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Ocelot II

(115,691 posts)
Tue Apr 13, 2021, 08:16 PM Apr 2021

Deep Cleaning Isn't a Victimless Crime

"The CDC has finally said what scientists have been screaming for months: The coronavirus is overwhelmingly spread through the air, not via surfaces."

Last week, the CDC acknowledged what many of us have been saying for almost nine months about cleaning surfaces to prevent transmission by touch of the coronavirus: It’s pure hygiene theater.

“Based on available epidemiological data and studies of environmental transmission factors,” the CDC concluded, “surface transmission is not the main route by which SARS-CoV-2 spreads, and the risk is considered to be low.” In other words: You can put away the bleach, cancel your recurring Amazon subscription for disinfectant wipes, and stop punishing every square inch of classroom floor, restaurant table, and train seat with high-tech antimicrobial blasts. COVID-19 is airborne: It spreads through tiny aerosolized droplets that linger in the air in unventilated spaces. Touching stuff just doesn’t carry much risk, and more people should say so, very loudly.

I’ve been writing about our misplaced obsession with surface hygiene since the summer. Like many, I spent the early months of the pandemic dunking my apples and carrots in soap. That was before I read a persuasive essay in the medical journal The Lancet by Emanuel Goldman, a microbiology professor at Rutgers New Jersey Medical School: “Exaggerated Risk of Transmission of COVID-19 by Fomites.” (In medical jargon, fomites are objects and surfaces that can transmit an infectious pathogen.) This opinion ran contrary to the conventional wisdom of the broader scientific community, and Goldman told me that several journals rejected his essay. But he was not alone in his quest. Writers such as my colleague Zeynep Tufekci and researchers such as Jose-Luis Jimenez, an aerosol scientist at the University of Colorado Boulder, were also outspoken in their insistence that we needed to focus on ventilation rather than surfaces, windows rather than Windex. They were rebuffed, not only by loudmouths on Twitter and on TV, but by other scientists who clung stubbornly to an outdated view of viral spread....

...Too many U.S. institutions throughout the pandemic have shown little interest in the act of learning while doing. They etched the conventional wisdoms of March 2020 into stone and clutched their stone-tablet commandments in the face of any evidence that would disprove them. Liberal readers might readily point to Republican governors who rejected masks and indoor restrictions even as their states faced outbreaks. But the criticism also applies to deep-blue areas. Los Angeles, for instance, closed its playgrounds and prohibited friends from going on beach walks, long after researchers knew that the coronavirus didn’t really spread outdoors. In the pandemic and beyond, this might be the fundamental crisis of American institutions: They specialize in the performance of bureaucratic competence rather than the act of actually being competent...
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/04/end-hygiene-theater/618576/
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Deep Cleaning Isn't a Victimless Crime (Original Post) Ocelot II Apr 2021 OP
Cleaning isn't a crime, victimless or otherwise. SoonerPride Apr 2021 #1
The Atlantic and the Lancet are trash? Ocelot II Apr 2021 #2
Yes. These idiots ignore other pathogens, in particular Norovirus that are among the most infectious hlthe2b Apr 2021 #3
Norovirus isn't a respiratory virus; it's intestinal. Ocelot II Apr 2021 #4
I am quite aware of this. I am talking about the need for surface disinfection hlthe2b Apr 2021 #5
Lol! Parody?? Nt USALiberal Apr 2021 #10
I absolutely agree. PoindexterOglethorpe Apr 2021 #6
The ad that's making me crazy right now is for a Tide product dflprincess Apr 2021 #7
Oh, dear. PoindexterOglethorpe Apr 2021 #8
It's probably not a good idea to lick other people's sofa cushions, though. Ocelot II Apr 2021 #9

SoonerPride

(12,286 posts)
1. Cleaning isn't a crime, victimless or otherwise.
Tue Apr 13, 2021, 08:45 PM
Apr 2021

The entire thesis is preposterous.

Even if we now know covid isn’t passed via surfaces a whole helluva lot of other germs and bacteria are and having clean public spaces isn’t some “problem.””

It’s about fucking time.

The opinion piece is just plain trash.

Ocelot II

(115,691 posts)
2. The Atlantic and the Lancet are trash?
Tue Apr 13, 2021, 08:48 PM
Apr 2021
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(20)30561-2/fulltext

The Lancet, in particular - a peer-reviewed scientific publication - isn't "opinion." It's science.

hlthe2b

(102,267 posts)
3. Yes. These idiots ignore other pathogens, in particular Norovirus that are among the most infectious
Tue Apr 13, 2021, 08:51 PM
Apr 2021

and resistant viruses to heat, cold, sunlight, and DO live for long periods on surfaces. Many other viruses and bacteria do as well.

True competent public health and infectious disease epidemiologists approach disease control in a comprehensive manner. COVID-19 is our biggest problem, no doubt, but HARDLY our only one.

Ocelot II

(115,691 posts)
4. Norovirus isn't a respiratory virus; it's intestinal.
Tue Apr 13, 2021, 09:24 PM
Apr 2021

The focus here is on respiratory viruses. You can get norovirus from surfaces, but that's not what's at issue. I stopped compulsively disinfecting my groceries and Amazon deliveries last summer but I do wash my hands after I've been out because of the other bugs.

hlthe2b

(102,267 posts)
5. I am quite aware of this. I am talking about the need for surface disinfection
Tue Apr 13, 2021, 09:28 PM
Apr 2021

year-round and especially in winter months and that any such articles such as this discouraging hand-washing, surface disinfection, general hygiene, and caution, because COVID-19 is far less likely to remain viable on inanimate surfaces, ignore this point. That is a very ignorant approach to public health messaging and will be harmful in the long run. I am not telling you to disinfect your groceries, but surface disinfection of counters, bathrooms, and general sanitation, including hand-washing is not something one can just worry about in terms of COVID-19 or any other single pathogen. Think otherwise? Well just wait until that chicken on your counter transmits Salmonella to your salad greens, or the kids come back from a field trip with Norovirus and infect the entire household via everything they touch. And yes, even if we now have evidence that COVID-19 is not long-lived on surfaces, that is not the case for all respiratory pathogens (in addition to these afore-mentioned enteric pathogens).

We are NOT only concerned with COVID-19, nor other respiratory viruses. Please don't add to the confusion of those who do not know better.

PoindexterOglethorpe

(25,855 posts)
6. I absolutely agree.
Tue Apr 13, 2021, 09:39 PM
Apr 2021

I've been muttering since last summer that all this obsessive cleaning is nonsense.

Plus, there really is something to be said about being exposed to various things that allow our immune systems to work the way they are supposed to. I long ago noticed that those who seem most obsessive about things like not touching a bathroom door handle with their actual hands get sick a lot more readily than those who don't worry about such things.

Similarly, if you're walking in a park, you honestly don't need to be wearing a face mask. Really, you don't.

dflprincess

(28,075 posts)
7. The ad that's making me crazy right now is for a Tide product
Tue Apr 13, 2021, 09:43 PM
Apr 2021

that supposedly kills bacteria on upholstered furniture. Because, after all, we don't want to wait for more "superbugs" to develop.

PoindexterOglethorpe

(25,855 posts)
8. Oh, dear.
Tue Apr 13, 2021, 10:00 PM
Apr 2021

One nice thing about no TV is I don't get the joy of seeing such ads.

Keep in mind that "anti-bacterial" soap, which was highly touted a few years ago, is actually much worse at killing germs (bacteria) than ordinary soap.

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