back in

The 1920's She said it was a wild town where anything went. She was at a party and met Mr H.. She found him "to be a misogynistic, self-absorbed bore." trying to get into every woman's knickers. Aunt Lily was a theater person and a real hoot!! I could talk to her for hours...
m

[appalachiablue]

69. What a cool aunt. I've seen Hemingway's

Key West home several times and visited the town for many years.

When it was on the market in the 90s, we toured Tennessee Williams home there, his typewriter was still on a counter in one room, fascinating.

[PatSeg]

76. How incredible to hear from someone

who actually met him in person. Your aunt sounds like she was a fascinating person. You are fortunate to have heard her stories first hand.

[mitch96]

78. She was in the off Off OFF Broadway theater in NYC. She was a book person and loved the

Theater.. She told a funny story about writing porn in the 20's and 30's..It paid WAY more than the Saturday Evening Post. A whole 10¢ per page!! Met a few actors and actresses of note also. Just regular people out of the lime lite.Lily would love to cook so there was always people around her Greenwich Village digs. Neat lady for sure..
m

[Hortensis]

18. Same here. His brilliance was real, but I didn't enjoy any of

his books that I've read. And long ago I tried. In their doomed-to-lose ways, they're high-quality historical fiction, which I'm very fond of. No surprise that he ended his life with suicide, though. And, of course, I am female...

[PatSeg]

24. I took a college English course

and our teacher (a woman no less) adored Hemingway. Well, being I really admired this teacher, I put a lot of effort into seeing what she saw, but came away totally perplexed. Throughout the years, I would try again, knowing that as I got older, my perceptions changed. When I've reread F. Scott Fitzgerald, my appreciation grew considerably, but with Hemingway, it only got worse.

I might add that my first negative impressions of Hemingway as an author were long before I knew what a super asshole he was in real life.

[Hortensis]

31. Funny. My first impression that I remember (looong ago!) was a brief

dismissive line about soldiers who just returned home after the war (to presumably resume care of themselves and those who needed them). I have no idea now if how I took it as a kid was what was meant, but after all these years I remember my objection.

I really should try rereading that. Another 50 or so years on me should change something, I'd hope.

[PatSeg]

37. I think mine was the way he

Last edited Mon Apr 5, 2021, 01:16 PM - Edit history (1)

portrayed Maria in For Whom the Bell Tolls. The men were all macho, bigger-then-life and Maria was almost a nonperson. I thought maybe if I watched the movie first, that might help, but even Ingrid Bergman couldn't breath life into poor Maria. I couldn't even finish the movie and I tried at least a couple of times.

Well, let's make a date to reread him in 50 years and see how we feel then!!!

[Hortensis]

48. Now that you mention Maria, it's a date!

[PatSeg]

49. We can work out the details later!

My calendar doesn't go quite that far.

[betsuni]

51. Have you read "A Moveable Feast"? I love it!

I don't like his fiction, but this memoir is wonderful.

[Iris]

63. I'm reading this now. Just a coincidence that I picked it up right before the Burns film

Read short stories and a couple of novels in h.s. and college. Love his writing and can clearly see him as a deeply flawed and wounded human being.

[betsuni]

66. I especially like the parts about being hungry, and food.

"I should have bought a large piece of bread and eaten it instead of skipping a meal. I could taste the brown lovely crust. But it is dry in your mouth without something to drink. ... Hunger is healthy and the pictures do look better when you are hungry. Easting is wonderful too and do you know where you are going to eat right now? Lipp's is where you are going to eat, and drink too. ... The beer was very cold and wonderful to drink. The pommes a l'huile were firm and marinated and the olive oil delicious. I ground black pepper over the potatoes and moistened the bread in the olive oil. After the first heavy draught of beer I drank and ate very slowly. When the pommes a l'huile were gone I ordered another serving and a cervelas. This was a sausage like a heavy, wide frankfurter split in two and covered with a special mustard sauce. I mopped up all the oil and all of the sauce with bread and drank the beer slowly until it began to lose its coldness and then I finished it and ordered a demi and watched it drawn. It seemed colder than the distingue and I drank half of it."

[bluedigger]

20. I like Hemingway and can't stand Steinbeck.

Literature is Art and we are all entitled to our individual tastes.

[PatSeg]

29. Oh absolutely

I really love these kinds of discussions. Sometimes I even change my mind.

I love John Steinbeck, but I understand that not everyone feels the same. I don't have one favorite author, but Steinbeck would probably be among the top ten, along with F. Scott Fitzgerald, W. Somerset Maugham, Robert Penn Warren, and Evelyn Waugh. Of course, there are many more, but the works of these authors are ones that I have read more than once, which is rare for me.

[lame54]

26. I've never read Cilantro

[PatSeg]

30. Ha, ha, ha!!!

Well, that's a good thing then! Wait until they make the movie.

[Duncan Grant]

105. Keep up the good work.

I’m ending my day with a good chuckle - thanks to you. Much appreciated.

[kcr]

34. Same here. Not a fan n/t

[PatSeg]

42. Apparently, there are quite a few who agree with us

[Raine]

73. Agree, not into him and never will be. nt

[lanlady]

101. same goes for me

We had to read him in high school English and I recall disliking his style from the get-go. As I grew older and learned more about him, I decided I disliked him as a person. I did, though, visit his charming home in Key West, which softened my attitude toward him a bit.

[PatSeg]

103. I had an English teacher in junior college

who adored Hemingway and because I really liked her, I tried to see what she did. I'm afraid I never did.

I started watching the Ken Burns series on Hemingway and though I now have a more sympathetic view of the man, I still don't like his writing. As I get older and time is more precious, I'm less inclined to try and force myself to read something because others consider it brilliant.

[multigraincracker]

15. Looking for something to do this year

check out the annual Hemingway Homecoming in Lake Wallon Michigan April 5 thru 9. In beautiful Northern Michigan.

https://www.michigan.org/event/hemingway-homecoming

[CTyankee]

19. I loved "A Moveable Feast" when it was discovered after his death. It was funny; a great read.

I recommend it to everyone. I hated his love of the drama of bullfighting. It is gross and horrible. Has Spain outlawed it yet?

[PatSeg]

38. Technically, it is still legal in Spain

but a lot of cities in Spain have banned it.

That's interesting that "A Moveable Feast" was funny. Orson Wells said that in real life, Hemingway had a great sense of humor, but it rarely surfaced in his writing.

[CTyankee]

45. He recounts one story about a car trip to Paris with Scott and Zelda Fitzgerald and they are all

stupefyingly drunk. That was the highlight. You might be able to get it online.

[PatSeg]

46. Thanks!

[Towlie]

21. I don't see any wisdom in his ironic criticism of critics. Didn't he see that it made HIM a critic?

 
←

[PatSeg]

39. That's an interesting point

I guess he didn't like criticism directed at him.

[LAS14]

25. I'm enjoying this thread. I'm glad some people disregarded your advice so they...

... know whereof they speak when they explain their opinions.

[ismnotwasm]

28. Read him a long time ago

So there’s that— didn’t stick in my mind like Steinbeck

[apnu]

33. ... except when you are forced to, such as high school.

Which happened to me. I only liked one Hemmingway book: Old Man and the Sea. The rest were stilted dreck. I'm more of a F. Scott Fitzgerald person.

[PatSeg]

40. For me F. Scott Fitzgerald

got better over the years. When I was young, I read him for the story, but when I got older, it was the writing itself that blew me away. I'd reread certain passages over and over again, amazed at how he could take the most ordinary words in such extraordinary ways.

[jalan48]

35. I read him when I was younger and liked him. Interesting article about the FBI and Hemingway.

For five decades, literary journalists, psychologists and biographers have tried to unravel why Ernest Hemingway took his own life, shooting himself at his Idaho home while his wife Mary slept.

Some have blamed growing depression over the realisation that the best days of his writing career had come to an end. Others said he was suffering from a personality disorder.

Now, however, Hemingway's friend and collaborator over the last 13 years of his life has suggested another contributing factor, previously dismissed as a paranoid delusion of the Nobel prize-winning writer. It is that Hemingway was aware of his long surveillance by J Edgar Hoover's FBI, who were suspicious of his links with Cuba, and that this may have helped push him to the brink."


https://www.theguardian.com/books/2011/jul/03/fbi-and-ernest-hemingway

[PatSeg]

41. It is believed he had a hereditary condition

He was diagnosed with hemochromatosis in 1961 and it is possible that his father, who also committed suicide had the same condition.

Hemingway's behavior during his final years had been similar to that of his father before he killed himself; his father may have had hereditary haemochromatosis, whereby the excessive accumulation of iron in tissues culminates in mental and physical deterioration. Medical records made available in 1991 confirmed that Hemingway had been diagnosed with hemochromatosis in early 1961. His sister Ursula and his brother Leicester also killed themselves.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ernest_Hemingway#Idaho_and_suicide

Of course, there were other factors to consider, but still that is an awful lot of suicides for one family.

[appalachiablue]

70. And shock treatments for D later

in life that left him wasted. He begged them to stop..

[Cetacea]

91. "A brilliant cure but you lost the patiemt"

He killed himself because the ECT left him unable to write.

[alphafemale]

43. Yeah. If I only partook of the arts of people whose life I admired I would be limiting myself great

He had his faults. But who doesn't.

And he wrote some words that will rattle about in my soul forever.

[orangecrush]

58. THANK YOU!

[muriel_volestrangler]

96. Hang on - in #57, you made it clear you meant "if you don't like him as a person" in the OP

but here you are, in the very next post, agreeing that the faults of the man shouldn't stop you reading him.

???

[orangecrush]

98. Good point.

If you don't like my posts, don't read them!




I'm here all week...

[FakeNoose]

44. In my early 20s I went through a period of genuine love for Hemingway

This was after his death of course, but there still was high regard for his style and body of work. Over the years America's regard for him has waned due to his politics and lifestyle choices, but he remains one of our great fiction writers. Hemingway affected 2 generations of American novelists with his towering talent. OK he wasn't a feminist, but neither were a lot of other writers of that time period. I don't hold it against him. I still have a very high regard for Hemingway and I plan to watch Ken burns' series.

[orangecrush]

59. Thanks!

[Raine]

72. That's one reason I avoid reading him,

the quote the OP used is a good one but I've never been into Hemingway. If others like him fine, but I'll pass.

[tirebiter]

52. A Farewell to Arms

Is on TCM at 3:15 this afternoon.

[orangecrush]

60. Thanks

That was my favorite.

[cinematicdiversions]

68. Great take by the wonderful Lindsey Ellis.

[meadowlander]

71. How can I criticise him if I don't read him?

I actually think there's a place in the world for literary criticism. Textual analysis of historic writers is where a lot of the ideas fueling movements for racial and social equity and reform of English language to be more inclusive have come from.

If we only read authors we like and agree with, we would lose the opportunity to learn from their mistakes as well as from what they got right.

[Shanti Shanti Shanti]

74. The series is running on PBS 3 nights, about 2hrs long each, also on Prime Video, good stuff

[pecosbob]

75. Pablo Picasso was never called an asshole

[Paladin]

79. I watched the first segment of the PBS documentary last night.

I thought it was terrific, if a bit of a downer. I knew, of course, that Hemingway committed suicide; what I didn't know was that, of his 8-member family (mother, father, 6 children), 4 ended up taking their own lives. I also didn't realize the horrifying wounds he suffered while serving as an ambulance driver in WW1; he was lucky to have survived.

[Xavier Breath]

87. I enjoyed segment one as well.

I'm no Hemingway aficionado, so much of the detail was new to me. Other than reading The Old Man and the Sea as a school assignment, I never new much more about his work than the individual titles. The samples and descriptions of said work displayed in the doc have intrigued me, and will perhaps lead me to open a tome or two.

[VGNonly]

83. There is more than

meets the eye. A favorite Hemingway for me is a short story the Big Two-Hearted River. See the iceberg theory.

[LanternWaste]

84. I liked his story about an election decided by an internet kill switch.

Oh wait, that was someone else's crap fiction.

That is all, part XXV.

[orangecrush]

95. Bye bye

[llmart]

88. I read many of his books in high school college prep English.

We were given a single-spaced, two page list of many of the classics and had to choose from that list one book every four weeks and then do a report. I chose Hemingway more often than not. Oh, I read a lot more of the classics on the list too, just for my own overachieving self, but for some reason I really loved Hemingway's style and stories.

After watching last night's episode and since I live in Michigan, I'm wondering why his short story "Up In Michigan" wasn't on that list? I'll bet more kids would have read that one.

[misanthrope]

89. Really, Ernest and what are serial philanderers?

Or endless wells of arrogance and braggadocio? How about those who publicly turn on their friends and confidants?

Hemingway was a very good writer and miserable human being.

[UTUSN]

90. Orson WELLES-"I made fun of him...was not in his clan... fond of him... his humor not in his books"

[VarryOn]

92. I say that about every author! Nt

[Paladin]

102. Another good Ken Burns series---but very dark.

I believe that segment with an elderly Hemingway making cue-card responses in a TV interview---including punctuations---is one of the saddest literary images I've ever witnessed.