'Anglo-Saxon' Is What You Say When 'Whites Only' Is Too Inclusive

[Nevilledog]

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Adam Serwer 🍝
@AdamSerwer
I wrote about far right Republicans trying to rehabilitate "anglo-saxon" for political purposes, a term you use when "whites-only" is simply too inclusive and diverse

‘Anglo-Saxon’ Is What You Say When ‘Whites Only’ Is Too Inclusive
A new message proves too toxic for the Republican Party.
theatlantic.com
8:35 AM · Apr 20, 2021

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/04/anglo-saxon-what-you-say-when-whites-only-too-inclusive/618646/

Last week, far-right Republican Representatives Marjorie Taylor Greene and Paul Gosar distanced themselves from a proposal to create an America First Caucus, after a document bearing the group’s name made reference to “Anglo-Saxon political traditions.”

Both Greene and Gosar told the press that they hadn’t seen the document and did not endorse its sentiments, after House Republican Leader Kevin McCarthy condemned the effort, saying that America “isn’t built on identity, race, or religion,” and rejecting “nativist dog whistles.”

If seeing the party of Donald Trump distance itself from nativism is strange, it helps to understand that “Anglo-Saxon” is what you say when “whites only” is simply too inclusive.

The Anglo-Saxonism to which I refer has little to do with the Germanic peoples who settled in medieval England. Rather, it’s an archaic, pseudoscientific intellectual trend that gained popularity during the height of immigration from Eastern and Southern Europe to the United States, at the turn of the 20th century. Nativists needed a way to explain why these immigrants—Polish, Russian, Greek, Italian, and Jewish—were distinct from earlier generations, and why their presence posed a danger.

*snip*

[TheRealNorth]

1. I guess they couldn't get away with WASP...

Too many conservative white Catholics nowadays

[Kaleva]

2. Anglo-Saxons. The folks who invaded Briton and who loved to rape, pillage, kill and enslave.

[Happy Hoosier]

5. With all due respect....

That behavior was in no way unique in the early Middle Ages. The Anglo-Saxons were not some unusual pariah. The Franks were expansionist as well. And later the Scandinavians.

And this behavior was not unique to Europe. There were expansionist empires in South America, and Africa, and South Asian, and East Asia...



It irritates the hell out of me that White Supremacists co-opt history to advance their pernicious racism.

[Kaleva]

8. True which begs the question as to why pick that group, or any group, from that time period.

The Anglo-Saxons themselves got it bad later from the Vikings and then finally the Normans.

[Happy Hoosier]

11. That's a good question, and I think the answer is kinda in my previous reply...

They are using "Anglo-Saxon" as a code word for "White." And that irritates me to no end.

It used to be used very narrowly as well. Italians didn't count as white. Neither did Spaniards. Nor Poles, or any Eastern European "Slavs." And of course.... no Jews.

It makes me angry because my own heritage is almost entirely from the British Isles and Germany. I love the history of those places, and I love the traditional culture. But I HATE that it has been co-opted to denigrate the history and cultures of other peoples.

I want to be able to wear a T-Shirt with beautiful early-medieval Anglo-Saxon art, or one with emblems of Germany's medieval heritage without it being mistaken as an embrace of right-wing racist ideologies.

[Claire Oh Nette]

12. Anglo Saxon vs Celt

Not those Irish, not the Scots, not those Catholics.
Not those Italian, Polish, Russian, Greek, Eastern and Southern Europeans (often Catholic or Orthodox).

We don't mean those white people....


Outside of English Departments who teach Beowulf, Anglo Saxon is another barbaric tribe from the north...

[MacKasey]

27. Just like Rothschild is code for Jew

I can not stand that woman

[Happy Hoosier]

36. You and me both! NT

[Loki Liesmith]

28. That's the Norman French actually

[Kaleva]

39. The Anglo-Saxons who invaded Briton were themselves later conquered by the invading Normans

[Buckeye_Democrat]

3. I honestly didn't know about it...

... until the MTG stories came out.

So now I have another shirt that I won't wear in public.

No big deal since I rarely wear it anyway.

I bought this shirt when I was home-brewing a bunch of English ales years ago. (They're among the easiest to brew, btw.)

[Dream Girl]

4. So I guess that AngloSaxon would exclude white Cuban Republicans?

[azureblue]

24. and

Italians
Greeks
Dutch
French
Spanish
Swiss
Portuguese
Slavs (and maybe Aryans in general?)
Russians
Swedes
Norwegians
Danes
etc.

Gawd these bigots are stupid and proud of it

[struggle4progress]

6. "How we long for those glorious Anglo-Saxon days of yore!"

[Buckeye_Democrat]

7. The part about "Anglo-Saxon political traditions"...

... is what had me confused when I first read about that America First caucus.

What political tradition? Feudalism?!

Then I read about the history of "Anglo-Saxon" in the USA, and it made sense coming from MTG.

[struggle4progress]

9. "Let us pour our oblations to the blessed memory of King Offa who terrified

all the kings and provinces around him!"

[brush]

17. Taylor Greene has her facts and dates wrong of course.

Last edited Tue Apr 20, 2021, 02:58 PM - Edit history (3)

The Normans kicked the Anglo-Saxons asses in the Battle of Hastings in 1066 and became dominant in Britain. The Magna Carta (1215) and Parliament (1709), which I supposed she's crediting as an "Anglo-Saxon, political tradition", came centuries later, way after the Anglo-Saxons were defeated.

As usual, the bimbo, trying to gin up a KKK caucus in Congress, is wrong and confused again about her alleged whites-only heritage.

[Buckeye_Democrat]

21. If she was indeed referring to the Magna Carta...

... and such, then she was indeed off by a few centuries!

In HER case, she probably knew all about the old racist usage of the term in the USA.

[Redleg]

29. The Battle of Hastings lasted almost all day

It is viewed by most historians as a "close-run" battle that wasn't resolved until dusk, after the English King was wounded. Just several weeks before the English had soundly defeated a large Norwegian invasion force led by the king Harald Hardrada. Only a few days after that battle, Harold Godwinson received information that the Normans had landed near Pevensey in the south of England. He quickly moved his men 200 miles in four days to London and then with little rest, moved to block the Norman advance near Hastings.

The Normans did very little to improve England. They destroyed and looted many of the monasteries, taking or destroying a good many manuscripts. They imposed heavier taxation while providing fewer services to the people. They brought their form of feudalism to England, which gave much more power to the monarch, made most of the free men into unfree peasants, and limited the power of the other aristocrats to influence national policy through the Witan (council). The Magna Carta was a response to Norman policy rather than a fix to the old Anglo-Saxon system.

William the Conqueror treated the English people like shit, virtually annihilating the people of Northumbria and destroying their crops and animals. He confessed to his evil treatment of the English only on his death bed.

While I believe there are some things to admire about the Anglo-Saxon society, I don't like the use of "Anglo-Saxon" by these white "christian" nativist people. I think our national institutions are superior to any that have existed in the past, although we Americans do have some work to do to make them more just.

[struggle4progress]

37. "... no man in his senses can say that their claim under William the Conqueror

is a very honourable one. A French bastard landing with an armed banditti, and establishing himself king of England against the consent of the natives, is in plain terms a very paltry rascally original. It certainly hath no divinity in it. However, it is needless to spend much time in exposing the folly of hereditary right; if there are any so weak as to believe it, let them promiscuously worship the ass and lion, and welcome. I shall neither copy their humility, nor disturb their devotion ..."

Thomas Paine

[hatrack]

13. Hwaet. We Gardena in geardagum, eodcyninga, rym gefrunon, hu a elingas ellen fremedon.

Oft Scyld Scefing sceaþena þreatum,
monegum mægþum, meodosetla ofteah,
egsode eorlas!

[Celerity]

16. Beowulf FTW.

[Redleg]

30. Beowulf!

Nice.

[lunatica]

33. This must have made your iPhone crazy!

I can’t imagine what words it would pick to replace these with!

Very good! I like it!

[Mister Ed]

10. "Anglo-Saxon" is the new "Aryan".

Both are terms for certain archaic Germanic peoples. Both are inapplicable to any modern-day, living people. But both are useful to modern-day racists.

[hatrack]

14. And soon it'll be Angles vs. Saxons as the next logical step - who's whiter? Who's "purer"?

[azureblue]

26. wait until they find out

The Irish were once considered to be non white.

[Wounded Bear]

15. GMTA. I was gonna post the same thought...

Both "Anglo-Saxon" and the "Aryan" of the Hitlerite Germans are mythical constructs designed to delineate one group as special and superior to all others. Neither have any real genealogical meaning, and certainly no racial significance.

[Buckeye_Democrat]

19. Except geneticists and historians use it frequently.

Example:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_history_of_the_British_Isles
----------
Anglo-Saxons

Researchers have used ancient DNA to determine the nature of the Anglo-Saxon settlement, as well as its impact on modern populations in the British Isles.

One 2016 study, using Iron Age and Anglo-Saxon era DNA found at grave sites in Cambridgeshire, calculated that ten modern day eastern English samples had 38% Anglo-Saxon ancestry on average, while ten Welsh and Scottish samples each had 30% Anglo-Saxon ancestry, with a large statistical spread in all cases. However, the authors noted that the similarity observed between the various sample groups was possibly due to more recent internal migration.[19]

Another 2016 study conducted using evidence from burials found in northern England, found that a significant genetic difference was present in bodies from the Iron Age and the Roman period on the one hand, and the Anglo-Saxon period on the other. Samples from modern-day Wales were found to be similar to those from the Iron Age and Roman burials, while samples from much of modern England, East Anglia in particular, were closer to the Anglo-Saxon-era burial. This was found to demonstrate a "profound impact" from the Anglo-Saxon migrations on the modern English gene pool, though no specific percentages were given in the study.[20]

A third study combined the ancient data from both of the preceding studies and compared it to a large number of modern samples from across Britain and Ireland. This study concluded that modern southern, central and eastern English populations were of "a predominantly Anglo-Saxon-like ancestry" while those from northern and southwestern England had a greater degree of indigenous origin.
----------

I'm not going to allow a bunch of ignorant white supremacists to completely control our language and terminology.

[Wounded Bear]

38. Using terms scientifically is different than using them as propaganda...

Yes, A-S was a distinct group of people that moved onto the British Isles at some point in history, sometime after the Romans and before the Viking incursions or the Normans. My bad on that. Aryans, however were not really connected with ethnic Germans in any meaningful way I know of, other than in a linguistic sense.

[agingdem]

23. They used to call it Judeo-Christian but

the "judeo" part got stuck in their throats..the white right(ous) Anglo-Saxon Caucus has officially relegated Jews to their list of inferiors (blame it on the Jewish lasers taking out forests)...Blacks/Hispanics/Asians/Native Americans/Muslims/LGBTQ...in other words multi-cultural multi-ethnic America...as a child of Holocaust survivors I can now "tell" my long buried parents we finally belong...and we owe it all to the stupidest most moronic assholes on this fucking planet...

[Behind the Aegis]

25. Interestingly, "Judeo-Christian" started out as an insult!

It was meant to demonstrate the subservient nature of Judaism because while it gave rise to Christianity, it was because it was inherently flawed and wrong. Of course, it no longer is used that way, but that was it's original use. I just found this out reading "The Chosen Wars" a book about Jewish life in the US starting back prior to the US as colonies.

[Binkie The Clown]

18. I grew up in the 40s and 50s in a small town where minorities lived apart...

... on the wrong side of the tracks. And minorities included blacks, Puerto Ricans, and Irish Catholics. Being Irish Catholic myself, I grew up among a lot of great friends who were black, Puerto Rican, and Irish. Even though the Irish are Anglo Saxon, they have been reviled at various times in various places. All us outcasts hung out together and had a good life growing up. I have never been able to tolerate discrimination of any kind. It sickens me.

[Buckeye_Democrat]

20. Most of the Irish are considered Celts...

... from a genetic perspective.

[Binkie The Clown]

31. I thought that Celtic was a subset of Anglo-Saxon. I guess I was wrong.

I just found this interesting BBC article on Celts vs Anglo-Saxons.

https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-31905764

On edit: from the article: The finding is the first genetic evidence to confirm what some archaeologists have long been arguing: that Celts represent a tradition or culture rather than a genetic or racial grouping.

[Buckeye_Democrat]

32. Interesting article! Thanks!

There was indeed a lot of mixing of the Anglo-Saxons with the indigenous people of the British Isles.

A lot of the old stories of military conquest by the Anglo-Saxons appear to be largely a myth too, as covered in a recent episode of "Secrets of the Dead" (PBS).

https://www.thirteen.org/programs/secrets-of-the-dead/king-arthurs-lost-kingdom-6dpt6t/

[politruk]

22. It's not a new thing.

Thomas Jefferson was a Saxon supremacist. His proposed design for the Great Seal was a portrait of Hengist and Horsa. The idea, apparently, was that the Americans were reviving the Saxon democratic tradition that had been suppressed by Norman feudalism. Not that there was no aristocracy in pre-Norman England.

[BarbD]

34. Fear and ignorance breeds hate and insecurity.

My mother who believed in the Master Race theory was terrified that I, with both sets of grandparents immigrating from Germany, might- horror of horrors - marry an irishman.

My husband when asked about his heritage explained that he was descended from the first baby born from the Mayflower. I was eligible to be a member of the DAR a privilege that never sat well with my liberal leanings.

[lame54]

35. They want to make America a country club

[scarytomcat]

40. and I thought they were German Nazi fascists