Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News Editorials & Other Articles General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

Nevilledog

(55,079 posts)
Sat Apr 10, 2021, 08:13 PM Apr 2021

Vaccine Refusal Will Come at a Cost--For All of Us



Tweet text:
The Atlantic
@TheAtlantic
People who refuse to get a COVID-19 vaccine will put themselves and the people around them at greater risk of sickness and death. They'll also cost the rest of us a bunch of money, @IsaacDovere reports:

Vaccine Refusal Will Come at a Cost—For All of Us
People who refuse to get the COVID-19 vaccine will have higher health-care costs. The rest of us will foot the bill.
theatlantic.com
3:10 PM · Apr 10, 2021


https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2021/04/vaccine-refusal-hesitancy-economic-costs/618528/

Imagine it’s 2026. A man shows up in an emergency room, wheezing. He’s got pneumonia, and it’s hitting him hard. He tells one of the doctors that he had COVID-19 a few years earlier, in late 2021. He had refused to get vaccinated, and ended up contracting the coronavirus months after most people got their shots. Why did he refuse? Something about politics, or pushing back on government control, or a post he saw on Facebook. He doesn’t really remember. His lungs do, though: By the end of the day, he’s on a ventilator.

You’ll pay for that man’s decisions. So will I. We all will—in insurance premiums, if he has a plan with your provider, or in tax dollars, if the emergency room he goes to is in a public hospital. The vaccine refusers could cost us billions. Maybe more, over the next few decades, with all the complications they could develop. And we can’t do anything about it except hope that more people get their shots than those who say they will right now.

If the 30 percent of Americans who are telling pollsters they won’t get vaccinated follow through, the costs of their decisions will pile up. The economy could take longer to get back to full speed, and once it does, it could get shut down again by outbreaks. Variants will continue to spread, and more people will die. Each COVID-19 case requires weeks of costly rehabilitation. Even after the pandemic fades, millions of vaccine refusers could turn into hundreds of thousands of patients who need extra care, should they come down with the disease. Their bet that they’ve outsmarted the coronavirus or their insistence that Anthony Fauci and Bill Gates were trying to trick them will not stop them from going to the doctor when they’re having trouble breathing, dealing with extreme fatigue, or struggling with other lasting effects of COVID-19. (A new study found that 34 percent of COVID-19 survivors are diagnosed with a neurological or psychological condition within six months of recovering from the initial illness.)

The economic costs of vaccine refusal aren’t yet a major part of the political conversation. That’s likely to change as we move past the first year of the pandemic. “You have a liberty right, and that unfortunately is imposing on everyone else and their liberty right not to have to pay for your stubbornness. And that’s what’s maddening,” Jay Inslee, the governor of Washington, told me. Inslee is 70, and fully vaccinated. The three-term Democrat was in a good mood because he was on his way to see his baby granddaughter, whom he hadn’t hugged in a year. But after what he’s gone through since early 2020—the first American COVID-19 outbreak and the first explosion of COVID-denialist demonstrations were both in Washington—he’s angry and sad that so many people are refusing to get their shots.

*snip*
53 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Vaccine Refusal Will Come at a Cost--For All of Us (Original Post) Nevilledog Apr 2021 OP
This message was self-deleted by its author Chin music Apr 2021 #1
+1 2naSalit Apr 2021 #5
As far as I am concerned, we will get to herd immunity one way or the other. LisaL Apr 2021 #2
+1. Either way they will suffer in the process dalton99a Apr 2021 #33
40% of the military is refusing to get vaccinated... BigmanPigman Apr 2021 #3
This message was self-deleted by its author Chin music Apr 2021 #4
+1 2naSalit Apr 2021 #6
My understanding, because vaccine is considered experimental, they can't make it mandatory. LisaL Apr 2021 #7
This message was self-deleted by its author Chin music Apr 2021 #8
mRNA, just to be accurate. luvtheGWN Apr 2021 #26
This message was self-deleted by its author Chin music Apr 2021 #27
Then it will be time for the injection darts! Buckeye_Democrat Apr 2021 #9
I know...but part of me thinks...that's not a bad idea. paleotn Apr 2021 #18
Oh, not that word again.... paleotn Apr 2021 #17
This Meowmee Apr 2021 #51
The military can be fixed. Biden/Austin can get the generals to order shots for everyone... brush Apr 2021 #11
It would be against our laws to do that while the vaccine is still listed as experimental womanofthehills Apr 2021 #36
The Pfizer and Moderna vaccines are not experimental. They been okayed by the FDA for months... brush Apr 2021 #37
They are still classified as experimental until they get their final FDA approval womanofthehills Apr 2021 #41
So you're contending, that the admin/Defense Sec. can't order the military to vaccinate... brush Apr 2021 #42
It is the law. The anthrax vaccines were not FDA approved marie999 Apr 2021 #48
The story I've read on various sites, including CNN is it's 40% of the USMC misanthrope Apr 2021 #20
I saw an article here on DU in the Latest Breaking News forum BigmanPigman Apr 2021 #23
Air Force trends the same way misanthrope Apr 2021 #24
We had a Marine volunteer to read to students BigmanPigman Apr 2021 #28
Not true about baby rattlers - large rattlers much more dangerous womanofthehills Apr 2021 #38
I always learn something on DU. Thanks! BigmanPigman Apr 2021 #47
When will it be an official vaccine? allnews Apr 2021 #10
The 3 US types are REAL vaccines RIGHT NOW. As is the AZ and others being used Globally. Tommymac Apr 2021 #12
But I heard they couldn't force people to get the shots Tree Lady Apr 2021 #31
True - based on Doe vs Rumsfeld womanofthehills Apr 2021 #39
No they can't. Even in the Military they can't. Tommymac Apr 2021 #43
Well at least my military kids got one Tree Lady Apr 2021 #44
If they refuse the shot orangecrush Apr 2021 #13
+1 nt orleans Apr 2021 #14
You would break the law if you kicked them out of the military. womanofthehills Apr 2021 #40
Regulations, not law orangecrush Apr 2021 #53
The question is how did Meowmee Apr 2021 #52
I propose a $250 tax credit in the 2021 1040s next year. nattyice Apr 2021 #15
No, I wouldn't impose a tax...that's unfair. Dan Apr 2021 #19
Thanks for posting this. ancianita Apr 2021 #16
Absolutely love Inslee.... Dan Apr 2021 #21
... ancianita Apr 2021 #30
The Governor has been a blessing... Dan Apr 2021 #34
I know. ancianita Apr 2021 #35
Remember Republicans when the ACA was being debated? CaptainTruth Apr 2021 #22
KNR and bookmarking. niyad Apr 2021 #25
Actuarties are good at assessing risk and associated costs. BobTheSubgenius Apr 2021 #29
Insurance companies will start to refuse coverage to those who refuse the vaccine. roamer65 Apr 2021 #32
This is why we need vaccine passports LetMyPeopleVote Apr 2021 #45
This is why we have motorcycle helmet laws. JudyM Apr 2021 #46
Start taxing the one-per-centers now FakeNoose Apr 2021 #49
It would be a lot cheaper Meowmee Apr 2021 #50

Response to Nevilledog (Original post)

2naSalit

(102,780 posts)
5. +1
Sat Apr 10, 2021, 08:42 PM
Apr 2021

Hey, how are you doing? I heard you had some kind of health thing, good to see you here!



LisaL

(47,423 posts)
2. As far as I am concerned, we will get to herd immunity one way or the other.
Sat Apr 10, 2021, 08:20 PM
Apr 2021

We will be immune through vaccination, and anti-vaxxers will eventually get immune (or die) through infection.

BigmanPigman

(55,137 posts)
3. 40% of the military is refusing to get vaccinated...
Sat Apr 10, 2021, 08:29 PM
Apr 2021

just heard on CNN.

If the cards are required to do just about anything and to go anywhere people will be in a hurry to get one. Stores, restaurants, gyms, movie theaters, airlines, parties/events, etc. should require them. Period.

Response to BigmanPigman (Reply #3)

LisaL

(47,423 posts)
7. My understanding, because vaccine is considered experimental, they can't make it mandatory.
Sat Apr 10, 2021, 08:45 PM
Apr 2021

Once it's fully approved, it can be made mandatory.

Response to LisaL (Reply #7)

luvtheGWN

(1,343 posts)
26. mRNA, just to be accurate.
Sat Apr 10, 2021, 11:09 PM
Apr 2021

Work on an mRNA vaccine was started after the SARS outbreak in 2003. Scientists were pretty certain after SARS that a major pandemic would occur, probably early in the 21st century. And we did have a minor one - H1N1, and then a scare about Ebola. There are so many rumours about the Covid vaccines, and the media haven't been very efficient in denouncing/correcting them.

Response to luvtheGWN (Reply #26)

Buckeye_Democrat

(15,526 posts)
9. Then it will be time for the injection darts!
Sat Apr 10, 2021, 08:58 PM
Apr 2021

I'm sure this country could find many vaccine administrators from gun enthusiasts.



Yes, I'm joking!

paleotn

(22,211 posts)
17. Oh, not that word again....
Sat Apr 10, 2021, 10:31 PM
Apr 2021

They're not experimental in the classical sense of the word. Stage III trails have shown them all to be about as safe as any officially approved vaccine. At any rate, at this point the benefits outweigh the risks to the point of being ridiculous.

 

brush

(61,033 posts)
11. The military can be fixed. Biden/Austin can get the generals to order shots for everyone...
Sat Apr 10, 2021, 09:08 PM
Apr 2021

in the military. As for the rest of the hesitancy...I don't know. trump did a lot of damage to the nation and it's continuing.

womanofthehills

(10,988 posts)
36. It would be against our laws to do that while the vaccine is still listed as experimental
Sun Apr 11, 2021, 02:18 AM
Apr 2021

Based on a case Doe vs Rumsfeld- (anthrax vaccine). When a vaccine has not yet gotten final approval from FDA, it’s against the law to require it for the military.

 

brush

(61,033 posts)
37. The Pfizer and Moderna vaccines are not experimental. They been okayed by the FDA for months...
Sun Apr 11, 2021, 02:24 AM
Apr 2021

and have been administered to millions of the public. That's no secret.

womanofthehills

(10,988 posts)
41. They are still classified as experimental until they get their final FDA approval
Sun Apr 11, 2021, 02:43 AM
Apr 2021

Easy to check this info out on web.

 

brush

(61,033 posts)
42. So you're contending, that the admin/Defense Sec. can't order the military to vaccinate...
Sun Apr 11, 2021, 02:51 AM
Apr 2021

its troops, who follow orders of their superiors, while it's vaccinating millions of the public per week who aren't under any obligation to follow orders?

That makes absolutely no sense.

 

marie999

(3,334 posts)
48. It is the law. The anthrax vaccines were not FDA approved
Sun Apr 11, 2021, 07:36 PM
Apr 2021

and now we have veterans on VA disability because of the vaccines.

misanthrope

(9,495 posts)
20. The story I've read on various sites, including CNN is it's 40% of the USMC
Sat Apr 10, 2021, 10:44 PM
Apr 2021

I don't know what the figure is for all branches.

BigmanPigman

(55,137 posts)
23. I saw an article here on DU in the Latest Breaking News forum
Sat Apr 10, 2021, 11:00 PM
Apr 2021

and it says the just the Marines too, not all branches.

I taught at a school that was just off of a Marine base and it was quite different from when the Navy was the branch that had been using the base before the Marines. The difference in their parents was noticeable.

misanthrope

(9,495 posts)
24. Air Force trends the same way
Sat Apr 10, 2021, 11:04 PM
Apr 2021

The people I knew who went to Annapolis and West Point were smarter than average but the ones I knew who went to USAFA were pretty brainy.

BigmanPigman

(55,137 posts)
28. We had a Marine volunteer to read to students
Sat Apr 10, 2021, 11:18 PM
Apr 2021

in my classroom. Over the years I got to know him fairly well. One day he couldn't make it to my class and the following week he told me why. Apparently a young marine saw a baby snake and wanted to play around with it. It turned out to be a Rattle Snake and the baby ones are more poisonous than the adults. I did not envy his job as a Marine trainer. I thought my 1st graders were difficult and tried my patience but I would never be able to do his job.

womanofthehills

(10,988 posts)
38. Not true about baby rattlers - large rattlers much more dangerous
Sun Apr 11, 2021, 02:31 AM
Apr 2021

I was bitten by a rattler so I researched all the facts - “ Contrary to popular belief, the bite of a baby rattlesnake is almost always far less serious than the bite of a larger adult rattlesnake. The notion that baby rattlesnakes cannot control the quantity of venom injected (referred to in the field of Herpetology as “venom metering”) is a myth that has been disproven multiple times through well-designed studies “

Tommymac

(7,334 posts)
12. The 3 US types are REAL vaccines RIGHT NOW. As is the AZ and others being used Globally.
Sat Apr 10, 2021, 09:25 PM
Apr 2021

They work. They've been tested. Millions of folks have been injected.

The FDA has given emergency approvals, but they are approvals none the less.

Tree Lady

(13,282 posts)
31. But I heard they couldn't force people to get the shots
Sat Apr 10, 2021, 11:33 PM
Apr 2021

Like in school or military until a certain criteria was met.

Tommymac

(7,334 posts)
43. No they can't. Even in the Military they can't.
Sun Apr 11, 2021, 08:20 AM
Apr 2021

That is one of the differences between an emergency auth and a normal one.

Military personnel cannot be ordered to take it because it is an emergency auth.

If it was a normal one, then orders could possibly be issued, though it would be an extreme situation for that to occur imo.

Tree Lady

(13,282 posts)
44. Well at least my military kids got one
Sun Apr 11, 2021, 10:43 AM
Apr 2021

They are waiting for second shot. Live in San Antonio which has had a lor of cases. My daughter can't wait for it to be ready for her teens 13 & 15 as they are back in school.

orangecrush

(30,252 posts)
13. If they refuse the shot
Sat Apr 10, 2021, 09:49 PM
Apr 2021


Get them the fuck out of the military.

We don't want these mental midgets in there.

womanofthehills

(10,988 posts)
40. You would break the law if you kicked them out of the military.
Sun Apr 11, 2021, 02:38 AM
Apr 2021

Only After final FDA approval, can they make these vaccines mandatory for the military

Dan

(5,179 posts)
19. No, I wouldn't impose a tax...that's unfair.
Sat Apr 10, 2021, 10:42 PM
Apr 2021

But, I would withhold any IRS federal tax refunds until one could provide proof of vaccination.

From what I understand, when you get vaccinated your information is updated on the State’s database. Crosscheck your federal return with the State where you indicated you were vaccinated. No information, no refund. Then impose a six month period to get the shot once available and then forfeiture of the refund it you haven’t received it.

But no tax ...

ancianita

(43,307 posts)
16. Thanks for posting this.
Sat Apr 10, 2021, 10:25 PM
Apr 2021

Yet a whole nother way for manipulated stupidity and fear to weaken a nation 'they' say they want to make great again.


Thanks for the paragraph referring to Inslee. I love that governor.

Dan

(5,179 posts)
21. Absolutely love Inslee....
Sat Apr 10, 2021, 10:45 PM
Apr 2021

My one GOP friend dislikes him, but he has kept her safe. I sometimes wonder if she would prefer a GOP governor, but then she does like the freedom that the GOP allows in their states.

Last night, she went to a concert and people were not maintaining the social distance that was required and boy was she complaining...

ancianita

(43,307 posts)
30. ...
Sat Apr 10, 2021, 11:27 PM
Apr 2021

I give you credit for having a GOP friend. I've tried while living in FL but just can't -- polite, joking, transactional, but friends, no.

Freedom in the red states I've spent any time in, supports all kinds of silly, immature, anti-social, abnormal, don't ask-don't tell behaviors that are not-quite-illegal or civilized.
It's a kind of chimpy darwinian scofflaw freedom where microbes say, 'hold my beer.'

I hope things are healthy and safe in WA these days. That state took a hard hit, but I'm sure Inslee was straight and fair through the past year.

Dan

(5,179 posts)
34. The Governor has been a blessing...
Sun Apr 11, 2021, 01:03 AM
Apr 2021

He lacks the charisma (did I spell that right) to be a national figure, but he is a straight shooter, no bullshit.

My friend is a product of her generation, a good heart, recently widowed, sort of influenced by her kids, and I'll leave it at that.

Since we live in the Puget Sound area (western Washington), we really don't have any hard core GOP nuts, a few, but not like Eastern Washington where they are stone cold crazy.

ancianita

(43,307 posts)
35. I know.
Sun Apr 11, 2021, 02:07 AM
Apr 2021

Back in 2008 I drove from Mt Hood, stayed in Portland, then moseyed up the coast (omg the Columbia River!), missed Tacoma to turn at Olympia up toward Port Angeles to ferry over to Vancouver Island (the Bouchert Gardens, wow). It was one of my favorite road trips. Where you live is so beautiful in spite of the crazies around the Spokane-Idaho area.

I hope WA keeps Inslee for a long time. Funny that you mention charisma. I thought he had it, which goes to show its variability, I guess. He was my primary candidate for president before Biden (I started the Inslee for President primary thread) and he had positive support around here, just not in numbers. During the debates I thought he acquitted himself well about climate and other issues, had the best national and international plans to undergird a green new deal, and his record with WA's projects, data and brainpower showed the operability of those plans. I hope, too, that Biden's climate team consults with him.



CaptainTruth

(8,199 posts)
22. Remember Republicans when the ACA was being debated?
Sat Apr 10, 2021, 10:56 PM
Apr 2021

I remember a lot of them saying "I don't want to pay for your bad life choices."

Meaning, they thought when millions of people who had medical problems caused by their "bad life choices" got insurance, their rates were going to go up.

Look at where we are now. The situation is exactly reversed & it's going to be US who have to pay for THEIR "bad life choices" (their choice to not get vaccinated).

BobTheSubgenius

(12,217 posts)
29. Actuarties are good at assessing risk and associated costs.
Sat Apr 10, 2021, 11:19 PM
Apr 2021

Let them work out what the likelihood of infection of an unvaxed individual, and what that's likely to cost. Then pass that on.

roamer65

(37,953 posts)
32. Insurance companies will start to refuse coverage to those who refuse the vaccine.
Sun Apr 11, 2021, 12:09 AM
Apr 2021

That will start happening when the FDA promotes it up off from emergency approval.

LetMyPeopleVote

(179,823 posts)
45. This is why we need vaccine passports
Sun Apr 11, 2021, 10:51 AM
Apr 2021

Low IQ trump supporters should be prevented from infecting people

FakeNoose

(41,631 posts)
49. Start taxing the one-per-centers now
Sun Apr 11, 2021, 07:40 PM
Apr 2021

When they figure out that the un-vaxxed rubes are costing them, this is all going to change.
Suddenly it's going to be PATRIOTIC to get vaccinated asap.

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»Vaccine Refusal Will Come...