The irony of this forum perfectly encapsulated

[misanthrope]

by the widespread vitriol for law enforcement alongside the sympathies expressed for Capitol Police officers.

You just can't make up this shit.

[ColinC]

1. We at DU have a longstanding policy

...to NOT blame the victim.

[LizBeth]

22. +1

[Treefrog]

39. You must have missed the thread about the doctor and his family murdered in ROck Hill.

Some here had the victim pegged as a jealous husband, others as an abuser. Sickening thread.

[greenjar_01]

2. ...

[sarisataka]

9. .

[CaptainTruth]

13. Lucifer!

Waiting for more episodes...

[LizBeth]

25. Love that series.

[LanternWaste]

72. Maybe this is the social upheaval you spoke of...

resulting from people being forced to wear pants in a fast food place or be refused service.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

3. Stood out to me too.

[Elessar Zappa]

4. I see vitriol toward bad cops.

I rarely see posters condemning all law enforcement.

[Eliot Rosewater]

6. Exactly

[hlthe2b]

15. +1 The OP has been here far to long not to have realized the difference

[Arazi]

37. Yup. Divisive shit

[LanternWaste]

73. I can't see it as anything other than self-aggrandizing chickenshit.

“Chickenshit is so called - instead of horse- or bull- or elephant shit - because it is small-minded and ignoble and takes the trivial seriously.” ― Stephen Ambrose

[Eliot Rosewater]

5. Liberals criticize cops, they dont hit them in the head with fire extinguishers or

trap them inside 200 pound doors and suffocate them to death.

[True Dough]

48. Exactly. Liberals also suggest reasonable alternative services

to respond to urgent situations either in place of or alongside law enforcement officials. We can see continued role for ethical police officers, but also call for a reduction in their numbers to free up funds for other professionals who could be more effective in various situations.

Liberals, we can walk and chew gum!

[A HERETIC I AM]

7. There's a huge difference between...

Having sympathy for a person killed while doing his job and expressing disgust for an asshole being an asshole because they have a job that lets them get away with being a giant asshole.

[orleans]

56. agree. there are good cops & bad cops; people who are assholes & people who are not assholes n/t

[misanthrope]

64. Couldn't agree more

I've been friends with some and harassed by others.

[Sneederbunk]

8. Further irony.

Cop kills Floyd and black man kills Evans.

[kysrsoze]

10. I didn't realize all cops are the same, and we should have a uniform attitude toward all of them.

Thanks for the tip!

[pandr32]

16. +1

[Arazi]

11. That's fucked up. It's vitriol towards bad cops

But you knew that

[brush]

12. Nothing to make up. There are good cops and some who should never be...

allowed anywhere near a badge and a gun. Most of us on DU get that quite clearly.

[lagomorph777]

14. We at DU are able to distinguish between good cops and bad cops.

Nice try, though.

[Miguelito Loveless]

24. I have reached the point were I see the police,

as an institution, as corrupt.

That doesn't mean the individuals stop being human. When I start thinking that they are all individually evil, then I have become the monster.

I am puzzled as to why the poster finds compassion for suffering families "ironic".

[Caliman73]

42. That is a very short cogent response.

Exactly. The institution, system, concept, practice, or whatever you want to call it, is corrupt. However, there are many decent people who go into the job with the intention to help people, to protect them, to "make a difference". They are people and when things happen to people, we can feel for them while still maintaining that the system needs to change or be completely redesigned.

[uponit7771]

35. +1,

[Treefrog]

17. No shit. I find it hard to keep up sometimes.

Someone else referred to whiplash on an earlier thread lol. I just can’t keep straight which CAB.

[Elessar Zappa]

19. Cops who murder people

are bastards. Hope that helps you keep it straight.

[Treefrog]

26. But that's not what I usually see.

I see “ACAB.” The first letter is ‘a’, am I right on that?

[Elessar Zappa]

28. From how many DUers?

Two or three? The vast majority don't post that.

[Treefrog]

31. True enough, and I thank you for that reminder.

I needed it.

[misanthrope]

38. Therein lies the irony

The expression of both thoughts on the single forum.

[misanthrope]

53. If those "two or three"

were met with the volume of demands for nuance found in this thread, it would serve well.

[Miguelito Loveless]

18. Being humane equals irony?

[malaise]

20. Let a thousand flowers

BLOOM or BOOM!

[Hekate]

67. How many of us remember that?

[malaise]

69. Ha

[sop]

21. I recall a number of threads here, attacking the capitol police for cooperating with the violent

insurrectionists on January 6. The belief was some capitol police officers allowed the mob into the building and generally sympathized with the attackers. That investigation is still ongoing.

Most of the anti-cop threads here are in response to cases of unarmed people being brutalized or gunned down by aggressive, sometimes racist, cops. I think the majority of posters here can differentiate between police officers who do good things, and ones who don't.

[lagomorph777]

57. A few of them were bad. Most risked their lives to save the nation.

And it's almost inconceivable that they actually succeeded, despite being vastly outnumbered and betrayed by their own Government.

[maxsolomon]

66. In the heat of that moment, it sure looked like some were standing aside.

Since 1/6, I haven't seen confirmation whether any were.

[BannonsLiver]

23. Indeed

Setting aside the specific topic of policing for a moment, sometimes I marvel at the knee jerk reactions, fear of nuance and non ideological similarities to “others” across the political spectrum when it comes to other topics.

That said, there is still a lot of good info and perspective here, and some folks are very witty. So like everything else, there’s a bit of good and bad.

[Elessar Zappa]

30. But the OP is complaining about nuance.

He's saying it's weird that some cops get praised and others bashed. Well, speaking personally, if the cops are doing their jobs and not murdering innocent people, then I don't have a problem with them.

[misanthrope]

49. Maybe I'm actually complaining about the lack of nuance

found in some posts while also hoping the ensuing discussion elucidates those things and gives pause to reactionaries.

[LizBeth]

29. I do not know if he was a good cop or bad cop or in the middle. I know he was a human being murdered

sorry it is a challenge for people to understand empathy for all those that mourn his loss.

But mostly, I am not participating in the whole thing, just find your comment lacking and addressing that.

[Politicub]

32. Maybe this is a personal problem for you. I am grateful for the people who gave

their lives and put themselves in harms way to protect the capitol from the seditionists.

I also recognize that the institution of law enforcement is plagued by racism. I don’t know how to fix it.

But I am able to acknowledge that there are good law enforcement officers despite them being part of a racist system.

[CaptainTruth]

33. It's almost like there are good cops & bad cops...

...& people have different opinions about the two different groups.

[uponit7771]

34. Wrong forum, its MAGA Cultist who can't walk and chew gum and hate nuance

[sarisataka]

36. I believe it is less irony

And more cognitive dissonance.

Most of last year through about January 8th the Capitol Police were under the same ftp-acab-there are no good cops blanket.

Once it was realized the actions of the 6th could be used to point out the hypocrisy of the ring wings back the blue, the threads about the Capitol Police being sympathizers who actively assisted melted like a snowball on a Las Vegas sidewalk in July.

[soothsayer]

41. Well to be fair it looked like the cops waving them in and taking selfie's were part of it

Later we learned they were seriously outnumbered and hung out to dry, and doing their best to de-escalate, to not get killed, to not get any lawmakers killed.

Fog of war and all that.

[Withywindle]

58. I still believe that SOME Capitol Police aided the terrorists

Others did not, and acted heroically, and the ones who were buddy-buddy with the rioters sold them out and threw them under the bus. There's plenty of video evidence of both.

The problem of corruption in the police force is a very old and well-documented one, and it hurts honest cops as much as it does anyone else. There is a lot of pressure within the ranks to fall in line, and this leads to coverup of crimes committed by cops. The system needs STRONG reform.

There isn't any cognitive dissonance in being sad both for a cop murdered in the line of duty while trying to do his job honestly, and also being sad for police brutality victims.

[misanthrope]

65. Well said

Thanks

[Caliman73]

40. There is no irony. We operate in the grey, where life happens.

You can understand that there are systemic problems within the concept and practice of law enforcement while still understanding that there are people who are doing the job and that there are times when they are the victims.

To not understand that is to think like a right winger. Binary thinking is a trait that conservatives display regularly. Liberals tend to understand that you can be both victim and perpetrator.

Police under Capitalism, work to protect the property and power of the wealthiest people. They serve to enforce order. They, as individuals and as a system absorb and also reflect the racism that is built into the American society. MEANWHILE, there are a majority of police who likely go into the job with the idea of serving the community and protecting the innocent from those in society who would use fear and violence to take. It is a struggle, constantly to balance those concepts.

When a police officer stops an unarmed Black person and immediately assumes a threat and therefore a hostile attitude, that feeds into the likelihood that the Black person will be killed, injured, or at minimum treated harshly and unfairly. That is a real problem and its repeated occurrence creates a tension between people and the police. When an officer seemingly kills a Black person in a way that appears to be unlawful, and there are few to no consequences, that escalates the tension.

On the other hand, when people attack police officers who are simply doing their jobs and trying to maintain order, especially if those officers are showing restraint in a serious situation, then there will be sympathy. Add the political bent, where right wingers are actively trying to disrupt the democratic process to retain arguably the worst president in the last 100 years, then sympathies will lie with the officers who are defending the Capitol.

There isn't any irony or inherent contradiction in holding those two views, even simultaneously.

I work with police. I have family in law enforcement. I know some very good people who are police. I can respect the job they do while understanding and knowing that they work within a system that is corrupted and needs to be completely changed.

[misanthrope]

52. Oh, I know it's not in the binary

I am guessing the facetious undertone of my observation was too subtle but I read some of the responses I was wishing for anyway. All it took was providing a target to get people to state what should be expressed more often. Glad to be your huckleberry.

[tonedevil]

76. So you are our great teacher? /nt

[misanthrope]

78. If you feel the need to interject that into my remarks, then by all means

Whatever gets you through the night.

[tonedevil]

81. LOL

[stillcool]

43. it's a human thing...

we all have our own perception. I think it's a matter of degree, when trying to express it. People go over the top. I am an equal opportunity sympathy/ vitriol user.

[2 Meow Momma]

44. Nuance

Most here understand good cop vs bad cop, and in between.

[misanthrope]

51. Someone gets it

+1

[Sympthsical]

45. We kind of stopped caring about the Capitol officer

Once it couldn't be blamed on a white Trumper, it was off the front page in hours. Literally hours. I watched it happen.

If it had been a white Trumper, we'd have a three day palooze with a dozen duplicate OPs about every random thought, no matter how tangential. It's why anti-Asian threads don't get much traction. Can't blame it on a political opponent? Not really worth discussing at any length.

The narrative must be maintained, no matter what. It's kind of adorably Orwellian when you think about it.

[ecstatic]

46. I don't think there's an irony

Corrupt, criminal cops ARE a major concern, but I don't call for them or anyone else to be murdered in cold blood. The problematic cops, violent cops who attempt to escalate every encounter, the racist cops, the incompetent cops need to be identified and removed from their positions. EVERYONE should be treated with dignity and respect during any physical encounter. There's no irony or disconnect on my end, and I find this post kind of offensive and tone deaf.

[misanthrope]

50. Didn't say anyone called for murder

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100215332002#post26

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100215332002#post36

[AZProgressive]

54. My positions on policing are very nuanced

No one asks me to break down my entire views but it isn't so much black and white thinking when it comes to me.

There were police officers that were part of the Insurrection.

[misanthrope]

61. +10

So much grey in this world. A whole lot.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

55. I mean...I think I've made it pretty clear where I stand.

[Devil Child]

59. Double-think par excellence

I find it entertaining.

[misanthrope]

60. True as well

All of us are prone to a lack of objectivity when it comes to ourselves.

[Mr.Bill]

62. Wait until you see the thread that develops

when a Capitol police officer kneels on a black congressman's neck for nine minutes.

[Hekate]

63. What is this? I'm only the 5th Rec? Well, off to the greatest page with you anyway...

...because I think you stand for truth, justice, and dare I say it, the American Way.

[CrackityJones75]

68. And here I am with a fresh batch of popcorn...

[Mysterian]

70. What would you like to see?

Everyone "sieg heil" when disccussing police?

[misanthrope]

75. I would like to see

more people applying nuance and asking others to do the same. Unfortunately, you have to paint a target on yourself in order to draw that out, as I've done here.

[AZProgressive]

77. I don't worry so much about message board posters

I do wish the police would apply as much nuance as you would like to see at DU. Someone upthread mentioned ACAB.

Arizona Prosecutors Pretend 'ACAB' Is Gang Lingo To Hit Protesters With Felony Gang Charges

(Snip)

Since it's impossible to calm the police down, it appears prosecutors and law enforcement agencies are shifting their focus into inflicting maximum pain on those exercising First Amendment rights. A truly ridiculous response to a recent protest in Arizona shows just how far the government is willing to go to stifle dissent. Maybe the ultimate goal isn't to end protests, but the end result of this Phoenix protest shows local law enforcement is willing to put their credibility on the line to punish citizens for being unhappy with the status quo.

On Oct. 17, about 20 people gathered in downtown Phoenix to march for justice for victims of police violence. The group was made up mostly of young people, including three 17-year-olds, an honors student from Arizona State University, and a Harvard student. The group marched down the streets of Phoenix chanting “Black lives matter.” Some of the protesters moved traffic cones and signs into the middle of the street. Some carried umbrellas, which protesters have used to protect themselves from tear gas and projectiles.

Eventually, police officers donning helmets and bulletproof vests closed in on the group. With a weapon drawn, an officer told them to get on the ground, which they did. Police ripped away the umbrellas. Dozens of officers surrounded the protesters, video footage shows. Police handcuffed the kneeling protesters, yanked them to their feet, and put them in the back of cruisers. Police used pepper bullets on at least one of the protesters.

This is only part of the disproportionate response. The major damage came after the arrests, when prosecutors added felony gang charges. Here's what prosecutors offered in support of these charges.

The street gang charges are based on the group’s common use of the phrase “all cops are bastards,” the fact they all dress in black, and carry umbrellas.

https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20210117/16075846074/arizona-prosecutors-pretend-acab-is-gang-lingo-to-hit-protesters-with-felony-gang-charges.shtml

When you see someone use ACAB at DU do you automatically assume they are part of the ACAB gang? In any case they have the first amendment right to say ACAB.

This is also what is going on locally.

https://www.abc15.com/news/local-news/investigations/brady-list/in-2020-police-brutality-and-calls-for-reform-dominated-headlines

One thing I'm glad I no longer see the phrase "a few bad apples" here anymore.

[misanthrope]

79. When someone says "ACAB" I take what is said

If they don't mean "all cops are bastards" then why use it?

[AZProgressive]

80. I don't care if people use it or not

I'm more concerned about Arizona prosecutors trying to label protesters as a gang and using ACAB as evidence they are part of gang. When I see a DU member use ACAB I don't think they are part of a gang. Phoenix police & prosecutors either believe that or worse they are lying to support charges against protestors.

There are other problems, I'm more concerned about the police than reforming DU and it is easy to find hypocrisy from all sides in politics.

[tonedevil]

84. There may be one who isn't...

and technically that would disprove the statement. Still since it is so hard to find that example I find your point moot.

[LanternWaste]

71. It's almost as though different people hold different opinions about different things.

I guess a lot of people do find that unbelievable. I see it as little more than part and parcel of human nature... of which we all exemplify that irony at one time or another (except the highly evolved such as yourself).

Or maybe I just made all that shit up, context and nuance are fictional, and we always agree in a most absolute manner as would some imaginary, monolithic brain-collective.

[misanthrope]

74. or, or

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=15332557

[canetoad]

83. Get OUTTA here

Shoves LanternWaste in the chest.

[canetoad]

82. It possibly could be ironic

If the same poster/s, over and over again, expressed those sentiments. All you'd have to do is post us some links to prove your point.

Shades of grey.

[Tommymac]

85. Systemic Racism in Law Enforcement is real. Like it or Not.

The fucking system is BROKEN. Like it or not.

There are good people in a fucking BROKEN RACIST system, but they need to SPEAK OUT or they are bad too. Like it or not.

There are fucking murderous racists who are thriving in the RACIST LAW ENFORCMENT SYSTEM in the USA.

LIKE IT OR NOT.

[Voltaire2]

86. so the irony is we don't want cops killing people and we don't want people killing cops?

Last edited Wed Apr 14, 2021, 09:22 AM - Edit history (1)

Have I got that right?

[bullwinkle428]

87. See, that's too much like the teachings of Jesus, and we can't have any

of that around here!!

[Voltaire2]

88. can't we enjoy killing some group of people?

there has to be some horrible group that we can all celebrate killing.

[Humanist_Activist]

89. Generally speaking, assaulting people is bad, that's a consistent position to have.

Unless in self-defense, of course. The issues are to do with accountability, or lack thereof, within police departments, on top of their policies and procedures that seem designed to terrify and terrorize POC.