I woke up this morning in a low seething rage.

[AndyS]

Was going to write about it but thought better and took my dog for a walk instead.

I'm back from the walk but the rage hasn't diminished so I'm writing.

By now I'm sure you've heard that the Indianapolis FedEx shooter had his shotgun taken from him at the request of his mother because she was concerned about his mental state. Yet he was able to LEAGALLY purchased TWO AR15 rifles and passed TWO background checks to do so.

Since then there have been 4 mass shootings killing 13 and injuring 45.

Four days, 5 mass shootings, 21 dead and 50 injured in mass shootings.

Every God Damn one of these committed by law abiding citizens who passed a background check and legally bought the weapon of mass destruction they used.

And ya' know what? Mass shootings are just tip of the ice-burg that is death and destruction wreaked upon us by the gun industry. In the city of Ft Worth last week a father was shot breaking up a fight between his two teen sons, two students were shot at UNT in N Texas, a three year old died in an 'accidental' shooting in a park, a police officer and woman were shot in a suburb, two men were found shot dead in a apartment, a woman died when her car hit the guard rail of I-20 after being shot by another driver and I haven't covered all the shootings in ONE CITY IN ONE WEEK.

The media focuses on the DEAD but what about that 50 wounded in the last four days? How about the one that got shot in the gut, lost most of their digestive tract and will live with a plastic bag carrying their shit for the rest of their life? How about the one who now lives in a wheel chair because their spine was shattered? What about the three wounded for every death??? What of them? Don't they count?

What is wrong with us?


ETA: This can be fixed. Expand background checks to include Permit To Purchase from the nearest law enforcement agency, include a review of social media in the background check, limit concealed carry to 'show need' and finally outlaw the ownership of all semi auto guns that take removeable magazines of any size.

[smirkymonkey]

1. K&R

Rage is a healthy response to all this. Some people, like me, just get so overwhelmed and despairing over the whole thing, we go numb. It's not good. That is what they want, for us to get numb to all of this carnage. We need to stay angry and to take action and change things.

There is no good reason for anyone to have an assault weapon. None.

[packman]

2. And make buyers of weapons take out insurance for any harm caused

by owning them. Insurance companies would love this.

[Tree Lady]

5. It would be a win win with this one

People harmed would get medical paid immediately, you could still sue like a car accident but insurance would take care of immediate needs. I heard victims have to use their own insurance how insane. If your gun caused anyone harm no matter who used it, your insurance pays.

So you can bet insurance companies would start regulating what law makers are scared to do.

[aggiesal]

21. Also, the faster the car, the higher the premiums ...

in this case, the more automatic the gun, the more rounds/sec it can release should
all be part of what the premiums should be.
Make it so expensive to insure an AR that people won't be able to afford it.

[calimary]

24. Yep!

The whole “costs too much” argument is often enough of a motivator. Not always, of course, but I’d bet it’d save a few lives if implemented.

[aggiesal]

31. They should require a certificate of operation much like a drivers license ...

something about taking a gun safety course and a mental capacity certificate.

Don't make it illegal to purchase guns, just make it nearly impossible to jump
through the hoops to purchase gun.

[calimary]

34. Well, why not? Seems to work well enough when you substitute

“voting” for “guns”.

[aggiesal]

35. And if any gun stores or retailers sells a gun ...

knowing that any of the documentation is forged, they should be liable as well.

This puts the liability on the actual gun industry as well.

[BobTheSubgenius]

45. Raising prices works, if lowering tobacco usage is your goal.

I forget the numbers, but for every $1 the cost of a pack of cigarettes is raised, a predictable number of kids won't start smoking. If a pack costs a week's allowance, or even 2 weeks, who would start?

[pandr32]

6. Good suggestion

[keithbvadu2]

17. One partial solution - NRA/gun orgs sell (mandatory) liability insurance

One partial solution - NRA/gun orgs sell (mandatory) liability insurance

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100215279100

"Guns: There's a "Free Market" Solution Every Republican Should Love"

Insurance lets the market decide. Profit for the NRA

Solution - NRA/gun orgs sell (mandatory) liability insurance

Protects the gun owners,the public,and makes profit for NRA and gun orgs.

Surely we can trust the gun orgs to not take advantage of such power.

[dianaredwing]

37. then take away their guns

when they don't pay their premiums. Make them display stickers or laminated badges on their car and persons so that if they are a licensed gun owner everyone knows and those of us who wish to can stay clear of them. Anyone caught for anything, including jaywalking or spitting on the street gets checked for gun ownership and if they have unlicensed, uninsured guns they get them taken away. They are all so afraid of losing their guns, we should just take them.

[sarisataka]

58. Requiring people to wear

A symbol or device identifying them as members of a certain group doesn't bring up any images of a historical parallel. Nope, none at all.

[Wednesdays]

91. In the past, those symbols were for in-born traits.

What part of "gun ownership" is in-born?


Do you have a problem with automobile plate tags?

[sarisataka]

96. A person may be born into

Their parents religion, however as an adult they have a choice of which religion to follow- or none at all.

Do you see historical legal requirements to wear a symbol identifying a person's religion as being equivalent to the requirement to display a license plate to drive on public roads?

[dianaredwing]

97. Has only to do with their legitimate or not legitimate ownership

of a dangerous item, like a car, a gun can be used to kill people and the rest of the public have a right to know that the person(s) operating these items has a legitimate license and can therefore be somewhat trusted to know the laws and operate it safely without endangering others.

[Jedi Guy]

73. "They are all so afraid of losing their guns, we should just take them."

And you'll be the first to volunteer for confiscation duty, yes?

[wnylib]

41. I really like this idea. We have to have

insurance for cars, which can also cause injury and death. Let gun owners pay premiums for the damage they might cause. There would be some degree of self-restraint built into the requirement of insurance to own a gun. Lose your insurance, and you lose your gun. Can't afford multiple policies? Then don't buy multiple guns. Insurance companies have a vested interest in vetting customers.

[hack89]

51. And our car insurance does not cover criminal acts

And do you think mass shooters care? Do you think people illegally carrying guns will care?

[wnylib]

65. Do you think that all shootings

are carried out by people who are illegally carrying guns? Wasn't this thread started with a complaint about a shooter who was allowed to legally purchase guns after previosly having them confiscated?

There is no single solution to gun violence. We need a combination of solutions. Gun insurance can be one of them.

[hack89]

80. Insurance also does not cover criminal acts committed with legally acquired guns

That is basic to all insurance. They will cover acts of negligence but not deliberate criminal acts.

[wnylib]

84. Then I guess it would only work for

accidents, which might cause injury or property damage but not necessarily death. Payment might be denied due to carelessness then. Or cancelled, which would mean loss of the gun. Would that risk deter carelessness? Or would attempts to enforce giving up an uninsured gun result in a defiant shoot out?

Guess you are right. It wouldn't work.

Got any ideas for curbing gun violence by people who have guns both legally and illegally?

[hack89]

86. The best way to curb gun violence is to focus the legal system on violence of every kind

People that shot others are violent people in general. Any violence towards anyone else should be dealt with severely regardless of weapon and they need to go to jail. If a weapon is used they need to be in jail for at least 10 years.

[sarisataka]

60. Have you ever heard

Losing their car if they let their insurance lapse?

Fun activity count the next 7 cars you drive by. Likely one of them isn't insured. Repeat throughout the day to see how many uninsured drivers you encounter on a daily basis.

[wnylib]

68. Don't know where you live, but here

in NY, if your insurance is cancelled and you do not have proof of reinstating it with the same company or a new one, you have to turn in your plates to DMV.

[sarisataka]

70. I live in MN

And if you don't have insurance you a not supposed to drive. However insurance companies do not notify the DMV when an auto policy is canceled. If you have it on the day of registration, you are good to go.

NY may have a law that a canceled policy must be reported to the state, but I suspect it is mostly on the honor system. They won't send anyone out to collect the plates.

[wnylib]

72. By law insurance companies are required

to report lapsed policies. It is required by law to turn in your plates if you don't have insurance. And yes, they definitely do follow up if you do not turn them in by a deadline date. Follow up can be a citation for court appearance, along with court costs. Or a personal visit to remove the plates.

[hack89]

49. They don't payout for criminal acts

So the impact would be much less than you think. And btw - the NRA is the leading issuer of gun liability insurance so you would make them a fortune.

[Bettie]

3. What is wrong with us indeed

I mean, 20 little kids were shot to death and the only thing that happened was the guns became easier to get.

It gets easier with every mass shooting. Soon, most states will allow any yahoo out on the street to legally have a gun without a permit.

I don't have an answer, but I share your frustration.

[Kaleva]

4. The carnage hasn't reached a level which would produce gun control laws that'd actually work

We as a nation are a long way off yet from following the examples of the Vietnam anit-war effort and the civil rights movement.

[AndyS]

7. How many? When? If not now, if not me . . .

[Kaleva]

11. The lack of protests, riots, hunger strike, arrests and such suggest not enough.

People are satisficed with posting on social media which would be the equivalent of writing letters to the editors of newspapers back in the 60's.

[AndyS]

12. Oh, the protests are there but Trump tweets drown them out. Media????

[Kaleva]

14. Where's the tear gas, the rubber bullets, the attack dogs and the use of firehoses?

[Probatim]

16. At what level would that take?

Over 550,000 people are dead from COVID and 20%-30% of the population still won't get a vaccine.

I fear it's going to be a long, long time and piles and piles of bodies before we ever see change.

[Kaleva]

18. I agree. A lot more people are going to have to die.

Deaths from mass shooters is going to have to hit our own families or the families of people we directly know.

[calimary]

27. Grim. And probably true, sad to say.

The next victim - will it be someone YOU know/love/care about? Because there WILL be a “next victim.” Guaranteed.

[wnylib]

42. Or families of celebrities, social icons,

social hero figures. In other words, "important" people. People with money and clout.

[SWBTATTReg]

8. Remember that the vast vast majority of us are good decent people. We don't go running to

our guns if we have an argument or such, and start blazing away. That's the NRA's method of resolving arguments, buy a gun (or guns)!

The NRA, despicable with their pathetic and sickening argument on guns, gun laws, etc. Many cities have tried to pass ordinances on guns, w/ some republican state legislators pushing back on these urban cities' attempts to rein in guns, etc. calling them unlawful, etc.

And I bet that the NRA's solution to all of these shootings is simple...more guns! Ironically one of the victims did have a gun, didn't do him any good, he got shot and killed (I think) too.

[Hoyt]

9. +1. Background checks alone are not a lot of help. Outlawing detachable magazines would cool

gun-humpery significantly, as would restricting public toting.

Expanding background checks to include more than "Well Joe hasn't been arrested yet, so let him buy whatever he wants," is another key.

And, we need to remove the prohibition on suing gun manufactures, stores, and other profiteers for their efforts to lobby and buy Congresspeople, encouraging people to buy more gunz, running ads like that below for the gun that killed kids at Sandy Hook, and worse.

?ops=scalefit_720_noupscale

And I see no reason not to profile rubes like this:

?resize=488%2C519

[calimary]

28. Guns as penile extenders, I guess...

[Buckeye_Democrat]

10. Many people in power, economically and otherwise...

... would rather see the "little people" dead if they can't have total control over them.

We had a Civil War because of people who insisted on OWNING other people.

They oppose better healthcare for the masses, exacerbate a pandemic with misinformation, balk at stemming gun violence, oppose anti-pollution regulations, etc.

Edit: The Mr. Potter types, celebrated by Fox News:

[OldBaldy1701E]

95. BINGO! (n/t)

[world wide wally]

13. Is there even ONE documented case of anyone using an AR-15 for anything OTHER than killing someone?

[keithbvadu2]

20. The preferred weapon style of choice for killing schoolchildren

[ripcord]

23. Plenty of people hunt with them

https://time.com/4390506/gun-control-ar-15-semiautomatic-rifles/

[Hoyt]

25. Rube in the video is disgustingly stupid. His "three little pigs" massacre must be a gun-humper

orgasm or something.

[world wide wally]

40. Pathetic

[AndyS]

46. Uh, yeah having hunted hogs I can tell you that those other two hogs are gonna'

just sit there waiting for the double tap followed by the triple tap.

Any idea how fast a feral hog can run? Close to 30 miles per hour. First shot and and after that it's spray and pray hoping there isn't any other stock in that pasture.

This is nothing more than a sales promotional video for idiots who never hunted anything much less pigs.

[hack89]

53. They are the standard for competitive target shooting

That's what I use mine for

[world wide wally]

63. Well, gee... I guess that alone is worth all the lives it takes.

[hack89]

78. Ok. nt

[DiamondShark]

56. It is the prefered weapond for SWAT and other Law Enforcement.

AR-15 is more for appearances I suspect. Mostly paired with a shotgun, I forget the preferred shotgun loadout. Generally bean bag and close range round though.

And don't forget the backup, depending on the officer it can be anything from a compact handgun to full size handgun.

[Botany]

15. I woke up this AM with a blond female lab on my bed with me. She is 100 LBS and snores.

BTW GMTA https://www.democraticunderground.com/100215351400

[Hortensis]

19. What wrong with "us" is not enough people vote Democratic.

Or only sometimes. People who don't learn from their mistakes do usually repeat them, especially if they never realized they were making mistakes.

[live love laugh]

22. Yes and the media acts like this only happens in CHICAGO.

[Crunchy Frog]

26. Maybe we need to come at this from a different direction.

Since it's clear that society as a whole has agreed that our country must simply be bristling with firearms, society should also be asked to pay for the costs.

To that end, all victims of random gun violence, who were not directly involved themselves, would receive a Golden medical card. It would cover all medical needs related to a shooting incident, ranging from PTSD treatment for bystanders or survivors, all the way up to total lifelong care for someone with a shattered spine. This would cover any relevant treatment from any licensed medical provider, and would ALL be completely paid for by the government.

This would demonstrate our commitment to being a gun based society, by collectively taking full responsibility for the consequences.

If taxpayers began to balk at the costs, then society might begin to think about reprioritizing some things.

TLDR; Let society directly experience and PAY for the consequences of our country's gun fetish.

[AndyS]

30. Oh, you mean the $280 billion that fed, state and local governments pay now for

gun violence?

Yeah, that's what it cost us taxpayers in a year of covid recession.

[Crunchy Frog]

43. Simplify it, and make sure that everyone understands it as a collective cost

and responsibility. Make sure that people can see a direct connection between gun violence and their own tax burden.

This would also insure that the victims would be guaranteed all the care that they needed, and at no expense to themselves. No more Gofundmes. No more regular insurance picking up the tab and then increasing the prices for everyone else.

Nice and simple and handled by a single government agency, directly funded by taxpayers.

[AndyS]

47. I'm with you on paying for the cost to victims, lord knows there's a lot of them,

but make it a user fee. Take that $280 B and spread it out over every firearm and bullet sold.

I can afford it 'cause I hit what I shoot at or I don't pull the trigger in the first place.

[Crunchy Frog]

57. People would squeal that it was unfair discrimination,

and a backdoor form of the dreaded gun control.

Ultimately this situation is a collective one on the part of our society, so society needs to pay for the consequences.

This might ultimately lead to society reevaluating its priorities.

[MomInTheCrowd]

29. Show the horrifying pictures of the dead....and make it $5000/bullet

[AndyS]

32. Those are available now to any who have the courage to google image search

gunshot wound.

Not many have the stomach for it.

[Crunchy Frog]

62. Make it mandatory viewing in middle and high school.

Make it a part of civics education, since this is a part of who we are as a country.

The price of freedom isn't always pretty.

[Wednesdays]

93. You don't want to open that pandora's box

It would be the perfect excuse for anti-choice extremists to force children to view pics of abortions in schools.

[NJCher]

33. a couple other items need attention

one is that so many feed off a diet of action/adventure movies plus other types such as war movies, and even westerns. I won't watch any movie with violence in it, and when you have that parameter, there are so many movies to reject.

These movies normalize violence and guns. Watching them, one would think any person ought to be running around with a sawed off shotgun.

This is not normal. It is not normal to watch stuff like this day in, day out.

Our violent approach in the media needs to be changed.

The other is mental health. Many of people involved in these shootings have psychological issues.

[AndyS]

36. Yeah, what you said . . .

[Crunchy Frog]

54. Regulate psyches instead of guns in the name of protecting personal freedom?

The state gets to police everybody's mental health, and maybe mandate particular treatments, on the off chance that someone with an identifiable condition might attain a firearm and do harm with it?

This would be a MASSIVE infringement on people's actual freedom and rights to privacy, and likely would miss the people who were at greatest risk of committing gun violence.

[NJCher]

61. that's not even close to what I was suggesting

I don't know why you'd jump to that conclusion, but it is well known that relatives of shooters have reached out for help because they thought their family member was likely to commit such a crime. However, in most of these cases they were turned away or unable to find any help in the first place.

In the future, please confine your remarks to what the poster actually says and do not inject your own thoughts into what is said. This is what is known as "misreading."

[Crunchy Frog]

67. Okay. I appreciate the clarification.

Yes I do agree that the authorities should take reports from family members more seriously, and actually acted on them by confiscating guns, and prohibiting the purchase of new ones.

I apologize for responding to your post with my own ruminations. I tend to get a little triggered by talk of "mental health" in relation to gun violence.

I apologize for misunderstanding your post.

[NJCher]

76. sure

apology accepted.

[EX500rider]

75. So censorship of movies you don't think people should be watching?

Sort of Fahrenheit 451?

[AndyS]

79. Hey, it's the gunners who have said for years it's not gunz, it's movies and video games. Just sayin

[EX500rider]

83. I haven't heard anyone say that

Except the same kind of people that want to ban Rock lyrics and rap lyrics

[AndyS]

85. From this I must assume you're not an NRA (soon RIP) or GOA or NSSF follower. Just sayin.

[Wednesdays]

94. Other countries watch American movies regularly

Including the violent films.

Yet it is the USA with the gun problem. I wonder why that is.

[Quakerfriend]

38. We should be out in the streets over this

- I regret that the MSM does not show the horrors of what it means to be shot and survive.

This article tells the truth about the damage these newer automatic weapons do:
https://highline.huffingtonpost.com/articles/en/gun-violence/.

ER doctors I’ve know who have worked alongside Dr. Goldberg say she is the very best.

-I don’t know if anyone saw this but, Jackie Speier- who was shot multiple times, asked Marjorie T Green if she knew what is was like to be shot.

You can read of her harrowing experience here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jackie_Speier.

[AndyS]

50. Make this an OP. Survivors need the exposure so somebody starts to pay attention to

what they will go through for the REST OF THEIR LIVES.

[Runningdawg]

39. Speaking from experience in line at the gun store...

There needs to be a video of EVERY sale. If some nut goes off, find out who sold him the weapon. I don't give AF if you can pass a background check if you tell the clerk you want a gun for shooting (insert racial slur here) or tell them proudly, it's for killing liberals, or committing some other crime, YOU SHOULD BE DENIED. I was 2 spaces behind a 20 something once, either off his meds or on the wrong ones, who stood in line talking to his imaginary friend and having a pretend shootout with him while waiting for his paperwork to be finished. The clerk didn't give a damn, he needed the commission. Application approved. Will that be cash or plastic?

[Hoyt]

48. Good point. We had a gun store near me that ran ads on FB. One said, "This AR15 is great if some

'brown' person is running across your lawn."

Have not been in a gun store in decades and don't plan too, but I know what you said is true about some of the customers.

[MagickMuffin]

44. Well, Texas Legislators are now voting on making getting guns even easier

It passed the house and is moving for a vote in the senate.

Texas bill to carry gun without permit advances to state senate


NO PERMITS, let that sink in!

[AndyS]

52. I called and emailed both of my reps, house and senate

not that it will make a lot of difference here in TX.

[MagickMuffin]

55. Yep, my reps are worthless as well

But it is hard to imagine that this was even brought up to a vote. It is disgusting! As if we don't already have a gun problem, just as you stated in your excellent OP.


There will be just more shooting. Guns empower people, or so it seems.

[LaMouffette]

59. I'm seething, too, AndyS.

I live in Montana and our newly elected Republican governor Greg Gianforte (yes, the guy that body slammed a reporter for the Guardian) recently expanded our state's right-to-carry laws. Now, Montanans can carry concealed weapons pretty much everywhere, with these exceptions:

The measure allows concealed firearm possession without a permit by default in most places in the state, with exceptions including secure law enforcement facilities, federal buildings, courtrooms, and K-12 schools. Property owners and tenants would have the ability to expressly prohibit firearm possession in private homes and businesses.

[link:https://montanafreepress.org/2021/02/18/gianforte-signs-constitutional-carry-gun-bill/|

Nice how Gianforte and the Republican-held Montana legislature don't want people to conceal carry in the federal buildings where they themselves work, but it's fine for everyone else to be vulnerable to armed attack by some crazed, gun-toting nut job at their own workplace or other public location.

I simply don't understand how Republicans can be so unmoved by the spectacular increase in mass shootings. If anything, they see it as proof that people should buy more guns and have more freedom to take them anywhere they please and to buy whatever kind of gun they desire. I don't get it, I don't get it, I do . . . not . . . get it.

I had a few ideas, which have little hope in hell of being enacted, but here goes:

1. Give Americans one year in which to either register their guns or sell them to local law enforcement for a fair price. Then after one year, set up a hotline for reporting people who have guns that are not registered. Police go after those people and seize their guns. Pay tipsters $5,000 for each confiscated gun.

2. Make it so that no matter where you buy a gun, the person or store who sold the gun to you must deliver it to the local police station where you have to pick it up in person. When you pick it up, police will conduct the background check on the spot and do an interview with you. The police would have trained staff to evaluate the buyer's mental fitness and emotional state. This requirement would do two things: 1. If people knew they had to go to the cop shop to pick up their gun, they might not go buy one in the first place. 2. The police should be able to spot the most obviously unhinged people, judging by the looks of those arrested in recent mass shootings.

3. If we can't make assault rifles illegal, then we should adhere to the "well-regulated militia" part of the 2nd Amendment and make people who own an assault rifle join their state's National Guard. Require them to go through bootcamp and do the same number of hours of duty as other Guard members.

4. Also, if we can't make assault rifles illegal, then make it illegal to keep one's assault rifle at one's home. They would have to keep them in a local repository and check them out.

Like I said, these ideas would be met with rabid opposition from the gun-loving members of our country, but something, something must be done.

[politruk]

64. Certainly, a semi-automatic rifle

is more firepower than one would need for home defense, and it would be unsporting to use such a weapon for hunting. I can't see how a civilian has any legitimate use for such a weapon.

But banning them would make little difference -- most shooting deaths in the U.S. are inflicted by handguns. Good luck trying to ban those.

[AndyS]

66. I personally don't want to ban/confiscate all guns,

just the ones most lethal, i.e. semi auto with interchangeable magazines. Rate of fire and speed of reload make for maximum lethality.

Six shooters are usually more accurate, less prone to secondary discharge and if you can't make a bad guy stop doing what he's doing with six tries what the hell are you doing with a gun anyway?

[hack89]

81. You just want to ban the most popular and common guns

how generous of you.

[LittleGirl]

69. My hubby is convinced we need to restrict ammo

That’s his answer.
Make ammo so expensive that every single bullet costs 10 bucks or more.
I’m at a loss so my solution is to never live in my home country again which I am unwilling to accept. I want to move home but I am terrified because I love a man of color.
He’s a naturalized citizen but I’m scared to move back.
That’s the fact Jack.

[Runningdawg]

77. Do you realize that most gun nuts make their own ammo?

Restrict the sale of powder and primers like you do matches and Sudafed, that MIGHT make a dent.

[LittleGirl]

88. I did not.

I have seen shot gun ammo being made but that was decades ago.
I didn’t know you could make bullets for rifles at home.

[hack89]

82. That would be unconstitutional - the 2A covers ammo

the courts take a dim view of back door bans. There is plenty of case law on the subject.

[IbogaProject]

71. National personal armament insurance pool

I propose a self funded National personal armament insurance pool, all these costs need to be born by all gun owners in proportion to amount and relative threat. Single shot rifles pay the least, hand guns more, assault rifles the most.

[hadEnuf]

74. Not enough bodies stacked up yet for John Q. Public to say enough is enough.

He simply watches Fox Propaganda and listens to the current NRA backed asshole on the radio and forgets all about it. Except for the part about duh libs trying to take all his freedumbz, that is.

Fox, the NRA and the Republican party could care less about how high the bodies stack. It's what they like.

[MustLoveBeagles]

87. K&R

[secondwind]

89. Kicked

[augyboston]

90. What about the right to life?!?

What about the right to life?!? The first right mentioned in the Declaration of Independence! What about that right???

How about the right not to live in fear that as we go about a daily business some disgruntled nut with a firearm will decide to deny us the right to life???

Every time we go to the supermarket or to a movie or to the park, we have to worry that we may be cut down by some screwball with a firearm!

This country has become a shooting gallery, where the citizens are the ducks - as in sitting ducks. It's senseless and disgusting.

How many more children do we have to lose at school to decide we've had enough???

As far as I'm concerned we can vaporize the second amendment and outlaw all guns and to those who worship their guns - they can shove the second amendment up their asses!

[Stuart G]

92. Kick for visability...Thank You for Posting K and R