43-year old man suffers stroke after J & J vaccine.

[hamsterjill]

Last edited Thu Apr 15, 2021, 01:08 PM - Edit history (1)

Edited: because some here seemed so concerned that I described a 43 year old man as a “young” man, I’ve edited the subject line. This is General Discussion; not LBN. I’m 62. So 43 is indeed young to me.



OCEAN SPRINGS, Miss. (WJTV) – A normal day turned tragic for the family of Brad Malagarie after he received the Johnson & Johnson COVID-19 vaccine on Tuesday. Just hours after receiving the vaccine, Malagarie was found unresponsive in his office. The Ocean Springs man was rushed to the hospital, and doctors told the family a blood clot in his cerebral artery caused a stroke.

Malagarie’s family said the 43-year-old is now paralyzed and is unable to talk or walk. His aunt, Celeste O’Keefe, said the only health issues he has is high blood pressure.



https://www.kwtx.com/2021/04/14/young-healthy-man-suffers-stroke-hours-after-receiving-jj-vaccine/

[idziak4ever1234]

1. This will bring great joy to the anti-vaccine people

[hamsterjill]

4. Agreed.

It’s so unfortunate. It also nixes the notion that the issue with the vaccine is limited to females.

[Ms. Toad]

10. The same problem exists with AstraZeneca -

and that pool also included men.

In Germany - of 29 of 31 were women, EU overall 2:1 ratio of women to men.

FYI: 79 cases in the UK (19 dead), Germany 31 cases (the only countries I could find data for)

Several countries are now recommending Pfizer or Moderna for those under 50 (since the data suggests it is predominantly younger people impacted).

[Buckeye_Democrat]

19. Covid infections caused blood clotting...

... more frequently observed among younger patients too.

Article from July of last year:
COVID-19 afflicts the young, too, causing blood clots and even strokes
https://shineonlinehealth.com/covid-19-afflicts-young-people-too/

And here's the article you recently shared with me in a different thread, from the journal Science, which offered a plausible explanation for that observation among Covid patients AND the recipients of the AZ and J&J vaccines because they inject DNA instead of RNA to eventually produce the spike proteins.

Hard choices emerge as link between AstraZeneca vaccine and rare clotting disorder becomes clearer
https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2021/04/hard-choices-emerge-link-between-astrazeneca-vaccine-and-rare-clotting-disorder-becomes
----------
In their paper, Greinacher and his colleagues also speculate about a possible mechanism. Vaxzevria consists of an adenovirus engineered to infect cells and prompt them to produce the virus’ spike protein. Among the 50 billion or so virus particles in each dose, some may break apart and release their DNA, Greinacher says. Like heparin, DNA is negatively charged, which would help bind it to PF4, which has a positive charge. The complex might then trigger the production of antibodies, especially when the immune system is already on high alert because of the vaccine. An immune reaction to extracellular DNA is part of an ancient immune defense triggered by severe infection or injury, Greinacher notes, and free DNA itself can signal the body to increase blood coagulation.
----------

[wnylib]

46. Thanks for the explanations

which help to make the cause and risks more understandable.

There was a temporary vaccination site in my neighborhood which has 3 apartment buildings that are part of a senior complex. But there are some younger people in homes and apartments nearby. The vaccinators had both Moderna and J&J vaccine supplies.

Moderna was given to the seniors because we were considered more vulnerable and the Moderna and Pfizer vaccines have a higher effectiveness rating than J&J. Younger people received J&J on the idea that they were less likely to return for second shots and were generally at less risk.

AFAIK, noone who received J&J had adverse reactions. But the assumptions about the vaccines obviously need to be changed now.

[Buckeye_Democrat]

56. You're welcome.

It depends on that hypothesis, published in the well-respected "Science", being correct about free-floating DNA causing it.

And if it's true, I hope the CDC and others are checking for various degrees of clotting too... not only the clotting issues that are more obvious because of their greater health impacts. I suspect it's a wide spectrum of clotting issues, like most things that aren't simply "binary" in this world.

[RobinA]

58. Wait, Is There Proof

this was from the shot? I missed that part. How do you prove a blood clot is from a vaccine?

[hamsterjill]

60. I don't know how you prove it.

That’s why I used the word “notion” in my reply.

[RicROC]

2. my banker said...

his father died after receiving a vax. After an hour he had trouble breathing, decided against going to the hospital and then died the next day. He was 80 years old with lots of ailments, so the family has no interest in challenging any of the companies which manufacture the vaccine.

[hamsterjill]

5. I can understand that.

Sorry to hear of the loss, but totally understand their decision and respect it.

[tirebiter]

3. It was the tie that did it

Can’t breathe properly wearing something tied in a knot around your neck."

[hamsterjill]

6. I'm not sure I could make light of this.

We all react differently, but to me, this is not a joking matter. I’m not sure I understand your attempt at humor here.

[sop]

7. Justified, or not, it will be quite a while before the J&J vaccine will be used again.

Last edited Thu Apr 15, 2021, 12:53 PM - Edit history (1)

[hamsterjill]

8. I sincerely hope they find the cause.

Fix it, and continue with the vaccine. But I fear you are right in that the vaccine will be pulled indefinitely.

[Ms. Toad]

14. It's unlikely they can fix it -

It is caused by the vaccine (assuming, as evidence suggests, it is using an adenovirus vector to deliver DNA). They are very close to declaring causation as to Astra Zeneca - with the suggested mechanism being imperfect delivery of DNA, allowing some of it to float free causing a clotting disorder similar to one caused by heparin involving PF4 antibodies.

So - likely no fix, but a short pause during which:
* warnings are developed so people can make informed decisions,
* recommendations (as elsewhere) as to who should avoid the J&J vaccine (elsewhere Pfizer or Moderna are recommened to be be used for under 50s)
* treatment protocols are developed and distributed - so doctors who are likely to encounter patients don't treat them with heparin

[hamsterjill]

20. Then there will no longer be confidence in the vaccine.

Just my opinion, but I’d be willing to bet a dollar in that. It is unfortunate. In many ways.

[Ms. Toad]

51. Better to address issues as they arise,

rathern than end up with a thalidomide or DES situation.

Every drug is not fully tested until rollout - it is just that this is a drug we are trying to give to everyone in a few month's time. So the risks that would ordinarily be found a few years down the road are being found now.

The pause was appropriate (although, given the depth of knowledge we have because of AstraZeneca it could have been explained better). And - for that matter - we could have been more explicit about the difference between emergency approval and regular approval, between knowing a lot about short term consequences and nothing about long term, etc., and about the difference between these vaccines (and the other COVID vaccines) and regular vaccines

If people are misled into thinking this is just another ordinary vaccine, when there are the inevitable hiccups as we learn more, that discrepancy between what they were told and reality is what diminishes the confidence.

[Claire Oh Nette]

53. The vaccine will undergo additional safety trials

Keep in mind, this man and the six women, we're still talking about 10 out of over 7,000,000.

No medication is free from side effects or adverse events.
Cerebral Sinus thrombosis is an extremely rare blood clotting disorder. It may not be for females under 50, or men with particular underlying vascular conditions. THat's why they will scrutinize the data from the trials and the patients medical records.

If we lose the J & J vaccine entirely, again, bear in mind 7 million people have gotten that vax, compared to over 100,000,000s who've gotten Pfizer or Moderna.

Responsible reporting will cover these deaths without sensationalizing them. The risk of getting COVID is significantly higher than the infinitesimal .000044% risk of lethal blood clots.

[JohnSJ]

9. There is so much information left out. How long had he had hypertension? Was his BP well

controlled? What kind of stroke was it? was it a bleeder or from a clot? what did the lab results say, specifically in regard to the platelets

Strokes happen to people all the time, including young people

Until more information is understood, it is wrong to assume anything

[StarryNite]

11. This

[hamsterjill]

16. Agreed.

But it is prudent to investigate. The three hour time frame between the vaccination and the stroke is definitely cause for investigation.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

27. Is that even enough time to cause clotting? That's my question.

The others classes, iirc, were a week or better post vaccination.

[hamsterjill]

32. I don't know the answer.

That is an interesting point.

I hope they learn something.

[Happy Hoosier]

22. EXACTLY!

Last edited Thu Apr 15, 2021, 01:47 PM - Edit history (1)

To be clear, we need to closely check the data, but with MILLIONS of people getting these vaccines, we must not confuse temporal coincidence with causation. We need more than that. LOTS AND LOTS of people with HBP have strokes every year.

[JohnSJ]

25. Yup, and I believe that hypertension is the leading cause of stroke

[hamsterjill]

50. The article indicates that the bp was controlled by medication.

They are investigating and that is as it should be.

[tavernier]

12. Only health issue was high blood pressure?

That is one of leading causes of a stroke.

[BoringUsername]

30. Right...

He wasn't perfectly healthy if he had high blood pressure.

[BoringUsername]

31. The man was neither young nor healthy.

Really misleading headline.

[hamsterjill]

34. I'm 62. He's young to me.

This wasn’t posted in LBN.

Can we lighten up a bit and quit deflecting? The real importance here in my opinion is that it’s a male when most other instances have involved females.

[Scrivener7]

15. Once I got really sick after vacuuming the living room rug.

[hamsterjill]

17. Did you have a stroke?

Were you paralyzed and unable to move or speak?

Because that’s what this man is facing. His family has set up a go fund me account to cover the expense.

[Scrivener7]

21. No. But my grandfather had a stroke after playing Gin Rummy.

My point being that correlation is not causation.

[hamsterjill]

23. Sorry about your grandfather.

The cause in this case is being investigated and has not been definitively ruled. It is prudent and appropriate that it be. Meanwhile, a 43-year old man is not laughing.

[Ron Obvious]

18. Man with high blood pressure has stroke.

Is just as valid a description.

[StarryNite]

29. But that wouldn't make the news.

On the other hand, this does need to be investigated to see if it is related to the vaccine. It just seems like now more is being made of the few incidents of possible Covid vaccine related side effects than on Covid itself. I think it's important to report on any possible negative vaccine related incidents but the primary focus should still be on Covid.

I got the J&J just over 3 weeks ago. I want to know if there is something I need to be on the alert for but still...

"At least 932 new coronavirus deaths and 75,267 new cases were reported in the United States on April 14. Over the past week, there has been an average of 71,511 cases per day, an increase of 11 percent from the average two weeks earlier. As of Thursday morning, more than 31,444,600 people in the United States have been infected with the coronavirus according to a New York Times database."

[link:https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/us/coronavirus-us-cases.html|

[Phoenix61]

24. Looks like a condition that affects young people.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4078604/

From the article:
“ Of total 50 patients with diagnosis of CVST, 21 (42%) were males and 29 (58%) were females with 39 ± 10 years and 29 ± 7 years, respectively. ”
So men age 29-49 and women age 22-36. That’s so young. I’d always associated stroke with older people.

From another cite:
“The incidence was 1.78/100,000 per year for women (95% CI: 1.13-2.43) and 1.16/100,000 per year for men (95% CI: 0.57-1.75).”
For a sample of 1 million you’d expect to see 17-18 cases in women and 11-12 in men. It’s entirely possible the J&J vaccine doesn’t have anything to do with it.

[hamsterjill]

26. It is possible that the vaccine has nothing to do with it.

It remains unknown; therefore, investigation and determination is prudent and appropriate.

But the time frame of having the stroke three hours after being vaccinated is suspicious.

[Phoenix61]

55. That makes it less likely to be a side effect

of the vaccine not more. The other cases were between 6 and 13 days after the vaccine.

[BoringUsername]

28. 43 year old equals young man?

The headline should have just been man, not young man. Young man makes you think of someone in their late teens/early twenties. Bad headline.

[hamsterjill]

33. 43 is young to me.

All in perspective, I guess.

[BoringUsername]

35. Point is the headline was deceptive

It's trying to get people upset about J&J giving a young, healthy man a stroke. He's middle aged and he has high blood pressure. It's misleading to refer to him as young and healthy. Headline should have just been "man suffers stroke..." instead of "young, healthy man suffers stroke...".

[hamsterjill]

36. It's not a headline.

It’s a subject line.

There is NOTHING in the post that is not in the news story. If someone doesn’t want to know about these instances, they should skip over the thread. Are you suggesting that instances like this should be hidden?

The story is fact and DU’ers are smart enough to understand, read the story if they choose, and make their own conclusion.

Sheesh!

[BoringUsername]

37. Headline in the linked article is

‘Young, healthy’ man suffers stroke hours after receiving J&J vaccine

[hamsterjill]

39. I give up.

Welcome to DU. I see you’ve only been here a short time. Enjoy your stay.

[BoringUsername]

40. I've actually been here since 2002

But I stopped posting with my other account. I can't access it anymore because of the email address it was linked to.

I was criticizing the news article's choice of headline, not you.

[hamsterjill]

42. Well thanks for clarifying that.

Have a great day and welcome BACK to DU then.

[BoringUsername]

43. 😊 n/t

[progressoid]

38. It's young for a stroke victim

While a stroke can happen to anyone, the vast majority happen to those over 55

[hamsterjill]

41. Thank you.

The argument over the subject line is just to deflect from the facts of the story. The man had a stroke after receiving the vaccine, and there is an investigation ongoing. I guess that upsets some people who keep insisting that the vaccines only affect a small percentage negatively. I stipulate and agree that it is a small percentage. But if you are one in that percentage, then I think you’d feel differently.

To me, it’s exactly what should be happening. Investigate everything and LEARN.

[sarcasmo]

44. Kick!

[NNadir]

45. It is apparently impossible for a 43 man to have a stroke w/o a vaccine.

It's surprising that the word "stroke" existed before development of the vaccine.

[hamsterjill]

47. Not impossible.

But the fact that he had received the vaccine three hours prior to the stroke is cause to investigate, no???

[NNadir]

52. Even in controlled clinical trials, statistics matter.

People who die from Covid often die from clotting side effects, including embolisms and strokes.

One cannot elevate a single case over a larger number of cases of victims of Covid. Doing so is not only bad science, it's dangerous.

[Midnight Writer]

48. Could it be he already had Covid?

I know that they warn us not to take the flu vaccine if we already have flu symptoms.

My understanding is that the flu vaccine can actually increase the severity of symptoms in a person already infected.

I went to get my J&J shot, and I was not checked or asked about Covid symptoms.

Just wondering.

[hamsterjill]

49. Certainly something to consider I would think.

n/t

[roamer65]

54. Could very well be a rare reaction to the adenovirus used in the J&J and AZ vaccines.

Have not heard of these reactions from Pfizer or Moderna yet.

[LisaL]

57. The timeline of this one is very different that from the other six cases.

My guess is, this one had nothing to do with vaccine and everything with his high blood pressure.

[hamsterjill]

59. Seven women now.

I apologize for the Fox link, but that’s where I saw the article:

https://www.foxnews.com/health/clot-case-7-johnson-johnson-covid-19-vaccine-cdc.amp

I agree that the timeline involving the 43-year old man is very different.