"No more policing, incarceration, and militarization. It can't be reformed."

[BlueLucy]

Serious question.

What happens to rapist, people who hurt children etc?

Link to tweet

[Phoenix61]

1. They do what they want.

It’s a ridiculous suggestion. Sadly, there are bad people who will do bad things.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

7. There are people who do bad things, and in the vast majority of those instances, those people have

rational-to-them reasons for doing those things. And those things can be addressed.

[Phoenix61]

18. You have never dealt with someone with

Anti-social personality disorder have you or a pedophile just to name two. There is no fixing them. They have always existed. We’ve had this conversation before. I truly wish you were right but you’re not.

[I_UndergroundPanther]

23. Dark triad people pedos and rapists

We have to do something about them. Throghout thier lives they leave a wake of trauma and ruined lives behind them.

They can't be cured but they have to be kept seperate from everyone else. They cannot be trusted with freedom.

That problem will not go away,regardless of what you do about the cops.

[Kath2]

2. A very valid question.

I really think we need to drastically re-think and reform our system of policing ASAP.

Rashida Tlaib is obviously infuriated and frustrated about these police killings happening constantly. I understand her frustration and share it.

I do not know the answer but this needs to end now.

The "thin blue line" the right wing always talks about has also always been a thin blue line of cover-ups, lying and racism.

[BlueLucy]

3. I agree with you and share the frustration but..

She says she is against reforming. It can't be reformed, she says. So what does she suggest? It's irresponsible to leave that out there without some kind of explanation.

[Kath2]

4. I agree with you.

Everyone should be outraged but there must be some sort of law enforcement. In my opinion, it needs to be purged of racist bigots.

[Withywindle]

5. Police are notoriously unhelpful to victims when it comes to rape

Boston police union chief is a child molester and they've covered it up since 1995:

https://www.bostonglobe.com/2021/04/10/metro/years-boston-police-kept-secret-union-president-was-an-alleged-child-molester/

"A Globe investigation has found that the Boston Police Department in 1995 filed a criminal complaint against him for sexual assault on a 12-year-old, and, even after the complaint was dropped, proceeded with an internal investigation that concluded that he likely committed a crime. Despite that finding, Rose kept his badge, remained on patrol for another 21 years, and rose to power in the union that represents patrol officers.

Today Boston police are fighting to keep secret how the department handled the allegations against Rose, and what, if any, penalty he faced. Over the years, this horrific case has come full circle: The father who brought his daughter in last summer to report abuse by Rose was the boy allegedly abused at age 12 in the 1995 case. The department’s lack of administrative action back then may have left Rose free to offend again and again, from one generation to the next."

[WhiskeyGrinder]

6. "What happens to rapist, people who hurt children etc?"

What happens to rapists now? The vast, vast majority of people who commit sexual assaults go free. Police retraumatize victims when "trying" to "help" them. There is a better way.

In an abolitionist model, we look at the ways we can meet people's needs so they don't cause harm. It doesn't mean flipping a switch and eliminating the police overnight. It means dedicating yourself to other models of harm reduction that also don't harm people in themselves.

Take the example of rape. Childhood trauma and lack of empathy are two of the largest pathways that lead to sexual assault. Both of those can be off-ramped in childhood through better parenting and schooling. If we take the resources that go towards policing and apply them to better parenting and schooling, rape will go down.

[BlueLucy]

9. She won't be taken seriously with a statement like what she made

without the nuance like you provided.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

10. That's the point of a shocking statement like "abolish the police." It gets people talking about it.

Like this.

[Happy Hoosier]

11. "Rape will go down"

Okay, that’s good, but it won’t go away. Should the victims have no recourse?

If someone steals my car, can they keep it?

The simple truth is that unless we want the Wild West, we will still need police in some form.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

12. .

Okay, that’s good, but it won’t go away. Should the victims have no recourse?

It's hard to say whether it will go away entirely or not. It's probably true that it won't, so there should be a system of recourse. What do victims need? What do perpetrators need? If they need something, should they get it? Whose best interest does it serve?

If someone steals my car, can they keep it?

Is this a real question? No. You either get your car back or, if it's trashed, insurance replaces it.

The simple truth is that unless we want the Wild West, we will still need police in some form.

Is it the police that keeps you from stealing a car?

[Happy Hoosier]

16. ..

1) rehabilitation and healing is great and all, but is that enough? It is a justice system, not a revenge system, but some sense of justice against wrongs must be served.

2) Who would enforce that? If the police are abolished, how do I get my car back? What’s to stop the thieves from just taking it again?

3) me? No... of course not. But I think it’s pure fantasy that we will reach some sort of enlightened state where everybody does the right thing for it’s own sake. How about we see how our societal transformation goes before we abolish police?

[WhiskeyGrinder]

28. .

1) rehabilitation and healing is great and all, but is that enough? It is a justice system, not a revenge system, but some sense of justice against wrongs must be served.

Justice looks different to everybody. In a system that focuses on restoration and accountability, and then rehabilitation, what does punishment serve?

2) Who would enforce that? If the police are abolished, how do I get my car back? What’s to stop the thieves from just taking it again?

The work a community does to invest in itself so people don't feel the need to take a car.

3) me? No... of course not. But I think it’s pure fantasy that we will reach some sort of enlightened state where everybody does the right thing for it’s own sake. How about we see how our societal transformation goes before we abolish police?

Abolishing the police doesn't mean flipping a switch and having them be gone. But it does mean investing and working as if we assume that someday they will be. When I say "abolish the police," that is what I mean.

[Phoenix61]

19. It's not hard to say. It won't go away.

You’re great at dissing the current system and asking questions but you’ve yet to provide any alternatives. Can comprehensive social services make things better? Absolutely! But it’s not a cure all. Psychopathology exists. It always has and it always will. Is it possible we will one day be able to determine the genetics of empathy and conscience? Maybe. But what do you suggest we do until then?

[WhiskeyGrinder]

29. .

You’re great at dissing the current system and asking questions but you’ve yet to provide any alternatives. Can comprehensive social services make things better? Absolutely! But it’s not a cure all. Psychopathology exists. It always has and it always will. Is it possible we will one day be able to determine the genetics of empathy and conscience? Maybe. But what do you suggest we do until then?

Not only would it be comprehensive social services, it would mean serious investments in education and healthcare to divest them of white supremacy, jobs and the social safety net to ensure those who want to work are well compensated and those who do not/cannot don't fall through the cracks, culture and community to ensure everyone has access to the full riches of life. That's the alternative.

Psychopathology exists, but at a lot lower rate than people think, and psychopaths walk among us without hurting us every day. Empathy and conscience are not genetic; it's a very rare serial killer who didn't have an ugly childhood or an untreated severe injury/illness.

[MichMan]

20. Incarceration of rapists, murderers, pedophiles and car thieves

stops them from continuing to do it.

What do you think would happen if there was zero enforcement of traffic laws and no consequences for driving drunk, running red lights, or speeding at 90 mph in school zones?

[AZProgressive]

27. Less than 1% of all rapes result in felony convictions

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2018/10/06/less-than-percent-rapes-lead-felony-convictions-least-percent-victims-face-emotional-physical-consequences/

Are you familiar with backlogs on rape kits?

(Snip)

But the rape-kit scandal has turned out to be only a visible symptom, a mole on the skin that hints at a pervasive cancer just below the surface. The deeper problem is a criminal-justice system in which police officers continue to reflexively disbelieve women who say they’ve been raped—even in this age of the #MeToo movement, and even when DNA testing can confirm many allegations. From the moment a woman calls 911 (and it is almost always a woman; male victims rarely report sexual assaults), a rape allegation becomes, at every stage, more likely to slide into an investigatory crevice. Police may try to discourage the victim from filing a report. If she insists on pursuing a case, it may not be assigned to a detective. If her case is assigned to a detective, it will likely close with little investigation and no arrest. If an arrest is made, the prosecutor may decline to bring charges: no trial, no conviction, no punishment.

Each year, roughly 125,000 rapes are reported across the United States. Sometimes the decision to close a case is surely correct; no one wants to smear an innocent man’s reputation or curtail his freedom because of a false report. But in 49 out of every 50 rape cases, the alleged assailant goes free—often, we now know, to assault again. Which means that rape—more than murder, more than robbery or assault—is by far the easiest violent crime to get away with.

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2019/08/an-epidemic-of-disbelief/592807/

You do realize Trump openly admitted to sexual battery and that because he was a star they let him get away with it and he was accused of rape in lawsuits and he was the last President.

Then There is the Louisville Police Department

Louisville police, county attorney's office hide 738,000 records in Explorer sex abuse case

Louisville Metro Police concealed at least 738,000 records documenting the sexual abuse of Explorer Scouts by two officers — then lied to keep the files from the public, records show.

The Courier Journal last year requested all records regarding sexual abuse of minors by two officers in the Explorer Scout program for youths interested in law enforcement careers.

(Snip)

In fact, the department still had at least 738,000 records, which the city allowed to be deleted.

The records could shed light on when department and city officials first learned of allegations of sexual abuse of youths by officers in the program and what the officials did — or failed to do — about it.

https://www.courier-journal.com/story/news/crime/2020/11/11/lmpd-explorer-scandal-lawyers-say-police-lied-conceal-records/6224382002/

Boston PD union

Boston PD Covered Up Police Union Head’s Child Molestation Charges for 25 Years

https://truthout.org/articles/boston-pd-covered-up-police-union-heads-child-molestation-charges-for-25-years/

These 2 articles are worth reading.

https://www.propublica.org/article/false-rape-accusations-an-unbelievable-story

https://www.propublica.org/article/police-fail-stop-nfl-darren-sharper-rape-spree

I support this.

Link to tweet

[WhiskeyGrinder]

30. Actually, it doesn't.

I mean, first, that's assuming cops make the effort to find the perpetrators. People who rape and kill who actually ARE charged, convicted and sentenced often continue to do so in prison. Prison doesn't keep people safe.

What do you think would happen if there was zero enforcement of traffic laws and no consequences for driving drunk, running red lights, or speeding at 90 mph in school zones?

These things happen anyway, right? If people feel very strongly about them, the community can put up red-light cameras and build school zones in such a way that 90 mph is impossible. Drunk-driving campaigns routinely bring about a drop in drunk driving, and providing a framework so people don't need to drive drunk -- better hire-car services, a bar car service, whatever -- can also help. If people truly feel like they can't live without cops, a community could invest in an anti-drunk-driving proctor who has the power to stop cars and get someone home. But if that's happening a lot, ideally the community would realize that there's a problem that needs addressing.

[Phoenix61]

25. "Rape will go down" but it won't go away.

What do you suggest we do?

[WhiskeyGrinder]

32. About...?

[RobinA]

8. Really, It's Part

and parcel of our country at this moment. Mass shootings once a day or more. Cops shooting people every other day. Here in Philadelphia, the murder rate is on a rocket to Mars. Something fundamental will have to shift before this violence stops. It’s there for a reason.

[Celerity]

13. Sanders says he disagrees with Tlaib's call for 'no more policing'

https://www.weny.com/story/43671791/sanders-says-he-disagrees-with-tlaibs-call-for-no-more-policing

[WhiskeyGrinder]

14. Unsurprising.

[WarGamer]

15. That's not helping...

It's really simple. Cops need to be taught in cop school (Academy) that they will be prosecuted for being an a-hole and other cops aren't there to cover it up for them.

Then prosecute the hell out of some bad ones, make some examples and it'll clean up.

Do what LA is doing, forming unarmed teams with Social Workers to respond to non-violent scenes.

[cinematicdiversions]

17. Do you want lynch mobs?

Because getting rid of the police will get you lynch mobs... and helpful hint, they won't all be progressive and looking to talk.

This is a dangerous idea because it promotes violence against societies most vulnerable. We have already seen the death rate of African American males skyrocket this year. And it isn't due to to much policing. It is often due to a new hands off approach.

Rashida Tlaib should know what a society where men meet under a tree and take justice into tier own hands looks like. We don't want to live in that society.

[MichMan]

21. Tlaib represents a district with high crime

I seriously doubt that the residents are in agreement with abolishing police and releasing all prisoners

[Archae]

22. I have to say this is the stupidest thing she's tweeted.

Correct the problems, don't dump us into anarchy because of the bad ones.

[Humanist_Activist]

24. I find it illuminating that you assume police enforce those laws consistently.

They are not our protectors and are generally pretty bad at solving crime this country. Why prop them up? Hell there is evidence that more policing actually increases criminal behavior.

[betsuni]

26. "It can't be reformed."

[hardluck]

31. Rough Justice

Families and communities will take “justice” into their own hands. Educational beat downs, extrajudicial executions, etc.

[MineralMan]

33. I'll bet she calls 911 when she hears a burglar

in the place where she lives.

We need to end racist policing. We need to prosecute and convict racist cops who target people of color. We need new policing policies.

However, we will always need the police to be there when we need them to be there.

These broad statements are foolish, and make her look foolish, as well.