Is this still a thing?

[bigtree]

The End Justifies the Memes @Upsidasium
You don't hear much about the "well-regulated" part of the 2nd Amendment these days. Probably just an oversight.

[abqtommy]

1. Not an oversight at all. Used to justify violence and treason.

[malaise]

8. I have come to the same conclusion

The goons are well armed for a coup

[malaise]

9. I have come to the same conclusion

The goons are well armed for a coup

[Hoyt]

2. Cracks me up to hear gunners twist themselves into a pretzel to rationalize that phrase.

Ignorant gun-rubes become a grammar expert all the sudden.

[DURHAM D]

3. Isn't that the National Guard? nt

[pandr32]

10. It is.

Read Article 1; Section 8 of the Constitution of the U.S. It is spelled out plainly.

[SYFROYH]

4. I don't think the government has called up the unorganized militia in a while.

I’m ok with spending on tax money on some target practice and drills.

[pandr32]

11. You forgot the former guy's government

He was all about that.

[gratuitous]

14. I'd prefer those who want to be in an organized militia foot the bill

For starters, annual membership payments, minimum four figures. A requirement for continuing firearm education (lawyers in my state have to have 45 hours every three years, including six hours ethics; sounds good). Duty for two weeks a year per firearm owned.

[Timewas]

5. From history articles

That I have read over the years "Well Regulated" meant well trained and organized, not well controlled.

Showing results for english meaning of well regulated in 1700s

"Well-regulated in the 18th century tended to be something like well-organized, well-armed, well-disciplined," says Rakove. "It didn't mean 'regulation' in the sense that we use it now, in that it's not about the regulatory state. There's been nuance there. It means the militia was in an effective shape to fight."

A lot of words at that time are still in use today with different meanings or usage.

[CrispyQ]

6. Well-disciplined is what a lot of them are missing. -nt

[Mr.Bill]

13. I've read about that also and I agree.

But the current gun nuts don't meet the 17th century definition either.

[Timewas]

19. Militia definition

In 18th century:

By militia, Madison obviously meant every able-bodied man capable of bearing arms. This, undoubtedly, was also the meaning of "militia" when the Second Amendment was written. Across the nation, Federalists echoed our Founding Fathers' insistence that the right to keep and bear arms become part of the Constitution.

This was pretty much my understanding of who was a member: Every able bodied man who actually owned a rifle.

[Mr.Bill]

22. Correct. But that was a time not far removed

from when they actually won the the revolutionary war with basically those kind of people. It wouldn't go that way today. We are waging a war with cyber terrosists and the like.

[KPN]

26. Context, context, context. Would you please stop bringing up

pesky details Mr Bill?!

[Timewas]

30. Absolutely

The entire amendment needs to be rewritten to bring it into the modern day, but that most likely won't happen even if dems gain complete control of both houses and potus .. Never get enough states to agree... Hell they can't even get an equal rights passed.

[William Seger]

27. I don't think there's anything to be gained by trying to parse the words, anyway

I think the Founders meant something pretty close to the way gunners interpret it: that people needed to be able to own guns in case there was ever a need to call up a militia, because they weren't planning on having a standing army. But they were also wise enough to know that what they wrote might not stand up for centuries, so they provided a way to amend the Constitution. And that's exactly what needs to be done with the 2nd Amendment if we're ever going to be able to call ourselves a civilized society. There aren't any rights that are absolute when they bump up against the rights of others, and certainly not when they infringe on the rights of society as a whole to be safe. That's a fundamental purpose of government.

[Claire Oh Nette]

7. NOtice what's not mentioned

castle defense, stand your ground, or word one about defending my family.

Until another poster said he'd not rest until all handguns were banned, I'd been focused on military armaments in civilian settings.

Home defense? Shotgun. I wouldn't have to be accurate.
Handguns kill far more than the AR and AKs do. Do people hunt with handguns?

Our well regulated militia is the National Guard. You want to hunt, fine, hunting rifles, or bow and arrow. You want to shoot for fun? Check your guns out from the local range where you store them.

It's the guns, stupids.

[pandr32]

12. + a gazillion

[SYFROYH]

15. Organized versus unorganized is defined by law.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Militia_(United_States)

Today, as defined by the Militia Act of 1903, the term "militia" is used to describe two classes within the United States:[8]

Organized militia – consisting of State Defense Forces, the National Guard and Naval Militia.[9][10]
Unorganized militia – comprising the reserve militia: every able-bodied man of at least 17 and under 45 years of age, not a member of the State Defense Forces, National Guard, or Naval Militia.[11]

[multigraincracker]

24. It says, not a word about "self defense".

That has to be a state issue and not a national one.

[Towlie]

16. The gun nuts treat it like that child's joke about pancakes, a doghouse, and ice cream.

 
?

The punchline is that it takes a certain number of pancakes to cover a doghouse because ice cream doesn't have bones.

The Second Amendment says "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

They treat this like two independent, unrelated clauses that have no more relation to each other than the two parts of that silly joke, but we know better. The Founding Fathers definitely meant something specifically relating to a well-regulated militia, and the whole amendment might not actually be in effect if the first part represents a required condition under which the second part takes effect.

In other words, it seems a well-regulated Militia is apparently NOT necessary to the security of a free State in these modern times, since no state actually has one, so the remainder of the amendment should be ignored.

[doc03]

17. I think the meaning of Well Regulated back in those days may have meant well trained, disciplined

and equipped. But all they had back then were single shot flintlocks not semi-autos with
150 round magazines.

[world wide wally]

18. You would at least think "well regulated" means that they are accountable to a higher authority

on a "regular" basis.

[CaptainTruth]

20. The original meaning...

From constitutioncenter.org:

"Well-regulated in the 18th century tended to be something like well-organized, well-armed, well-disciplined," says Rakove. "It didn't mean 'regulation' in the sense that we use it now, in that it's not about the regulatory state. There's been nuance there. It means the militia was in an effective shape to fight."

Even given the original meaning, none of the gun nuts we see today are "well-disciplined," that would imply they are in control of themselves, in control of their emotions & behavior (so no violent shooting rampages). They clearly are not.

[stopdiggin]

21. Mmmmm? Unless the Supreme Court

reverses itself (DC vs Heller) the 2nd pretty clearly means 'private' ownership in their view. So -- that argument might have carried weight prior to 2008 -- but, for all practical intents and purposes, that horse has left the stables.

Note: the court also specifically left open all manner of regulation that the state might chose to impose ....

[WinstonSmith4740]

23. The NRA cut out that part.

Literally carved in stone outside of their headquarters is "..., the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."
https://www.motherjones.com/politics/1994/01/seconds-missing-half/

[multigraincracker]

25. As I read the 2nd Amendment, I don't see one word about

guns. Not pistols or rifles, it says arms. Some say it means regular issued personal weapons. But wouldn't that include knifes, bayonets, brass knuckles, pepper spray, hand grenades and swords and foils. All of those are highly regulated and not a word from the NRA or bubba gun nuts.

[billh58]

28. If North Korea used the

same arguments as the right-wing gun lobby, they should be allowed to develop and have nuclear weapons "for protection."

Funny how the NRA and its followers fully support "Arms Control" for other countries, but foam at the mouth when it's called "gun control" for Americans.

A side effect of the loose restrictions on purchasing guns in the USA, is that illegal guns are showing up in foreign countries that were manufactured and first sold in the USA. Straw purchases and illegal arms transactions in this country are very real, and very easy to arrange, and are very profitable (for the buyers, the sellers, and the manufacturers).

[msfiddlestix]

29. can't remember who it was that said, The Police are the "well regulated Militias"

That is the essential equivalent that we need to remember to rebut the bs.

I think we here would definitely quibble mightily with regard to how well "regulated" our police and other law enforcement agencies are, but leaving that fact aside for this discussion... it's damn long past time we and our elected reps point this fact out.

ymmv of course.