General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsAdam Toledo Video Shows Chicago Police Shooting 13-Year-Old As He Raised His Hands
https://blockclubchicago.org/2021/04/15/adam-toledo-video-shows-chicago-police-shooting-13-year-old-graphic-video/The videos come from body cameras worn by police when an officer fatally shot Toledo on March 29 in Little Village. The Civilian Office of Police Accountability which is investigating the shooting also released third-party video, transmission from the citys Office of Emergency Communications, ShotSpotter recordings, case incident information and tactical response and arrest reports.
Mayor Lori Lightfoot, the Toledo familys attorneys and local leaders have asked people to remain peaceful as the footage is released.
Lightfoot said it is excruciating to watch the videos, particularly footage that shows Toledo mortally wounded after an officer shot him. She and Little Village community leaders held a news conference where they said the video will raise strong emotions in people and urged people to protest nonviolently.
Please protect yourself. There is a distressing photo at the link and the video, further down at the link, is deeply grievous.
FTP.
hedda_foil
(16,375 posts)TDale313
(7,820 posts)luckone
(21,646 posts)gratuitous
(82,849 posts)Have you ever heard that advice from our leaders when a cop is shot and killed? How about from the cop's family? His friends? Cohort on the police force?
stillcool
(32,626 posts)before it gets any worse. If there is a God, please help us all
Arazi
(6,829 posts)Must be an accident!!11! It was a "stressful" situation11!!1
Sickening.
Utterly sickening.
Fuck these fucking racist cops. Really. Just fuck them all the way to hell
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)I'm not going to watch this dreadful tragedy.
Arazi
(6,829 posts)Other than this pig shouldn't get off so easily by killing himself. He should rot in prison for the rest of his life
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)Coming from different directions to a point of commonality where..., what? Whatever, understanding in itself is good.
Arazi
(6,829 posts)demmiblue
(36,903 posts)luckone
(21,646 posts)Demovictory9
(32,482 posts)TDale313
(7,820 posts)live love laugh
(13,164 posts)Hassin Bin Sober
(26,347 posts)uponit7771
(90,367 posts)Demovictory9
(32,482 posts)it's up to experts to determine category of action but the supervisor turns off cameras to stop providing addition info and get stories staight
uponit7771
(90,367 posts)joshcryer
(62,277 posts)OK, because some crybaby cops will cry that they can't take a piss or shit with it on, turn it off when they go to the bathroom.
KS Toronado
(17,375 posts)cinematicdiversions
(1,969 posts)There needs to be a murder charge.
superpatriotman
(6,253 posts)Cant tell by reading the shitty reporting:
Immediately after commanding Toledo to show his hands, the officer shot the boy at close distance. Toledos hands were raised when he was shot, the footage shows.
Toledo collapses into the parking lot.
Footage released by police does not show Toledo point or raise a gun at the officer at the end of the chase. Toledo does not appear to be holding the gun as an officer shot him, though video does not clearly show him dropping the gun.
If he WAS armed, it may be hard to justify not using force.
spudspud
(511 posts)uponit7771
(90,367 posts)sarisataka
(18,821 posts)He had a gun in his right hand when he arrived at the fence. It seems he dropped it while turning so he did not have it when the cop fired.
uponit7771
(90,367 posts)... I'm looking at video below and pause starting at 2:00 at .25 ... there's no gun shown in the kids hands.
The LEO also turned off bodycam ... whatever he says in his favor is bullshit now
sarisataka
(18,821 posts)Here is a still pulled from there where the gun is in his hand behind his back. I need a bigger screen than my phone to see if it can be determined when he drops it.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EzCsSOVXMAoWDPQ?format=jpg&name=900x900
uponit7771
(90,367 posts)... can't be trusted because they cut the video on the body cam.
The officer shouldn't be given the benefit of the doubt when they do flaky shit like that.
sarisataka
(18,821 posts)There is nothing corresponding to that shape after the kids falls.
They body cam captured the pursuit, shooting and some of the aftermath. We have the views we need although the supervisor who gave that order should be disciplined
uponit7771
(90,367 posts).... there's no solid picture of a gun before the shooting and no account of a gun afterwards
SYFROYH
(34,185 posts)I think it is very possible that he had the gun in his hand at that time in the above picture, swung it behind the fence, continued turning, and showed his hands. The above picture with what looks like a gun appears to show the first 1 1/2 inches of the barrel as would be the case with a typical handgun with the slide locked back.
Although a close call, it appears the kid did not have a gun in his hand when the cop made the decision to shoot, but it does appear he had a gun a second earlier.
uponit7771
(90,367 posts)Deminpenn
(15,290 posts)in the first place?
uponit7771
(90,367 posts)mucifer
(23,576 posts)I don't think this is the same as George Floyd's murder.
The cop immediately called 911 and started CPR.
It's bad. But, it's not the same.
Deminpenn
(15,290 posts)Agree that this is different from the Floyd death. This cop did call for an ambulance immediately and rendered aid. Still bad, though.
It also makes you wonder where are the parents that their 13 yr old son is out in the middle of the night? I know it's different today what with many single parent households and people working multiple jobs to make ends meet. Kids can be sneaky, too, fooling their parents about what they are doing. Still...
Response to mucifer (Reply #105)
DiamondShark This message was self-deleted by its author.
luckone
(21,646 posts)WhiskeyGrinder
(22,467 posts)Dustlawyer
(10,497 posts)I think the cop knew he had a gun but fired too quickly before he could see the kids hands were now empty. The cop made a fatal mistake.
We do ourselves no favors when we claim all killings are with racist or murderous intent. Chauvin wanted George Floyd dead and should have been charged with 1st degree murder. Here I do not believe it was the case. It is really tough when it is a kid but this is more manslaughter absent facts showing he wanted to kill for other reasons than self defense.
WhiskeyGrinder
(22,467 posts)Except Adam Toledo's death came at the very end of a series of decisions made within a white supremacist framework. We don't need to "claim" racist or murderous intent. The very existence of the police is racist and oppressive.
Arazi
(6,829 posts)How can that not be racist and murderous on the face of it?
Officer gives the order then shoots instantly. This is shades of 12 yr old Tamir Rice who similarly got shot within a second of the officer arriving.
The assumption is black people are dangerous.
The default by the police is black people are dangerous
bullwinkle428
(20,631 posts)Kyle Rittenhouse is walking around and breathing today.
uponit7771
(90,367 posts)sheshe2
(83,967 posts)Why have body cams if you turn them off? The supervisor should be fired for that command as should the officer.
pandr32
(11,631 posts)What the hell do these police want from their 'suspects'? There is no way to appease their hatred and fear of Black men and boys.
I read something years ago (cannot recall the source) that claimed that slave owners feared the males because of their muscular power and presumed sexual superiority. Plantation owners were not in the same kind of physical shape--mostly due to their easy life of excess. The only way to feel superior was by taking the means of power at their disposal to control the 'beasts' they imagined their slaves to be.
It appears the same irrational fears still exist.
malaise
(269,222 posts)Duppers
(28,127 posts)Bristlecone
(10,135 posts)ashredux
(2,609 posts)WhiskeyGrinder
(22,467 posts)killed Daunte Wright, was held up a year ago as an example of successful reforms. Reform isn't enough. Abolish it all.
ashredux
(2,609 posts)We need a community based police force without info and racism
WhiskeyGrinder
(22,467 posts)Community policing is still policing, and turns the community against itself.
ashredux
(2,609 posts)WhiskeyGrinder
(22,467 posts)Why did someone steal my TV? What need of theirs was not being met?
ashredux
(2,609 posts)Im not saying that the policing as we know it now is good. Im saying we need a police force, and we can do that with community based policing where the police officers know the people in the community and the community knows them. Im really not sure what youre trying to say, but it appears you have some issues.
WhiskeyGrinder
(22,467 posts)apnu
(8,759 posts)Then the cops won't be in a state of total fear. Or, at least, have that excuse.
Also, bonus to getting rid of guns, less children will have access to them. Imagine that, children who don't have guns. Crazy right?
Binkie The Clown
(7,911 posts)Afrocat
(2,771 posts)Binkie The Clown
(7,911 posts)...when a neighbor passed away and I found her body. They were very polite and understanding. Outside of that, I stay far away from them. If I walk into a store and there's a police officer there, I turn around and walk back out and wait in the parking lot for them to leave. Police officers make me VERY nervous. Just the sight of a pistol on their belt ties my gut in knots. And I'm an elderly white male. I can only imagine how the young, the non-male, and non-white must feel. One twitch of an index finger and you're entire life can be taken away from you. Guns are supremely evil inventions. I learned to shoot in the Air Force, but I also learned to throw a grenade. I don't wish to ever handle, or even see either one again. Ever.
WhiskeyGrinder
(22,467 posts)ashredux
(2,609 posts)WhiskeyGrinder
(22,467 posts)ashredux
(2,609 posts)Its difficult...it can be demoralizing...we have many now who do not belong in our community police force. We need to change it. Not demolish it....
Im not sure WHAT you would have in its place....
Binkie The Clown
(7,911 posts)Here in Eugene, OR we have an organization called "Cahoots" https://www.eugene-or.gov/4508/CAHOOTS
For example, when someone is having a mental health crisis, DO NOT send armed thugs to shoot the victim, as has happened here in the past. Instead, send someone trained to deal with mental health crises. Come with the intention of de-escalating and helping, not with guns blazing like mindless militarized robots trained only to shoot first and ask question, maybe, later.
apnu
(8,759 posts)Cheap easy access to guns and poor human decision making is the problem. If there are no guns, cops won't presume every perp has one and do this stuff.
No amount of training will change the fight or flight reflexes we all have.
BlueTsunami2018
(3,505 posts)This may be an unpopular opinion but Im not so sure I can fault the officer here. The kid did have a gun. He may have dropped it before he turned around but its hard to see because his hand is partially behind the fence. The picture shown there, which is sure to be plastered everywhere very soon, doesnt really tell the story of the video I watched. Thats a millisecond of the event. My opinion can change with further evidence but, from what I saw on the video, this is a neutral shoot.
Regardless, it isnt going to turn out well.
uponit7771
(90,367 posts)... what's the kid stopped it's damn common sense not to get closer
Every single time we see one of these shits happening these bastards are escalating and doing stuff that's not even common sense to civilians
BlueTsunami2018
(3,505 posts)And certainly not with an unbiased perspective.
But I expect this to be a thing. And the police have asked to be judged that way for so long that its difficult to feel sympathy.
This wasnt the sort of blatant police murder weve seen before. Not to my eye.
uponit7771
(90,367 posts)... from his hand ether.
The LEO cut the video right after the shooting and does not deserve the benefit of the doubt.
If the leo didn't cut the vid I can see peoples perspective about a close call, they don't get one when there's nothing OPENLY CLEAR CUT and they stop video
Chakaconcarne
(2,467 posts).
uponit7771
(90,367 posts)... the leo cut video after the shooting so they lose the benefit of the doubt afterwards.
The leo cut the video is stupid, if things were on the up an up or even close why cut video?!?!
Nah, murder
Lokee11
(235 posts)He tossed it right before the executioner got there and not as he was turning. And I presume the reason he dropped it was so he would NOT get shot. Hands are clearly up WITHOUT a weapon.
There is another video from behind the fence that shows before - I repeat BEFORE - he even started to turn he tossed the gun some feet from him.
I hope you can find it for I have to log off because I am too infuriated right now.
He turned with his hands clearly up without a weapon and was shot dead - WHAT THE FUCK - Seriously🤬
✊🏼!
uponit7771
(90,367 posts)... and I still wonder why the LEO would get close to the kid if he was still in a situation to pull the trigger.
These guys do stuff that makes no sense on its face
BlueTsunami2018
(3,505 posts)How is the cop supposed to know he didnt still have it? Im sorry but take your emotion out of it.
uponit7771
(90,367 posts)Lokee11
(235 posts)If that "instant' is too much for him to understand the kid is complying with his directions and he is in such fear he needs to shoot the kid who clearly turns "showing his hands" with his hands up WITHOUT a gun - then HE SHOULD NOT BE A LEO AND FURTHERMORE HE NEEDS TO BE PROSECUTED FOR MURDERING WHAT WAS AN UNARMED 13 YEAR OLD CHILD!
But maybe my emotions is what is making the video show that he does not have a gun when he turns with his hands up, maybe it is my emotions that is making me come to the conclusion that when I watch this video below and at the 1:34 mark they find a gun laying up against the fence - it is the object that at the 2:24 mark of the video Adam is seen tossing in that exact area behind the fence -
[link:
it shows, it is blurry, but shows him toss something behind the fence in that area. So yeah, maybe it is my emotions that comes to the conclusion that if in the video it is seen that Adam tossed something in the exact same area where the gun was found - prior to turning around, it was the gun he tossed, and thus when he turned around he did not have the gun.
No matter how much the cop wanted, needed, assumed, thought, feared, concluded, and so on and so forth, that he had a gun at that moment - Truth is - he did not!
But yeah you're right, I mean who am I going to believe the Chicago Police Department or these emotional lyin' fuckin eyes of mine?
✊!
Response to BlueTsunami2018 (Reply #19)
DiamondShark This message was self-deleted by its author.
spanone
(135,902 posts)goddammit
luckone
(21,646 posts)Link to tweet
?
How long has the local media here been feeding us the police story that yes, its a shame but he had a gun and pointed it at the police ?.?.?... I have to give them props on this one the myth is so solidly implanted in many Chicago citizens by now as fact on the news that if they do not see the video they may not believe it is so different from the story we were told here . It was all fake to keep down protests
We have the video camera now and unfortunately had to demand it after Laquan McDonalds killing that CPD cant stall like that for too long before releasing
Thanks to all active groups working with the family to release this terrible truth
Adam Toledo
uponit7771
(90,367 posts)...word for ANYTHING.
Why would a LEO get close to someone who he thinks he needs to plug, when the kid stopped he should've gotten further away vs up close.
Damn
Deminpenn
(15,290 posts)Every time one of these shootings happens, you get the boilerplate from LE about the cop "fearing for his life" because that is what SCOTUS defined as justification for using deadly force.
Moostache
(9,897 posts)If anyone is actually so afraid for their life, they do not get a badge and a gun. Let them "serve the force" as a janitor or secretary or riding a desk and filing paperwork...they lack the ability to be trusted to handle a life threatening situation with the appropriate level of calm and bravery.
These cowards fire first, fake the scene second (call to turn OFF cams? yea...THAT is sure kosher...) and then they lie about being afraid.
He chased that kid, he drew his weapon and decided as soon as they were in a pursuit situation that he was going to shoot first, fake the reason later and claim fear last. That is standard operating procedure for LEO when they do this shit.
That kid may or may no have had a weapon at one time, but those ARE EMPTY HANDS WHEN HE TURNS and they are raised as he attempts to comply. That POS coward officer acted as judge, jury and executioner on that kid and that is NOT the duty of LEOs. Who did he protect there? Who did he serve? HIMSELF. He was an officer unfit for duty, an officer with deep prejudices and preconceived notions of conflict resolution and he was an officer that has seen too many reruns of "Lethal Weapon", thinking he is a latter-day Martin Riggs or Roger Murtaugh.
world wide wally
(21,757 posts)AZLD4Candidate
(5,798 posts)and a "I am the law" mentality. Amazing how people will defend the officer.
WhiskeyGrinder
(22,467 posts)They are trained to have this kind of reaction. This is a feature, not a bug.
CrackityJones75
(2,403 posts)Part of me wants to say Then what?
But then I have to stop and think... How many crimes do cops solve? How many do they actually deter? And then I have to ask How many do they commit?l
Is the social contract enough to hold our society together? I am not sure it is. But I DO know that how we police is NOT working and needs ti fundamentally change. What we have is not the answer and is likely not doing us a hell of a lot of good.
WhiskeyGrinder
(22,467 posts)If you're sincerely wrestling with these questions, I encourage you to read up on police abolition. www.mpd150.com has a ton of resources, using the Minneapolis Police Department, which has been "reformed" over and over again since its founding, as a case study. If we take the resources we throw at the cops, and instead use them to build a society that meets everyone's needs, then we can discard the concept of policing entirely.
CrackityJones75
(2,403 posts)In parts of the city and in some suburbs there are national guard troops on every corner. To say that MInneapolis PD has been reformed is a damned joke. They may have said some shit that it was being Reformed but it never was. Same shit different decade. I completely agree with the concepts of building societies differently through redirecting police monies. I do think that there needs to be some form of police. What I dont think is that we need to try to put people on the streets to try to police and expect that they can be prepared to deal with every aingle situation. They cant because no human beings can do that. Regardless of how much we pay them or more to the point regardless of how much you arm them.
I have no problem with police pulling people over for speeding. Just do it fairly and you dont need a damn gun to do that. I have no problem with checking peoples tabs as ling as thats where it ends. The person writing a ticket doesnt need to be the one that is dealing with a warrant situation. They need to be dealing with traffic situations.
I even have no problem with a police in charge of handling warrants. But make that group of people trained and responsible for THAT job.
And fir christ same we nee people responding ti disturbances where a mental health situation is happening instead if a person with a gun.
Police have to tru to account fir EVERY damn possibility under the sun. And some of them are going to be racist assholes. At least if we limit the number of cops carrying heat we can look at that group of people more closely. Screen them better, and will not need that many cops armed and roaming around....
This shit is nuts. People that are pulling people over for expired tabs are locked and loaded for what??? To write a damn ticket? Shit needs to end.
Sorry I went off on a tangent. I am not arguing with you at all and thanks for giving me a lonk to that. Much appreciated.
WhiskeyGrinder
(22,467 posts)I must have mixed those gin and tonics stronger than I thought! (I've lived in Minneapolis, and now live in northern MN.)
CrackityJones75
(2,403 posts)Including abolishing.
Cheers!
AZLD4Candidate
(5,798 posts)different countries.
In China, the only teach what's on the government tests, so they make good test takers and lousy students.
In our police academies, they are taught to shoot first, view people as the enemy, us v. them, and a Javert complex. Lousy training is no training.
WhiskeyGrinder
(22,467 posts)Jilly_in_VA
(10,016 posts)His hands were EMPTY. You. Do. Not. Shoot. People. Whose. Empty. Hands. Are. Up. EVER!
Dumbass cop. Murdering dumbass cop. I've had about all I can take of these cops who are not people.
WhiskeyGrinder
(22,467 posts)They are people. They are people in a system we're told we need to be safe.
bringthePaine
(1,733 posts)uponit7771
(90,367 posts)Deminpenn
(15,290 posts)IIRC, it was just on Deadline:WH that the entire encounter was 20 seconds. What stood out to me was how fast the cop escalated to losing his temper and swearing at Toledo. That in itself says to me this cop did not possess the requisite self-control to be a patrol officer.
While 13 is still kid age, but, jmho, but 13 yr olds are much more sophisticated today.
WhiskeyGrinder
(22,467 posts)They're still 13 and don't deserve to be murdered by cops.
Deminpenn
(15,290 posts)Of course he didn't deserve to be shot and killed.
WhiskeyGrinder
(22,467 posts)Shell_Seas
(3,336 posts)THIRTEEN. He was just a baby. Enough is enough. I certainly won't be mad if Chicago burns it all down tonight. When is it going to end?
dalton99a
(81,637 posts)and the kid was not holding a gun when shot
Kaleva
(36,361 posts)WhiskeyGrinder
(22,467 posts)Nevilledog
(51,220 posts)riversedge
(70,354 posts)First time have seen this. ???
Link to tweet
?s=20
Jesse Singal
@jessesingal
·
5h
1/ This is REALLY misleading. Almost dangerously so. He appeared to have a gun in his hand one moment before the shooting. I don't think anyone should be stating, with confidence, exactly what happened here, but it's a vital detail to leave out.
https://chicago.suntimes.com/news/2021/4/15/22383392/adam-toledo-shooting-video-released-chicago-police-bodycam
Quote Tweet
AJ+
@ajplus
· 9h
UPDATE: Chicago has released bodycam video of the police killing of 13-year-old #AdamToledo:
Black small square
The video shows Adam had his hands up when police opened fire, killing him.
Black small square
Cook County now says prosecutor made an error when they said Adam was holding a gun.
Tsukkomi
@ljenkins314
Replying to
@jessesingal
Yeah, I was convinced it was murder when I saw the video, but it appears he did have a gun a split second before the shooting and tossed it (which the cop likely didnt know). It all happened in a second.
Link to tweet
?s=20
uponit7771
(90,367 posts)... then got shot anyway.
If the cop was in danger then step away not get closer
live love laugh
(13,164 posts)is a lot to process.
Hindsight is 20/20.
Response to live love laugh (Reply #97)
mucifer This message was self-deleted by its author.
Response to live love laugh (Reply #97)
DiamondShark This message was self-deleted by its author.
gulliver
(13,197 posts)... and be pleasantly surprised if you aren't. I don't know the kid had a gun for sure, but if he did, reality and probability aren't friends.
Response to gulliver (Reply #115)
DiamondShark This message was self-deleted by its author.
gulliver
(13,197 posts)True, had Rittenhouse been Black, he would now be a resident of the great beyond. But, also true, had Rittenhouse done what Toledo "might have" done, Rittenhouse would also likely be dead (less likely, but still likely).
Response to gulliver (Reply #118)
DiamondShark This message was self-deleted by its author.