Don't like the Phrase "Defund the Police" We need reform/reorganization something

[PA_jen]

Call it re-education or reorganization something BUT I am PISSED as hell at this weekend events.

We don't need every police officer with guns. We have other defense tactics they can use. Person won't stop for a tail light being out or speeding. With dash cams they can take a picture of the plate and send a ticket in the mail.

If they have a taser they don't need to also carry a gun.

We need cops to at least have a associates degree in psychology and we need to take some of the police money and use it to train crisis prevention who answer calls for kids out of control or someone having a mental break down. We need psych evaluations on cops yearly and a background checks to weed out the racists.

We need cops to see people as human beings and not a notch on their belts.

I have know 4 cops in my life and all of them bad apples. 2 wife abusers who got away with beating wife and kids. 1 of the cops nearly killed their wife and he got away. The other 2 are ego maniacs who used their badges to bully people and get their way. One was a a known racists

I see a cop and I immediately do not trust them. I am a white girl and probably have no right to say this but I am tired of seeing black people being killed by cops. I tired of the policing system as it is.

[cinematicdiversions]

5. Demilitarize the police is sitting right there and has broad appeal with more Americans.

And with black men and woman are being slaughtered in record numbers in my neck of the woods. (Record homicides all African American) reducing police presence seems to be killing a lot of POCs.


We focus on the shark attacks that make the national news (Police killings) but our solution is greatly increasing drowning deaths.

[BannonsLiver]

11. I've thought demilitarize the police was perfect from the first time i heard it

It's much more accurate, for starters.

[peggysue2]

50. I agree

It's a way to start the ball rolling and a phrase about which most Americans agree--there's no earthly reason why our cops should look like battlefield soldiers, something that simply underscores the 'us against them' mentality.

It has to go deeper than that, of course, because the entire profession is out of control. The current conditions, the senseless and indefensible violence and abuse cannot stand. Qualified immunity has been abused to the point it should be kicked to the curb or greatly curtailed. Make officers accountable for these actions of unnecessary force, defend themselves in a court of law or before a civilian board of review.

Whatever you label the change (except the losing meme of Defund the Police), it needs to be effective in short order. This cannot continue.

[Jirel]

14. Oh, FFS.

Not your call. Newsflash: anti-racism movements do not owe the Democratic Party squat. Your blaming them for the loss of seats because of a phrase that has been embraced by some handful of Democratic politicians is frankly disgusting. People are dying, and you’re bloody worrying about how their protest against being murdered might affect you brand. That’s QGOP attitude, and has no place in where this party is going.

Want the votes of people of color? Then be a good ally, and stop grumbling about a slogan.

[maxsolomon]

23. Well said. Always with the "Defund" critiques on DU.

Reinvent, Reimagine, or Reform, none of them clearly address the issue that policing eats up too much of State & Municipal budgets and winds up with too many black people shot dead (or asphyxiated) in the street.

&, while I agree it's a part of the problem, "Demilitarize" has 5 syllables.

[BannonsLiver]

42. Yes, probably 4 too many syllables for most Americans.

[SWBTATTReg]

2. Only ones pushing this 'defund the ...' are republicans...trying to stick democrats w/ this...

[comradebillyboy]

3. AOC pushed the defund slogan pretty vigorously and

the Republicans used her words to demonize all Democrats.

Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (AOC) has defended her support for the 'defund the police' movement after Democratic losses in the House.

Party leaders have complained that issues AOC is closely associated with - such as defunding the police and socialism - were weaponized by Republicans in this year's election season and contributed to Democrat losses.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/aoc-defends-defund-the-police-in-the-face-of-democratic-criticism/ar-BB1aYDrN

[SWBTATTReg]

25. AOC was and is still wrong. She should have used better words or more appropriate wording, and not

allow her message to get hijacked or utter a message that got screwed around. The police, rather, in my mind, will always be needed, like how do we handle crime such as robbery, running red lights, murder, the whole gambit of crime that will always still be out there?

Instead now, some of our future efforts are going to have to be spent to try and repair the damage her mixed up messaging caused, and if anything, went a long way towards damaging her credibility.

I was disappointed in her messaging. I live in the STLMO area (close to Ferguson, MO and other locations within STLMO that had demonstrations) and a lot of positive actions occurred that resulted in better policing by all, more citizens stepped up to the plate and ran for positions to get into elected offices to render a better police by putting in additional steps, the more hiring of black and other minorities as police officers, etc. Our police chief is a decent person too (of St. Louis City) and lives in the city too.

AOL's mouth didn't do us one bit of good. She should have perhaps visited the St. Louis area and perhaps learned something by visiting the very progressive policing units here. Eh, what do I know, eh? She even admitted herself that she could have done a better job of
messaging.

Take care of yourself and be safe!

[wellst0nev0ter]

44. AOC is not the entire party

However, the entire party has allowed itself to be defined by its backtracking from "defund the police."

Nobody likes a weak party. They want a party that leads on issues.

You harness the rage behind the slogan and push for meaningful reforms. It's not complicated.

[Hortensis]

46. Wobbly voters disliked it so much that it cost us 30 house seats and almost

cost us the majority altogether. Those alarmed voters did the usual of voting for a president from one party and congress from another to keep the president from going too far. In this case, from trying to close down their police departments!

I told an obnoxious conservative who smeared us with that, sure, and I couldn't wait until 911 was freed up because I was going to use it to speed dial our favorite pizza parlor. No chance she believed her lie, but for sure she loved it.

[FakeNoose]

4. I'd be in favor of defunding police unions

... except for the fact that police unions aren't funded by our taxes.

[SoonerPride]

6. I haven't heard defund the police since last year

Really.

[Caliman73]

7. We need to adequately fund Communities.

We need for all Americans to have a safe place to live. It doesn't have to be palatial. We need all Americans to have access to food. We need people to have access to jobs or meaningful activity that can sustain them and connect them to the community. We need people to have access to stigma free, professional mental health services. We need social workers and community organizers to help lead and instill a sense of community into neighborhoods. We need to have education around political literacy and voting so that people have a voice in their community and lives.

All of that can come out of the several billions of dollars that go into arming and equipping police, as well as substantial raises in the amount that the wealthy pay to have a functioning society.

That will decrease the need to fund police to enforce laws and put people in prison. It will likely not eliminate the need for all police, but it can substantially decrease the need to continually expand departments and arm them to the teeth.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

8. I prefer "abolish the police," myself.

[Silent3]

10. You keep stating this ridiculous position...

...but I have yet to here your wonderful, alternate proposal. Do you even have one?

Or is it just a naive, "This is awful. No police at all has just got to be better, no matter what" sentiment that you feel no obligation to think through any further?

[WhiskeyGrinder]

16. Police abolition posits that the assets, energy and effort that go toward policing would better

serve all of us by going instead toward community-based models of safety, support and, most importantly, prevention.

It's not about sending all the cops home this Friday and then trying to figure out something else that would work. It's about doing the work to provide support to communities to look out for each other.

Crime isn't a random thing; the vast, vast majority of crimes can be traced to the problem of people's needs not being met. We have the power and resources to meet those needs. We just need the will to do so.

The police system in this country is built on white supremacy and one of its main missions is to uphold it. It simply can't be reformed. We have a chance to build a system without oppression.

[Silent3]

24. A "community-based model" is police by another name

It might indeed work better, and solve many of the problems we currently face, but it won't eliminate the need for armed police at times.

And while it may be that "Crime isn't a random thing", we have yet to prove that simply better meeting people's needs will significantly reduce violent crime. Some? Almost certainly. A lot? Maybe. Completely? No way.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

26. Community care and a community meetings its needs are very different than community policing.

we have yet to prove that simply better meeting people's needs will significantly reduce violent crime.

Mainly because we've never sufficiently -- by which I mean equitably, across the nation -- funded the things that do so. If we did, I think a lot of us would be surprised.

[Silent3]

28. That's the kind of thing you have to put to a test in many pilot programs...

...before you yell "abolish the police" , having no clue if your alternate plan is actually going to work as well as you'd like to imagine it will. You can wishfully think "a lot of us would be surprised" all you like.

Without prior proof of efficacy, you can't sell this plan to all of the voters who'd have to approve of it.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

33. You can read more about real-world examples of abolition and defunding the police here:

https://www.mpd150.com/resources/

and scroll down to "Abolition in Practice" and "Abolition in Practice 2: Real World Examples."

[Jirel]

9. That's not your call.

Defund The Police is the statement. You can be for or against that, but insisting that it be changed is tone policing. People said the same thing about Black Lives Matter. They wanted it changed or softened, but also not their call.

If you want to be an ally and stand for the thing, then do it and don’t gripe about someone’s phrasing. Otherwise, leave it alone and feel free to start another movement with its own phrase.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

12. "Defund the police" was actually a liberal effort to soften the more radical "abolish the police."

And, like many similar efforts, got bogged down in explaining itself and getting dismissed.

[iemanja]

17. Well I think we are starting to see the effects in Mpls

of what life would be like with no police. Violent crime has skyrocketed and police do nothing. It's absurd to think we don't need a police force. Americans, and people in general, are not peace loving. We wouldn't be having continual car jackings if they were.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

19. Crime rose across the nation in 2020 for a variety of reasons.

Violent crime has skyrocketed and police do nothing.

Then why do we need them?

Americans, and people in general, are not peace loving. We wouldn't be having continual jar jackings if they were.

It's true, we do have a violent culture. But crime isn't random; it most often stems from needs not being met. If we meet those needs before crime happens, we don't need cops.

[iemanja]

21. Then why not address that rather than just abolishing the police?

The goal of the city council is to replace the police with a safety force, yet you oppose that. A force under community control would not sit on their asses to punish citizens.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

22. Abolishing the police would give us the resources to be able to address the issues that cause

crime.

I'm not convinced Minneapolis' efforts won't replicate earlier systems under new names. But the conversation is certainly important and valuable.

[Jirel]

18. That's seriously oversimplified, and not quite right.

A more thorough analysis:
https://equaljusticesociety.org/defundthepolicememo/

[WhiskeyGrinder]

20. I would say it's not quite right to represent Kaba's work as "defunding the police" when

she specifically describes herself as an abolitionist.

[Silent3]

13. It's everyone's call what something is called

And "defund the police" is a stupid, counterproductive slogan that gets in the way of laudable goals, hurting the cause more than helping it.

[Jirel]

15. Wrong on all counts.

This is exactly the pathetic argument blathered by some “Democrats” about Black Lives Matter. Or about any number of other slogans and images used in the fights for civil rights. It is NOT everyone’s call, except for those who coined and are using it. Want something different? Shut up, start your own movement and slogans, and outcompete it in the ideas department. Anything else is whining and tone policing.

[Silent3]

27. Calling out bad marketing isn't "tone policing"

My complaint about "defund the police" isn't about the "tone" of it. It's just plain bad marketing.

And as for "Anything else is whining", I'd love to see your track record on criticizing, oh... anything at all. Unless there isn't a thing in the world that you ever, ever complain about, without also starting a world-changing movement to change that thing, you have no room to talk.

Criticizing bad ideas, including bad slogans, is all part of normal human discourse, and comes without any obligation whatsoever to personally mount campaigns to change every single thing one criticizes.

[tonedevil]

29. I don't remember any middle of the road Democrats...

rushing to embrace Black Lives Matter or Occupy Wallstreet. Somehow what ever the people who are feeling the boot have to say is never good marketing.

[Silent3]

30. If you want "middle of the road Democrats rushing to embrace"...

...something, if you think that's what it takes to get change to actually occur, then why deliberately fail in your messaging?

I see the main options here as:

1) Believe really, really strongly, despite not seeing progress, you've got to stay true to messages that don't seem to be working, because you're darn sure that nothing but what you deem to be the organic, home-grown slogans of the people most effected by a problem can succeed.

2) Not care if you actually succeed in changing things, so long as you maintain your message purity, and feel really justified in your anger about things not changing.

3) Be ready to take constructive criticism, and entertain the possibility that better marketing might actually help change things.

[tonedevil]

31. There is no difference between your...

options 1 and 2. Number 3 has some merit, but I seem to recall the suggestion of the "cooler heads" was that instead of Black Lives Matter it should be All Lives Matter. At this time I hear that Reform the Police is the proper thing to say not Defund the Police or even worse Abolish the Police. Given the decades we have been Reforming the Police and that the Police are as out of control as ever I don't think those Reforms are likely to take hold.

[multigraincracker]

32. More funding For the Police laws

Departments to be rewarded with more resources, tied to fewer citizen complaints and freezing funds when force turns out to be unnecessary for a year or two.

[WarGamer]

34. Did you see the video of the cop killed by the AR15 next to the pickup truck?

It was just a tinted window infraction.

You going to send him out there with a taser?

Will ANY cop ever sign up for the job?

This country is fucking VIOLENT. Cops need to be armed.

It's still a VERY small number of cops who do bad stuff. Prosecute the hell out of them and dissuade the others from doing bad stuff.

Maybe make the hiring process more rigorous?

[wellst0nev0ter]

45. Most police killings are responding to non-violent incidents

A small fraction involve suspects with weapons

Link to tweet

More officers died from COVID than from criminals. Stop trying to justify the killings.

[WarGamer]

48. Note how the meme says "began"

That's the key word.

How many cops responded to a domestic violence or mentally ill person or tinted windows and the suspect attacked them with a deadly weapon?

Don't get me wrong, cops must be held accountable. But disarming them is STUPID.

[wellst0nev0ter]

49. 100 out if 1100 police killings

Involved someone with a weapon.

But you would know that if you had actually read the tweet.

[Initech]

35. "Defund the police" is terrible messaging.

What I want to see is:

1. Kick the white supremacists and extremists out of law enforcement.

2. Take away their tanks and military weapons. You don't need a tank to patrol suburbia.

3. Hold them accountable in the event their weapons are discharged.

That's it, and it wouldn't take a whole lot of crazy laws or regulations to make that happen.

[Iggo]

36. Then stop saying it.

[Progressive Jones]

37. Police Restructuring. nt

[raccoon]

38. Yeah whoever came up with that defund shit is an idiot.

Yeah whoever came up with that defund shit is an idiot.

How about “reform”? Republicans always use that one when they want to take something away from you.

[krispos42]

39. Revamp the Police

[maxsolomon]

40. "Revamp" makes it sound like we'll give them lasers and tanks.

De-vamp is more what I have in mind.

[krispos42]

47. Oy.

give new and improved form, structure, or appearance to

I'm not talking about making them vampires! Again!


Or for the first time!

[BlueNProud]

41. They need to stop being equipped like they are in a war zone

[wellst0nev0ter]

43. "Shrink the Police"

How's that for "branding"?