Help me here: How is a gun mistaken for a taser?

[madaboutharry]

Watching the press conference in Brooklyn Center, MN.

Are these even remotely alike?

All I know is from what I’ve seen on tv and movies and from that limited knowledge it seems that the two are impossible to confuse.

[Watchfoxheadexplodes]

1. Many can be mistaken for a gun

Although most have some sort of colorful markings.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

2. Cops will usually put their gun on one side (dominant hand) and taser on the other.

They also feel very different. She also clearly waved it around a few times. Her recklessness is breathtaking.

[Watchfoxheadexplodes]

4. Not saying she was not wreckless

But from video he appears to jerk away from being hand cuffed and dives into car.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

7. I don't fucking give a shit.

[Watchfoxheadexplodes]

8. Might want to look at facts

I can pull up plenty of videos of officers shot when suspect dives into vehicle.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

14. huh

[lame54]

15. Here's a fact - taser's are still shaped like guns - why?

[Watchfoxheadexplodes]

17. They shoot projectiles

And you aim them.

[ahlnord]

58. tasers shaped like guns

Yes. WHY?! I think it is irresponsible and dangerous for the taser manufacturers to replicate guns. The tasers are the same size and shape and they have triggers like a gun. They should be distinctly different - perhaps shaped liked a flashlight with a button or other type of release instead of a trigger. It is a confusion waiting to happen. This is not the first, nor the last such accident.

[USALiberal]

44. Lol, ok! Nt

[uponit7771]

27. So, if he's low level let him go and pick him up later.

[FBaggins]

67. I don't think a taser was inappropriate

I have no idea what the supposed offense was, but I would assume that someone willing to fight off three armed cops to race away from them is not very likely to be "low level".

A taser doesn't seem like excessive force. But training on the use of a taser has to include better precautions to make pulling the gun by mistake impossible. She's obviously trained to warn first the target that he will be tased and then her fellow officers that a taser is about to be deployed... there should be an automatic step in there that confirms you're working with the right weapon.

Alternatively - I don't think that most police should have firearms with chambered rounds. One extra step before being able to fire may add risk in an "old-West-style" quick-draw shootout... but how often do those occur?

[rsdsharp]

3. It could happen in a stressful situation.

Taser:

?v=1563408268

Glock:

[Nevilledog]

5. ...

Link to tweet

Tweet text:
Joyce Alene
@JoyceWhiteVance
Opinion from former police captain — hard to mistake your gun for your taser. #BrooklynCenter #DaunteWright

Jerry Wiley
@Jerry5Wiley
Replying to @ResusCGMedia and @JJFJR2381
👇🏼👇🏼👇🏼this was my first thought, also, the taser is carried on the weak side and the handgun on the strong side. The reason is for exactly this situation, so there is not mistake.
10:40 AM · Apr 12, 2021

[Calista241]

43. This whole engagement lasted less than 10 seconds. They were fighting, and every cop there knew

he had a warrant for felony flight and gun possession.

[Nevilledog]

45. Yeah....no.

Link to tweet

Tweet text:
Chris Hrapsky
@ChrisHrapsky
Daunte Wright had an outstanding warrant for gross misdemeanor carrying a pistol without permit and misdemeanor fleeing police. The warrant issued April 2nd after he failed to appear for court.

This is presumably why the officer asked him to get out of the car.
6:45 AM · Apr 12, 2021

I'd love to know where you got your information from.

[Captain Zero]

65. It looked to me like she did not know how to arrest someone

I know she is a 26 years veteran but do we know if she EVER arrested anyone before? One former ATF on MSNBC said she was doing it all wrong anyway, by trying to arrest him in the doorway of his vehicle.

There are stories of police who serve a long time and never fire their pistol, then she fires hers 'accidentally'?

Has she worked a lot of desk duty?
It all just makes me wonder.

[Polybius]

69. If you look, sure

But in a high-adrenalin heated moment that you just reach and don't look, it certainly is possible.

[Nevilledog]

72. Your gun and taser are on opposite sides.

You have to reach across your body to get the taser.

[Arazi]

73. She had the gun trained on Daunte for 5 full seconds, inches from her own face

Come the fuck on! Of course she knew what she was doing

[wryter2000]

6. They feel similar

Even though they don't look alike.

[Miguelito Loveless]

9. The weight would be VERY different

[wryter2000]

35. Good point

[lame54]

10. Why is a taser shaped like a gun? - Still

[Watchfoxheadexplodes]

13. Because it shoots projectiles

Just off top of my head.

[lame54]

18. That's not an answer...

That shape is not necessary to shoot projectiles

[agalisgv]

28. I wonder the same thing

Seems like a good solution to me. To avoid this "mistake" fro happening again.

[Polybius]

70. Now you've got me thinking

Is there anything that shoots projectiles that isn't shaped like a gun? I know my crossbow is.

[uponit7771]

24. So do penises, but cops don't grab them and get busy when they're threatened.

[lame54]

29. They wait till the footage plays later on tv

[USALiberal]

11. I think they came up with this after the shooting, made up BS! nt

[rsdsharp]

20. She said taser five separate times.

Last edited Mon Apr 12, 2021, 08:39 PM - Edit history (1)

“I’ll tase you!

I’ll tase you!

Taser! Taser! Taser!”

And afterwards: “Shit! I shot him.”

You can see on the body cam footage that she had a Glock in her hand, but she really appeared to believe — AT THE TIME — that she had a taser. And then was shocked that it was a gun.

She fucked up badly, but she believed she was tasing someone with a warrant who was attempting to flee.

[USALiberal]

21. Thanks for the info, I should have researched more. nt

[rsdsharp]

22. You're welcome.

[Hoyt]

30. Yeah, I really think it was an "accident," although one that could have been avoided by not hassling

people over a tag violation.

The officer who was handcuffing the driver was not your typical Chauvin type. Maybe, just maybe, such an "accident" will lead to changes in traffic stops that will save lives -- drivers, passengers, and police.

[agalisgv]

31. What was the warrant for?

Last I heard, police haven't shared details on the warrant Wright had.

[a kennedy]

34. Tabs on his car were expired was the reason for being stopped.

[agalisgv]

37. Just learned that the warrant out for Wright's arrest was for failure to appear in court

For illegally possessing a firearm with out a permit and fleeing from police in the past. The initial reason was for an expired registration.

[a kennedy]

38. Oh, thanks for the correction.....I didn't hear that.

[a kennedy]

32. She fawked up big time is right.......heard she was an experienced officer as well, NOT A ROOKIE so

to speak. She needs to be let go. Ugh.......

[Mr.Bill]

50. 26 year veteran actually. n/t

[orleans]

56. yeah, so she can go be a cop in another county

or switch states and go police somewhere else

there should be a national fucking database of all these asshole cops that prevent them from getting rehired anywhere else.

[lame54]

33. I like to keep the rat poison next to the trail mix

[greenjar_01]

41. Agreed...I don't know how you watch the video and don't see it as an accident

I mean, it's gross and criminal negligence, but there's no doubt she believed she was operating the taser at that moment.

[sammythecat]

57. A horrible tragedy for all involved

Just terrible.

[SYFROYH]

12. Sounds like an admission of involuntary manslaughter which is a felony

Jailtime, lose all guns, and cannot be a cop anywhere ever again.

[a kennedy]

54. I say that sounds about right for punishment. 😡 😡 😡

[SYFROYH]

16. IIRC, this was the same excuse made in a Chicago train station shooting of a black man.

I forget the details. I'll have to look for a link.

Does anyone remember that?

[greenjar_01]

40. It was Oakland, not Chicago

[Mr.Bill]

51. And he didn't yell TASER! before he shot.

I think he was convicted of manslaughter and got two years.

[SYFROYH]

63. Right you are. Oscar Grant was the victim. Over ten years ago

It doesn't seem so long ago.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/may/02/officer-punched-oscar-grant-and-lied-about-facts-in-2009-killing-records-show

[sarisataka]

19. There are many ways to tell

A taser from a gun. Depending on exact models the feel of the grip, weight and color may all be different from the gun. Also a gun and taser are usually carried on opposite sides to prevent any mistakes.

So how could it happen- stress and tunnel vision. In stressful situations our brains react faster than out consciousness can analyze so we go with "muscle memory" or what you have practiced a thousand times. If 90% of that practice was with the gun and 10% with the taser, the hand will go to the gun and the brain will chew over that action later.

Then there is tunnel vision, under stress we hyper focus on what we perceive as the threat. We don't double check what is in our hands because we know we have already practiced grabbing the item we need.

While these factors can help explain the mistake and we can deem it an accident, it does not absolve the person who made the mistake. Especially when the result is the death of another person

[Hoyt]

23. I suppose it could happen. Honestly, from her reaction, I think it may have happened. But damn.

The big problem is why was the victim stopped in the first place? Out of date tag, come on.

[uponit7771]

25. +1, and stopped with armed officers. Is that needed? I'm thinking if a person is smoking in the

... wrong spot you don't get 23 trigger pullers to take care of it for instance.

[RussBLib]

26. She should not be a cop

If she mistakes her taser for her gun.

[dawg day]

36. There was an elderly "special deputy" in KS or Missouri who did that a few years ago

Thought he was tasing but was shooting... but he shouldn't have been carrying any weapon at all-- wasn't a real officer, just some rich local who wanted to act tough.

[DVRacer]

62. It was Tulsa

His name is Bob Bates
He shot and killed my friend Eric
The punishment he received was way too little

[dawg day]

75. I remember now.

I'm sorry about Eric.
And I'm sorry that this is still going on.

[greenjar_01]

39. I mean, did you watch the video?

Are people still claiming that she knew it was a gun? Give her an Oscar, then. That's remarkable acting.

[Sympthsical]

42. Panic

I watched the video a few times. She seems pretty panicked and freaked out when the victim dives into the car.

Panic and stress cause tunnel vision.

I actually do believe she didn't mean to shoot him. I also believe she must go before the judge and pay the consequences for that mistake. The taking of a life isn't a "Whoopsy!" moment where bygones should reign.

[radius777]

68. A trained officer should be prepared for such a situation.

People generally don't like being arrested. Wright was no danger to them - they could've just let him go and tracked him down later.

IMO this was intentional - no way a veteran officer mistakes a gun (which is likely much heavier and metal) for a taser. They were probably pissed about the Chauvin case and wanted to 'kill a n----r'.

[Sympthsical]

74. You're imputing a lot without evidence

I'm only going off what I can see and hear. I see and hear a freaked out human. I don't have a window into her mind and soul. Apparently a lot of other people do. Can I learn this skill?

I wonder if, once she learned what the warrants were for, if it colored her reaction. She sees gun possession and fleeing police, and suddenly she's approaching that situation a lot differently and on edge.

That is not an excuse. I'm simply wondering if that affected her mindset. No matter what her intent, her actions are what is important. And her actions deserve charges and going in front of judge and jury. She took a life.

Someone leaping into a car and trying to drive away while one officer is half inside the car and another standing next to it is a danger. Fleeing at high speed is a danger to other citizens. If their suspect sped off and killed a pedestrian, those officers' asses are grass.

We should look at what happened. Not what fantasy we've spun based on our biases.

She done fucked up. Her career is over. Her freedom may be over for a bit. But I don't think someone who "wanted to kill a n----r" in your view, turns to her black co-worker in horror three seconds after she pulled the trigger.

[ecstatic]

46. It's NOT. Some people are willing to believe literally anything

when it comes to the systematic, state endorsed murder of black people.

[Solomon]

76. Thank you! And white people always, ALWAYS get the benefit of the doubt. Every time.

[Mad_Machine76]

47. Do you one better:

What was this guy doing to warrant a taser, let alone a gun?!

[WarGamer]

48. It's happened many times before

They both have a pistol grip.

Under duress some people just make poor decisions.

She'll end up in jail and others will learn a lesson.

[GregariousGroundhog]

60. I doubt she'll end up jail

https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/cite/609.205

I would say the odds of convincing 12 people beyond a reasonable doubt that she "created an unreasonable risk, and consciously took chances of causing death or great bodily harm to another" are pretty close to zero.

When someone resists arrest and dives into their car, deploying a tazer would be viewed as a reasonable response. In order to charge the officer, a prosecutor would need to prove that the officer unreasonably created a situation where he or she would mistake their tazer for their pistol and consciously did so.

[jcgoldie]

49. I would like to know... is it SOP to scream "taser taser taser"...?

When a cop is about to tase someone?

[Mr.Bill]

52. I believe it is.

especially in close quarters with others near. It's also warning the other police.

[Straw Man]

59. Yes, it is.

It's to warn the other cops to get out of the way so that they don't get zapped.

[Solomon]

77. Yet she shot her gun before they were out of the way.

[Straw Man]

79. No she didn't.

None of the cops got hit, did they?

[bdamomma]

53. No

such thing as de-escalation in a situation like this huh??

This is a sickness to go after unarmed young black man.

[PufPuf23]

55. Grasping at straws to excuse evil IMO nt.

[roamer65]

61. When you need an excuse for cold blooded murder.

That’s how.

[SYFROYH]

64. In the gun world, we call this a negligent shooting and not accidental.

[Kaleva]

66. How can a hunter wearing orange be mistaken for a trophy buck?

It's well known that

Tunnel vision

Auditory exclusion

Sensory exclusion


happen during periods of high stress.

Training is supposed to minimize that but it doesn't always or the training was inadequate.

[NutmegYankee]

71. In stressful situations the brain can ignore some information and go with "muscle memory".

It has happened in several air plane crashes where professionally trained pilots made similar mistakes. There is a known mechanism for this to occur.

[Solomon]

78. Muscle memory. Yeah like always drawing your gun on black people. I'm fucking sick of it.

You purposely draw your gun because the person is black and when it fucks up you wanna whine I didn't mean to.

[NutmegYankee]

80. Don't get me wrong, I think the stop was bullshit.

But I don’t believe she intentionally shot Mr. Wright. Most likely she was trained to go for a gun if a subject jumped back into a vehicle, because they might be going for a weapon. She probably thought she had the taser, but subconsciously had actually grabbed the gun. With such intense focus on Mr. Wright, it’s likely her brain ignored the weight and color signals of the weapon in her hand. It’s a flaw in human brains - we shed information in situations that get a fight or flight response.

Now that doesn’t absolve her of negligence. She still had the obligation to not use deadly force, and her actions caused Mr. Wright’s death, so the charge she got makes complete sense.

[hardluck]

81. Here's an article on the subject

https://www.forcescience.org/2021/04/unintended-a-theory-of-taser-weapon-confusion/?utm_campaign=FSN%20419&utm_medium=email&utm_source=newsletter&fbclid=IwAR1nEHItdTWk7z8dfyORHVukpxHmFh9DfVYD3t-h9OOzTQEv7aSWKRhlkws


And a retired police office that I respect provided this commentary:

"For those who can't understand how a cop can mistake a gun for a Taser, this article explains how such 'capture errors' happen.

'Research has shown that people are particularly susceptible to this type of error when they are occupied by other mental processes. For police, these processes might involve time-compressed threat assessments, the need for immediate action, or simultaneous efforts to communicate—including verbal warnings and de-escalation attempts.'

I would postulate that if that scenario of relatively mild resistance and stress overwhelmed this officer's cognitive processing ability, she was ill prepared and untrained to do the police job.

Every single police officer will experience a resisting/fleeing criminal in his or her career. It's a regular occurrence and some officers deal with this type of incident on a weekly basis.

It's commonplace. Cops should have the mental horsepower and training to deal with common situations without making errors like this. Clearly, not all can.

I'm personally glad she was criminally charged. I hope it serves as a wake up call for all the slacker officers who are on the job collecting a paycheck when they should be doing another career instead."

My personal opinion is that tasers should be banned. They are only about 60% effective in the field, cops place too much reliance on them, and use them as a crutch to coverup their lack of hand to hand skills (of which they are woefully undertrained). Then when the taser doesn't work, which is basically a flip of a coin odds, they freak out because of said undertrained combatives, and do the only other thing they actually are trained to do - draw and fire their pistol.