No, we're not going to have a civil war. Not one that lasts more than a day.

[politruk]

When the Southern states seceded from the Union, they were still states -- organized, functioning political entities with taxing authority, in a position to form and fund a real army, with real professional officers and hundreds of thousands of enlisted men -- an army capable of putting up a credible fight against the United States Army for four years.

But the present political divide in America is not between states, it is within states -- between traditionalist rural areas and cosmopolitan urban areas. You can't make a civil war out of that, only a culture war in the suburbs and exurbs. If every private militia club in the United States were to gather in one place and join forces under a unified command, they would not last 15 minutes against any state's National Guard. Considering how much military equipment (and, presumably, training) local police departments have been acquiring in the past decade, they probably could not even put up a fight against the local police or sheriff's department.

So, what's all this talk of civil war? What does anybody think can actually happen, that would amount to one?

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

1. Thank you.

I am myself rather weary of the "OMG! There's going to be a Civil War" any day now.

People of various stripes have been predicting this for decades. Heck, if I recall correctly, Charles Manson was certain the murders he orchestrated would start a race war.

[politruk]

8. Ah, the "Helter-Skelter" scenario . . .

The race war was to wipe out all whites except Manson's Family, who would hide out in Death Valley. Then the blacks would find themselves incapable of self-government, and fall in behind Manson when he emerged.

In other words, Manson assumed the blacks were (1) capable of winning a genocidal race war against the much more numerous and better-organized whites, but also (2) so inferior, and so conscious of their inferiority, that they would naturally follow a white leader.

Well, he was crazy, whaddaya want.

[uponit7771]

49. So 1/6 didn't happen? thx in advance

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

50. Where exactly did I say that?

January 6 was NOT a Civil War. Although I suppose a Six Hour War is possible, sort of like the Six Days War.

But when people are talking about another Civil War, it's pretty clear they are picturing something more or less like the one a century and a half ago. And that's simply not going to happen.

[uponit7771]

53. "..People of various stripes have been predicting this for decades.." intimating the bad stuff

... of 1/6 didn't happen and the "thank you" in the response.

I'm thinking 1/6 is the start of the civil war, not just a one off thing ...

If its not the start of the civil war what should it be?

thx in advance

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

56. Somehow I don't see "..People of various stripes have been predicting this for decades."

being remotely the same as intimating the bad stuff of 1/6 didn't happen. We can just leave it as I don't think the events of that day were the start of a current civil war and you apparently do.

[uponit7771]

57. Yeah, I mean ... 1/6 doesn't happen every millennium right?

[Ocelot II]

2. Whatever happens, if anything does, might be more like Northern Ireland

from the '60s to the '90s. Which would also suck.

[Tree Lady]

33. I do worry a bit their side has more weapons

We have some but if a poll was taken I am sure more republicans own guns.

[Hekate]

37. That's what I've been thinking. It's all about inherited, festering grievances, with guns. ...

It appears to be back, too.

Also, we’ve got plenty of that over here to go around.

[bluecollar2]

51. You nailed it...

I lived in London and various other locations between 1968 and 1975...

Grandparents retired in County Roscommon. Other relatives all over the Isles...

Some RAF.. Some Royal Army...

It wasn't pretty.

[TreasonousBastard]

3. The problem is if they recruit enough Guardsmen and local police. Oathkeepers could...

just be the tip.

[TheRealNorth]

24. Exactly

This is the flaw in the OP's argument. They are presuming that that Guard and Police will follow orders. They are also presuming that there won't be governors and other politicians that the police/guard report to that won't join the insurrection.

[brush]

27. And you're assuming they will?

There will be no civil war. There might be OKC incidents here and there...guerilla warfare-type incidents with militia in their pick-up trucks, but massed forces against the Nat'l Guard?

Nah. Not gonna happen. However many wingers are on police forces, they are nowhere near the majority.

Those overweight, middle aged guys in camo carrying AR-15s will be exhausted after a week in the field and will wish to hell they had stayed in basement continuing to imagine "watering the tree of liberty" with blood, as long as it isn't theirs'.

[TheRealNorth]

75. If the governor of a Republican-controlled state revolts....

I think its very likely that the National Guard in and significant portions of the police in that state will follow suit.

Especially if the governor has ensured that loyalists and sycophants are in key positions.

[brush]

77. Seriously? And what are the odds of that happeing?

a million to one, two million? Govenors are not crazy. They are not up for treason. And that would be actual treason, not sedition or an insurrection like Jan. 6.

The punishment for treason is hanging, btw. Grant let Lee off easy.

[TheRealNorth]

100. Depends on whether they think they can win

While its more likely that Republicans will opt to destroying Democratic institutions and free and fair elections (Plan A), if they fail that way, we must be vigilant against Plan B. They were almost successful on 1/6.

[brush]

102. Jan 6 wasn't a state/governor issue. It was federal and...

and it failed. IMO even the most ridiculous republican governors, the ones in Florida, Texas, Georgia, Arizona, are not crazy enough to back a revolt against the federal government.

[TheRealNorth]

103. The righties are rapidly radicalizing

Driven by social media, Faux, OAN, etc. I am seeing it in my extended family.

[brush]

104. Seeing what? I thought the discussion was about state governors...

backing a revolt of their state against the federal government, not some individual wingers foolishly imagining taking up arms against the government.

[TheRealNorth]

106. Let me spell it out...

The governors will do what their base wants.

If the base is ready for the fight, they will revolt if they think they can win. They may think they can win if they know they have people on the inside of the security forces that can assure their support.

This is not about some isolated group of RW wackos, this is about a coordinated effort by multiple states to overthrow the federal government. It is arrogance to suggest that it can't happen here.

[brush]

107. Yeah, right. Keep believing that. We'll wait for your return to reality.

And why are you on this site if those are your beliefs?

[uponit7771]

54. +1, THIS !! A flag officer is the brother of an admitted traitor of America and HANDS DOWN was

... part of slowing down the response to the 1/6 terrorist attack !!

This is 100% of what you're talking about happening on 1/6

This flag officer still is part of the US military, screw that

[Treefrog]

4. Thank you for a sensible post.

[dameatball]

5. More likely to see occasional hits on soft targets, or political ones, than pitched battles.

Infrastructure, such as water sources, utilities, communications, etc, can't all be secure 24/7 all over the country. These jackasses will eventually decide that going to jail over targeting highly secure locations is not as much fun as they thought.

[CrackityJones75]

6. We are already in one.

What do you think these shooting massacres are? Sure some of them are incels but many of them are people wanting to punish liberal ideology.

[politruk]

9. Massacres are massacres.

They happen all the time. Whatever their motivation, they would have to be a lot better coordinated to constitute a war.

[uponit7771]

12. "They happen all the time" not in countries that aren't in some level of insurgency or civil war

... the number of massacres in America is not normal what so ever

[brush]

28. Unfortunately it's normal for us now with our gun culture.

Until that's remedied, it will continue. Nut jobs shooting up grocery stores, massage parlors and packaging facilities do not constitute any coordinated tactic or organized war.

They are what they are, products of a culture awash with guns accessible to crazied one-offers with a grievance who want to take others with them before they go down.

[uponit7771]

42. How is that not whistling past the graveyard? Regardless of whether we've normalized racism

... or low level civil wars or insurgencies etc it is what the definition these things say they are.

We can go through the process of renaming everything but when we look at things in their definition shit is going down.

This is like what happened BEFORE 1/6 when Trump started firing defense personal, there should've been hollering and screaming then ... no people want to say those things are "normal"

No, its time to start hollering and screaming even when the cattle our out of the barnyard

1/6 changed everything for me, we're not the same country any longer seeing there's a good portion of the people who don't believe in what the bill of rights says it wants for Americans.

[brush]

47. Columbine happened in 1999. Sure is taking these civil warriors a long time...

to get it together.

Hogwash.

It's no organized, low-level civil war. It's what we see several times a week. Some deranged, lone gunman with a perceived grievance gets a hold of an assault rifle and starts blasting away at the place he targets.

These shootings are not a part of a whole. They're just another mass shooting in America where there have been 47 already this year, and that doesn't included the hundreds of shootings where there were three or less people killed (like the two three-person shootings yesterday). What they are are separate, unrelated incidents that happen and will continue to happen in a nation flooded with easily accessible guns and republicans unwilling to pass sensible gun laws.

It's no war.

[uponit7771]

48. Don't know what the reference to Columbine means ... that didn't involve flag officers of the US

... military and the president of the united states like 1/6 did.

Your OP started out with "No, we're not going to have a civil war ..." which didn't include massacre shootings by themselves like Columbine (if that was the meaning of the reference) ... maybe not if that was the only factor, its not.

Also

You said "You can't make a civil war out of that, only a culture war in the suburbs and exurbs... " in your OP.

This is text book false, Spain and Syria started out very similar to this historically including Rwanda

[brush]

59. Oh, so you're not including the mass shootings with the Jan. 6...

Last edited Mon Apr 19, 2021, 05:56 PM - Edit history (1)

day-trip outting/insurrgency like many of the other posters on this thread are?

Ok, fair enough. I'm not either. Neither are part of a low-level civil war. Jan. 6 was a field trip/vacation day off from work for magats answering a fool, defeated president's call to help keep him in power. It failed. I don't care if some Proud Boys in orange caps/vest, or Oath Keepers in camo were there keeping in touch with each other by cell phone, it failed and they all went home after celebrating over a good meal and foolishly published selfies of themselves online committing crimes.

Como on. Those were no civil warriors. They were cosplay actors pretending. Where's the follow up attack? Reservoirs, food supply lines, power plants are unguarded for the most part—soft targets, easy pickings. Any serious, organized force would've already done that. And who is their leader now that trump has washed his hands of them except grifting them for more donation money online than they intended.

He's lawyered up and trying to save his ass from going to jail when he's not on the golf course.There's no one else who can get those clowns to come another "mass" cosplay outting.

We're going too far with this. Those out-of-shape, weekend warriors would be exhausted after a week in the field against state troopers, not to mention the Nat'l guard with tanks and helicopers and actual intelligence monitoring them knowing who they are and where they live already.

[uponit7771]

62. "Jan. 6 was field trip/vacation day off from work for magats" Cause 1/6 happens once every 6 ...

... years or something like a "Field Trip"?!

I'm honestly asking, I know enough about US history to know 1/6 has never happened where we've had multiple 9/11's for instance.

[brush]

64. You know as well as I do that many of those people took a...

vacation day from work to be there. It was a day-trip outting for them and they got caught up in the fever from trump and Mo Brooks and Ghouliani and Jr. exhorting them at the rally to march on the Capitol.

Most have learned to regret it. especially the ones who've been apprehended. The Proud Boys and Oath Keepers certainly have not followed up with their promises to come back, or any other follow-up action for that matter. Looks like they've shot their load already, even with all the soft targets out there.

[uponit7771]

66. Yeah, we know that they took off from their 6 figure jobs but my point is 1/6 isn't a once every 50

... year occurrence or 150 year or 260 years the country has been in existence.

Why wouldn't 1/6 be the START of something bad?

[brush]

69. Well they're sure taking their time. Didn't follow up when so many had the fever.

[uponit7771]

70. First major battle of the civil war happened 6 months after the south succeeded. (link)

.. civil wars are varied and wide in deliberation.

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2021/02/capitol-riot-january-6-trauma-terror-attack.html

Sumpter was 2 months after the south succeeded

1/6 was different, that's a fact not in dispute

[Treefrog]

99. The south did NOT succeed. They did however, secede.

[CrackityJones75]

32. And a further follow up...

We are also in a psychological and technical war with a foreign country who is working to foment said civil war.

[uponit7771]

41. +1, true

[CrackityJones75]

30. I disagree

I believe many of them are happening because of the propaganda that is beingnpushed by a political party and its mouthpiece.

[CrackityJones75]

31. Also...

Also did you notice that those same people who were subjected to that propaganda attacked our capital and tried to stop a free and fair democratic election?

There was an insurgency and political leaders of a political ideology had directed it through messaging. We are and have been in a civil war for some time now.

[uponit7771]

45. +1, I think people are whistling past the graveyard like we did when Trump fired the military ...

... officers or some of them quit right before 1/6.

I've seen it before, people don't think it can happen here ... IT CAN

We're damn near text book, " the troubles" and heading towards Spain circa 1930

[CrackityJones75]

88. Agree completely

[Hekate]

38. We are the only country on the planet not in a declared war where this "happens all the time."

Also, have you been actually following the information about the 1-6 Insurrection? It was pretty damn well co-ordinated. It also had all the earmarks of being a dress-rehearsal, equivalent to the 1923 Beer Hall Putsch of the Weimar Republic.

[uponit7771]

43. " It was pretty damn well co-ordinated." 👈🏾 freakin SCARY coordinated too, there was LITTLE ...

... "spontaneous" among the people who are the white supremacist terrorist.

[sarisataka]

52. If it was so well coordinated

Why didn't it succeed? That wasn't the day for a dress rehearsal, it was the big game. Trump is out, their opportunity is gone. It is exponentially harder to put someone in to power than to keep the person who is already there.

[uponit7771]

55. It didn't ?! They terrorized the damn country, they 100% succeeded at that

[sarisataka]

58. The goal of a coup is to seize power

In that it was an absolute failure.

[uponit7771]

61. With that aspect of course, with the aspect of terror the succeeded 100%

[Kaleva]

65. They failed miserably in that. There is no evidence that the nation was "terrorized"

People went along with their normal routines. That isn't the behavior of folks who are "terrorized".

One can tell a lot about how a person feels about an event by observing what they do in response to it. The greater the event poses a threat to that person, the greater and more vigorous the response the person makes. Watching an event on tv and posting about it isn't much of a response.

[uponit7771]

67. No, ... no they didn't. I know tons of people who are scared shitless of those terrorist and their

... sympathizers in congress and on FAUX News.

You're 100% wrong on that one, text book terrorism along with the PTSD from it including members of congress

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2021/02/capitol-riot-january-6-trauma-terror-attack.html

[Kaleva]

73. In what noticeable ways are these "tons of people" behaving differently?

Have they acquired weapons?

Are they actively training with these weapons?

Have they joined up with other like minded citizens to form a defensive unit?

Have they stockpiled food and other necessities?

Have they fortified their residence?

Did they flee the country?

When War of the Worlds was first aired back in the 1930's via radio, some listeners thought it was real and were terrified.

"The radio play was extremely realistic, with Welles employing sophisticated sound effects and his actors doing an excellent job portraying terrified announcers and other characters. An announcer reported that widespread panic had broken out in the vicinity of the landing sites, with thousands desperately trying to flee."

https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/welles-scares-nation

The people responded vigorously to the threat by trying to flee. An act that showed they were truly terrified.

I'd be interested in hearing from you the actions of the people you know who you say were terrified.

Your link is interesting and I may read it in detail later but article is about people directly involved in the riot which is not the same thing as the nation as a whole.

[uponit7771]

74. Ask congress members I linked in my post what they do when they have PTSD because of 1/6 and

... Wells story was fake 1/6 was not.

1/6 was different in history of US no?

let see if we can agree on that

[Kaleva]

78. We agree that the effect on members of Congress has been traumatic

I won't argue with you about that as your evidence is clear.

What we disagree on is if the nation as a whole was terrified by the events of 1/6 and we'll probably never agree on that but that's okay.

I'm not here to convince you and others I am correct. I come here to learn by engaging in these discussions. The article you posted before will make for interesting reading later.

Take care and have a nice evening!

[uponit7771]

80. Never claimed the nation as a whole was traumatized, 1/3rd sympathize with the terrorist and

... is one of the reason why I believe that 1/6 was a start and not the conclusion.

Its text book a START seeing what we can read about in the past.

[Kaleva]

81. I took your comment in post #55 to mean that

" They terrorized the damn country, they 100% succeeded at that"

[uponit7771]

7. Unnnn, Spain and Syria did just that during their civil wars it was urban vs suburban ...

... There's already a text book insurgency forming supported by MAGA Cultist in congress who aren't being put out yet so I don't see why more 1/6 terrorist attacks wont be called a civil war.

[sarisataka]

10. There is more than one way to have a civil war

And as we have seen, asymmetric wars can be pesky things. With no central target to go after it is necessary to break the will of the opponents or turn the overwhelming majority against them.

That said, my crystal ball isn't predicting any such war coming soon.

[Journeyman]

11. To understand the future they envision, look to the Irish "Troubles" . . .

[uponit7771]

13. +1,

[DetroitLegalBeagle]

14. Any possible civil war here would look nothing like the past one

There would be no set front lines or set battlefields. Very little unit vs unit fighting. Sure, no militia would stand a chance against a regular army unit or national guard unit in a one on one fight. But that's not how things would be fought. It would be an insurgency. Ambushes, assassinations, and bombings would be the rule. Anywhere could be a battlefield. The militias might not be able to knock out a tank, or take down that drone, but they can surely hunt down and kill that tank crew or drone pilots families. And depending on how long such an insurgency lasts, that's not even a guarantee. Heavier weapons would eventually make their way into the insurgents hands, either smuggled in from outside powers wishing to add to the chaos, or stolen or given to them from defectors within Federal forces. Add in our rather undefended and faulty electrical grid and we could have real problems. It wouldn't be too difficult for determined individuals to knock out power to a city.

[Voltaire2]

94. exactly.

[0rganism]

15. problem with this analysis is the reliance on sane law enforcement

here are the forces you list to protect us from right-wing insurrectionist death squad militias:
state National Guard
local police department
local sheriff's department

what happens if those organizations are aligned with the insurrectionists? saturated with fascists and bloodthirsty self-styled "patriots"? that is the problem, and apparently it's a real documented problem that we ignore at our peril.

[2naSalit]

16. We're already in one...

We just don't want to call it that yet.

[Kaleva]

18. flame wars on social media really don't count.

[2naSalit]

19. I wasn't referring to that...

We already have a constabulary that perceives the public as the enemy and they act upon that belief with impunity, half the Congress is not performing its duties in good faith and are actively working to overthrow the government from within and a rag tag military of trained ne'er do wells and criminals to attack us along with other tactics of warfare...

So what is it other than a civil war?

It sure looks like one to me from over here in the cheap seats.

[Voltaire2]

90. the people who have still not digested Jan 6 are amazing

I guess it is just too much.

[2naSalit]

93. It could be that...

I speculated, about thirteen months ago, that there would be a massive shift in the entire species regarding philosophy, psychology, and socially, on many levels by the time the whole covid event is under control. This is happening to our entire species all at once, it will have massive impact and really shake up how the human world functions going forward. I transplanted Stephen Jay Gould's Punctuated Equilibrium theory to this event because of the major shift we are experiencing in real time. I wonder how our species manages to survive the next fifty years.

I need more coffee.

[uponit7771]

22. Congressional sympathizers do though

[Blue 808]

60. This... exactly..

THEY have already declared war on We the People, and it's surreal to me that many on our side do not see it..

[SYFROYH]

17. Not to give them too much credit, but the situatoin could be ripe for guerrilla warfare

A la Tim McVeigh or radicalized loners like Dylann Roof.

[2naSalit]

20. I think we're already there.

[former9thward]

21. Well that has been predicted about every war.

"It will be over by Christmas" and all of that. This is not 1861 and a modern civil war in an advanced state would not look like the 1861 version either. Well placed bombs and attacks could easily knock out most electricity to cities. They could easily stop truck traffic to cities starving them of food and supplies. But go ahead and whistle past the graveyard.

[Kaleva]

26. Did you notice that none of the rioters who got arrested later put up a fight?

Not a ingle one. An indication of how little they are willing to sacrifice in fighting for their cause.

[Crunchy Frog]

23. There are different types of civil wars. All you have to do is look at the contemporary world.

That's all I'm going to say.

[Kaleva]

25. the fact so many were turned in by family, friends and co-workers doesn't bode well for them

Another fact is that many of them are out of touch with the real world and thus cannot formulate a strategy that has any chance of success because that strategy would be based on falsehoods.

[brush]

29. Exactly. There are not as many of these militia revolutionaries out there...

as some are imagining. We saw many of them on Jan. 6 having a day trip field day. Then they went to their motels, celebrated over a meal and went home the next day to unload their exploits online.

Seriously?

They had a great day until the FBI knocked on their door.

[Kaleva]

34. They are like Flat Earthers.

[Initech]

35. Oh they talk trash about it, but the Oaf Creepers would never fire a shot.

Why? They have jobs and lives and families like we do. A civil war would end all of that. Even their martial law fantasies would end all of that. They're just keyboard warriors, nothing more.

[Kaleva]

68. Many Freepers talked tough before the the election but didn't follow through afterwards.

[Initech]

72. Yup... same group with a different name.

[Kaleva]

76. They vowed to fight to the death to defend the nation if we Commies attempted to steal the election

They quickly forgot the vow to fight to the death even though they continue to say we stole the election.

[Hekate]

36. What do you propose we call it? "The Troubles"? Terrorism? Terrorists don't want or need government

They simply exist to destroy, kill, and reduce to rubble.

And they are here already.

[Kaleva]

39. If the nation can accept 500,000 COVID19 deaths in a year, almost daily mass shootings,

They are going to have to do a lot in order to get even just media attention.

As far as I know, nobody here armed up on the 6th of January in response to the riot.

[politruk]

40. Well, except maybe for Redneck Revolt.

They're an organization of self-ID'd leftist rednecks, and they're armed.

I suspect/hope/fear we'll be hearing more about them in the future.

[brooklynite]

44. It starts with "all police are racists" and bounces to "the police will join with the militias"

A silly broad-brush stereotype.

[fescuerescue]

46. Thing about civil wars. They don't go as one would imagine they would.

It wouldn't be regular people lining up against the military and national guard. National guard and military is also made up of basically the same people.

It would be factions of the national guard against other factions. Parts of the military against other parts of the military. Civilians groups against other civilians groups. Any every other combination.

It would be a nightmare. Millions would die and it would take a century to recover.

[politruk]

63. I really can't see any scenario

in which the U.S. Armed Forces, including the NG, are so politically divided as to subvert discipline and the chain of command. To use state troops in a civil war requires GENERALS sign on for it, and ours won't.

[uponit7771]

71. A flag officer that IS STILL SERVING was part of slowing the NG response to the attack on capital ..

... building and happens to be the brother of an admitted traitor to the country.

No, I think people are whistling past the grave yard on 1/6.

1/6 was different and never has happened in US history

[kairos12]

82. Agree.

All you need to see is that atrocity of a Confederate Flag being displayed in the Halls of Congress.

Traitors they all are.

The entire Reich Wing was a Trojan horse that culminated with Chump. Inside were Q crazies, anti-vaxers, anti-science, racist, religious zealots, and My Pillow warriors.

[uponit7771]

84. +1, I believe 1/6 is a start too, people want their worlds to be safe so they're minimizing ...

... that the 1/6 assholes are not finished.

Hell, look at the

[fescuerescue]

85. Oh I agree as things are now

That's why I don't think a civil war is a current danger.

But if things decline much much below where we are. Then the circumstances will be vastly different.

[Yavin4]

79. "If every private militia club in the United States were to gather in one place..."

One drone strike operated remotely would do it. The drone operators would have time for a long lunch.

[ansible]

83. It will definitely happen if gun control happens

I hope those of you who keep pushing for it realize this.

[Mr.Bill]

86. I'll be there with my crowbar...

...to pry their guns from their cold dead fingers.

[Voltaire2]

91. Are we sad we might not be able to add to our collection of assault weapons?

[politruk]

97. Yeah, well,

about 5% or less of Americans own about half of all guns in private hands . . . They don't seem to realize that nobody can effectively use more than one gun at a time.

[raptor_rider]

87. It won't be a civil war

It’d be a Revolutionary one 💜 oooooohhhh I can’t wait.

[Voltaire2]

89. You are assuming the loyalty of armed forces and police

(although at this point 'armed forces' includes the police.)

I suggest that the events of Jan 6 demonstrate that your assumption is unwarranted.

Also as others have noted, a classic territorial civil war, as we had here in 1861-5, is not the model of modern civil wars. The model is far worse, with armed groups spread out across the country attacking each other not in large organized military formations, but instead opportunistically in small groups, primarily against soft civilian targets. Think Rwanda. Yugoslavia or Syria, not Blue vs Grey.

[Amishman]

92. This, I have no confidence that the military would not side with the secessionists

Or at least itself be fiercely divided.

National Guard in particular would be problematic as they are 'locals' for the most part. Red states would have an especially high concentration of right-wingers in their national guard

[politruk]

95. You know, it's hard to believe, now,

that there was a time in America, within the memory of many now living, when it looked like we would have a civil war and the LEFT would start it, despite most (certainly not all) leftists of the time being avowed pacifists.

[BGBD]

96. That's not how a 2nd Civil War would look

It would take much fewer people than you think to wage sustained asymmetric warfare on the population of major US cities. I have outlined it on here before and I'll do it again later when I'm not typing from a phone.

[TheRealNorth]

101. Exactly

All it would take is for the deplorables to block food and energy from getting to the cities. And they know that.

[msfiddlestix]

98. Not sure why you want to argue the point, but the Civil War has been going

since !861 and hasn't actually ended, despite the Surrender at Appomattox Agreement between Grant and Lee.

It has been simmering with cyclical eruptions of violence on small and large scale ever since.

It's simply a horrible and painful fact, with no end in sight.

[WarGamer]

105. No one seriously contemplates the Texas NG lining up against the 101st Airborne

A Civil War in 21st Century terms, in the US would mean States flat out refusing to follow Federal law and/or ignoring Constitutional law.