HomeLatest ThreadsGreatest ThreadsForums & GroupsMy SubscriptionsMy Posts
DU Home » Latest Threads » Forums & Groups » Main » General Discussion (Forum) » Chauvin Trial: Will the ...

Fri Apr 9, 2021, 07:50 AM

Chauvin Trial: Will the Prosecution need to show motive?

If so, what will they claim? Maybe this was covered in the opening statements, but I missed that.

I've seen mention of an earlier encounter at bouncing/security jobs and of course racism...what else? Showing off to the street "crowd"?

13 replies, 586 views

Reply to this thread

Back to top Alert abuse

Always highlight: 10 newest replies | Replies posted after I mark a forum
Replies to this discussion thread
Arrow 13 replies Author Time Post
Reply Chauvin Trial: Will the Prosecution need to show motive? (Original post)
rgbecker Apr 2021 OP
lark Apr 2021 #1
jaxexpat Apr 2021 #4
WHITT Apr 2021 #5
lark Apr 2021 #7
Rustynaerduwell Apr 2021 #2
WHITT Apr 2021 #3
rgbecker Apr 2021 #9
Beringia Apr 2021 #6
Effete Snob Apr 2021 #8
rgbecker Apr 2021 #10
Effete Snob Apr 2021 #13
Evergreen Emerald Apr 2021 #11
RobinA Apr 2021 #12

Response to rgbecker (Original post)

Fri Apr 9, 2021, 07:53 AM

1. They used to work as bouncers at the same place.

I have to wonder if that didn't play a part in the murderousness.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to lark (Reply #1)

Fri Apr 9, 2021, 08:04 AM

4. Chauvin was afraid of him. Obviously.

Either Floyd died or Chauvin lived looking over his shoulder. At least that is the most logical motive I see. But then, I fail to see the logic behind white supremacy or racism.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to lark (Reply #1)

Fri Apr 9, 2021, 08:05 AM

5. Indeed

Sure did seem damn personal to me, but tough to prove.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to WHITT (Reply #5)

Fri Apr 9, 2021, 08:09 AM

7. Yes which is why this aspect will probably not be brought up.

I was hoping somone from back in the day would report bad blood between the 2, but unfortunately that didn't happen.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to rgbecker (Original post)

Fri Apr 9, 2021, 08:00 AM

2. I think it's as simple as

he wasn't going to let a group of black people tell him what to do to the black man under his knee.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to rgbecker (Original post)

Fri Apr 9, 2021, 08:03 AM

3. No Motive or Intent Required

with the given charges. One is like negligence, the other is something like you knew there could be a bad outcome, but did it anyway. The nomenclature tends to be state-specific.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to WHITT (Reply #3)

Fri Apr 9, 2021, 08:46 AM

9. Thanks for this input.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to rgbecker (Original post)

Fri Apr 9, 2021, 08:08 AM

6. George Floyd didn't say the cop's name at any time


Plus I would think the owner of the bar could say if there was a relationship.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to rgbecker (Original post)

Fri Apr 9, 2021, 08:44 AM

8. "Motive" is not an element of any crime charged

These are the charges against Chauvin:

Second-degree unintentional murder, third-degree murder and second-degree manslaughter.

In Minnesota, these are the definitions of those crimes:

https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/cite/609

609.19 Unintentional murders.

Whoever does either of the following is guilty of unintentional murder in the second degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than 40 years:

(1) causes the death of a human being, without intent to effect the death of any person, while committing or attempting to commit a felony offense other than criminal sexual conduct in the first or second degree with force or violence or a drive-by shooting


Section (2) involves protective orders and is not relevant.

609.195 MURDER IN THE THIRD DEGREE.

(a) Whoever, without intent to effect the death of any person, causes the death of another by perpetrating an act eminently dangerous to others and evincing a depraved mind, without regard for human life, is guilty of murder in the third degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than 25 years.

Section (2) involves drugs and is not relevant.


609.205 MANSLAUGHTER IN THE SECOND DEGREE.


A person who causes the death of another by any of the following means is guilty of manslaughter in the second degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than ten years or to payment of a fine of not more than $20,000, or both:

(1) by the person's culpable negligence whereby the person creates an unreasonable risk, and consciously takes chances of causing death or great bodily harm to another


None of these offense requires a "motive", nor do they require a specific intent to kill anyone.

In general, criminal laws are directed to behavior, coupled with varying sorts of intent to effect an outcome. For example, if you threaten someone with an intent to induce them to give you money, you commit extortion. "Why" you want the money or "why" you chose that victim are not relevant. If you have some particular animus, that might be circumstantial evidence that you committed the act in question, but we don't lock people up for what they think, we lock people up for what they do.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to Effete Snob (Reply #8)

Fri Apr 9, 2021, 08:52 AM

10. What would be the felony in the "Unintentional murder" Charge?

If they charged that, the state would have to show the felony being committed wouldn't they?

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink



Response to rgbecker (Original post)

Fri Apr 9, 2021, 09:25 AM

11. He had to feel him die.

This is the idea that makes me sick to my stomach. He was on top of him, and felt the life leave his body with that look on his murdering face. And he did not move, even after he felt him die. Only when the paramedics told him to get off, did he finally move.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink


Response to rgbecker (Original post)

Fri Apr 9, 2021, 11:07 AM

12. Legally Speaking, Or To Get A Conviction?

I don't think a stated motive is ever required legally for a specific charge. With me as a juror there are some situations where you will need a motive to get a vote to convict of murder from me. This is not one of them, as I don't believe there was intent. To me this is some kind of extreme callous disregard, which I don't think is a charge, but something like that would allow me to vote to convict. No motive necessary. I can't remember what he ended up charged with. I think some level of murder got thrown back in, so I'm thinking the verdict is not going to make people happy. I find it unlikely that a jury is going to get to murder, although I don't know Minnesotans, so their mileage may vary.

Reply to this post

Back to top Alert abuse Link here Permalink

Reply to this thread