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Buckeye_Democrat

(14,852 posts)
Sat Apr 17, 2021, 07:40 AM Apr 2021

Maps Show the Extremes of U.S. Population Density

These Powerful Maps Show the Extremes of U.S. Population Density
https://www.visualcapitalist.com/maps-extremes-us-population-density/

America’s 328 million people are spread across a huge amount of territory, but the population density of various regions is far from equal.

It’s no secret that cities like New York have a vastly different population density than, say, a rural county in North Dakota. Even so, this interactive map by Ben Blatt of Slate helps visualize the stark contrast between urban and rural densities in a way that might intrigue you.

How many counties does it take to equal the population of these large urban areas? Let’s find out.



New York City’s Rural Equivalent
New York City became the largest city in the U.S. back in 1781 and has long been the country’s most densely packed urban center. Today, 1 in every 38 people living in the United States resides in The Big Apple.


Los Angeles County’s Rural Equivalent


Chicago’s Rural Equivalent
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Maps Show the Extremes of U.S. Population Density (Original Post) Buckeye_Democrat Apr 2021 OP
Interesting. salin Apr 2021 #1
Another good illustration as to why the senate shouldn't exist as well as the EC. JanMichael Apr 2021 #2
MAN, you sure can say THAT again. calimary Apr 2021 #5
It's ridiculous. Buckeye_Democrat Apr 2021 #8
+1000 smirkymonkey Apr 2021 #13
Yes, I don't believe the writers of the constitution anticipated the country's expansion Buckeyeblue Apr 2021 #23
I'm no so sure Zeitghost Apr 2021 #32
I agree. The Senate and House are wnylib Apr 2021 #66
The Senate was never meant to represent people! forthemiddle Apr 2021 #38
We have the power to change our government. roamer65 Apr 2021 #44
This message was self-deleted by its author DiamondShark Apr 2021 #82
All for getting rid DownriverDem Apr 2021 #26
And they know this, which is why Republicans are so paranoid DSandra Apr 2021 #45
It's a good illustration of why the founding fathers set it up the way they did Amishman Apr 2021 #51
+1,000,000 ancianita Apr 2021 #59
The Senate is there to represent the state's interest. Calista241 Apr 2021 #63
there WOULD BE NO United States without the Senate and EC... WarGamer Apr 2021 #65
I dont mind having some form of Senate but the current one is unworkable and we need some other tie cstanleytech Apr 2021 #75
1 in every 38 people... druidity33 Apr 2021 #3
I was very surprised too. Buckeye_Democrat Apr 2021 #7
I buy tech stuff from B&H in NYC all the time. LOVE that Company!! Bengus81 Apr 2021 #22
I just Google-searched that company. Buckeye_Democrat Apr 2021 #25
Yes, they're great! IrishAfricanAmerican Apr 2021 #30
Yup...looking to replace an aging Canon MB2720 printer Bengus81 Apr 2021 #31
Live down the (long) block from them! JonAndKatePlusABird Apr 2021 #50
They were my local photo shop when I lived in NYC. SeattleVet Apr 2021 #62
There's a simple explanation. There's work in NYC. A lot of it. Yavin4 Apr 2021 #39
Crime rates are probably lower too Bucky Apr 2021 #58
People think "big cities" are hotbeds of crime Withywindle Apr 2021 #77
This message was self-deleted by its author Buckeye_Democrat Apr 2021 #78
If Brooklyn was still a separate city Withywindle Apr 2021 #76
If only my distant ancestors had not sold... Buckeye_Democrat Apr 2021 #79
The interactive map is at UpInArms Apr 2021 #4
NoDak vs. Rochester NY RicROC Apr 2021 #19
Fascinating, thanks for posting PatSeg Apr 2021 #6
No taxation superpatriotman Apr 2021 #9
❤ Kick. nt littlemissmartypants Apr 2021 #10
Population Density Is Directly Proportional modrepub Apr 2021 #11
good assessment NJCher Apr 2021 #16
I posted a video about your post. Yavin4 Apr 2021 #40
Thank you for this. niyad Apr 2021 #12
On a smaller scale, the three counties consisting of Metro-Detroit are 38% of Michigan's population. Crowman2009 Apr 2021 #14
So true DownriverDem Apr 2021 #27
Nearly half of Michiganders reside in Wayne, Washtenaw, Oakland and Macomb counties. roamer65 Apr 2021 #37
Trump got more votes in Wayne County then he did in all of Upper Michigan Kaleva Apr 2021 #57
Uninhabited land has more political power in the US than people. Lonestarblue Apr 2021 #15
Before Covid changed our whole commuting/working situation FakeNoose Apr 2021 #17
One person, one vote. flying_wahini Apr 2021 #18
This is why a bunch of us have this in the sig BumRushDaShow Apr 2021 #20
+1000 paleotn Apr 2021 #54
Cool, I love visuals! BigmanPigman Apr 2021 #56
Wow!!! GeoWilliam750 Apr 2021 #68
The visualizations are supposed to be showing "vote share" vs actual final electoral outcome BumRushDaShow Apr 2021 #80
Wyoming almost exactly equal to Indianapolis (Marion County) Captain Zero Apr 2021 #21
Modify the ERA? 3825-87867 Apr 2021 #24
I hear a certain Democratic Senator enraged too Polybius Apr 2021 #49
Liberals like to live close to each other IronLionZion Apr 2021 #28
Most of the votes Trump got in Michigan came from urban areas. Kaleva Apr 2021 #34
That's not really a valid statistic. Elessar Zappa Apr 2021 #52
Trump would have gotten smoked in '16 and '20 w/o the support he got from the urban areas Kaleva Apr 2021 #55
He did get smoked in 2020. ShazzieB Apr 2021 #71
I'm talking "landslide, election called that night" smoked. Kaleva Apr 2021 #74
liberals get along regardless DBoon Apr 2021 #35
Liberals like to live where there are better employment opportunities Yavin4 Apr 2021 #41
This is just me, but I would go nuts if there wasn't a coffee shop, pizza place or a bookstore... Crowman2009 Apr 2021 #64
Me, too! ShazzieB Apr 2021 #72
I like to have amenities within a short drive also... less than 10 miles for sure Demovictory9 Apr 2021 #81
I'm liberal, but I don't like congested areas. Buckeye_Democrat Apr 2021 #70
The Senate has forgotten its original purpose... Volaris Apr 2021 #29
Republicans have nationalized their agenda. Yavin4 Apr 2021 #43
Where should we grow our food? GemDigger Apr 2021 #33
You get rid of cities and urban civilization DBoon Apr 2021 #36
A good chunk of farms in the rural areas are now corporate farms. roamer65 Apr 2021 #42
Where do you live? murielm99 Apr 2021 #61
This message was self-deleted by its author roamer65 Apr 2021 #84
98% of farms are still family-owned. TwilightZone Apr 2021 #83
Never understood the point of these threads... brooklynite Apr 2021 #46
I recently read a book relevant to this topic. PoindexterOglethorpe Apr 2021 #47
The only way to fix it is for mass moving Polybius Apr 2021 #48
That reminds me of the "maps" we saw after the 2004 election. paleotn Apr 2021 #53
Fascinating! BobTheSubgenius Apr 2021 #60
You're welcome! That was my original intention. Buckeye_Democrat Apr 2021 #67
The composition of Congress is what they had to do to get rid... jmowreader Apr 2021 #69
This is true. ShazzieB Apr 2021 #73
Maybe BGBD Apr 2021 #85

JanMichael

(24,872 posts)
2. Another good illustration as to why the senate shouldn't exist as well as the EC.
Sat Apr 17, 2021, 08:08 AM
Apr 2021

This country is not even remotely representational in its political power structure.

Buckeye_Democrat

(14,852 posts)
8. It's ridiculous.
Sat Apr 17, 2021, 08:38 AM
Apr 2021

There's seven states in the NW USA with 14 senators, and their total population is about the same as NYC... which has only 2 senators representing all of NY State.

Buckeyeblue

(5,499 posts)
23. Yes, I don't believe the writers of the constitution anticipated the country's expansion
Sat Apr 17, 2021, 10:07 AM
Apr 2021

And they certainly didn't think about the disparity among the population of states. Honestly, the Senate (and electoral college) have held this country back. It has really allowed the voice of the ignorant a seat (many sears) at the table.

And the problem is that the constitution is virtually impossible to change. 27 amendments (really 17 as the first 10 were immediate) in 230 years seems awfully low considering the way the world has changed.

Zeitghost

(3,844 posts)
32. I'm no so sure
Sat Apr 17, 2021, 11:09 AM
Apr 2021

At that time, Virginia was far more populous (roughly 20X larger) tha GA. The Constitution was never meant to provide equal representation of people outside the House of Representatives. Our founders were wise enough to know that rule by a simple majority can cause chaos as the pendulum of political power swings back and forth. Real change takes time and compromise in our system, this can be frustrating in the short term, but it's a feature not a bug.

wnylib

(21,312 posts)
66. I agree. The Senate and House are
Sat Apr 17, 2021, 10:31 PM
Apr 2021

meant to balance each other with equal numbers in one chamber and population representational numbers in the other chamber. I see nothing wrong with this.

The problem that bothers me is the jerry mandering of House districts.

forthemiddle

(1,375 posts)
38. The Senate was never meant to represent people!
Sat Apr 17, 2021, 11:42 AM
Apr 2021

The reason we have two Senators per state, regardless of its size, is because Senators were meant to represent States interests, and not the individual.
Remember that when the Constitution was written, Virginia was 20 times the size of Georgia, yet they both States had 2 Senators.

People forget the we are the United STATES of America, not the United PEOPLE of America.

roamer65

(36,744 posts)
44. We have the power to change our government.
Sat Apr 17, 2021, 12:11 PM
Apr 2021

The power rests with the people.

It is high time for a major change in our form of government.

Remember what John Kennedy said, “Those who make peaceful change impossible, make violent revolution inevitable.”

The Repukes are playing with dynamite.

Response to forthemiddle (Reply #38)

DownriverDem

(6,226 posts)
26. All for getting rid
Sat Apr 17, 2021, 10:26 AM
Apr 2021

of the EC, but not so sure about the Senate. "According to Article I, Section 3 of the Constitution, “The Senate of the United States shall be composed of two Senators from each state, chosen by the legislature thereof for six Years.” The framers believed that in electing senators, state legislatures would cement their ties with the national government." Of course the Senators are now elected by the citizens of each state.

DSandra

(999 posts)
45. And they know this, which is why Republicans are so paranoid
Sat Apr 17, 2021, 12:13 PM
Apr 2021

It’s like the slave masters of the South.

Amishman

(5,553 posts)
51. It's a good illustration of why the founding fathers set it up the way they did
Sat Apr 17, 2021, 01:27 PM
Apr 2021

They wanted state/regional representation to have power too. The different apportionment methodology between the house and senate ensured that a both population and geographic consensus was needed for major political action.

At the same time, they never envisioned a federal government as powerful and involved in the daily operation of the country. The model we have does not work well with the modern scope of federal services; we need an active and agile governing body to keep up with the reach and complexity of our government.

I see two options; accept that political / geographic minorities will be silenced by changing senate allocations, or drop many key powers and services back down to the state level. I believe the latter is the only viable option due to the unrest the former would cause.

Calista241

(5,585 posts)
63. The Senate is there to represent the state's interest.
Sat Apr 17, 2021, 08:51 PM
Apr 2021

Representing the people is what the House of Representatives is for.

Senators weren’t even elected until 1914 and the passage of the 17th Amendment. From 1797 until 1913, Senators were appointed by state legislators.

Might as well start getting rid of states if we want to make things more equitable. While we’re about that, the county system needs revision. There are too many counties in each state, and too much local government that often causes more problems than they solve. Advances in technology, travel, and communication means govt should become more efficient at the state level.

cstanleytech

(26,224 posts)
75. I dont mind having some form of Senate but the current one is unworkable and we need some other tie
Sun Apr 18, 2021, 02:51 AM
Apr 2021

breaker other than the VP or anyone that is beholden to the Executive branch.
I think one way might be to give any Senator a second vote to break a tie but the Senator that chooses to do so is automatically removed from office and can never hold another elected federal position.

druidity33

(6,444 posts)
3. 1 in every 38 people...
Sat Apr 17, 2021, 08:11 AM
Apr 2021

in the US resides in NYC. That statistic seemed unbelievable to me. Turns out it's true (Closer to 1 in 40 i think, but still...wow)

K&R



Buckeye_Democrat

(14,852 posts)
7. I was very surprised too.
Sat Apr 17, 2021, 08:25 AM
Apr 2021

I never bothered to do the math, obviously.

I can't recall when I ever received mail or a package from NYC over my entire life, so it never struck me as that significant.

Bengus81

(6,927 posts)
22. I buy tech stuff from B&H in NYC all the time. LOVE that Company!!
Sat Apr 17, 2021, 09:50 AM
Apr 2021

Great prices and great service............

Buckeye_Democrat

(14,852 posts)
25. I just Google-searched that company.
Sat Apr 17, 2021, 10:25 AM
Apr 2021

I'll consider ordering something from them if I need some electronics or cameras.

Maybe I received something in the mail from NYC many years ago, but I don't remember it. Not even investment/banking stuff.

IrishAfricanAmerican

(3,813 posts)
30. Yes, they're great!
Sat Apr 17, 2021, 10:42 AM
Apr 2021

I remember going to an actual store location with my dad back in the 60s, (we lived upstate.) I was mesmerized by all of the miniature transistor devices back then.

I still check their site first when ordering any electronic equipment. Many times the best deal is found there.

Bengus81

(6,927 posts)
31. Yup...looking to replace an aging Canon MB2720 printer
Sat Apr 17, 2021, 11:05 AM
Apr 2021

$179 on B&H
$288 on Amazon where all the dummies think the absolute LOWEST prices are.

I think those 3rd party sellers just buy from B&H or other places and then hope to hook a few fools on Amazon.

They even sent out an email before the year was out warning customers that they had to start charging sales tax to all States starting Jan 1st.

50. Live down the (long) block from them!
Sat Apr 17, 2021, 12:52 PM
Apr 2021

Their store pickup is fantastic…..order just about anything online, and 15 minutes later get an email saying it’s ready to pick up. I feel very lucky to have them so close by. Now if a Micro Center opened up nearby, I would be in total heaven.

SeattleVet

(5,477 posts)
62. They were my local photo shop when I lived in NYC.
Sat Apr 17, 2021, 08:33 PM
Apr 2021

I'd take orders for film from others in my office and make a run up to their shop for that and any darkroom supplies I needed. Never knew who you'd run into there - they were the 'go-to' place for all of the big-name photographers in NY, and you'd often be waiting in line behind a world-renowned artist or photojournalist. Great people to do business with - as long as you didn't need something on a Saturday.

Yavin4

(35,420 posts)
39. There's a simple explanation. There's work in NYC. A lot of it.
Sat Apr 17, 2021, 11:44 AM
Apr 2021

For a lot of other places in America, there may be only a few major employers. In NYC, there are a lot of employers. One can always get a job here.

The bigger challenge is housing.

Withywindle

(9,988 posts)
77. People think "big cities" are hotbeds of crime
Sun Apr 18, 2021, 04:10 AM
Apr 2021

And this is frankly a right-wing talking point.

But if you look at the list of the 10 biggest cities in the US, and the 10 most high-crime cities in the US, there is no overlap. There's no city that's on both lists.


Chicago gets a bad rap, but it's not even the most dangerous city in ILLINOIS.

Response to Withywindle (Reply #77)

Withywindle

(9,988 posts)
76. If Brooklyn was still a separate city
Sun Apr 18, 2021, 04:07 AM
Apr 2021

It would be the fourth largest city in the US. It's bigger than Houston and almost as big as Chicago. And that's only one of 5 boroughs.

Buckeye_Democrat

(14,852 posts)
79. If only my distant ancestors had not sold...
Sun Apr 18, 2021, 04:18 AM
Apr 2021

... their land on Long Island, the value of it today would be staggering!

UpInArms

(51,279 posts)
4. The interactive map is at
Sat Apr 17, 2021, 08:15 AM
Apr 2021

This link

http://www.slate.com/articles/life/culturebox/2014/10/population_map_use_our_interactive_map_to_figure_out_how_many_flyover_states.html?via=gdpr-consent

It is interesting ... you can only use the few examples they have, but you can put them in any part of the country ... for example, Wyoming is equivalent to 4 counties in iowa, if you put it where Des Moines is located ...

RicROC

(1,203 posts)
19. NoDak vs. Rochester NY
Sat Apr 17, 2021, 09:35 AM
Apr 2021

There are more people living in the metropolitan area of Rochester NY than in the entire state of North Dakota. There are so many other cities which could state the same.

Yet my Trumpy friends would feel that the land mass of NoDak is larger than Rochester so therefore, they should have more representation in Congress.*sarcasm*

modrepub

(3,488 posts)
11. Population Density Is Directly Proportional
Sat Apr 17, 2021, 08:47 AM
Apr 2021

to economic activity (for the most part). Money just flows more quickly in densely populated areas. Salaries are generally higher, shop density is higher and property is generally more expensive (thus property taxes and sales commissions are higher).

All this means tax revenue generation is probably much higher in densely populated areas when compared to rural areas. In my mind that's very important to the current federal and state government structure. As long as rural areas have equal or greater representation than the urban/suburban areas at the federal and state levels, then they can (and they do) direct more tax revenue to their areas which is out of proportion to what they contribute.

This is the real story behind all this. The pilfering of tax revenue from urban and suburban areas to rural areas. Democrats need to limit this type of tax revenue transfer. Cementing the suburban/urban coalition is important if Democrats are going to be able to counter the Republicans. Making this tax revenue transfer more known will keep this coalition together.

Yavin4

(35,420 posts)
40. I posted a video about your post.
Sat Apr 17, 2021, 11:54 AM
Apr 2021

These suburban/rural areas cannot sustain themselves with their tax base. The infrastructure supporting them has to be replaced entirely after 20 years or so, and there's not enough tax revenue to do it.


https://www.democraticunderground.com/1017652162

Crowman2009

(2,490 posts)
14. On a smaller scale, the three counties consisting of Metro-Detroit are 38% of Michigan's population.
Sat Apr 17, 2021, 08:57 AM
Apr 2021

There is also more people in the city of Detroit than the entire Upper Peninsula.

DownriverDem

(6,226 posts)
27. So true
Sat Apr 17, 2021, 10:29 AM
Apr 2021

That is why we always have to wait for the Metro Detroit votes to come in to determine elections.

roamer65

(36,744 posts)
37. Nearly half of Michiganders reside in Wayne, Washtenaw, Oakland and Macomb counties.
Sat Apr 17, 2021, 11:41 AM
Apr 2021

The population in these counties continues to grow, while in rural areas it is declining rapidly.

I see the stark difference since I reside in both areas now.

Kaleva

(36,240 posts)
57. Trump got more votes in Wayne County then he did in all of Upper Michigan
Sat Apr 17, 2021, 07:01 PM
Apr 2021

Trump got over 60% of the vote in my home county in 2020 but that comes out to just 1/100th of the vote he got in Wayne County.

Lonestarblue

(9,958 posts)
15. Uninhabited land has more political power in the US than people.
Sat Apr 17, 2021, 09:09 AM
Apr 2021

I doubt we’ll ever be able to change the structure of the Senate, but it’s obvious that conservative rural voters, though just a minority, hold most of the power and many of them support white nationalism. While they complain about minorities and immigrants changing THEIR culture (as if it should be the only culture in the US), many of them may never have met a black or brown person. So people they’ve never met or who are not living in their communities are somehow forcing them to live differently. Meanwhile, lack of opportunity is forcing their children to move to large cities for school or work where they meet minorities, and at least some of them discover that they’re decent people and not someone to be hated. That’s our future hope for change.

FakeNoose

(32,556 posts)
17. Before Covid changed our whole commuting/working situation
Sat Apr 17, 2021, 09:12 AM
Apr 2021

... it could be said that New York City - specifically Manhattan - population DOUBLED every day during business hours. This was simply because commuters came into New York from outlying counties in New Jersey, New York, Long Island and Connecticut.

That statistic boggles my mind! However so many people are working "from home" now that I'm sure the numbers have gone down quite a bit. Another reality is that some corporate headquarters have moved out of the Big Apple in the last several years, and jobs have migrated along with them.

BumRushDaShow

(128,377 posts)
20. This is why a bunch of us have this in the sig
Sat Apr 17, 2021, 09:36 AM
Apr 2021


The bullshit maps that show all these "red swaths" of counties in states as if they somehow accurately reflect the party affiliation by population, weighting rural areas as equal to densely populated urban areas, is a case in point of the propaganda that continues to proliferate.

I know in the recent past, they would try to illustrate this with cartograms - for example for this past election (below as of 11/27/20 that were updated eventually) -



============

(first map = conventional, all as of 11/16/20 count)



Ref: https://worldmapper.org/us-presidential-election-2020/

BumRushDaShow

(128,377 posts)
80. The visualizations are supposed to be showing "vote share" vs actual final electoral outcome
Sun Apr 18, 2021, 05:30 AM
Apr 2021

From the source - https://worldmapper.org/us-presidential-election-2020/

The comparison of the electoral outcome in a normal map and an equal-population projection shows, how Biden’s vote dominates the spatial distribution of the votes in the most densely populated areas that stand out in the cartogram. Almost all large urban centres, including quite a few in the mid-west, show a majority of votes for Biden. Trump’s vote share was highest in the rural areas, while his former strong showing in some urban areas and especially suburban belts around the cities that he could win over in the 2016 election largely vanished.


KY actually has more registered Democrats than Republicans - https://www.courier-journal.com/story/news/politics/elections/kentucky/2020/02/19/kentucky-elections-2020-state-has-record-number-registered-voters/4804937002/

Kentucky had 3,462,152 registered voters as of Jan. 31, according to Adams.

Democrats have a registration advantage over Republicans in Kentucky, according to the secretary of state, with 1,678,538 registered Democrats representing just over 48% of the electorate.

The 1,477,985 registered Republicans represent nearly 43% of voters, Adams said, and about 9% of voters are listed under other political affiliations.


The "problem" with KY is getting the Democrats to actually vote (they need a door-to-door canvassing like was done in GA).

Bottom line is that those visualizations are showing an "alternate view" of the electorate by comparing "urban" (concentrated) vs "rural" (spread out). The issue being to torpedo the bullshit showing a whole state as "deep red" based on their statewide electoral count or based on the circumstance that their governor and legislatures are GOP as if the state itself was ALSO unanimously GOP, feeding into the "deep red" GOP-superiority narrative. The outcomes of the states of GA and AZ illustrates how that narrative is skewed.

Captain Zero

(6,780 posts)
21. Wyoming almost exactly equal to Indianapolis (Marion County)
Sat Apr 17, 2021, 09:45 AM
Apr 2021

Wyoming has 1 Congressperson and 2 Senators.

Indianapolis has 1 Congressperson,
though they constantly try to gerrymander this away, and 0 Senators.

3825-87867

(836 posts)
24. Modify the ERA?
Sat Apr 17, 2021, 10:12 AM
Apr 2021

we just need equal representation for people regardless of locale (wasn't that the original intent of the revolution). And an amendment to change representation in the Senate is LONG overdue! That's where the "fathers" screwed up - not thinking about the future - like more people or not including assault or automatic weapons in that "god damned piece of paper"*

The ERA needs re-introduced - but with the provision to revamp the Senate! Equal Rights for ALL people.

I hear Republican heads exploding now.

* GWB

Kaleva

(36,240 posts)
34. Most of the votes Trump got in Michigan came from urban areas.
Sat Apr 17, 2021, 11:17 AM
Apr 2021

Trump got more votes in Wayne county (Detroit) then he did in all 15 counties of Upper Michigan combined

Elessar Zappa

(13,896 posts)
52. That's not really a valid statistic.
Sat Apr 17, 2021, 01:45 PM
Apr 2021

Of course urban areas will have more total votes for either candidate because they have all the people. What matters is the percentage of Trump and Biden voters in each county. Urban areas blow rural areas away in proportional support of Biden. And Trump wins the vast majority of rural districts.

Kaleva

(36,240 posts)
55. Trump would have gotten smoked in '16 and '20 w/o the support he got from the urban areas
Sat Apr 17, 2021, 06:24 PM
Apr 2021

Your comment:

"What matters is the percentage of Trump and Biden voters in each county."

What matters is the percentage and turnout in the urban counties. Hillary underperformed in MI in the urban counties compared to Obama and Biden bounced back

Trump got over 60% of the vote in my home county in the 2020 election but that equates to only 1/100th of the vote he got in Wayne County.

when I said earlier that Trump got more votes from Wayne County then he did in all of Upper Michigan combined, I should have said he got more votes there then in did in all of Upper Michigan and much of Northern lower Michigan combined,

Kaleva

(36,240 posts)
74. I'm talking "landslide, election called that night" smoked.
Sun Apr 18, 2021, 01:52 AM
Apr 2021

Someday when I have time to kill, I'm going to compare the total votes Trump got in the counties classified as urban in Michigan compared to the total votes he got in the counties that are classified as rural.

Yavin4

(35,420 posts)
41. Liberals like to live where there are better employment opportunities
Sat Apr 17, 2021, 11:55 AM
Apr 2021

And that's in the big cities.

Crowman2009

(2,490 posts)
64. This is just me, but I would go nuts if there wasn't a coffee shop, pizza place or a bookstore...
Sat Apr 17, 2021, 09:16 PM
Apr 2021

...within a 10 mile radius.

Buckeye_Democrat

(14,852 posts)
70. I'm liberal, but I don't like congested areas.
Sat Apr 17, 2021, 11:57 PM
Apr 2021

People can behave very impersonal in big cities, in my experience. Like everyone is just a cog in the machine.

There was a study published years ago about the greater feeling of loneliness among people living in places like Los Angeles compared to most parts of the country, for example.

That's better than regularly dealing with people who demonstrate animosity, though! Unfortunately, that seems to more frequently happen in less populated areas where someone might "stand out" compared to their norms.

Not always, though. I grew up in a decent-sized suburb which had lots of people nit-picking and criticizing others over the dumbest stuff, but the people from my parents' smaller farming community were far more friendly and accepting. I remember visiting that area with my parents as a kid, wondering what kind of "trick" those people were trying to pull on me when offering me various favors, but I learned they were just genuinely nice!

Edit: Different communities seem to have their own general traits, I guess, like different workplaces.

Volaris

(10,266 posts)
29. The Senate has forgotten its original purpose...
Sat Apr 17, 2021, 10:39 AM
Apr 2021

2 reps from each state to represent the interest of the institution of that state government and its bureaucracy to the federal government. Each State Equal to the other in the eyes of the Law.

I'm not a fan of the Cornhusker Kickback, but I'll give that fucker credit for knowing what his actual constitutional job was.

I bring this up for the following reason:
Imagine, if you will, a Senate that understood this. A senator from fuck-all Kansas would inherently understand the advantage of raising the taxes of rich wall street and hollywood peeps, for the sake of having his own farmers' highways paid for. Imagine, if you will, a Senator from Michigan who understood that federal money to build, oh, let's say, a salt water fishery along lake superior would naturally allow his own people to compete with deep sea guys on the east coast, thereby generating revenue that would otherwise, ONLY go elsewhere. If the feds offer to pick up the tab for any states medicare bill, the senators that DONT want that for themselves are not only idiots, they're fundamentally not understanding their own job descriptions...AS ORIGINALISTS.

Yeah, I'll let that sit there for a second for ya.

The Senate was conceived as a way to ensure that the people who might not have the economic or political advantage of 'city life' not get fucked over for the sake of naturally low population density, and that's not a bad thing I think. But when that need of the low population density, devolves itself into culture war, conspiracy theories, and cut taxes on everyone, that's a problem.

Perhaps, the solution is to expand the number of house reps to 500, or even a thousand, and to propose an amendment that any senator that originates a bill, MUST FIRST have that bill approved by either the State Legislature they represent, or voted OK by the state population. Josh Hawley wants to fuck over major league baseball for the sake of political points? He should have to have gotten permission from the populations of St Louis and Kansas City before he talks to the Federal Government about such nonsense, is all I'm sayin.



Yavin4

(35,420 posts)
43. Republicans have nationalized their agenda.
Sat Apr 17, 2021, 12:11 PM
Apr 2021

As you state, each senator should represent the interests of their states. Instead, Republican elected officials both in DC and in their states represent the interests of their donors and their party activists. This is why we're seeing ballot measures on the min. wage and expansion of the ACA. The people have to take power into their own hands.

Local media (newspapers, radio, TV stations) has also become nationalized. People watch Fox news more than their own local stories. Thus, cultural war news hits them harder and more often than news about a salt water fishery along lake superior.

DBoon

(22,338 posts)
36. You get rid of cities and urban civilization
Sat Apr 17, 2021, 11:37 AM
Apr 2021

Then the food growing areas become a subsistence peasantry.

Without the trade networks, manufacturing, financial systems and innovation driven by urban universities, your typical farmer in the US would live at the level of a 3rd world peasant.

In short their life would really suck.

The last time urban civilization collapsed in Western Europe, it was called the Dark Ages.

roamer65

(36,744 posts)
42. A good chunk of farms in the rural areas are now corporate farms.
Sat Apr 17, 2021, 12:00 PM
Apr 2021

They are corporate entities who make their living off from supplying the urban areas.

I see it in the rural area of MI I frequent.

murielm99

(30,712 posts)
61. Where do you live?
Sat Apr 17, 2021, 07:54 PM
Apr 2021

This is bullshit. More than 90% of all farms are family owned. Many farms incorporate. They are still family farms.

P.S. We are farm owners. We have retired from farming actively, since we are in our seventies.

Response to murielm99 (Reply #61)

TwilightZone

(25,426 posts)
83. 98% of farms are still family-owned.
Sun Apr 18, 2021, 07:47 AM
Apr 2021

They're responsible for the vast majority of production.

"Family farms (where the majority of the business is owned by the operator and individuals related to the operator) of various types together accounted for nearly 98 percent of U.S. farms in 2019."

https://www.ers.usda.gov/data-products/ag-and-food-statistics-charting-the-essentials/farming-and-farm-income/

brooklynite

(94,302 posts)
46. Never understood the point of these threads...
Sat Apr 17, 2021, 12:28 PM
Apr 2021

Nobody here needs to be convinced of the inequalities of our political system. You need to convince people who benefit from that inequality to change it.

PoindexterOglethorpe

(25,811 posts)
47. I recently read a book relevant to this topic.
Sat Apr 17, 2021, 12:34 PM
Apr 2021
Miles From Nowhere by Dayton Duncan. In it, he travels through many of the counties which have fewer than 2 people per square mile. It did come out in 1993, so some of it is dated, but most of those underpopulated counties are still losing population.

Polybius

(15,331 posts)
48. The only way to fix it is for mass moving
Sat Apr 17, 2021, 12:43 PM
Apr 2021

But 30 million people won't do it. Heck, even 5 million would make a difference.

paleotn

(17,876 posts)
53. That reminds me of the "maps" we saw after the 2004 election.
Sat Apr 17, 2021, 02:05 PM
Apr 2021

And my response....counties don't fucking vote. Square miles don't fucking vote. People fucking vote.

BobTheSubgenius

(11,558 posts)
60. Fascinating!
Sat Apr 17, 2021, 07:44 PM
Apr 2021

I just LOVE little expositions like this (although I bet the effort to produce it wasn't little) and I thank you for posting it!

Buckeye_Democrat

(14,852 posts)
67. You're welcome! That was my original intention.
Sat Apr 17, 2021, 10:44 PM
Apr 2021

I was mostly amazed by the concentration of people in NYC (and some other places) compared to other parts of this country, with visualizations to demonstrate it.

Government representation and other corollaries later came up, and I rolled with them.

NYC isn't nearly as densely populated as other cities around the world too!

jmowreader

(50,528 posts)
69. The composition of Congress is what they had to do to get rid...
Sat Apr 17, 2021, 11:47 PM
Apr 2021

...of the Articles of Confederation.

During the Constitutional Convention there were small states, which wanted equal representation in Congress, and large states, who wanted proportional representation. To make everyone happy, Congress was made bicameral, with proportional representation in the lower house and equal representation in the upper.

ShazzieB

(16,265 posts)
73. This is true.
Sun Apr 18, 2021, 01:31 AM
Apr 2021

It's easy for us to forget that those guys (the founders) not only invented anentire governmental system almost from scratch, but they had to come up with something that at least 9 of the 13 solonies/states would be willing to ratify. It was a lot more complicated than I think most of us realize.

 

BGBD

(3,282 posts)
85. Maybe
Mon Apr 19, 2021, 01:55 AM
Apr 2021

we should stop smashing ourselves together in these small areas????

What would it take to flip Idaho, Wyoming, and Utah? A couple million people to leave California and settle there? Given the growth of remote working, many people can live anywhere and still work in the same job. WV just announced a program to offer people $12,000 to move there. Trump won 70% of the vote there in 2020, and only actually won by about 300k. How many Marylanders could move into the eastern panhandle or toward Morgantown and flip that state while still easily winning MD? We won Illinois by close to a million votes and lost Iowa by like 150k.

We're not going to change the electoral college or how power in congress is decided in 100 years of trying. It would be better to figure out how to win under the system we already have.

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