Why didn't the cop in Ohio use a multi-shot taser on 15 yr old girl, Ma'khia Bryant?!

[uponit7771]

Why didn't the cop in Ohio use a multi-shot taser on the 15 yr old girl, Ma'khia Bryant?!

Are people really going to make the case the 15 yr old girl is going to muscle out of multiple taser shots ?!

That doesn't sound reasonable.

EDIT: If you're going to make the case that multiple shots from a taser wouldn't have worked on a 15yr old girl do you have evidence to back that up?

EDIT: If they don't have tasers, which doesn't sound plausible, then that's furthers my point of PDs using the most lethal of force especially when it comes to non-whites

EDIT: Here's a cop being stopped by a taser shot from his partner

Yes there were options instead of most lethal force, people saying their wasn't are ignorant or starting shit, and police in America statistically take the most lethal force when it comes to people who are not white.

The fact people are justifying the most lethal force vs an escalation is a reason why Floyd is a start and not the conclusion.

MLK said one of his biggest fights is getting the moderates off the fence and this is so true when it comes to policing in this day.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

1. Tasers have killed about a 1,000 people in the past 20 years, and police can do plenty of

violence without a gun. If she had been tased and then sat on for 10 minutes and died, we'd be asking about other alternatives. The truth is, cops bring violence when they show up, and we have to come to terms whether we're okay with things getting out of hand once in awhile, or not.

[uponit7771]

5. In most cases a taser would be more than lethal than bullets? tia

[Miguelito Loveless]

10. I disagree

This is the exact kind of scenario tasers were meant for. This is going to to be ruled a "clean shoot" and will ignore the fact that the police's response is almost always escalation maximum force.

[TheBlackAdder]

30. From what I heard, she was shot within 10 seconds with no words exchanged or instructions given.

.

It's almost like that time the cops drove up and shot that boy on a swing set within two seconds.

.

[honest.abe]

43. I just watched the video I think the cop did yell "get down, get down".. before he shot.

It was a quick violent difficult situation, but shooting the girl 4 times does not seem like the correct decision here.

[TheBlackAdder]

72. Get down sounds like instructions for the crowd, Drop the knife would be for a knife wielder.

.

Acquaintances who graduated NJSP's Sea Girt training facility are taught to shoot twice, reassess threat, shoot twice.

.

[samsingh]

2. Many cops seem to be looking for an excuse to kill black people

if the girl was white, i believe she would be alive today

[Miguelito Loveless]

13. Quite probably

police tend to try and de-escalate situations when White people are involved.

[TheBlackAdder]

26. That cop looks like a 90lb weakling who got his ass kicked from elementary all through high school.

[uponit7771]

29. +1,

[Bettie]

68. I tend to agree as well

but, try to convince some of the people around here of that.

There are plenty of ways to deescalate.

He could have still shot her, but with a taser...but nope, he decided to kill her.

[Treefrog]

76. Her own neighbor, who is black, disagrees.

[Arazi]

3. Yup, or get training on disarming murderous knife wielders?

http://www.nletc.com/knife-defense-disarming

There are other options than always shooting people

[sarisataka]

4. What kind of tasers

Are issued to Columbus PD?

[uponit7771]

7. Yep, part of my point if they don't have them that's part of the reason this is 100% bullshit ...

... shooting.

Where is their money going ?!

[sarisataka]

11. Point taken

However if the officer was not properly equipped, he was forced to use what he had been given. He cannot be held responsible if that is the case.

[haele]

42. Whatever type the cop standing over her body in the picture had on his left side.

Saw the boxey shape and yellow on the handle.
But, they'll claim he was too far away, and the girl was making a stabbing motion towards the other girl. Have you seen a serious knife fight? I have, and there's a big difference between a defensive and offensive posture between the combatants, even with knives out and slashing or stabbing.
If the girl was closing or close enough to damage the other girl, four or five shots at center mass would have also potentially hit or grazed the potential victim.

I've seen knife fighters in a back ally disarmed while on Shore Patrol checking out one of the more notorious bars in Long Beach. Back in the day when most cops weren't all into the Thin Blue Lie and trained to be hair-trigger stone cold killers.
It can be done.

Haele

[sarisataka]

50. I have seen a knife fight

And have been in several- all but one being martial arts training. I also saw the video and believe the knife was being used offensively.

The girls were touching so there was a risk of hitting the other.

[MoonRiver]

6. Shoot to kill should (almost) NEVER be the first option,.

[greenjar_01]

8. Isn't her name Ma'khia Bryant?

Are you referring to a different case?

[TwilightZone]

18. Yes.

The OP is confusing two cases. Simon was killed two years ago in an accidental shooting in Texas.

[uponit7771]

22. thx

[marie999]

9. The officer did the right thing. The most important thing he could do is save the other girls life

[Miguelito Loveless]

14. He did the legally justifiable thing

There were other options, he chose escalation and maximum force.

[marie999]

20. Name one that you know for sure would have stopped her.

[uponit7771]

23. The OP is about multi-shot tasers, are you of the opinion the girl could've muscled out ...

... multiple taser shots?

tia

[marie999]

41. She was right next to the girl. Would you want to bet your daughter's life that the officer

could pull and shoot the laser before she is knifed?

[uponit7771]

63. I'm knowledgeable about taser so I would ... NO DOUBT ... take that bet

[kcr]

83. Are you a rep for the company?

[uponit7771]

106. No I no law enforcement who use them and they agree with me

[kcr]

109. Oh, that's even better n/t

[Devil Child]

104. Start a gofundme, I'll part with a few dollars to see you complete this challenge

[uponit7771]

105. Really ?! Let's not devolve the conversation into deathly threats

[Devil Child]

113. Deadly threats? Almost as if you sense the danger in your suggested policing methods

[uponit7771]

114. A taser versus bullets Yes I do and I'll stand by that that seems common sense, bullets are more ...

.... Dangerous than tasers

[kcr]

125. Do your police buddies tell you

that they've universally replaced guns with tasers in nearly all instances including in defense of lethal force, including their own self-defense while their guns collect dust? Or do they tell you that they pretty much use them mostly to get compliance in non-lethal situations?

[uponit7771]

126. of course not, they're basically saying tasers work to stop people and are less lethal bullets some

... people on this thread are arguing the opposite

[kcr]

127. You're leaving out whether they are equally as effective

If they were equally as effective and efficient at stopping people, they would effectively replace guns. That was the argument for their inclusion into police forces. But it hasn't turned out that way, has it?

Well, I decided to do a little quick research:

https://www.apmreports.org/episode/2019/05/09/when-tasers-fail

Tasers have become an essential tool for police, but how effective are they? An APM Reports investigation finds that officers in some big cities rated Tasers as unreliable up to 40 percent of the time, and in three large departments, newer models were less effective than older ones. In 258 cases over three years, a Taser failed to subdue someone who was then shot and killed by police.

https://www.npr.org/2019/06/27/729922975/despite-widespread-use-police-rate-tasers-as-less-effective-than-believed

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/taser-vs-gun-why-police-choose-deadly-force-despite-non-n656461

"Tasers are not for deadly force situations," said Eugene O’Donnell, a professor at the John Jay College of Criminal Justice. “The only time the police need to be shooting is when there is an absolute matter between life and death. It’s not a tool for apprehension.”

But I already basically knew this, as this is an area of interest.

[uponit7771]

128. Those links don't mention a 15 yr old girl, ... no either ignorant or starting shit

[kcr]

131. Those links didn't mention any exceptions

You want everyone to take the word of your cop friends over legit sources. But I'm the one starting shit.

[uponit7771]

132. We agree, here the context is a 15 yr old girl. To proffer that a 15 yr old girl would most likely

... NOT ... be flexed by a taser is ignorant.

I doesn't even make sense on its face

[kcr]

133. To deny legit sources that say tasers aren't reliable

is ignorant.

[uponit7771]

134. Chauvin's defense tried out of context test too and it didn't work, come on people ...

... if you have to remove the "15 yr old girl" part from my position then you're losing the argument.

[kcr]

135. In no way is my argument even close to the Chauvin defense

Pointing out that sources like John Jay College, of all places (seriously, look them up if you don't know) doesn't make exceptions for 15-year-olds in their assessment of tasers is in no way the same thing as the pathetic defense of Chauvin. If you have to twist other people's arguments and compare them to others that are in no way the same, maybe you're losing the argument. Also using cop buddies as sources.

[uponit7771]

136. Its out of context because those studies leave out "15 yr old girl"

[kcr]

137. I'm sure your cop buddies were careful to include them

[uponit7771]

138. Yes, cause ... that's the context here. Would a taser flex a 15 yr old girl ... most likely yes

[kcr]

140. Any choice that led to everyone alive is obviously the best outcome

But if he'd tased her and missed, or tased her and it didn't stop her, since it turns out tasers aren't as reliable, and the other girl ended up dead, then that would have been bad. I don't even like guns, and I know which option I'd chose if both were available and I or someone I loved was getting stabbed. I'd pick the gun in a heartbeat.

I'm not trying to hold up this cop as an example of a good one, or a distraction against how bad cops are. But the whole stopped clock thing, you know? I'm just perplexed at the disregard for the poor girl who was almost stabbed.

Your use of flex. Did your cop friends teach you that?

[Miguelito Loveless]

98. They pulled a gun and shot her, so my answer would be

"Yes, they could have drawn the taser and shot her with it."

[Miguelito Loveless]

97. I have had several encounters with angry people with knives

and mentally ill people with knives. My main weapon was words, as I did not have a gun. I am still alive, and so are the people I talked down. If you have a hammer, all problems are nails.

[Devil Child]

122. Are you available 24/7 to respond to knife wielding suspects in the community?

You sound like just the needed hammer for our community’s nails.

[Miguelito Loveless]

144. Really, that is your respone?

The UK police force deals with knife wielders sans guns all the time, so it can be done. Apparently since roided-up, murderously trained US cops can't, we should just accept that as reality.

Also, the police officer fired FOUR times, which is panic fire. He fired with the victim he was "protecting" in the line of fire. He could have just as easily shot the victim, and other bystanders.

[Happy Hoosier]

95. In case of an immediate mortal threat to another person...

The use of deadly force is the ONLY reasonable response. It is clear to me that his primary duty there was to protect the victim. Less lethal means are to generally be preferred, but not when someone else's life is on the line. Do you wanna be the one to explain to the victims mother that you didn't do all you could to save her because you were concerned about the attacker's well being?

[PSPS]

25. He shot her four times. He was enjoying it.

[wnylib]

103. Hyped on adrenaline or

testosterone, or both.

[PSPS]

124. With cops, it's usually steroids

[greenjar_01]

32. The BEST thing he could do is save both girl's lives

[rockfordfile]

141. I agree

[SoonerPride]

12. He wasn't interested in assessing threats, de-escalation, or anything other than killing

He was pissed off at the Chauvin verdict and emptied his clip at the first target he had.

I could be wrong.

But I doubt it.

[dewsgirl]

19. My BF told me about it in the middle of the night and

that's exactly what I said. It happened at around the exact same time the verdict was read.

[uponit7771]

24. YEP, people are saying he didn't have a taser and that's even worse !!

[greenjar_01]

33. He had a taser...there's a clear picture of him moments later with a taser in his utility belt

[TheProle]

37. No, you're wrong. (n/t)

[doc03]

53. I am guessing his magazine held many more than

4 rounds. So he didn't empty his clip. If the victim of the stabbing had been killed the COP would have been blamed for that too. I think if someone is in the process of killing another person it has to be stopped. If a civilian was there with a gun he would have been justified in the shooting.

[sarisataka]

60. So the cop was clairvoyant?

Because this happened before the verdict was read.

[SYFROYH]

74. He entered the situation with gun holstered and asked what was going on?

Last edited Wed Apr 21, 2021, 01:53 PM - Edit history (1)

There was no one throwing fists or swinging knives when he arrived.

But then something erupted between Ma'khia and a girl in shorts where Ma'khia swung the knife at her and probably would have hit her if she didn't tumble backward. That's when the gun was drawn.

As the gun was being drawn, Ma'khia went for the girl in pink and was winding up her arm with a knife in hand. The girl in pink was pressed up against the car and could not move away easily.

I think the cop rolled in soft.

[AZSkiffyGeek]

99. The girl in pink was moving to talk to the cop when it started as well

She was holding a dog and was not involved in the scuffle at all (at that point). To my eye it looks pretty calm when the cop arrives.

[kcr]

100. Yep. The notion that he immediately started blasting away for no reason is false

He didn't even start shooting when the girl went after the first victim. It was when she started trying to stab the second girl with the dog. It all happened fast, which is why the shooting happened fairly quickly after he arrived. But it happened because that's when the girl started trying to stab the girl with the dog.

[StarfishSaver]

75. His fellow police officers shouted "Blue Lives Matter" at Black onlookers shortly after the killing

But let's hear again about how we shouldn't be suspicious about this shooting.

[wnylib]

107. Reports I read said that the cops responded before

the verdict was read. Eastern time in Ohio, between 4:30 pm and 5:00 pm, the verdict was not yet known in Ohio.

I strongly suspect that those cops sympathized with Chauvin, especially since at least one of them said, "Blue lives matter" after the shooting.

But the verdict was not yet public when cops responded to this call.

[rgbecker]

15. Use of Baton was another option.

Very few lethal uses of batons even though they have been used excessively during various demonstrations across the country. Pushing people to the ground has also been very effective during these protests. There is always the "three cops on a black man technique" which has been shown to be very effective, even overly effective in some instances when used with the "knee on neck" technique.

Have to ask: If Makaila was indeed in the act of stabbing the other girls, why have those girls not shown up for medical services at the local ER? Maybe I've missed that report?

I'm a converted moderate and I'm sick of it.

[Celerity]

149. 'If Makaila was indeed in the act of stabbing the other girls'

pretty much looks to be the case to me

[Hoyt]

16. Because that would have drawn criticism too. Plus, don't think a taser would have worked in this

case.

Personally, I'd go for something like this. When police pull up and there is chaos, cut loose with one of these Sound Cannons. Of course, people complain about them too.

[uponit7771]

28. Hoyt, come on man ... a 15 yr girl would've muscled out of multiple taser shots ?! REALLY?!

... I even put it in my OP that doesn't half way sound reasonable.

damn yaw

[Hoyt]

35. No taser would have stopped her before stabbing girl in pink.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ezd5zSEUUAEkW9y?format=jpg&name=small

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EzeCymEWEAEWqL6?format=jpg&name=medium



?w=1040&quality=70&strip=all



I guess police should have just stood there and watched the two Black ladies fight, one armed with a knife.

[uponit7771]

46. No .... Hoyt, the question was rhetorical. There's LITTLE TO NO chance of a 15 yr old girl ...

... muscling out of a freakin taser man... damn

here's a cop being hit by a taser

I guess police should have just stood there and watched the two Black ladies fight, one armed with a knife.

👈🏾 What's up with this petulant assed comment?!

They can do the right thing and not have to use the most lethal force mostly on non whites, ... you know one of the reasons why their needs to be police reform?

[Hoyt]

48. A taser would not have stopped her in time, sorry.

[uponit7771]

55. Hoyt, this is false on its face ... that's not an informed position. A 15 yr old girl would most

... likely not be able to muscle out of multiple taser shots and it would've been less dangerous for the people around the shot.

No

[Hoyt]

57. A taser would not have gotten there in time, and would not have worked.

[uponit7771]

78. K, hoyt ... this even less informed.

[DetroitLegalBeagle]

47. Not if the taser worked

But that's the problem, they don't always work properly. Taser's have a very specific range in which they are most effective. Too close, and the barbs don't spread wide enough for the electrical shock to be effective. Too far and the barbs miss. Clothing and movement can prevent one or both barbs from getting good contact with the person they are being used on. Their reliability issues are widely known to the point that the company that makes them was facing criticism for falsely advertising their reliability rate. Knowing those reliability issues, when someone is about to be stabbed, do you chance it or no?

Also, multi shot tasers aren't exactly widespread. At most they have 2 shots. The most widely issued ones have only a single shot.

[uponit7771]

52. Same could be said for the gun, sigh given all things working properly most likely a 15 yr old

... girl would not be able to muscle out of multiple taser shots.

I fuckin don't believe we're talking about this here

[TwilightZone]

17. Makaila Simon was killed two years ago by her boyfriend in an accidental shooting.

You could at least get the shooting victim's name correct.

[honest.abe]

21. Agreed. He was too quick to shoot.

Clearly it was a difficult situation but there has to be alternatives to blasting away in situations like this.

[Thrill]

27. He immediately pulls his gun. They just don't value black lives

That’s just the reality of all this. He could have used several things to calm the situation. He’s a grown up. How about just trying to talking to the young lady. Let her know, he’s there to help and to calm her down.

The reality is if she was white, use of his gun would have been the last resort. They get the benefit of doubt. Black folks don’t.

[uponit7771]

36. +1,

[TheProle]

40. He saved a black life.

[Thrill]

45. We don't know that. We do know he took one

[Hoyt]

51. Yep, next time they should smoke a cigarette and let the two Black ladies fight it out, one armed.

[uponit7771]

58. This isn't sarcasm and its uncalled for. You're wrong on the facts period. Most likely taser shots

... could've stopped a 15 yr old girl and been less dangerous for the people around here.

[Hoyt]

61. Not with a knife 0.005 seconds away from the lady in pink.

[Thrill]

64. Oh please. You know damn well he wouldn't have immediately

Shot a white girl. That’s the bottom line.

[Hoyt]

69. Like I said, next time I guess they should just stand back and let them fight it out, one armed.

Police shoot white people, not proportionately to population, but they shoot more white people than minorities.

The girl with the knife a fraction of a second from the other Black girl, had to be dealt with.

Personally, I think it is time to hire more Black officers and, whenever possible, send them to such scenes. I don't like the sound of that, but it would remove the element of a white policeman.

BTW -- they just had a neighbor of the girl shot on CNN. Just caught a glimpse but it sounded like he said the policeman had to react and then went on to say that whether police could have used something else is debatable.

Here's a written report of the neighbor -- A neighbor of Ma’Khia Bryant told “New Day” that video of Ma’Khia’s death demonstrated that the teen “was the aggressor.” “I can certainly see why the police officer chose to stop her. Now, whether or not less lethal force could have been used, whether or not a Taser could have been chosen instead of a gun — I don’t know,” Ira Graham III told CNN’s John Berman. “But I do know that with Ma’Khia having that lethal weapon in her hand, she did need to be stopped.”

https://www.sbsun.com/2021/04/21/ohio-police-officer-shot-and-killed-a-black-teenage-girl-holding-a-knife-police-say-and-bodycam-video-shows/

[honest.abe]

77. Perhaps yes, up to a point.

I know there wasnt enough time but he could have tried to stop her with his baton. A stabbing isnt always lethal so the girl in pink might have been injured but not dead and the girl with the knife would probably still be alive. Blasting away 4 shots seems extreme in this case.

[Demsrule86]

146. He wasn't close enough to stop her so now you say he should allow the girl to stab another Black

girl and likely kill her...that is just nuts.

[Happy Hoosier]

94. This is a strange argument.

The argument seems to be that since we don't know for certain that the victim would have been killed, she wasn't worthy of protecting? That seems a strange argument to me.

[Wingus Dingus]

31. The police were called to stop a stabbing. They pull up and the stabber

is still stabbing as if they weren't there. If this were a white guy stabbing a screaming lady, I don't think anyone would be going out on a limb to condemn the police here. Let's be honest.

[uponit7771]

34. So you think multiple taser shots wouldn't have worked on a 15 yr old girl? tia

[marie999]

44. Not in time. She could have stabbed the other girl before the officer

could have pulled and shot the laser.

[Xoan]

54. But he had time to pull and shoot his gun. WTF?

[uponit7771]

59. RIGHT !?!?

[Wingus Dingus]

49. I don't know. I don't honestly care about all the other things he might have done--

the girl in pink is alive after a rage-filled maniac tried to stab her. Same way as I don't care that police shot an unarmed Ashli Babbitt for breaking into the place where Congresspeople were hiding. The police shot the dude that murdered 10 people in Boulder. The police are generally authorized to use force to protect others from being killed right in front of them. Had the police arrived and the perp ran away, and they shot her later, then I'd think that was bullshit. But instead, they arrived and she saw them and appeared to ignore them and continued trying to stab someone instead of the fight breaking up. That's pretty fucking insane. They weren't dealing with a rational person who would stop even in their presence. You can Monday morning quarterback all you like, but this isn't a case where I would go out on a limb to defend the shooting "victim". The real victim was saved.

[StarfishSaver]

80. Whether she was a "rage-filled maniac" or terrified, traumatized teenager trying to protect herself

depends on how you view people.

I don't see children in foster care who called the police to protect her because she was being attacked by a group of other girls as a "maniac."

But your characterization tells us a lot about your perspective.

And as for your determination of who the "real victim" was, how do you know that the girl in pink was not the instigator of the whole situation and was the reason the girl had turned into a "rage filled maniac" desperately trying to protect herself?

[Wingus Dingus]

82. Going by what I saw. You can create your own scenario and backstory

after the fact, but the police were called to deal with a stabbing that turned into a brawl right in front of them. They dealt with the unknown and the unpredictable in the heat of the moment.

[GulfCoast66]

147. With a taser you get one shot. One. And they are not accurate.

And then there is the likelihood he was too far away to allow the barbs to sink in.

Tasers are not designed to be used in life and death situations. Which this one was. That cop saved the girl in pink from severe injuries if not death. That is not a small 3 in pocket knife but a 6-8 in blade knife. If could easily reach the victims liver or heart which would have likely been fatal.

Shitty situation. But I don’t see him having a real life option.

[kcr]

56. Exactly this

This is what completely baffles me. The total disregard for the girl who was almost stabbed.

It reminds me of a murder I witnessed in front of my house. One young black man who lived a few houses down from me was murdered by another young black man who lived nearby. I heard it happen and saw the aftermath and I will never forget it. The DA declined to charge and it will never stop bothering me because I fully believe the decision was based on her lack of interest in justice for the victim. I remember the speculation at the time about how the victim must have done something to bring it on himself. I had just got home before it happened, and had seen the victim walking toward my house as I pulled in. I was probably the last person to see him alive. Some of the comments in the threads here speculating remind me of that time. There was no time for cops to even come, but if they had, could they not defend the young man I saw dead and bleeding on the street in front of my home? Or anyone for that matter. I don't believe it. I refuse to believe it.

I don't like guns and don't think anyone should have them. At the same time when someone commits an act of violence in defense of another person, I won't speak against that.

[Wingus Dingus]

65. That's an awful story--hard to get over witnessing that, I imagine.

My husband was held at gunpoint during a robbery in which he could hear a clerk being beaten/pistol whipped, but had to lie face-down on the floor and couldn't do anything. He still thinks about that, hearing the poor young man screaming and being completely powerless to help, afraid of being shot execution-style himself at any moment. (The young man was bleeding but not seriously injured, thankfully.) These situations are so highly-charged and unpredictable, even for police, and it's hard for me to condemn the attempt to protect a life. Had the girl received a fatal wound, right in front of the officer, he would probably have a hard time living with that, same as he might have a hard time living with killing a teenager. It's a hard spot to be in.

[kcr]

67. A few years later

I saw a young man who looked like the victim, walking on a sidewalk with his hands in his pockets just like he was. It was a sunny day, too, just like that day. It immediately took me back to that moment and I started crying. Something like that happening never leaves you. I'm sure it affects how I view things. And I was only a witness.

[Wingus Dingus]

70. That's a bit of PTSD, maybe, which anyone could have after that experience.

Seeing someone alive and then they are killed...tough to get past that, even if you don't know that person.

[hack89]

38. Did he have a multi-shot taser? Nt

[TwilightZone]

39. They have tasers.

A 30-second Google search would have provided you that information.

First result: https://www.dispatch.com/story/news/crime/2021/04/13/columbus-area-police-protocols-guns-tasers-confusion/7203917002/

[uponit7771]

62. So you're 100% sure the LEO on site had a taser?

[greenjar_01]

71. This is the cop who did the shooting, moments after the shooting

The yellow device attached to the front of his belt is a taser, probably an X26 or close variant.

[uponit7771]

79. FUCKIN WOW !!!

[honest.abe]

84. He should have had the taser in hand immediately after getting out of his squad car, not the gun

A domestic dispute like this among children/young adults with no guns seems the perfect scenario for a taser. I would think he violated protocol.

[kcr]

85. Tasers are wonderful, magical peace bringers

They've made police forces safer and less violent

[honest.abe]

86. They are less lethal.

[kcr]

88. Which is why they are overused the vast majority of the time

If they were really the efficient, less-lethal alternative they would have completely replaced guns. But, they didn't, because that's not what they're really for.

[honest.abe]

89. If not for a situation like this then what are they for?

[kcr]

90. For zapping people who talk back or give dirty looks

For torturing people who know their rights. For quickly ensuring complete and utter compliance.

If anything, the addition of tasers contributed to overall police brutality, including the use of guns. Why try to use words and de-escalation when you can just reach and zap? Instant gratification.

[uponit7771]

91. +1, ... and people are trying to ignore that part of my op as much as possible to the point of

... saying the taser is "slower" than a bullet

[TwilightZone]

73. Yes.

It was quite prominent in the picture that made the rounds almost immediately after the shooting.

For someone who professes to be an expert on the situation, you certainly don't seem to have much knowledge about it. You couldn't even get her name right.

[SYFROYH]

66. I'll offer one reason: There was no action when the pulled up. (devil's advocate)

When he walked up he said something like, "what's going on"?

Everyone was standing around in the driveway. Ma'khia was in a bit of a face-off with a girl in shorts. As he approached the two interacted and Ma'khia swung the knife at the girl in shorts. It was really close.

That's when he pulled his pistol.

Then Ma'khia went after the girl in pink.

There wasn't any time to switch.

Could he have pulled the taser to begin with, maybe, but there was someone within arm's reach of victims swinging a knife. It wasn't like so many other cases where someone has a knife and is 20+ feet away and not making much movement when a cop shoots center mass.

[Sympthsical]

87. Life Ain't Hollywood

The cop is easily ten feet away, the attacker is actively slashing. One cut is all it takes to take a life. Tasers are not guaranteed.

Seriously, what movie is being watched (is it on Showtime?) where everyone knows exactly how guns and tasers work. Maybe the cop could have Indiana Jones'd the knife out of her hand with a whip?

The attacker was trying to take a life. Police should shoot to neutralize an imminent deadly threat. This case isn't even a difficult one. But behold the hill, for we shall suicide ourselves upon it.

This is devolving into parody at this point.

The cop saved a life. The girl who died was attempting potential murder. But let's burn some credibility on it. It's a Wednesday.

[uponit7771]

117. Bullets are not guaranteed either he had to pump her five times where a taser would have flexed her

[Sympthsical]

129. Tasers. Don't. Always. Work.

It's not the movies. You don't fire a taser and threat disappeared. You have to have a clean shot from a reasonable distance, hope it connects in the way it must due to various factors, and then pray it actually immobilizes in time to prevent the attack (if it immobilizes at all).

She was actively slashing at someone.

Cops are trained to fire at center mass until the threat is neutralized.

Why does the black victim's life not matter here, but apparently the black would be murderer's one does?

Awfully choosy all of a sudden.

You want a "Cops Suck" narrative? No problem. Because they do suck. But to use this case for it? This feels like satire at this point, at yet I know people are being earnest. That's worrisome.

[uponit7771]

130. Neither. do. bullets ... come on people, stop. A taser would flex a 15yr old girl there's a high

... probability on that.

Some people are arguing a bad position

[kcr]

92. You know, it will really be sad if this gets turned into a promotion of tasers

The last thing police reform needs is any promotion of more Reach for the Bang Bang Thingies! Lethal or not. Tasers may not kill most of the time, but they've become the default solution for most police encounters. Their introduction to police forces was a detriment to police reform. They were even fought against in the beginning. Even if they don't lead to "confusion" They're part of the reason cops are trained to reach for their holster the minute anyone blinks. Whether it's a gun or a taser or the cop gets "confused" depends on the situation, the cop, and the training. The fight against tasers should be fundamental in the fight for police reform, along with pushing for the trend to disarm in general.

[uponit7771]

110. The point here is black people are met with more deadly force than white people

... Given similar situated situations.

It could have been mace or something else likely though but the cops here decides not to use it and pump a kid five times close range into the chest

That's like wow really?!

But yes the default shouldn't even be tasers but in this case I think the kid would have been alive

[kcr]

123. Yes, they are. That is an undeniable fact.

But two things can be true at the same time. That police do indeed use deadly force disproportionately against Black people AND in this instance, it happened to be justifiable force. Unless your argument is deadly force is NEVER justified. Unless we're going to argue that the solution to the fact that police mete out more deadly force against Black people is never using it against Black people no matter what, even if it means Black people will die as a result. I don't think anyone is actually making those arguments.

[Happy Hoosier]

93. I'll say this and leave it at that....

There was an IMMEDIATE AND MORTAL threat to another person. If that wasn't justification for the use of deadly force, then there isn't one. And if we are going to try and make that argument, we are going to lose.

[uponit7771]

115. Those knowledgeable tasers understand it would have worked in a situation

... those people who are trying to make the claim a taser wouldn't have worked or ignorant or trying to start shit

[Happy Hoosier]

119. I disagree. But nice attack.

I appreciate the not-so-oblique attack on me. Nice.

I did look into this, so I am not ignorant. Here is an example:

https://www.npr.org/2019/06/27/729922975/despite-widespread-use-police-rate-tasers-as-less-effective-than-believed

[uponit7771]

121. Don't take it personally to proffer a 15-year-old girl would most likely muscle out of a

... of a taser attack is ignorant or willfully ignorant bottom line.

End In the story

[ProfessorGAC]

143. "Muscle Out"

You've used that at least a dozen times. But,...
...you ignore anything to do with time to impact, lack of assurance of proper contact, lack of assurance the shock totally prevents a slashing motion...
Then, you have the temerity to accuse others of willful ignorance.
That's way too convenient.

[Beringia]

96. There must be so many police trainers and their training videos

that covers a lot of these scenarios. I wish they would weigh on these encounters. I suppose they would have to be retired or something to speak out.

[uponit7771]

101. I know law enforcement who say yes the taser would haveMost likely stopped at 15-

[RegularJam]

102. Seeing a lot of BS.

I'm convinced there would have only been minor injuries had the cop not have even pulled his weapon. People think about things like they see them in the movies. Rarely holds true to form in real life.

[uponit7771]

108. RIGHT !!! The likelihood it would have been a clean stab is low but the likelihood

... that the kid would be alive if she was tasered as even higher than with bullets

A lot of people on this thread are avoiding the question are being silly with it and I don't know why we're still giving this much deference to law enforcement like this

[kcr]

111. Well, hell. Even the odds of surviving a gun shot are pretty good

Something like 80% So, what are we even doing?

[uponit7771]

112. We agree one gunshot but not five times in a chest to a kid, The point of the OP is black people

...Are met with more deadly force than needed

I'm almost agreeing with you shoot the kid once and to leave it at that but fuck five times really?!

Outside of that he could have used a taser The ones who are arguing a taser wouldn't work are ignorant or they are trying to start shit

[kcr]

116. I meant if the girl had a gun vs a knife

If knives aren't that dangerous because the wounds are survivable, then by that definition guns aren't that dangerous either. But of course, that isn't actually the case. Both are pretty dangerous in reality, even if people survive the wounds more often than not.

[RegularJam]

118. Think about grabbing a night stick instead of a gun.

They were in such close proximity. Throw your night stick while running in as fast as you can. It's over in seconds. Literally. Maybe someone would have needed a couple of stitches.

That is just one possibility out of many. There are other ways to approach these things.

[uponit7771]

120. Even this 👆 !! It look like there are multitude of ways besides bullets to end this

... but for Americans and a lot of people who are not people of color it looks like shooting somebody is always the preferred

[harumph]

148. yeah, right number 22

[LisaL]

139. Tasers don't always stop someone.

So they are not advised if a person is armed and is actively attacking someone as far as I can tell.

[uponit7771]

142. Neither do bullets seeing he had to pump 5 of them into a 15 yr old girls chest. Point being

... is most likely a taser would've flexed a 15 yr old girl and those things aren't used when it comes to black people cause cops see us as more of a threat

[hardluck]

145. Good report on the effectiveness of Taser in the field

https://www.apmreports.org/episode/2019/05/09/when-tasers-fail


In the field, the work about 60-70% of the time with a variety of factors influencing their failure rate. Would some of those factors have been an issue here? I don't know. Clothing unlikely to be a factor given what she was wearing. Distance? Potential factor as based on the second bodycam footage it appears the officer is about five feet away, which is less than optimal for taser use. So there could be an issue with the dart spread depending on which model taser he used.

The other issue is the officer drew his firearm once he saw her running in his direction with the knife. Given that a knife is a lethal weapon at those ranges, that is not surprising. Once she charged the girl in pink there wouldn't have been enough time for him to transition to the taser, or to holster his pistol and attempt to go hands on with her before the girl in pink was stabbed. Would it have been a better outcome if he had done that and the women in pink was stabbed? Unknown, we might still have had a death there, or two.

What would have been better would be having two officers arrive to a person with a knife call where one could provide lethal cover and one could attempt to deescalate the situation or use less than lethal force.

[uponit7771]

151. Maddow outlined exactly my point in the OP, its good her story line goes along what I'm claimng

... bottom line is; black people are treated more harshly when it comes to lethal force than white people.

That's hands down for some reason white people are given less than lethal but for black people lethal is justified by efficacy of equipment or some other peripheral cause.

[DontBelieveEastisEas]

150. ID Required

You often would guess ages wrong.
It seemed to me that the person came into view with a rush and it was over almost before it started.

Much of your point would apply beyond the age, but you point out the age as if it is a major factor, if not the deciding factor.

It seemed that the police person saw the knife along with the close quarters chaos, and being in fear of great danger, used their dominant hand to grab the device that they train for. We could have police wear their tasers on their dominant side.

I don't know if tasers have nearly the same effectiveness as regular weapons when it comes to stopping a moment with chaos.
I suppose if it is just a button or a zipper or a loose connection that we would have to worry about, we could handle that much risk of failure.
Even then, they would have to be on the dominant side and that might cause more risk in other situations.

But, I want the innocent party protected fully at that point.