When Parents in Their 90s Die, They Leave Behind Children in Their 70s.

[MineralMan]

Yesterday, I realized why that can be a big problem. About three weeks ago, I got my check from my father's VA life insurance. My brother-in-law, who has to handle things for my sister, who has Alzheimer's, got the claim form the same day I did. When I called the VA, I gave my sister's address, and they sent a claim form to my sister. He texted me that he had not received the check, despite sending in the completed form.

So, I gave him the phone number for the VA insurance claim department, since he had not made a copy of the completed form before sending it off. I suggested he call and check on the status of his claim. He called. They had not received the form. He said they wouldn't send him a new form. They insisted that he use their online claims system. He has only a cell phone. It's almost impossible to manage the VA's clumsy website on a cell phone. I asked him if he had given my sister's name as the claimant. No, he hadn't. I asked him if he had filled out the form he sent in his sister's name. No, he hadn't. I asked him what address he had sent the complete form to. He didn't remember.

That was when I realized that my brother-in-law is not as sharp as he once was. I called the VA and asked them to send a new claims packet to my sister, since hers had apparently not arrived. I knew what to ask, and what to say when they wanted me to use the online system. I told my brother-in-law to call me when the form arrived and I'd help him get the form filled out property and addressed to the correct address. He just said, "Thanks." I can see that he is going to need help with other forms that will be coming his way, so I'm going to try to help him with as much tact as I can muster, to make sure they get filled out properly, since I'll have identical forms.

All of that stuff is complicated, and comes with few instructions. I can always figure out what is needed on the forms, and understand what to do. My brother-in-law, apparently, can no longer do that, assuming he ever could.

So, if you're an elder and facing the unwelcome prospect of dealing with your parents' estate, keep in mind that others who are also dealing with that may not be fully capable of doing so properly. Offer your help, if you can handle those details. It could make a lot of difference for them.

Getting older isn't always getting wiser, apparently.

[samnsara]

1. oh gawd this is happening at my house!

[MineralMan]

4. It's not uncommon.

As soon as my parents passed, I realized that I was in for a major slog. As the executor of their estate and trustee of the family trust they had set up to deal with their farm property, I was going to face a huge mass of paperwork.

Here's the first thing I did:

I opened Microsoft Word, and started a document just to put information in. Names, addresses, contact information and more for everyone I'd be dealing with, along with my parents.

SS#s for my parents. Their dates and places of birth. Even their parents' names.

I needed all of that information just to make arrangements with the funeral home. I assembled it before I even called that company.

Names, addresses, email addresses, birthdates and other information on each of the beneficiaries.

Complete contact information for the family attorney.

Bank account information for my parents and for the new bank account I started to use for my parent's assets.

I kept adding information as new contacts came into the picture.

Eventually, that document became 6-pages of information.

I keep a printout of it on my desk and another one upstairs on the dining room table, which is my workplace for all estate things.

I added everyone I had to call to my smartphone's contact list, and added those who called me, too, as soon as I hung up.

I have needed to consult that document dozens and dozens of times, and a copy is always near me.

Organizing necessary information is the first step in smoothing out the process. Having that information within reach makes all the difference.

[northoftheborder]

8. Very helpful advice.

I could do a lot of that myself ahead of time so that my children will have a running start. Having info in one place at hand saves a lot of time and tension.

[MineralMan]

11. That would be a wonderful gift to leave your children.

Also, at some point, it's a good idea to execute a Power of Attorney document with your most competent and trustworthy child. That can be a very, very useful thing if you are not able to act at some point in your life, due to illness or some other reason.

But, the information is even more important. I was lucky. My nephew was at my parent's home shortly before they both died on the same day. He called me about something, and I told him to go into my parents' filing cabinet and find a tax return in there. I knew they were there. From that, I got their SS#s, which are crucial bits of information.

[Grins]

21. Yes. And add "passwords" to your list.

Just in case. Happened to my friend’s father. He and his wife in the mid-80’s. His wife did ALL the online stuff and ALL his phone directories, all his passwords for EVERYTHING that made their world turn: Insurance, health, banking and finance, bills, mortgage, utilities, personal friends, family....

Then she suddenly died in her sleep.

“Oh, shit” began. He did know a single password. And she had not written one of them down.

[Delmette2.0]

35. My son has insisted that I keep the shared password safe updated.

Password safe is a program to keep all your passwords. Then you just need one to get into the safe. I can get to his stuff and he can get to mine.

Usually I let him know when i change a password and he updates the Password Safe. I just cross out the old one and write down the new. I know my bad, habits are hard to change.

[HipChick]

38. this happened to my Aunt..

It was. a nightmare....I'm ashamed to say, I insist my parents use something like LastPass..

[SWBTATTReg]

26. Again, you are so helpful in passing this valuable information to others within our DU community.

Smart planning on your part! Thank you.

Another additional hint is that years ago I started an Important Papers word document on my CPU, and then started updating ALL of the important stuff to it, life insurance, insurance numbers and such, bank accounts, passwords, literally anything and everything one could think of. There are tons of stuff out there and one would be surprised once you started writing it down.

And of course I always maintained it over the years.

Of course the most important thing is the person you pick/selected to follow through on your wishes, etc. other tasks that need to be done, should the unthinkable happen. I shudder when I think of the many things that need doing (it is literally a lot of things as you know), and how many people would be, even w/ written guideline of sorts, lost still, regardless. Just think, even one life insurance policy and its proceeds could be a blessing for many. That's one thing. And we all have lots of stuff tied to us, passwords, accounts, etc., etc., etc. Tons of stuff.

Put a little catch it note on your work station/computer too, e.g., a file name or such too. This will hopefully catch the eye of whoever follows up after you and your passing. If you can't find a suitable person to follow in your footsteps to wrap things up, pick a competent lawyer or friend, but vest them very well.

[lagomorph777]

2. I was so lucky my smarter older brother handled my parents' finances...

Last edited Tue Apr 6, 2021, 10:58 AM - Edit history (1)

...in their final days, and after.

I am very grateful to have a sibling (who you remind me of).

[MineralMan]

9. I'm glad that worked out for you.

It's important to offer and to be willing to accept help.

Not everyone finds those things to be easy.

[csziggy]

10. My older sister handled my parents' finances

From when Dad had his first big health crisis just after he'd turned 90. When she started sorting things out, she found that he had not been paying bills or taking care of pretty much anything. She got him to put her on his accounts and got everything caught up by six months later when he finally passed.

When Dad died, Mom started showing signs of Alzheimer's - losing her husband of 67 years just knocked the props out from under her. My sister took care of Mom, making sure she had caretakers, taking her places, and trying to keep her engaged. When Mom died at 97, my sister became the trustee for my parents' estates, which are almost wound up.

I am very grateful for all my older sister's work. I hope she can get her life back now that my parents' affairs are pretty much completed. She's had to take care of everything since 2013.

[TexasTowelie]

3. My brother is going to be 60 this summer

and he is incapable to understand the paper work related to his job or how to advise patients when they ask questions. If I wasn't around to assist in the administrative and technical tasks related to his job then he would have been terminated long ago. I may be disabled, have mental health issues, and even be stoned, but my brain is still pretty sharp so I can read a document (or email), process the information, and determine what tasks need to be performed to comply with requirements.

Yes, I am a highly functional stoner.

[MineralMan]

6. If we are able, we need to help relatives who aren't as able.

It's very important to do that in a tactful way, too. In difficult times, it's crucial to be patient and offer help without making judgments.

Dealing with the death of loved ones is stressful enough. It's important to take deep breaths, stop and think, and offer to help with any troublesome details if you can.

My sister's husband is a right-winger. We deliberately stay away from politics in our relationship. He's willing to get help from me, but I have to provide that help without damaging his ego. I try to keep that in mind at all times. My sister is the beneficiary, not him. It's her I'm helping.

[TexasTowelie]

17. The issue that I have with my brother is that I will offer to help him out

and we will even set a time when both of us are prepared to work. However, within five minutes he will either want to walk away and smoke a cigarette or he will bring up some topic that isn't related to his job so that we both get distracted. If I try to steer the topic back to work he will get upset and make some accusation against me (usually rehashing family history from 20 to 40 years ago), then say that I'm not working hard enough (to complete the work for his job).

I had to cross-train other people when I was working a full-time career. I didn't mind the job or receiving questions from people as to why things were done in a certain manner. I've also written my fair share of procedure manuals (always a sure sign that you better be looking for another job if you spend more than 25% of your time at work doing that task). I developed a great deal of patience since some of the people I trained were not the "sharpest tools in the shed." However, of all the people that I tried to train my brother irks me the most. If someone doesn't want to pay attention to learn, constantly ignores you, or just decides to be a jerk, then why should I waste my time and effort in that situation? I'd rather avoid the frustration and arguments that I can predict are forthcoming.

[MineralMan]

33. It can be difficult when helping family members.

Often, they're more willing to accept help if they haven't succeeded at doing something that will result in money in their bank account, I've found. There's nothing like a five-figure windfall to get people's attention once they've failed to do what is needed to get it.

[4Q2u2]

5. Veterans Reps

Many Cities and Towns have mandated Veterans reps that will help with paper work.
States definitely have them to aid also.

[MineralMan]

7. Yes. That's a good thing to remember.

It has gotten more difficult during the pandemic, though, and many people don't like to ask for help.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

12. Not everyone has kids in their 20s.

If I die at age 90, my son will be 56.

But more to the point, I've recently updated my will, my trust, insurance policy, and so on. I made sure he had copies of everything. I intend to keep him in the loop with all these things, including the state of my investments.

Everyone should have a will. Period. And appropriate people, besides the lawyer, should have a copy. I also sent copies of the legal paperwork to my sister, because it would be helpful to her if she needs to help out my son when I die. Also, I made her 50% beneficiary of the insurance policy.

People who say they don't need a will, they don't care, it will be someone else's problem really should have to deal with handling the affairs of someone who died intestate.

Not too long ago in a discussion here on DU about burial vs cremation and other such choices, someone said they didn't care what happened to their body after, and it wouldn't be their problem. I wanted to point out that it's not considered okay just to put a body out with the trash. Some kind of decision needs to be made and if at all possible, the appropriate sum of money available to make it happen.

I will ask why your sister isn't handling her end of things herself, rather than letting her husband with Alzheimer's doing it.

[MineralMan]

13. It is my sister who has Alzheimer's.

Advanced, too. Her husband is OK, but has slowed down a little, mentally. Hell, so have I, but not enough to have any real impact on my abilities. I just have to concentrate a little more on detailed things.

And, absolutely everyone should have a will and a advance healthcare directive, at the very least. Probate sucks. Fortunately, my parents did have one, along with a family trust that included all their assets. They also had an attorney, who I'm now working with. He's very good, and lets me save money by letting me do most of the legwork and using his services only when necessary.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

30. My apologies for misreading your post

about which person has the Alzheimer's.

I had a serious heart attack back in December. I already had an advance healthcare directive in place. Now there's a copy of it in an envelope on my refrigerator that says for EMTs. Health Care Directive. It's too easy to be taken unconscious to a hospital, and without your directive in hand, the default is to do all possible.

The attorney your parents had sounds truly wonderful.

[chia]

18. Having been trustee of my parents' estate, I'll add that making sure you have beneficiaries on all

accounts needing them should be a no-brainer, but in my case, when my mom inherited my dad's 401K after his death, she neglected to list any beneficiaries for it. They had a living trust, but because there were no beneficiaries I had to get a lawyer and go through multiple hoops that would have been entirely unnecessary if she'd just named beneficiaries. She was very secretive about her personal affairs, and I wanted to weep when going through her papers I found that the 401K had been notifying her *for years* that she had no beneficiaries listed. She wouldn't get a financial advisor to maintain the investments my dad had so carefully tended to when he was alive.

Parents: be open with your child/children who are your trustee/s. Inform them, share information while you're still alive even if it goes against your natural instinct to be private with your personal affairs. Don't make it any harder on them than it already will be...



Also, I read the OP as MineralMan's sister being the person with Alzheimers.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

31. Some days my reading comprehension skills

leave a lot to be desired.

I am so sorry that your mother didn't update beneficiaries. It's so easy to do.

My 38 year old unmarried son has a will and trust work. Which is good. But his two parents are his only beneficiaries. Not good, because in the normal course of events he will outlive us. I need to get him to add other people. He has cousins he could leave to, or some charities, stuff like that.

[MineralMan]

34. Well, both of my parents died on the same day, unfortunately.

Just an hour apart. My father died in the hospital from Covid pneumonia, and my mother died an hour earlier from complications of her Alzheimer's. Fortunately, they had added their offspring as secondary beneficiaries on things. Sadly, my brother died in 2017, so I had to order some death certificates for him, as well.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

43. That was hard, I know.

It is fortunate they had things in order for you. Even so, settling an estate of any kind takes longer than anyone ever expects.

[MineralMan]

46. Well, it's three months later, today.

I just got word that their farm, which was in escrow when they died, is cleared for the closing. By the end of the week, the proceeds from that will be in the bank account for the trust. That was their primary asset, which they had owned outright for over 50 years.

Then, there are just a couple of bank accounts to get control of (more complicated than it should be), another insurance policy, and a final payment for a loan my father made to the water company that supplies water to the farms around there, and all of the assets will be ready for distribution to the beneficiaries named in the trust and will, after the California 120-day time period for beneficiaries to object to the distribution (none will).

I'll retain a substantial amount in the trust account, just in case something my parents owed was missed, for six months or a year, and then I'll divide that up then with the other primary beneficiary.

[chia]

37. It would definitely be a good idea for your son to add someone else in the likely event that

he outlives you, he can always change names should he enter a relationship in the intervening years, or find a charity he trusts to use his money wisely. Also I hope he has a health directive, and I hope you do too!

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

42. I need to talk to him about that.

I actually did bring it up when he sent me the copies of his stuff. I need to bring it up again, and persist until he makes an appropriate change of addition. I certainly hope he outlives me, and his dad. We're divorced, as it happens.

We both have health care directives. I have a copy of mine in an envelope taped to my refrigerator that says For EMTs. Health Care Directive. Just in case I'm picked up by an ambulance. They can grab that and they and the ER doctors will know what I want.

[chia]

47. Kudos to you, you're on top of everything. :) Wishing you the very best.

[bahboo]

14. a lot of good info....thx...

bookmarking this, as I have a mother in memory care who is in her 90's...

[malaise]

15. Another great post

Rec

[Evolve Dammit]

16. He is fortunate t have your guidance. The shift to electronic, non-human life is very frustrating.

I have siblings who simply will not participate. Not even an answering machine. No computer, no cell phone. Wish me luck.

[MineralMan]

36. Yes. Not being computer savvy is a real drawback these days.

My brother-in-law has to call his bank if he wants to check his balance. He has no computer of any kind, and refuses to put the bank app on his phone.

Some kinds of forms can easily be filled out on a cell phone, but government forms are an exception in many cases. They're far from optimized for mobile use.

I'm lucky. I switched my writing career to writing for computer magazines in the mid 1980s, so I've kept up with that technology from then on. My siblings and their spouses, on the other hand, mostly are clueless about technology. It's frustrating.

[BobTheSubgenius]

19. No, getting older isn't always wiser, for sure.

But it always sucks.

[Texin]

20. When my 90 year old mother died, I was turning 60.

My parents married in their thirties, and I was born when my mom was 33.

[Rural_Progressive]

22. Watching this play out in my wife's family

Her dad just died mid February at 91. Her mom is 97, sharp as a tack, but unable to live in her house alone anymore.

It has been a slog even though my wife has two very capable brothers. My wife took it upon herself to get her mom moved from CA to WA into a wonderful assisted living facility. Her mom may be fully functional but she is a handful, I am in awe of the way my wife handled everything. The brothers have taken on the financials and selling of the house. I am hard pressed to imagine what a cluster the whole thing could have been if any of the siblings were impaired.

My wife and I are in our mid to late 60s and fortunate to still be pretty much intact. I am in the process of getting all our ducks in a row so our daughter will not have to deal with anything more than necessary when one of us dies and/or we need to leave our beloved farm.

As one of our fridge magnets says " Getting old is not for sissies"

Thank you for sharing your experience.

[gademocrat7]

23. Very good advice

Thank you, MineralMan.

[Grins]

24. A BIG FLAW in government...

They think they have the solution in technology.

“All you have to do is sign-in and...”

People who are older (and by “older” that can be people in their early 70’s, or “just can’t be bothered” because “I’ve always done it this way” when that way went away years ago) DO NOT adapt to technology.

The Gov’t thinks it is faster and better, and it is, but only if people understand and use technology as a normal part of life.

I wonder how many could/would not sign up for the ACA because it involved a computer?

[Ilsa]

25. And if they even have access to the internet.

Parts of north Georgia have expensive, spotty internet, and I know they aren't alone.

[MineralMan]

39. Government agencies are way, way behind with technology.

Most government websites are useless on mobile devices, especially if forms are involved. It took most government agencies many years to even create interfaces for computer users. Now, they're behind again in implementation.

I encourage everyone to keep a device with a larger screen and a physical keyboard, just for that reason. Even a cheap Chromebook will do for filling out forms that aren't mobile ready, as long as they're accessible on the Internet. Even if you can do it on a smart phone, having a real keyboard will save a great deal of time and you won't have to deal with autocorrect errors so often.

I'm still using a desktop PC with a large monitor, keyboard, and mouse. I get far more done sitting at that keyboard in far less time than I could using any other device. I have tablets, of course, and a smart phone with a large enough screen to use websites in normal web view, but the tiny keyboard makes it painful to write anything at all.

Right now, I'm dealing with real estate people, as well. All of them do everything on their phones, so they write only one-sentence emails. I make them pay for that by making voice calls to their cell phones and making them be a bit more wordy. Title and escrow companies are better, because they have desktop PCs, due to the number of forms they must complete. Brokers and realtors, though, are very difficult when it comes to communication. I hate that.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

45. I have a desktop and a laptop, and expect to keep both

indefinitely. Replacing as needed, of course.

I'm an exceptionally fast typist, and therefore totally despise trying to text. So I do it as little as possible. If my cell phone could have an actual keyboard, great. Meanwhile, I access the internet only from one of my real computers.

[MineralMan]

49. There are some folding bluetooth keyboards out there

that work with cell phones. Some fold up pretty small. However, I don't use those with the cell phone. I have one for my wife's iPad, though, and it works very well.

[murielm99]

27. We will be facing this.

My mother is 92. At least she has a will, and her funeral is prepaid at the local funeral home.

My youngest brother lives in California. He will help as little as possible. My middle brother will do nothing but sit on his ass. I will be doing most of the work, when the time comes. I am 72. I know I am slowing down.

Thank God I have a very bright son who is close by. He helped my daughter handle the terrible mess her husband left behind when he died so unexpectedly.

I have tried to leave things here in an understandable way, and I have kept him informed about our finances. We, too, have farm property.

Good luck, MineralMan.

[Pinback]

28. It's worth investing in guidance from an estate planning expert.

I say this as someone who needs to do this. We do have wills and advance health care directives in place, and all the accounts are set up with beneficiary information, but there are plenty of other T's to be crossed and I's to be dotted.

The other concern I have is protecting my assets and my heirs from my own future dementia. I like to think I would never get swindled, but there are a lot of crooks out there, and the odds of my becoming a confused, gullible old fool in the next couple of decades are likely a non-zero number.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

44. Your concern about future dementia is all the more reason you

need to finish putting everything in place. I hope you soon post that you've been able to accomplish that.

[liberal N proud]

29. You were lucky to have your parents so long

Lost both our parents in my 50s

[DFW]

48. Same with me

I lost my dad when I was 48, my mom when I was 50. Genetic odds say I won’t be around in ten years, either (just turned 69). Neither of my parents, and only one of their siblings made it to age 79.

Luckily, my brother agreed to be their estate executor. Not only was he right there in Virginia, but he was the one of us best versed in convoluted government bureaucracy. It’s always handy to have someone with a degree in mathematics from Harvard in the family. He got everything organized. Due to geography, the three of us are seldom in one place at the same time. The next occasion for that, of all places, was in Waikoloa, Hawaii in 2003, for my younger daughter’s HS graduation. The next time wouldn’t be for another 7 years.

It took hours, but we got it done, and divided up what would be left after taxes as equally as we could. It was clear that we would not be able to afford to keep my parents’ house, though we hated to have to sell it. No one could spare the $500,000 in inheritance taxes we’d need to cough up to keep it. Our whole past was in that house, and our parents had built it. My brother and I both had years of looming school tuition bills for our children, and my sister and her husband never really made enough to be able to afford to live without trembling every time the property tax bill came due. Having to pay an extra $167,000 (a third of the estate tax on the house) would have ruined them. Someone got a good deal on our house, but we haven’t been back since to meet them. It would just be too weird to go back and see someone else living in “our” house.

[Warpy]

32. Everything slows down as we age

especially our nervous systems. Myelin sheaths that protect the nerves (like insulation on electrical wiring) start to degrade and it requires a lot more effort to do everything we once took for granted.

It's not a case of not getting any wiser, it's a case of having the whole world become more of a challenge than it was when we were even half a decade or so younger.

My most prized possession is a fridge magnet my mother had, a badly embroidered "Screw the Golden Years." I'm old enough to appreciate that sentiment fully.

[MineralMan]

40. It truly does help to keep learning new technologies as you

age. The more you keep up, the less difficult things are. It's also a stimulation for your mind to continue learning as you age.

You know what I'm really bad at? Filling out forms by hand. I've been sitting at a keyboard for so long that I'm out of practice with a pen and paper. Weird. My skills are returning, though. Not by choice, but by necessity. I get a lot of forms to fill out these days in the mail. Maybe I'll dust off my old typewriter for filling them out. Ha!

[chia]

41. So true. I learned a term in a gerontology class: "Regulation of loss." It defines the coping

mechanisms people use as they age to accommodate for decreased abilities. Not just using a cane to help them walk, or a grabber to help them pick things up, or a gadget to help them put their socks on. Also the mental things they do to cope with diminished memory - more writing of lists, or list-writing when they never had to before. Not driving at night because they don't trust their vision. Parking closer to the store, or not shopping during Covid because the line to get in the store was too long and knew they wouldn't be able to stand and wait. Simpler meals because they can't stand at the counter long enough to prepare something more elaborate (even when "elaborate" means the kinds of meals they made for years). Declining invitations to eat out because they're afraid they'll be too tired and can't come home early without inconveniencing someone or they don't know if there will be a restroom. Or stairs. Showering less often because it seems like too much energy.

It was hard watching my parents go through these stages. When I had all the youthful energy I needed, I couldn't understand why they said there wasn't enough time in the day to do everything. I'd laugh and say "But you're retired! You should have so much extra time now!" I didn't know what it was like to take three times as long to do everything.