In Columbus, a cop shot a 15-year-old girl 10 SECONDS after he arrived on the scene

[StarfishSaver]

He gets out of the car at 6:42 - he fires FIVE SHOTS at 6:52.

The people he fired at obviously posed no threat to him. They were fighting with each other. Several other people were standing nearby watching and did not seem to feel that they were in any danger.

No - he does not get the benefit of the doubt. No - this was not the girl's fault. No - the cop was not at any risk, much less under any threat. He shot that child in cold blood for absolutely no reason.

[H2O Man]

1. It has to stop.

Recommended.

I wish I could find the words to say more. I can't. It has to stop.

[TheBlackAdder]

148. It's like the time cops drove up fast and killed the kid on swing set within a few seconds.

[Hoyt]

2. Seems clear to me policeman saved life of other girl, from what I just saw.

https://www.nbc4i.com/news/local-news/officer-involved-shooting-reported-in-east-columbus/

[TheProle]

4. That is exactly right.

He fired within 10 seconds because in the 11th either she was going to be shot or the young lady in pink was going to be gutted.

[StarfishSaver]

10. "The young lady in pink was going to be gutted"

Bullshit. "The young lady in pink" was on her feet, very mobile and could easily have gotten away from the other girl. The cop made absolutely no effort to deescalate or even assess the situation.

I am sick and tired of people looking at black people being mowed down in the street by trigger-happy cops and having the temerity to insist that it was the right thing to do.

This has got to stop.

[Phoenix61]

24. I realize you never believe a shooting is justified

but that doesn’t mean it isn’t. If the cop had rolled up there and that young girl had managed to kill the young girls she was trying to stab because he waited to act you’d say he didn’t act fast enough because he doesn’t care about black lives.

[StarfishSaver]

28. No, Boo. I often think shootings are justified

But I also don't automatically assume that every shooting is justified or believe that cops who shoot 15-year-old Black girls 10 seconds after arriving on the scene deserve the benefit of the doubt.

The cop did absolutely nothing to try to intervene, stop or deescalate the situation - something they are trained to do. He just started firing. That is NOT by the book.

And those "snap judgments" always seem to involve shooting black people to death. We don't nearly as often see white people - even white people waving guns and knives and even white people who have already killed people - shot down this way. The police have tools and training to deal with those situations. But too many cops see Black people as inherently dangerous and far more dangerous than they see white people and their first reaction to too many situations is to use deadly force when they would not do the same with white people.

So, no I don't automatically assume shootings of Black people are justified. The question is why, given all that we've seen over the past few years, would anyone?

[Maraya1969]

108. No. You can fight back with a knife. And the parents could have fought to get

the one with the knife off. For fuck's sake I would have gotten in the middle of that and at least no one would have been damned killed!

Everything with them is shoot shoot shoot and kill.

He didn't save shit and I guarantee if that was a group of white teenage girls he would not have needed to gun one down to stop her.

[StarfishSaver]

114. And if these were white kids, we wouldn't be swarmed with white people insisting that this scared

kid was a murderer who needed to be neutralized in the driveway.

[Maraya1969]

118. Exactly.

[PoliticAverse]

123. Really? Do you think a "white kid" is incapable of stabbing someone? n/t

[StarfishSaver]

125. Of course not

I just know that a white kid who may be capable of stabbing someone is far less likely to be shot 5 times by the police within seconds of encountering them.

[ExciteBike66]

161. But the parents were not fighting to get the girl with the knife off...

Since that didn't happen, what other option was there?

The cop saved that other kid's life.

[RegularJam]

232. "The cop saved that other kid's life."

More hyperbole. Almost each instance of support for this killing comes laced with hyperbole.

[ShazzieB]

279. Hyperbole is right.

Some of these comments are making me want to

They also may me feel like

[HipChick]

72. Exactly...

[RegularJam]

229. You need to ask yourself why you need to float such hyperbole...

In order to make your case.

"or the young lady in pink was going to be gutted."

[TheProle]

231. Where is the hyperbole?

[RegularJam]

234. I put it in quotes to make it easy.

I'm confident you recognize it.

[TheProle]

237. We can play semantic games all day

Are you disputing that, at the time of being shot, the assailant was in the process of thrusting a 6" blade at the young lady in pink?

[RegularJam]

241. Claiming she was about to be gutted is not semantics.

It's rank hyperbole.

You clearly know that as you have now replaced something completely made up with the actual events. Such a quick and drastic change from your original and completely made up "gutting" argument.

[TheProle]

245. Okay then.

Fortunately we will never know how severe the attack on the woman in pink would have been since the attacker was stopped.

Keep up the great work calling out hyperbole on the internet.

[StarfishSaver]

239. If the cop's bullets had hit the "young lady in pink," the apologists here would be describing her

very differently. She'd no longer be an innocent victim but an out-of-control junior thug involved in an altercation that caused her own death.

[Bettie]

242. DING! That's what the message would be under those circumstances.

There's always an excuse for the cop who shoots a Black or Brown kid. Always.

My eyes have really been opened between this and the Toledo shooting, not about the cops, but about the fact that there are far more people who fully support summary extrajudicial execution by cops than I ever imagined.

[RegularJam]

248. How are we going to move forward when so many view this as ok?

Even many who claim it to be justified seem to view the shooting as a necessity. It just had to happen. It is a thought process that maintains the status quo.

I appreciate reading your posts on this.

[PoliticAverse]

259. That's interesting because that's what people defending the girl doing the stabbing are doing.

Describing the girl in pink as someone that was part of the altercation and to blame for the stabbing attempt on her as the girl with the knife was "defending herself".

[StarfishSaver]

262. I haven't seen anyone describe her as but an out-of-control junior thug"

I don't think you have either.

[ShazzieB]

281. Nope, not one person here has said anything close to that.

Not that I have seen.

[StarfishSaver]

6. Bullshit

These excuses have got to stop.

What in the hell does a cop have to do for you to ever assume that maybe THEY should not have shot someone to death within seconds?

[Hugh_Lebowski]

17. Yeah, no she was running away ... his yelling was enough to break up the fight ...

Totally disagree.

That was fucking ridiculous.

[PSPS]

32. He could have "saved life of other girl" without the gun.

Poorly trained and ill-equipped cops are a scourge. A taser or a skillfully tossed baton would have worked here. Lethal force wasn't necessary.

[kcr]

36. I'm sorry

But if someone has a hold of me and the knife is about to go in quickly in a lethal manner, I hope the police officer does whatever is necessary to stop them instantly. If that's shooting them, so be it. The girl she was trying to stab matters, too.

[Maraya1969]

113. They show a slow mo of the scene. Go watch it because no one had a hold on

anyone and no knife was immediately going anywhere.

That's why people don't usually use knives. Because they are totally inefficient at killing other people. Especially when there is a bunch of other people there that can pull someone off.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

120. You must have watched a different video,

because what you say is bullshit, she was a split second away from stabbing the girl in pink.

[kcr]

124. I have watched it

Knives certainly aren't as efficient at killing as guns, but that doesn't mean they aren't deadly. And she most certainly did have a grip on her and was going at her with the knife.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

127. From what I saw on the video,

she was a split second away from stabbing the girl in pink.

[kcr]

130. That is what I saw, too (pic)

Link to tweet

[48656c6c6f20]

173. Good thing that cop was equipped with slow motion

Tech. I can't even see a knife in that freeze frame. But then again I'm not that robo cop that has special slow motion tech.

[ShazzieB]

280. I know, right?

I don't see a knife, either. Looks like that girl might have something in her hand, but it could be anything. Or nothing. But then I'm also not a robocop.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

284. Are you fucking kidding me?

it was a knife, with about a 6" blade, and would have caused massive damage if she had stabbed the girl in pink with it.

Even the neighbors have said she was wielding a knife.

[kcr]

294. Either wilfully blind

Or something else I can't say because I don't want to get banned,

[MarineCombatEngineer]

295. That's why I was very careful in my comment,

I too, don't want a hide or a ban, but there is definitely an agenda with that one.

[ShazzieB]

323. In the freeze frame image in post no.130, the knife is not visible.

I'm not saying it wasn't there or that it may or may not be visible in other images. I'm saying it is not clearly visible in that particular image.

[Maraya1969]

134. Look at the picture in the OP. That is when the cop was shooting and the man was

closer to that girl than the girl with the knife was.

[kcr]

141. What picture in the OP?

And about that man in the picture. He isn't closer to the girl in pink if that's what you mean. It isn't possible to be any closer to her than the girl who is trying to stab her. It seems he was more concerned with continuing the attack on the first girl.

[Demsrule86]

178. The girl was trying to stab another girl and had a knife...it is a sad situation...but I don't see

the cop as having much choice. The girl with the knife knew the cops were there did she stop and drop the knife... not in the video I saw.

[EX500rider]

282. "why people don't usually use knives. Because they are totally inefficient at killing other people"

And yet around 1,500 people get stabbed to death in a year in the US, way more then get killed by rifles which kill around 350.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/195325/murder-victims-in-the-us-by-weapon-used/

[Maraya1969]

312. That is when someone overpowers someone else. Like a husband kills his wife.

How many times does a knife kill with one blow? That's what I'd like to know because there was no way that girl was getting more than one blow, if at that.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

316. That's just plain wrong,

it literally takes less than 2 seconds to stab someone multiple times, and a knife wound, even if it doesn't kill, is devastating, and the video shows that the girl was a split second away from plunging it into the girl's neck which would have almost certainly been fatal, especially if the knife hit or nicked the carotid artery.

[PoliticAverse]

37. "Tasers are not for deadly force situations"

They don't always work and are single shot devices - you miss you don't get another shot.

(See: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/taser-vs-gun-why-police-choose-deadly-force-despite-non-n656461 )

[pinkstarburst]

197. That's what I interpreted, too

It's terrible that he had no choice but to use deadly force, but I have to wonder if that girl with the knife was experiencing some kind of psychotic break, trying to stab everyone she came into contact with. It literally would take one stab wound into a bad spot in the neck or stomach and one of those other girls would be dead.

The policeman had to make a hard, split-second decision, and his heroic actions likely saved the lives of the other girls.

[StarfishSaver]

201. Why are you so quick to assume he had no other choice

And just as quick to assume that the girl was in the wrong?

This willingness to immediately give cops the benefit of the doubt while assuming their victims deserve to be killed is one of the reasons that people have had to take to the streets to demand justice. Cops are not entitled to that kind of benefit of the doubt when they kill people.

[pinkstarburst]

204. LOL, for real?

The girl was out there crazy-stabbing people. The cop made the right call in using lethal force to stop her from killing the other two girls.

[StarfishSaver]

205. And there you prove my point

Thank you.

[Jirel]

217. Oh, FFS, what a right-wing spin.

He ENDANGERED that girl. He was shooting practically right at her, emptying his clip. It was frankly a miracle that she was not blown away as well.

Even if she had been stabbed, it is rare that a stabbing done by an untrained person in the heat of anger will do more than cut up another person, or damage muscle. Not a "nothing burger," but not deadly if treated. It's a lot harder to do serious damage than people think, if a person is just swinging wildly.

The danger to her of being shot and dying was much, much greater than any danger she faced from the knife.

In a situation like this, at best he could've waded in with a taser. Deescalation is apparently only for white fights.

This kkkop is a murderer.

[Hoyt]

218. Neighbor's response on CNN --

Here's a written report of the neighbor -- A neighbor of Ma’Khia Bryant told “New Day” that video of Ma’Khia’s death demonstrated that the teen “was the aggressor.” “I can certainly see why the police officer chose to stop her. Now, whether or not less lethal force could have been used, whether or not a Taser could have been chosen instead of a gun — I don’t know,” Ira Graham III told CNN’s John Berman. “But I do know that with Ma’Khia having that lethal weapon in her hand, she did need to be stopped.”

https://www.sbsun.com/2021/04/21/ohio-police-officer-shot-and-killed-a-black-teenage-girl-holding-a-knife-police-say-and-bodycam-video-shows/


Again, I suppose next time you'd prefer to see police smoke a cigarette and let them fight it out, one girl armed with a knife.

[Jirel]

233. That statement shows your bias, and poor analysis.

I really don't give a rat's ass what the NON-WITNESS neighbor said. You can always get a person who'll say what you want them to say. Ira Graham has literally nothing of value to say. He came home, went in, and then came out again AFTER MA'KHIA WAS MURDERED because he heard shots. (https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/04/20/columbus-police-shooting-16-year-old/) Any statement he made was based on what he heard in the aftermath, likely from the police.

Also, you're playing the false dichotomy game. The two options are not "put an entire clip of bullets into a little girl's chest while missing her 'victim' only as a matter of luck," versus "standing around smoking a cigarette." You have many other options, especially the ones that usually are used when a couple white people are duking it out, like trying to separate and deescalate (including starting with yelling "Police! Drop the knife and everyone stand where you are! Hands up!&quot , or using a taser.

[Hoyt]

240. You aren't biased? First off, those two weren't "duking it out." Talking about "poor analysis."

This is not "duking it out." Maybe next time, police should just not respond and let them "duke it out."

[wryter2000]

3. Reminds me of Tamir Rice

The car had barely come to a stop when the cop killed a little kid.

[StarfishSaver]

7. Exactly

Yet there are people here who are insisting that it was justified.'

It makes me sick to my stomach.

[boston bean]

186. I am sorry but she was going to stab that girl in the pink.

If that isn’t justified I do not know what is.

I think this is a justified case.

Sometimes there are cases where it is justified this is not one to hang ones hat on for the very real cause of racial justice.

[Hoyt]

9. You need to watch the video. The policeman saved the life of the other girl.

Before seeing the slow motion, I’d agree with you.

https://www.nbc4i.com/news/local-news/officer-involved-shooting-reported-in-east-columbus/

[StarfishSaver]

13. I watched the video

That's why I know these excuses are full of shit.

And there is no way that if these were white people fighting in their driveway and a cop slaughtered a child less than 10 seconds after arriving on the scene, people would be insisting that he was right because the murdered white child was a killer.

Of course, there aren't many opportunities for people to make that argument, because cops don't assume that white kids are murderers - even those who are - and they don't shoot them dead in their driveways like this child was killed.

[kcr]

18. You can try to sell the idea

That a cop would totally watch a white kid stab another white kid to death and do nothing to stop it. I don't think you're going to get many buyers.

[Demsrule86]

183. Of course not.

[ShazzieB]

283. You seem to be making an assumption here.

Not all of us believe that the only options available to that cop were "do nothing" or "shoot a 15 year old kid dead without even trying anything else first."

Not sure why you think that, but I don't.

[kcr]

298. Not really

I'm making a straight-up assertion that the best option available at that moment was stopping the girl with the knife in the fastest way possible. A cop showed up, and that's what happened.

This is what happened when no one was around who could or would stop it. Just happened yesterday: https://local12.com/news/local/13-year-old-girl-stabbed-to-death-in-winton-hills-cincinnati-nyaira-givens-page

[ShazzieB]

328. And I'm saying that I DON'T KNOW if it was the best option.

Maybe it was. Maybe it wasn't. I personally don't know, and I'm not prepared to assume either way without a lot more information.

When I look at the video (either at regular speed or slo mo), I see a confused mess that I can't make any sense of. Based on that, I'm not prepared to assume that the cop made the wrong choice, the right choice, or the only choice. If anyone else thinks they know exactly what happened, more power to them. I DON'T KNOW, and the fact that some think they do know doesn't change that for me.

[Hugh_Lebowski]

19. Not to mention how easily he might've hit the girl in Pink who was right there ...

This is all kinds of fucked up.

[StarfishSaver]

23. He just started yelling and firing

But he's a white cop and she was a Black girl who supposedly had a knife, so guess who gets the benefit of the doubt and guess who white folks will jump in to defend and guess who they'll assume to be a thug and a murderer ...

I was feeling pretty good earlier today, but I'm starting to channel my inner Jason Johnson.

[PoliticAverse]

29. "who supposedly had a knife" - I admit I assume that the person with the knife...

chasing and trying to stab other people is likely to be attempting murder.

[TwilightZone]

207. "who supposedly had a knife"

You're really going to argue that there was no knife?

[kcr]

278. I'm starting

to sense the presence of architecture.

[Hoyt]

20. Well, let's ask the girl in pink who was a split second away from being killed.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

21. +100. nt

[Maraya1969]

129. Do you really think you couldn't have pulled that girl off? Because I know I could have.

It is hard to get a kill shot with something that is attached to you hand. The other person has arms and legs to fight back at you. It is not the same as shooting a bullet!

You act like she was some sort of martial artist who was going to do a flip in the air and slit the girl's throat on the way down. It only happens like that in the movies.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

131. Sure you could have,

you also would more than likely been stabbed.

[Maraya1969]

136. But you most likely wouldn't be dead. What is the matter with everyone?

[kcr]

139. Yeah, no on ever dies from that

It's like a paper cut

[Hoyt]

132. Sure thing, from 10 feet away with 0.5 seconds to react. She was in a stabbing

motion.

But, they’ll ask the lady in pink.

[The Magistrate]

30. I Watched It, Sir, And Am Not Impressed

He came up on the middle of something.

He had no idea who was who and what was going on, nor does he seem to have made any effort to find out.

He resorted to a gun, quickly enough that he appears to have had no idea what to do besides shoot.

It seems he made a mistake, as the person he shot was the person who had called for assistance against several others.

He is unfit for the profession.

This kind of crap needs to stop.

To put it bluntly, I have reached a point where my first reaction to news of a police officer being shot is that the officer probably had it coming, and if he or she didn't, someone else in the department did, and people in uniform are interchangeable --- that's the whole point of a uniform.

By now, any officer is responsible for any other officer's misconduct.

[Hoyt]

33. Sorry, the girl was about to stab another girl. Watch the slowmo.

https://www.nbc4i.com/news/local-news/officer-involved-shooting-reported-in-east-columbus/

[The Magistrate]

38. Having Told You Already That I Watched The Thing, Sir

There's hardly any point to your attempt at instructing me.

I repeat, he rolled up in the middle of something, and had no idea what was going on.

Using deadly force in a situation you are ignorant of usually results in a fuck-up. It has here.

The man is unfit for the profession.

[Hoyt]

42. Glad he rolled up, and I bet the young lady in pink is too.

[The Magistrate]

56. The Situation As Described To the Dispatcher, Sir

Was of a young woman calling for police help because several girls were threatening her in the group home.

Clearly the situation boiled over between the call and the officer's arrival.

There is no reason to presume the lone person engaged with several others was the aggressor. She may well have been acting in self-defense against a threat, or assault.

Sometimes the tables turn, and people who start something up find they have bitten off more than they can chew.

I will wait for more information on the total circumstances before any final judgement, but at this point, on the information available, the officer is at best a trigger-happy fool, who is not to be trusted with anything more lethal than a popsicle stick.

If the reports of police on the scene calling out 'blue lives matter' afterwards is accurate, wholesale firings would seem in order.

[Hoyt]

60. The person with a knife - attempting to stab an UNARMED girl -- is aggressor, Sir.

[The Magistrate]

65. Not Necessarily, Sir

People have been known to employ a weapon in self-defense against attackers. And bullying groups have at times been routed by resistance much fiercer that they expected.

[Hoyt]

68. Yeah, OK.

[kcr]

77. So, the cop should have just let her stab the girl in pink

Because the girl in pink may have been the aggressor at some point? Even though she clearly wasn't at the moment she was about to be stabbed?

That is ludicrous.

[Hoyt]

82. Lady in pink was unarmed at that point for sure.

[The Magistrate]

94. How It Began, What Transpired Prior To His Arrival

Will sort out. Noting who has the upper hand at the moment is a poor way to sort out the rights and wrongs of a fight you come in one the middle of.

[kcr]

96. She was about to stab that girl

Sorting the rights and wrongs did not even matter at that moment. This was no sorting out. There was about to be a murder. The girl in pink was standing there before the girl decided to rush at her with a knife.

[The Magistrate]

100. You Are Running Well Ahead Of Available Information

Fortunately, you are not in such a situation with a pistol in your hand.

[kcr]

106. I'm running with what I saw on the video

I'm not a cop and I don't carry a gun. But if I did, I imagine I would have reacted the same way. I think most people would. I also fervently hope if I were in the same situation as that girl in pink that others would as well.

[Ms. Toad]

133. Here is a screen capture

at the moment police starts to fire. You should be able to see the knife in her right hand in the top center pane.



What follows in the video is that the girl with the knife continues to swing the knife toward the girl in pink, who picks up her right leg in an attempt to block the knife - and then rolls to her left as the bullets hit the girl with the knife, who collapses.

[StarfishSaver]

142. Because people in the middle of heated situations like this are likely

to say "oh, I see the cops have arrived. I shall drop my knife and back off."

These incidents don't work that way. Cops are trained to handle all manner of situations involving out-of-control, hysterical and/or violent people who are not thinking or behaving rationally. Shooting them is supposed to be a last resort.

It's bad enough that he shot her. But shooting her multiple times suggests the girl he shot was not the only person on the scene who was out-of-control.

[kcr]

144. If a knife an inch away from actively being plunged into a body

isn't last resort, then what is?

[ExciteBike66]

158. "Shooting them is supposed to be a last resort."

It was the last resort. She was actually in the act of stabbing someone else.

[Pachamama]

164. +100000

It was the last resort and done to save another persons life

[ExciteBike66]

165. I can understand that we are all sensitive to when a cop shoots a young black girl, but..

this case is clearly a defensive shooting.

I would love to hear from the girl in pink and her family, I think they would say only good things about how the officer handled the situation.

[EX500rider]

285. "oh, I see the cops have arrived. I shall drop my knife and back off."

If they don't want to get shot that is exactly what they do.

[StarfishSaver]

290. Not in the real world

That's not how normal people behave in these situations. Cops know that.

[EX500rider]

291. Everybody especially POC know to drop a weapon when cops show up or bad things happen.

[StarfishSaver]

293. What a ridiculous comment

Now you think a person of color - an hysterical child, no less - in the midst of a high stress situation in which she obviously feels threatened and terrified is supposed to have the presence of mind to know that a police car has pulled up and within few seconds know to drop her knife so that she isn't shot by a cop.

Wow.

[EX500rider]

296. Yes anybody older than nine knows that

[greenjar_01]

69. I don't think she was "lone against several others" Magistrate

The video clearly shows that the male who later berates the officer was with her, since he is seen trying to kick the other girl she was fighting with (I didn't see an attempted stabbing of the girl on the ground). Furthermore, the girl or woman that she is trying to stab at 9:58 in the slo-mo is not even involved in the fight when the cop arrives. She is leaning against the car a good 15 feet away from the scuffle and, in fact, Ms. Bryant goes after her. Hard to make a case for self-defense here on the attempted stabbing, in any case. I'm not sure what the man says (the guy who tries to kick the other girl she's fighting in the head), but it almost sounds like "You shot my baby?"

In any case, it's clear that the cop had little sense of what was going on here, but it's tough with the evidence we have to say a) that she was alone against a bunch of attackers and b) that her actions were in self defense. She's clearly the aggressor against the girl in pink.

[The Magistrate]

87. I Agree More Information Is Needed For Final Judgement, Sir

But the officer made an awfully final judgement, knowing next to nothing about the circumstances.

Given the usual standard of pistol fire, he's lucky he did not shoot both of them.

[greenjar_01]

88. No question

He opted for the most irreversible of actions.

[ExciteBike66]

157. You're kidding right?

"There is no reason to presume the lone person engaged with several others was the aggressor. She may well have been acting in self-defense against a threat, or assault."

Even if the girl in black was attacked first, she was clearly pursuing the girl in pink at the time of the shooting. She became the aggressor at that point.

The cop didn't know the whole story, but his shooting appears to be justified from the video. You seem to think he should have just watched the girl get stabbed because maybe there was a story behind it?

[MoonlitKnight]

58. No.

Come on.

1. It was a person armed with a knife right next to the person being attacked.
2. There were multiple other people who could have been hit by opening fire.
3. He unloaded four rounds.

He decided to be judge, jury and executioner.
He put numerous people at risk.
None of the other cops unloaded on her.

This isn’t a movie or cop show. There is no excuse for this.

[Hoyt]

62. Ask the girl in pink what she thinks.

[StarfishSaver]

64. There are lots of excuses for it. And we're seeing a whole lot of them right here

Sickening

[MarineCombatEngineer]

67. Why don't you run that by the girl in pink who was about to be stabbed in the neck

and see what her reaction would be to your ridiculous statement.

[CrackityJones75]

255. Ok and what if the girl with the knofe was originally the victim?

Then what? He has just killed someone who was trying ti defend themself.

“Do gooders” with a gun whether they have a badge or not generally take a fucked up situation and make it more fucked up.

[Hoyt]

257. Well, the officer knew someone called saying someone was trying to stab her. If it turns out

to be the other girls were trying to stab the victim (which officer would not have known), was the officer suppose to stand there and watch the girl in pink get stabbed? Should the next officer that arrives in a similar situation walk away because he doesn't have a day to study the situation?

I will admit that if the other two girls were the perps, it is a bigger tragedy, notably for bullying. But, they weren't trying to stab anyone when the officer arrived and the officer didn't yell at them to drop the knife. The girl that got shot was. If they bullied the victim, they should be arrested.

Seems to me that if the other two girls had the knife originally, they weren't intent on stabbing the victim because they had her outnumbered and it would have been easy.

The girl below is intent on stabbing the girl in pink at that moment, that's what the policeman saw and knew.

?w=1040&quality=70&strip=all

[CrackityJones75]

258. Ok so lets think about this.

Someone calls about a girl with a knife. The officer didn’t teleport to the scene. First the call had to come in, then it had to get dispatched, the cop had to arrive at the scene.


In all this time nobody had been killed. But of course the stabbing was now imminent correct? Come on man in the time the cop got there the situation could have changed dramatically. Now the cop is killing someone that is defending themselves. The cop has NO IDEA what is going on. Additionally that cop put both people in harms way.

Whatever go watch some more cops and robbers shoot em up movies. Bang bang!! Woohoo!

[Hoyt]

261. I agree things could have changed and if no one had a knife, the shooting would have been

clearly wrong and the officer charged. If both girls had a knife, same if he had no way of knowing aggressor (and I doubt that is ever the case when both parties are armed).

In this case, the officer arrived, the girl that was killed runs toward the girl in pink with a knife and corners her, the officer yells put it down (or something like that) several times, she does not and goes into a stabbing motion. What do you think the officer should have done?

How about what they should do the next time something like that happens? I can see the officer saying, "Why should I rush to get there, best that will happen is I get second guessed, screamed at no matter what I do, perhaps charged, etc., for trying to save the unarmed person's life?

I'm sorry, I'm leaving this to Democratic Mayor, his police leaders, and the DA.

[kcr]

277. It's a call about someone with a knife

Cop arrives and sees someone attacking another with a knife.

So, he's supposed to stop and think about whether the victim may actually be the person with the knife, even though she's not the person with the knife? And the person with the actual knife trying to do the stabbing may not have been the person with the knife?

Well, it's some kind of thinking.

[CrackityJones75]

325. He is supposed to stop and think period!

He is to supposed to stop and shoot with innocent people there.

There is a million things that could have happened a d he shows up and shoots. I don’t think showing up and shooting is a good idea. Look at the reporting in so many news stories. How the story changes and develops. But hey show up and bang bang kill someone. Jobs done! Move on to the next one.

Bloody hell is this really the best way to handle things? This country has lost its damn mind.

[StarfishSaver]

40. Thank you, as always, for your wisdom.

[kcr]

41. Not impressed?

Link to tweet

This sure left an impression on me. I also watched the video. He saved that girl's life.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

43. Very damning photo.

I think in this case, this is a justified homicide.

[Hoyt]

44. Hey according to people here, policeman should have stood around to

assess the scene and call homicide for girl in pink.

[JI7]

52. What if she was defending herself ? isn't she the one that called the cops ?

[kcr]

55. Just because you call the cops

Doesn't mean you get to chase others around and attempt to murder them with a knife.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

61. And when the cops arrived, she should have dropped the knife

instead of trying to stab the girl in pink.

As it stands right now, this does appear to be a case of justified homicide.

[StarfishSaver]

73. Funny how a 15-year-old girl obviously in serious distress should have had the presence of mind to

drop the knife - if she even realized the cops had rolled up on - but the cop could just make split second decisions and if he was wrong, oh well, it's understandable because he was under a lot of stress ...

[ExciteBike66]

159. Just go ahead and state that you think the girl in pink should have been stabbed...

[greenjar_01]

81. The girl she is trying to stab in this image isn't even involved in the scuffle when the cops arrive

She's a good 15-20 feet away from the action.

[kcr]

83. If I remember I think she was holding a little dog

That she dropped right before the girl came at her with the knife.

[greenjar_01]

85. Oh my God, she is holding a little dog

Good Lord!

[Ms. Toad]

116. Watch the video.

The girl who was shot chased one girl toward the cop who did the shooting, then pivoted and chased the girl in pink and was in the process of swinging the knife toward the girl in pink at the moment she was shot.

Even though she was apparently the one who called the police, and even if she was entitled to use self-defense before police arrived, she was no longer entitled to use deadly self-defense once the police arrived on the scene.

[PoliticAverse]

45. If you "call for assistance against several others" that doesn't mean you can start chasing them

and stabbing them.

His "effort to find out" what was happening seems to have been interrupted by a girl with a knife trying to stab people.

Would you have let her stab the girl wearing pink?

[Pachamama]

91. +100000

Completely Agree

[Hassin Bin Sober]

147. Tamil Rice wasn't tying to stab someone. Unlike the girl shot by the cop today.

[Demsrule86]

185. The cop who killed the poor kid (Rice) should have been charged with murder...

[Ace Rothstein]

177. Not even close.

Honestly, how did you come to that conclusion?

[Demsrule86]

179. It is nothing like Tamir Rice...he had a toy gun and didn't have a weapon nor was he attempting to

to stab someone. The cop in that case should be behind bars. This case is different.

[JoeOtterbein]

5. This story made me...

...physically ill already earlier tonight. My stomach feels like it is still not done with me yet.

And my eyes can't stop crying. Again, and again, and again, etc. etc. etc. .........

[PoliticAverse]

8. The 2 people she tried to stab I'd guess felt they were in danger.

He apparently didn't fire to save his own life but to save the life of the girl she was attempting to stab.

[greenjar_01]

14. Literally thrusting a knife at her at 9:58 and onward in the OPs video

Two stabbing thrusts toward the midsection of the girl in pink/orange in the few seconds before the cop opens fire.

That's a fact. Obviously, there will be different interpretations of what those obvious stabbing thrusts should entail, etc., and some people will be sick of interpretations that don't exactly match their own, etc.

[kcr]

11. It only takes seconds to stab a person in the neck

I think this is a case where the cop may have actually saved a life.

[MontanaFarmer]

12. This is not George Floyd, this is not walter scott.

This officer made a snap judgment that if he didn't use deadly force the girl was going to kill another person. It's ugly, but it's a legitimate action in this case, in my very lay opinion. This isn't some invented lack of compliance or invented threat, she's trying to stab others with a deadly weapon.

[StarfishSaver]

15. Why did he fire 5 times

How did he know he was shooting someone who was dangerous?

How did he know the person he shot was not trying to defend herself?

How did he even know WHAT was happening less than 10 seconds after he pulled up?

Too many cops make these "snap judgments" about Black people when they would never make such judgments about people who look like them.

[Hoyt]

25. You haven't watched the video of the incident, or you wouldn't say that.

[MontanaFarmer]

27. Agreed.

Again, it's ugly, but she's going to inflict stab wounds on the girl in pink, she's in the act when the first shot hits her.

[MontanaFarmer]

26. Gun wasn't out until he saw the girl go after the girl on the ground with the knife.

She's got the girl in pink against a car, dead to rights with her knife. When he shoots the first time she's literally in the act of trying to stab the girl in the pink, who has no weapon and is pinned against the car. Yes, a white cop shot a black girl, but he did it in defense of 2 other black girls whose lives were in immediate danger. You can question the judgment but again, this isn't Derek chauvin staring blankly into the camera while he slowly murders a guy for no reason.

[Demsrule86]

180. She had a knife and was attempting to stab a girl.

[StarfishSaver]

184. So he needed to shoot her 5 times?

Police are trained to deescalate and prevent these situations - even someone trying to stab someone - without the use of lethal force. But lethal force all too often seems the first resort when dealing with people of color.

I am more than certain that if these were white kids tussling in a driveway in an affluent white neighborhood - even if one of them had a knife - the cop would not have started shooting within seconds of arriving.

[Demsrule86]

269. He wanted to make sure she couldn't kill the other girl...maybe they don't assume all the

bullets hit the person...no idea.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

16. +100. nt

[Pachamama]

39. +100000

Completely agree

Watched the full video including at slow frames. The girl who was shot came at first against the girl fallen on ground and then went after the girl in pink. The officer saved the life of girl in pink.

[StarfishSaver]

51. She had called police for help because she was being attacked

How did he know that she wasn't trying to protect herself from those other people?

We all know only white men with guns are allowed to stand their ground. So why should the cop bother figuring out who was the victim and who was the threat in this situation. Just start shooting and let God sort it out later ...

[MarineCombatEngineer]

54. So the cop was just supposed to stand there and let her stab the girl in pink?

I agree that it is frustrating with all the unjustified police shootings of POC, but that doesn't mean that this wasn't justified.

[StarfishSaver]

59. There are numerous options between "Just standing there" and putting 5 bullets into someone

They cover all of them in the Police Academy.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

63. Here's the thing,

neither of us were there, and the video was pretty damning.

[StarfishSaver]

70. The video IS very damning - in my view, it's very damning for the cop.

And you're right. Neither of us was there. But that hasn't stopped you and others from insisting that the shooting was justified based on the same information that I have.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

74. I didn't say it was justified,

I said it appears to be justified.

[StarfishSaver]

76. And I think it appears to be unjustified.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

79. See, differences of opinions.

Ain't it great.

[Demsrule86]

192. It is not damning for the cop. You show a jury that video and they will acquit because the

girl was trying to stab the other girl...it is very clear. And I hear about there were other things the cop could have done...I don't see it that way. He saved one girl's life.

[ExciteBike66]

160. Name those other options...

I want to hear what the options are when the cop is 10 feet away and the girl in black is in the act of stabbing with a knife. Maybe the cop can start singing a soothing song or break into a dance?

Seriously, stop being ambiguous and state exactly what you think the cop should have done.

[Pachamama]

166. What other options did the officer have?

Please....do tell....

[Demsrule86]

181. What other options were there? He was no close enough to stop her from stabbing the girl.

[Pachamama]

66. Where are you getting this notion that the dead girl is the one who called 911?

Watch the video...She tried to stab two different people....and had the cop not shot her in that split second decision, we would be talking about the stabbed dead girl in pink.

[AZSkiffyGeek]

153. Her aunt said she had called

I suppose we’ll learn more when the call is released.

[greenjar_01]

175. Her aunt also got her age wrong, so...

[AZSkiffyGeek]

209. True

And I’m not sure how the cop was supposed to know who called- as the moment he tries to talk to someone all hell breaks loose.

[greenjar_01]

210. I'm bracketing all the early information - including who called the police - until there's

confirmation.

[Captain Zero]

150. And what's with this guy kicking the first girl on the ground? What a punk.

Charge him with something.

[JI7]

49. Maybe the girl with the knife was defending herself . Isn't she the one

that called the Cops for help ?

[StarfishSaver]

53. Yes.

But only white men with guns can stand their ground, so it didn't matter whether she was trying to protect herself. The cop didn't care and didn't bother to assess the situation - he just started shooting.

[EX500rider]

288. "whether she was trying to protect herself." From the girl holding a small dog?

[MontanaFarmer]

57. Maybe she was, i don't know. But she's about to plunge the

Knife into the girl in the pink, is the officer supposed to let her? It's pretty clear in slow motion, she's in the act of stabbing the woman in pink. In the moment, his action is pretty justifiable.

[MoonlitKnight]

78. There are plenty of options

And unloading multiple rounds is not one of them. Nor is just watching someone get stabbed- which is the BS alternate choice being peddled.

[StarfishSaver]

86. These arguments assume that cops have absolutely no training at all except what they saw on Baretta

If they see a fight, they don't know how to break it up so they should just start shooting. They see a kid running away from them, order him to show his hands and then start shooting. They see a little boy in the park playing with a toy gun, don't bother to figure out what's going on, just start shooting. See a man in Target with an air rifle the store sells, don't bother making sure he's not just a customer, just start shooting.

They seem to think that cops aren't trained to handle any number of situations and lethal force is always supposed to be the last resort.

[MoonlitKnight]

107. Gun culture is quite pervasive.

If your only tool is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

[StarfishSaver]

111. EVERYTHING doesn't look like a nail. Just darker objects

[PoliticAverse]

115. And apparently if you have a knife, everyone looks like they should be stabbed. n/t

[wnylib]

154. I question his decision to shoot to kill, too.

I'm wondering what other actions he could have taken.

She was smaller than him and had her back to him. He could have grabbed her from behind. There are techniques for doing that. My husband worked with troubled kids who sometimes got violent so he had to take a workshop on restraining people without anyone getting hurt. He taught me some of the moves.

But, was there enough time to get to the girl with the knife before the other one got hurt? I am not excusing the cop. It's a genuine question because I can't tell from the video if he is close enough to grab the girl with the knife quickly enough.

The action between the females is pretty quick. How much time did he have to assess the situation before one person was in a dangerous position that required action? I still question his decision to shoot to kill. Even if he felt it necessary to shoot, why 5 times?

It was not a situation where talking her down was possible since she was in motion and another person was in danger.

More training on rapid action emergencies could help prevent the kill first reaction.

[StarfishSaver]

189. Training isn't the problem. They are well trained

But how they implement that training in the moment depends almost exclusively on their perceptions and assumptions - and too often, white police officers perceive Black people as more threatening than white people and assume their only option is to use deadly force when they would not do the same when faced with a white person in the same circumstances.

[ShazzieB]

300. THIS.

Thisthisthisthisthisthisthis.

This is the crux of the matter right here. I am convinced that this unconscious assumption that all all black people, regardless of their age and other physical characteristics, are highly dangerous and possess superhuman strength is at the root of why so many cops seem ready to go from O to lethal force in the blink of an eye. That's why I never assume a shooting like this was justified based on a few frames of a video.

I'm not saying this shooting wasn't justified. It MAY OR MAY NOT have been justified. We don't have all the facts yet. And given the track record of cops in this country killing poc unnecessarily, I am dismayed by the vehemence with which some people here are defending his actions. I'm not surprised that some think it was a justified shooting, but I am dismayed to see so many people in a forum for democrats and progressives ready to attack and insult those who think it might possibly be debatable.

[StarfishSaver]

302. Thank you

[Pachamama]

71. Usually people defending themselves don't go running w/ knife after multiple unarmed people

Watch the video very closely....

[StarfishSaver]

80. You know this, how?

[Pachamama]

84. Running after someone with a knife is an attack and a threat - not defense

That is a fact

[StarfishSaver]

90. And you know that people being attacked don't ever try to attack back in the heat of the moment?

There is not a "right" way for people to defend themselves when they are in the midst of a frightening or threatening situation. People defend themselves in all kinds of ways when they're terrified. I certainly think that would especially apply to a terrified 15-year-old girl.

[Pachamama]

103. You know nothing about the circumstances & are speculating that she was terrified

And whatever the circumstances were (which neither you nor I know) does not justify going running after people thrusting a knife in a lethal manner.

The girl in pink was standing out front as the officer arrived and was not being aggressive or threatening and the girl with the knife first is seen running at the girl who is seen falling to the ground (and who is further kicked by the hooded male in grey) and then the girl with knife goes after the girl in pink and is seen thrusting a knife at her. The police officer had to make a split second decision based on what was happening in an effort to save the life of someone being attacked by another with a deadly weapon.

I would say she was terrorizing not terrified

[MarineCombatEngineer]

105. +100. nt

[wnylib]

155. Why would she feel it necessary

to continue to attack in self defense after the cops arrived?

[StarfishSaver]

168. You think a hysterical 15-year-old in the middle of a very heated altercation

is supposed to have the presence of mind to realize the police have arrived, assume she was then completely safe, calm down and release the knife - all in less than 10 seconds - while a police officer didn't seem to have the presence of mind to figure out what was going on and how he could manage the situation without firing 5 shots into the girl's chest?

It's pretty interesting that untrained civilians are supposed to act rationally, calmly and with perfect logic and forethought while trained police officers who react without thinking with fatal results are given a pass because "things were happening so fast and they didn't have time to think."

[Demsrule86]

193. chasing someone with a knife who is running away is not defending yourself. This is

not like Tamir Rice or George Floyd.

[StarfishSaver]

200. It is for many people in a panic situation.

It's easy to sit at home and say quote oh she was no longer being threatened so she needed to drop her knife in that and stop running in that 10 seconds. " But people in real life, especially people is obviously stressed out and frightened as she was don't think as logically as you would from the comfort of your home.

Cops know that and they are trained to deal with that since most people they encounter are not calm, cool, and collected. But too many cops see agitated Black people as dangerous threats who need to be neutralized with lethal force on the spot when they would not see a white person in similar circumstances in the same way.

[PoliticAverse]

215. Someone in the process of trying to stab someone with a knife IS A DANGEROUS THREAT. n/t

[wnylib]

223. I have thought that, too. But that was before

I took into account that the video released for public view was an edited version. I want to hear more from witnesses before drawing conclusions. Right now I only have questions.

[PoliticAverse]

228. Did you see the video? The "editing" was the bluring of the faces of the minors....

apparently to protect their privacy. There are no cuts in the video.

[wnylib]

230. I still need to hear from witnesses.

[wnylib]

216. Totally agree that cops view and treat Black people

as if they are innately a dangerous "other, " and this is true in the general population, too. If you don't relate to peiple as fellow human beings, you don't treat them as fellow human beings.

Add to that the fact that police departments are so militarized that they are oriented toward seeing their job as an occupation force in a war.

What makes me feel especially sad for the child who was killed is that I read that she was in foster care, so she had already experienced emotional stress before this happened.

[Demsrule86]

267. The person was running away...she could have run the other way...wasn't her aunt's

house nearby? she had a knife and IMHO was about to stab the other girl. I don't know what anyone would think should be done other than stopping her.

[Demsrule86]

182. She was trying to stab an unarmed girl...so no.

[uponit7771]

162. Please stop saying this, its so horrible that the standard for accountability has to be slow motion

.... slow motion murdering a black person or clearly shooting us in the back before something is done to help the black community ... NOT ... be more affraid of the police.

"not george floyd" doesn't help whatsoever

[ShazzieB]

304. I agree.

I hear you, and I really wish white people would realize how hurtful and damaging comments like that are. Please accept my apologies for all the white people saying awful things here.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

305. You don't speak for white people here on DU,

you speak only for yourself and please, do tell us what hurtful and damaging comments.

[ShazzieB]

308. Yes, I do speak only for myself.

I speak for myself when I say that I am sorry for the hurt caused by some of the comments here, even though I'm not the one who made them.

I don't have time to list them and you shouldn't need me to do so. What I can tell you is that "not George Floyd" would be at the very top of the list.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

313. But the plain simple truth is that this is nothing like the George Floyd murder,

this was, IMHO, a justified use of deadly force, and I'll bet my pension that most of America agrees with me and those on this board who believe as I do.

Sometimes it's exactly what it seems to be, as, again, IMHO, a justified shooting.

[StarfishSaver]

315. "Most of America agreeing" does not determine whether a shooting is justified or not

And every shooting of a minority does not have to meet the "George Floyd Test" in order to be unjustified or inappropriate.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

318. You are correct,

but in this case, again, judging by the body worn camera, it appears to be a justified use of force.

[exboyfil]

22. Wait until they are done

and then file the report.

I guess that is the alternative. Definitely don't get out of the car until she drops the knife. She refuses to drop the knife, then drive away.

[BeyondGeography]

34. You can disagree with his response, but you can't say it was for no reason

Well, you can, but you wouldn’t have many takers in a court of law or public opinion:

Link to tweet

[StarfishSaver]

35. The problem is that we consistently see different responses for Black people

Cops too often assume Black people need to be neutralized with lethal force while they treat white people in the same situation very differently, thereby proving that such force is not always necessary. They consistently overreact when Black people are involved.

[Catherine Vincent]

46. Again, I agree

In this case a taser would have sufficed.

[Hoyt]

48. In this case the girl with the knife needed to be "neutralized" at that moment.

Agree with your comment in general, but not this case.

[intrepidity]

47. Was she white?

As if.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

50. She was trying to stab 2 black girls,

it would appear that the cop saved the girl in pink from being stabbed.

[dweller]

75. One would think a single shot

may have sufficed for a fusillade of 5 ...
🤔

✌🏻

[Hoyt]

89. Or maybe he would have missed with that one and the girl in pink

would have been the deceased. I do agree 4 or 5 shots should be investigated. But I’m not ready to condemn the policeman. Hope Charles Ramsey, CNN, weighs in.

I wish we didn’t have these situations, they are so sad.

[StarfishSaver]

93. 4-5 shots, "Blue Lives Matter" taunts ...

I understand if you're not ready to condemn the cop yet. It would be nice if you would also not be so quick to condemn the dead girl.

[Hoyt]

97. I did not see the Blue Lives Matter taunts, but if the policeman who shot the girl

yelled that, he’s in trouble, though probably not for apparently saving the other UNARMED girl.

Tomorrow, when I can turn up volume, I’ll listen for taunting. Can’t do it now.

[StarfishSaver]

99. His buddies did it. Taunted the witnesses as the girl still lay dead in the driveway.

It's the culture.

[Hoyt]

104. His buddies need to be fired immediately.

[dweller]

98. But in this case

It doesn’t appear to be wild shots endangering others, but 5 placed ...
1 might have de-escalated the situation ... and we wouldn’t be here now

✌🏻

[MarineCombatEngineer]

101. For all we know at this point,

this officer might have been a member of their SWAT team, and those members train, train, train on firearms.

[dweller]

112. that's a reach, as SWAT is not known as first responders to a knife fight

but evidence should come out in an investigation

✌🏻

[MarineCombatEngineer]

117. SWAT officers do routine patrol and answer calls also,

the Sheriff's office in the town I live in, their SWAT officers are also patrol officers.
It's not uncommon in police forces to have SWAT on patrol with their gear in case they're needed.

[dweller]

137. Is still a reach

unless the sleeve the trigger happy officer is wearing is what you consider SWAT gear...

Again, the investigation will tell

✌🏻

[Dan]

92. Sadly, I'm sorry that the young female is dead, but

if the officer had done any differently, he would have been guilty of neglect. I think that his reactions were pretty good from the time he got out of the car till the actual shooting.

For one post that stated that the girl in pink, could have been able to get away from the knife, that an optimistic assumption.

Sad to say, sorry the person was a teenager, but she was playing with a deadly weapon with intent.

My opinion, to have done any less - would have invited further damages.

As someone else said, not every shooting is wrongful.

[StarfishSaver]

95. Black girl trying to protect herself with a knife is immediately assumed to deserve to be shot dead

White men claiming to be protecting themselves with a gun are just standing their ground and perfectly in their rights.

[Hoyt]

102. Armed girl against an UNARMED girl. Guess the policeman should have just smoked a

cigarette and chowed down on a donut.

Everything else will come out in investigation. But right now I’m not bashing policeman or lady in pink who would be in hospital, if not morgue.

[StarfishSaver]

110. You're not bashing the cop who fired 5 shots into a 15-year-old but are bashing the girl

And please stop with the BS binary choice argument. The cop had more choices than to do nothing or to unload his gun into the girl's chest. Cops are trained for these situations and they are trained to only use lethal force when absolutely necessary. I do not believe it is absolutely necessary to use lethal force against someone wielding a knife. Cops manage every day to deescalate situations far more dire than this.

I'm willing to wait to see the outcome of the investigation and could change my mind based on that. But I am not going to automatically assume the cop was correct - I think such assumptions are foolish in light of all we've seen and learned over the years. Too many cops shoot first and ask questions (or don't even ask questions) later and expect well-meaning people to give them a pass each time. They have long ago lost any right to the benefit of the doubt. And seeing his buddies taunt those Black witnesses with "Blue Lives Matter" only confirms my reluctance to do so.

[PoliticAverse]

119. "when absolutely necessary" - like, for example, someone is about to stab someone else. n/t

[Hoyt]

126. He didn't even have 0.5 seconds to react. So far, I think he made right decision unless

Lady in pink says differently. We’ll know that soon enough. He didn’t have time to ask questions.

Again, he could have just watched the stabbing and avoided the whole situation and armchair bashing. He’d be at home tonight, taking it easy.

[Buckeye_Democrat]

121. I hope to hear the story of the girl-in-pink.

She was peacefully approaching the cop when he asked what was happening, then all hell broke loose.

The man who was later yelling at the cop about shooting a child had earlier kicked at the head of the girl on the ground who was initially attacked.

The knife can be seen in the attacking girl's right hand during slow-motion as she then went after pink-girl, highlighted against the car's tire. It fell to the pavement behind her after she was shot, and looked good-sized.

[Hoyt]

128. That's a missing piece that we need answering. I do want a thorough investigation.

[StarfishSaver]

135. Unfortunately, we won't get to hear what the dead girl has to say

[Hoyt]

203. That would also be true if the lady in pink had been killed.

[greenjar_01]

253. Girl-in-pink was also holding a small dog in her arms when she was attacked

She could not really have been less of a threat. She dropped the dog as she was attacked in order to use her arms in a defensive manner against Ms. Bryant, who was stabbing at her with a largish knife. She also turned her body away and kicked at Ms. Bryant, who continued to thrust with the knife. The dog trotted off after the shooting.

[Dan]

109. Well, in the few seconds of footage I saw,

the young woman wasn't trying to protect herself.

I must have missed the part where the Officer saw the girl protecting herself, I missed that part of the video.

She was the aggressor from the video I saw.

[StarfishSaver]

122. Or she could have been a completely hysterical and frightened kid who had been attacked

tried to protect herself with a knife, and did not have the presence of mind to say, "OK, good. They stopped coming at me, so I'll put the knife down, take a breath and calm down."

People in these situations don't behave rationally. Children in these situations definitely don't behave rationally. Assuming they respond to this kind of trigger with detachment and logic makes no sense. Police are trained to deal with these situations, including those involving out-of-control people who may pose a threat to themselves or others. The first reaction to them should not be to pump 5 bullets into their chest.

[Dan]

143. I agree with what you say, reference how she may have reacted or failed to react.

But the sad truth in this situation, the Officer in question didn't have time. Yes, they are trained to deal with violence, people with emotional issues (we hope), and crimes of various types. But what we don't have control over is TIME. There are only so many seconds that a person in that situation has to time to react to. A knife cuts through the skin/muscle like a hot knife through butter - and he didn't have the luxury of waiting.

My heart bleeds for the family, and I wonder - what did the various people at that home do to defuse the situation, if any? The girl was probably hysterical but the Officer didn't have the luxury of time to discover and hope for her rational self to kick in. In some ways, he is a victim too.

But, I do share some of your thoughts and appreciate your concerns.

I know from experience, that Time does not slow down.

[StarfishSaver]

145. I hear you

But I'd be much more willing to accept the "he didn't have time to think" if that wasn't so often the justification for shooting Black people and if cops didn't seem to have all the time in the world to deal with armed and out-of-control white people without shooting them multiple times within seconds.

And the fact that his breathren felt perfectly entitled to shoot "Blue Lives Matter" at Black witnessed while that girl still lay dead in the driveway only increases my skepticism. That context and environment cannot be ignored.

As I've said - they long ago lost any right to the benefit of my doubt.

[uponit7771]

163. +1, why couldn't a taser be used when there were so many other people standing close? Oh wait

... we get shot in those situations too.

[yagotme]

292. "(T)rying to protect herself with a knife..."

Show me the video where she was backed into a corner, surrounded by antagonists, when the cop shot her. You can't. When she decided to give up whatever "defensive" posture she was using, and began chasing other, unarmed people around while making stabbing motions with a knife, trapping one of them on top of a car, making aggressive moves, she BECAME the aggressor. Any lawyer, judge, will tell you, that retreating is defensive, attacking is offensive. She was on the offense, and that's what the cop saw as he arrived.

And, if that cop's gun only holds 5 rounds, I'll buy you a cheeseburger. ("Emptied the gun into her" )

[Captain Zero]

146. Columbus, Where? What State? Lots of states have a Columbus.

Please people. Think about how specific you might need to be...

[StarfishSaver]

149. If you were really that concerned about what state this happened in

Googling "Columbus" and "shooting" would have taken far less time than drafting this post.

[Captain Zero]

152. thank you for sharing your prodigious internety skills.

nt

[StarfishSaver]

169. You're welcome

[PatrickforB]

151. This is a close call.

On the one hand, the girl in pink was under attack by another girl with a knife. Her life was potentially in danger, and the cop just might have saved it.

HOWEVER, and it is a big however, the cop fired FIVE shots within ten seconds of getting out of the car. I mean, basically, the guy got out of the car and started shooting. Five shots is a lot of shots. The cop opened up.

With Chauvin, all you had to do was look at the video and he was clearly guilty. A no-brainer.

This, on the other hand, has some genuine gray area. The question I have to ask here is what if these people were white? This is clearly a suburb with single family homes, socioeconomically OK, but the people are black. Was race a factor in the cop opening up pretty much right after he got out of the car? I think it definitely was.

But was the cop justified in shooting? One shot, perhaps, to save the girl in pink's life. But the entire magazine? No. That is being trigger happy, adrenaline-pumped.

This begs the follow-up question as to how this officer and his colleagues have been trained. To me, while I would have to hear/see a LOT more evidence to convict the cop, were he on trial, this is very much an indictment of the 'warrior cop' mystique.

There are a whole bunch of two-bit 'trainers' who sell classes to law enforcement that promote the idea that cops are warriors, and to be successful, they must be 'willing to kill.' This type of training has got to go, and be replaced by more sensible training, for instance on how to deescalate situations like this. Militarization goes with this, and demilitarizing police and sheriffs departments is a good idea.

Then, there is the issue of oversight. Right now, the police 'police' themselves and the strong police unions ensure that bad cops get put back on the street. There is no national database, so a bad cop can always go to another city or state and get a job. And last, there needs to be much more civilian oversight, at least on an equal footing with the power of the unions, and that oversight needs to look like the people the police are policing.

We have an imbalanced system that treats people of color differently. That has to end.

But, the girl in pink may well be alive today because the cop shot her attacker. Like I said, tough call with lots of gray.

[Calista241]

212. It's not tough at all.

The girl in pink's life was in danger, and the girl attacking her had just attacked and possibly stabbed the girl on the ground as far as the cop knew in that moment. The number of shots is not material given the fact they all happened within a second or two. Now if he waited 5 minutes and then shot her a few more times, i'd agree with you.

What if he'd just shot her once and then she proceeded to stab the girl in pink several times? People have been known to do all kinds of shit after being shot. It's not like an off button. Police are taught shoot until the threat is neutralized, and that's exactly what the cop did in this case. They're not taught to shoot a little bit, see if shit's still out of control, and then shoot some more.

The time on scene is also not material. The cops showing up obviously did not stop the physical encounter that was in progress at the time they arrived.

[PatrickforB]

214. Points well taken. Not all of these shootings are unjustified.

But, the question remains: Do you think the cop would have shot so fast if the people had been white? I mean, it is easy to sit in my proverbial armchair and second guess what happened, but I'm referring to the other thread where the cops on scene, after the shooting, mocked black onlookers by saying, "Blue lives matter!"

I don't know if you saw that footage, taken on a private mobile phone, but for me that seems linked to what happened with the shooting.

[TreasonousBastard]

156. Wow! A lot of experts here who know exactly what happened and what should have been done...

What we do know is that the cops got called about a fight, and when they got there a girl was about to be knifed.

10 seconds, if it was 10 seconds, is actually a lot of time when you're pumped and trying to get a handle on the situation. Not enough, maybe, but there's a lot of training out there trying to get you to deal with such emergencies. We don't know what sort of training the cop had.

We also don't know what else was going on-- who was shouting, who was trying to get the attention of the cops...

We don't even know for sure who it was who put in the call. Could pink dress have been the aggressor and knifing her was seen as defensive?

Five shots is not entirely out of line. If he had a Glock, it shoots pretty fast and you're told over and over that one shot, even if it hits, may not stop the malefactor. And it might not hit, so you shoot until you're sure. Or run out of bullets.

Anyway, I wasn't there and have no idea, until all the facts have been digested, what happened. But it looks like pink dress' life was probably saved. Or at least a hospital stay.

[Pachamama]

167. +100000

Thank you

[WhiskeyGrinder]

170. Cops have done a great job convincing people we can't possibly live without them, and many people

are willing to pay this price for “protection.” Abolition now.

[StarfishSaver]

171. And they have convinced people - white people, mostly - to bend over backwards to give

them the benefit of the doubt while assuming the people they kill "asked for it."

Hence the "none of us were there and we don't know what happened so we can't jump to conclusions ... So until we know more, it's wrong to assume the cop did anything wrong and we should instead assume that the black girl he killed deserved to die and he had a right to kill her" ... Which is the ultimate in jumping to conclusions.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

172. Yep -- they assume that in general, the system works and when it doesn't, it's a rare

anomaly, needing only a tweak or two to really work.

[StarfishSaver]

174. Exactly

That is why people will look at cops taunting Black witnesses with "Blue Lives Matter" slogans we within feet of where a Black girl their fellow officer shot dead and say, "sure, they shouldn't have said that, but that doesn't have anything to do with whether the shooting was justified."

They want everything to be looked at in a vacuum and refuse to see the impact of systemic racism in a police department.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

176. I'd zoom out farther, to the surprise of no one who watches for my posts -- they refuse to see the

systemic racism inherent in the concept of policing itself. The white supremacy policing is built on and upholds. The way it meshes with the racism in other social services -- Ma'Khia was in foster care. So many cruel little failures that ultimately result in a cop rolling up and seeing only one outcome.

[StarfishSaver]

187. She was a fright, hysterical Black child but the cop - and plenty of DUers - saw her as an assailant

If she had been a white girl in the same situation, they would have seen her as an frightened, hysterical child and dealt with her as such.

[Hortensis]

188. The problem is that THIS incident HAS to be looked at "in a vacuum."

This officer will not be judged as one part of a whole of 235 years of murders of black people in this country alone.

Your personal evaluation, "But I'd be much more willing to accept the "he didn't have time to think" if that wasn't so often the justification for shooting Black people and if cops didn't seem to have all the time in the world to deal with armed and out-of-control white people without shooting them multiple times within seconds" will not apply when deciding if lethal force was necessary in THIS circumstance.

As of course you know. Which side -- or both -- each person comes down on when social justice and individual justice seem to conflict is defining of what that person believes in and of who that person is.

[StarfishSaver]

190. The justice system may not judge him in that context. But I will

That's why we need to change the system.

[Hortensis]

196. I believe the problem with the system is people and that

human fallibility is amply displayed in this thread alone.

I believe that if you were in a position of responsibility and accountability in one of these cases you would do your best to be fair and objective, but there are some who do not have your understanding of the principles and practice of justice and are agreeing with all these emotional indulgences without separating the conflated issues.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

251. And Keith Ellison thanked

the citizens of Minneapolis for giving him and his team the time to investigate all angles and all available facts. It's definitely the mature approach.

[Hortensis]

260. Competent, principled, and goal directed. But that's his job.

We private citizens have the luxury of acting out our moods of the moment and mostly just failing ourselves.

[Laura PourMeADrink]

263. So true!!!

[WhiskeyGrinder]

191. "The problem is that THIS incident HAS to be looked at 'in a vacuum.'"

Legally, maybe. But socially and morally, to do so is to mourn the problem without trying to solve it.

[Demsrule86]

194. Justice is served by a legal system. We can't judge anyone based on other cases...the girl had

a knife. She didn't drop it...she was just about to stab someone. It is unreasonable to blame the police in this instance unless something else we don't know about happened, but based on the video, I don't see it.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

195. Justice looks different to a lot of people.

If our legal system is built on white supremacy, is that justice? And as I say, we can certainly judge what we see morally and socially, if the legal system convinces us nothing can be done. OTOH, some people are fine letting these things happen, because the system does demand its sacrifice periodically.

[Demsrule86]

265. Floyd was convicted...that is a BFD...a cop will rot in jail for killing an unarmed black man...

I consider that justice. He is the first white cop in MN to pay such a price for his murderous actions...and I am hard pressed to think of one outside of MN who was convicted...there were a couple of cops who were convicted but the ones I saw were not white cops.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

274. If it leads to no decrease in people dying, but more cops being incarcerated, is that justice?

It may be for you. For me, it is not.

[Hortensis]

202. Well, this incident will be examined far more completely and

expertly than we are able to, so I'm trying to hold off on an opinion, though of course watching the videos invites it.

Fwiw, the George Floyd Justice in Policing Act I posted on below would change the federal standard for use of force from "reasonable" to "necessary." What that'd mean if it were the standard here I can't guess.

Looking back at mine, I see adolescence as a time of comparative insanity, and learning more about how adolescent brains work only reinforced that. They're NOT adults, and it's the job of adults to protect them from themselves. This child, under tremendous influence by her environment, will never get to grow up. That's what I know at this point.

[Demsrule86]

264. But another child will get to grow up...the video clearly shows she was in the process of

stabbing the girl in pink. The Cop did his job IMHO.

[Hortensis]

326. Yes for her. So far the experts I've heard speak to what

they can see are feeling the video tells them what they need to know to say it was justified.

A number of failures lead to this, though, including not at least training street cops in alternatives to the central kill shots. One talking head said he'd never heard of any being taught, that if the gun was used it was to be as this officer did.

This girl's supposedly an honor student, whether true or not, and was in foster care there, perhaps thrown into a situation that wasn't working. How long did it take for this situation to blow up?

Oh, well. Adolescence is a relatively dangerous period of life, and this girl one of many who won't make it safely through this year.

[EX500rider]

289. "Abolition now."

Feel free to name a country you'd like to live in with no functioning police
Somalia?
Syria?
Libya?
All great vacation spots no doubt.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

297. The reason those countries are the way they are is not for lack of police.

[EX500rider]

299. It's certainly one of the main reasons they are lawless

[WhiskeyGrinder]

301. It's not.

[EX500rider]

303. I named three countries without functioning police departments

... feel free to name your ones that are so peaceful without police

[WhiskeyGrinder]

306. Not a one has tried it in the model of abolition that fills the absence of police with the presence

of services that that mitigate the issues that require police. Why not us?

[MarineCombatEngineer]

307. And just why do you think that is? nt

[EX500rider]

310. There are no services that will eliminate all need for police

... some people are indeed evil/psychopathic or bad and want to murder or rob or steal

[WhiskeyGrinder]

311. The vast majority of crime happens because people's needs aren't being met.

If we meet those needs, crime goes down.

[EX500rider]

324. And what needs aren't being met for serial killers or rapist

[WhiskeyGrinder]

327. In the end, people are reponsible for their actions, of course. But when it comes to serial killers,

it's an extremely rare one who doesn't have an ugly childhood or untreated injury or illness in their formative years. Better childhood education, support for parents, and health care can go a really long way toward preventing serial killers, as well as improving outcomes for the general population.

Research has found several factors that can lead to a two-fold path of sexual violence in men. Men who rape generally distrust or feel angry about women and relationships, and tend to see sex as a game to win. Early childhood experiences -- such as abuse, neglect, assault -- are accurate predictors. Lack of empathy -- which must be nurtured, and childhood is the time to do it -- is another.

[EX500rider]

330. So as long as 100% of the population

... has a happy childhood and all their needs met everything will be fine huh... And we'll all have unicorns too I bet!

[SYFROYH]

198. Just a note: The cop pulls his gun after the 15-yr old swings her knife at a girl (in shorts).

When the cop arrives the 15-yr old with the knife appears to be in a face-off with the girl in shorts by the car. No physical activity. The girl in pink is standing 5+ feet away apparently watching the face-off. Then the 15-yr old appears to rush the girl in shorts with a knife.

To avoid the knife she tumbled backward. In fact, I'm not entirely sure she did avoid the knife completely. Then the 15-yr old rushes the girl in pink.

And it really does appear the 15-yr old is winding up to plunge the knife into the second girl (in pink) who is up against car and can't move away. I don't think he could have traversed that distance to catch her arm.

Is it true that if the cop had not pulled his gun and yelled, "get down", and instead tried to tackle the girl with the knife as she went from the girl in the shorts to the girl in pink, he might have prevented the need for lethal force? Maybe.

[Hortensis]

199. Spotlight's on the "George Floyd Justice in Policing Act."

The White House says this is President Biden’s top police reform priority. In this form it barely passed the house last summer and was stopped in the senate.

A few of the provisions are (and note the change from reasonable force to necessary):

Bans chokeholds and carotid holds at the federal level and conditions law enforcement funding for state and local governments banning chokeholds.

Requires that deadly force be used only as a last resort and requires officers to employ de-escalation techniques first.

Changes the standard to evaluate whether law enforcement use of force was justified from whether the force was “reasonable” to whether the force was “necessary.”

Bans no-knock warrants in drug cases at the federal level and conditions law enforcement funding for state and local governments banning no-knock warrants at the local and state level.

Additionally, reportedly one of the most controversial provisions is

“enables individuals to recover damages in civil court when law enforcement officers violate their constitutional rights by eliminating qualified immunity for law enforcement.”

Also the bill

“creates a nationwide police misconduct registry to prevent problematic officers who are fired or leave one agency, from moving to another jurisdiction without any accountability.”

[Calista241]

206. Yeah, he should have just watched the shit go down and written a report about the murder

of the girl in pink afterwards. Too bad so sad. At least then we could write if off as black on black crime instead of the racist white cop shoots underage black girl story we have going on right now. /s

[StarfishSaver]

208. Yeah - because that was the only other alternative

[Vinca]

219. What were the alternatives? In the time it would take to unholster the taser, for example,

the other girl would have been stabbed and possibly dead. If we demand cops hesitate when faced with what appeared to be a deadly attack because the shooter/knifer/assaulter is black and not white, there will be a lot of unnecessarily dead victims. Things aren't cut and dried as some seem to wish. And I would say this whether the dead girl was black, white or something in between. It's tragic, but telling cops not to act in the face of imminent danger isn't the solution. For starters, let's try to figure out why there is a generation that seems so comfortable resorting to weapons to settle their differences. Our whole culture has evolved into violence. Mass shootings every day. Threats and insults rather than solutions to problems. The girl's death is a tragedy, but at this point our entire country is a tragedy. There must be reforms to policing AND to our culture in general.

[StarfishSaver]

220. He had time to unholster his gun ...

[Vinca]

222. Tasers are notoriously unreliable to start with which is a complaint of many police departments.

Plus, if you used one and miss, it has to recharge which takes several seconds to have a second go at stopping someone. In the face of an attack that could well be deadly, I would hope a cop would not use a taser. There are no good solutions other than teaching people to resolve their differences nonviolently. Maybe that should be added to the curriculum in all schools from grade one and upward.

[StarfishSaver]

225. So if he pulled the taser and used it and it didn't work, it would be possible that someone could

get hurt with the knife. There's even a chance that it could turn out to be deadly. We can't have that, can we?

So to make sure that doesn't happen, just pull the gun and blow the girl away.

Yeah - that makes sense.

[Vinca]

227. So I take it you don't care about the other girl? She's got a life to think about, too.

[StarfishSaver]

236. Bullshit response

They both had lives to think about. Unfortunately, the cop didn't think about both of them. He just started shooting. And he put them both in danger.

I have no doubt that if the other girl had ended up catching any of the bullets, most of the people carrying on here about how he saved her life and if it weren't for him, the "maniac" with the knife would have killed her, would be insisting that her death was justified, too because she shouldn't have been fighting with the girl with the knife. And we'd be hearing all about how SHE started the altercation, what a little thug she was, why was she fighting, why didn't she just walk away, etc.

She's just being used as an excuse at this point for many of these people.

Just look at the cops at the scene taunting the Black onlookers with a chant of "Blue Lives Matter." There is no indication that the shooter cop was in any danger at all, so what's with the "Blue Lives Matter" chant? That is a racist dog whistle and in this instance it strongly indicates that this cop was part of a culture that does not value Black Lives at all.

[Vinca]

243. I give up. All I can say is if a person is about to stab you and the police show up they save your

life rather than think about whether you're black or white and what the consequences might be. If they hesitate, you die.

[StarfishSaver]

244. The cops showed up to protect the girl they shot

I would hope that if I called the cops to come protect me and when they arrived and saw me defending myself, they wouldn't within a few seconds decide that I am the danger and shoot me several times without bothering to find out what was going on.

Unfortunately, that hope would likely be misplaced given how eagerly and easily police - and the people who defend them no matter what they do - assume that people who look like me are threats who deserve to be neutralized without any thought, assessment, or discernment.

[LisaL]

317. How was she defending herself?

The girl in pink was staying outside when she came out running with a knife, after another girl who either fell or was pushed to the ground. Then she went after the girl in pink.
As to calling 911, other than rumors on the internet, I've seen nothing to suggest she was the one who called 911.

[USALiberal]

211. So obviously you think police should never shoot anyone, correct?

[struggle4progress]

213. Slo-mo seems to show:

#3 (in pink holding dog) and #5 (in street) near car halfway into driveway

four or five others beside car in driveway near garage

officer approaches

#1 (with white-horizontal-striped pants-leg fronts)
pursues #2 (with shorts) from driveway
and possibly pushes #2 onto parking

officer: hey hey get down get down

#2 rolls so head points opposite direction up street
while in motion towards #3, #1 bends over #2
with #4 (male?) is standing above #2

#1 gets up and lunges towards #3 (in pink against car holding dog)

#4 puts out right hand (possibly slashed)

knife-like silhouette visible in right hand of #1

#4 withdraws hand

#1 contacts #3 and pushes #3 into car

(#3 drops dog at some time)

#3 rolls abdomen towards car
with #1 right hand withdrawn

officer fires repeatedly

See: https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/21/us/ohio-columbus-police-shooting-15-year-old/index.html

[greenjar_01]

256. You missed #4 viciously kicking #2 on the ground!

In my view #4 (the male) is acting in concert with #1, and is not slashed. He's trying to kick the girl on the ground.

[Jirel]

221. I am APPALLED at DUers defending the cop here.

Apparently they have lost their damned minds.

1) No attempt at deescalation or finding out what's going on, when coming into a fight. Gun already drawn, looking for action. Apparently those things are just for white brawls.

2) The girl in pink was in little danger from Ma'Khia. As she had called for help, she felt she needed to defend herself. Whatever had happened at that moment, she had the knife in her hand and was swinging wildly, if at all. I've trained with knives for years. The first thing you learn - the first thing this kkkop should have learned - about people with knives, is that (a) the target is likely to get cut no matter how well they might defend, but (b) the likelihood of serious damage (hitting something vital versus needing stitches) from a knife wielded by someone just swinging it around is low, especially if the target has a chance to put distance between them. You put space between combatants if you're trying to deescalate.

3) The kkkop was putting the girl in pink in a hell of a lot more danger than Ma'Khia was. Ma'Khia might have put a few cuts on her, at the very worst. The kkkop was emptying his entire goddamned clip into Ma'Khia as she was partly between him and the girl in pink, and they were inches away, even touching, at the time. One slight miss, and she also would be dead or in surgery for a major bullet wound. Oh, and apparently he did miss - poor Ma'Khia was hit 4 times in the chest, and at least 1 bullet went elsewhere.

4) There is this thing called proportional use of force. A taser? Maybe reasonable. Emptying a clip into the chest of a youngster? That's pretty automatically a kill. One shot? Especially when the other girl was right behind her and possibly even in significant contact with Ma'Khia? Still grossly out of line. You don't try to "save" someone by putting them in much greater danger. That kkkop was out to kill Ma'Khia, not to help the girl in pink.

Finally, apparently people's worst selves are showing badly, along with their lack of empathy. Let's say YOU're at your house and get attacked. YOU grab a crow bar or shovel or knife to defend yourself. A moron kkkop responds to YOUR call for help, but sees that YOU're the one with the upper hand. Therefore YOU are now the "danger," and YOU automatically get a full clip emptied into YOUR chest without any warning or attempt to resolve what's going on. Got a problem with that now? You'd better.

[StarfishSaver]

224. Thank you!

As for your final paragraph, people here are actually claiming that, even if Ma'Khia was in danger and trying to defend herself with the knife, she should have stopped as soon as the cop rolled up. Because people in high stress situations like this always say, "Oh, good. The police are here. I'd better stop swinging, drop the knife and sit down so they know that I'm the good guy."

You are absolutely right on every front. This is outrageous and the overblown attempts to defend the cop are disgusting.

[PoliticAverse]

238. "Gun already drawn, looking for action." - why are you lying about that? The cop doesn't draw

his gun until the girl with the knife appears and attempts to stab another girl.

[Jirel]

252. Why are YOU lying about that?

Watch the video. It's about 10 seconds before she's dead on the ground. That was an immediate draw with no attempt to engage anyone or deescalate. The kid's back was to him through virtually all of it - she may not have even been aware that police were coming up on her.

[PoliticAverse]

254. Everyone should watch the video and decide if my claim that he didn't draw his gun until

she appeared with the knife and tried to stab someone is true or not.

[kcr]

266. It's 10 seconds

because that's when the girl pulls a knife and starts trying to stab the other girl. He did not immediately pull his gun and start blasting away for no reason. Sorry you're appalled, but I think the notion he should have tried other slower methods in an instant where that girl could have been dead in a heartbeat, baffling. She wan't just standing there with a knife in her hand brandishing it. She was actively trying to stab another girl.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

286. Wow!!!!

Just fucking wow!!!!!!!

[H2O Man]

247. Very interesting!

Before I retired from the mental health clinic, I was the one my co-workers depended on to provide safety when enraged individuals posed a threat. Now, each office had a "panic button" that alerted law enforcement, but in the time between hitting that and police arriving was 5 to 10 minutes. Although our policy did not allow me to do so, I would disarm and hold the enraged person until the police arrived.

Now, although I had been an outstanding amateur boxer in my youth, I wasn't the best wrestler. Yet I never once punched the person. Each time a knife was in play, I removed it from the person's hand. Then took them to the floor, and held them in a manner that caused no physical pain. And there were instances where the risk of danger to a co-worker was serious.

Throughout my career, in "community-based" conflicts, there were numerous times where I coordinated with police. In fact, when guns were at play, I was mighty happy to see law enforcement. Yet never once did a cop pull the trigger.

There was a recent case of police shooting a man in Oneonta, NY. The guy was threatening his wife and child with a knife. He slashed and stabbed the woman, and had his hand on the baby, when the police shot him. It's on film on the internet, though I will not link to it. But for those who cannot tell the differences between shit and sugar, watching the above then the Oneonta film might help.

[RANDYWILDMAN]

226. What happens if he breaks it all up with a Baton by beating them apart ? bet that gal lives

Yes something happened and it was not right, he could have chosen other safer ways to end it. maybe the tazer

[RegularJam]

235. Mindless killing.

Accepted mindless killing.

Sickening.

[Celerity]

268. No, it's a justified shooting. She's half a second away from slicing the girl in the pink to ribbons

[StarfishSaver]

270. How ridiculous

You have no idea she "was about to slice her into ribbons."

[Celerity]

271. sorry, not this time, and my bona fides on coper violence against us PoC are impeccable

This shooting is not a good vehicle to attach to in order stop the racists killings of us by the cops.

[StarfishSaver]

272. This isn't about "attaching to a good vehicle"

[Celerity]

273. some will certainly try to use it as such nt

[StarfishSaver]

275. So what?

Some try to use anything. That's not a justification for telling people to stand down when they believe an injustice has occurred.

[Celerity]

276. I simply said it was a deadly force situation, in which deadly force was used to stop that deadly

force being utilised.

I said that IMHO it was a justified use of deadly force. Nothing more, nothing less. The words 'stand down' never came out of mouth (via my typing). My opinion is not a command.

[uponit7771]

309. Justified and right thing to do are two different things

[Celerity]

314. I think the legal standard (not the moral one) is was it justified or not.

[uponit7771]

319. agreed, its just in the US we don't get the moral standard we get "Cause they could" standard

... and that pretty much is kill away.

[Celerity]

320. I do agree that deadly force is far more likely to be used on PoC than whites, and that is a massive

racial justice issue.

The US police system is out of control overall, on pretty much every level. It is broken. I do not know if it can be repaired, especially as you have tens of millions of whites who love (literally) to see PoC murdered, maimed, beaten, caged, disempowered, etc etc. I am extremely pessimistic atm.

[uponit7771]

322. +1, I remember living on base in Germany and the Military Police didn't act a damn fool like

... the civilian police because the US military had integrated generations before I was born and there was many leadership in the US military that were officers of color.

So the MPs couldn't stop a rando citizen and harass them for no good reason because that might be the son of a brigadier general or a wife of a LT Col or the niece of a Command SGT Major.

There is the place were the police forces work with the community and have a modicum of respect and service for the community.

My father retired and moved us to the inner city and the culture shock was jaw dropping, the police there sprang my best friends wrist ... he was 12.

I think the US military police have something progressive to add to the conversation in the US when it comes to working with communities

[MarineCombatEngineer]

329. On top of being a Combat Engineer,

I also did a 2 year stint with the Marine Security Forces and what you say is absolutely correct.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

287. Mindless bullshit,

Accepted mindless bullshit.

Sickening.

[Captain Stern]

246. I suppose it's a matter of perspective.

The video is short, but going by what I see in it.

I'm sad this incident happened.

If I was the father of the young lady with the knife that was killed, I would be angry at the cop.

If I was the father of the young lady being attacked by the person with the knife, I would be glad that the attacker was stopped.

What would we all be discussing if the cop had done nothing, or just yelled commands, as the young woman in pink was stabbed to death? I don't know for sure, but I doubt we'd all be commending him for his restraint.

[StarfishSaver]

249. There were many other options between shooting the girl four times and doing nothing

The problem is that too many cops use lethal force as the first instead of the last resort. And they too often use it on Black people because they see us as stronger and more dangerous than we are.

If these were white kids, that girl would not have been shot. If the girl who was shot was white and the girl in pink were black and the police shot her, we would not be hearing about how the girl in pink was a victim who deserved to be protected but that she was an innocent victim but she would be portrayed as a thug who shouldn't have been involved in this altercation and her involvement was the cause of her death, not the cop.

It never ends. And I'm sick of it.

[Captain Stern]

250. I agree with the content of your post.

I've seen what you are talking about..over, and over, over.

What I do disagree with is what you say in your post title:

You said: "There were many other options between shooting the girl four times and doing nothing"

What were some of those many options? I would like to hear what they were. From you, or law enforcement people, or anyone. What should the cop in this particular incident have done differently?

What do you suppose would have happened if the police had showed up one minute later?

[MarineCombatEngineer]

321. The length of this thread reminds me of the knock down drag out fight

about NASA bombing the moon.

It was EPIC!!!!!

[Polybius]

331. He may have saved the girl in the pink's life

She certainly looked like she was about to stab her. Perhaps he should have shot over her head to scare her though, she may have dropped the knife if he did. We'll never know.

[MarineCombatEngineer]

332. Problem with that is the bullet has to land somewhere,

and no police dept in the country allows for shooting over a suspects head.

[egduj]

333. It's a sad situation all the way around.