I can't wait till this Covid-19 vaccine, Covaxin, comes to the US. This is what I'm waiting for.

[peoli]

Covaxin works by teaching the immune system to make antibodies against the SARS-CoV-2 coronavirus. The antibodies attach to viral proteins, such as the so-called spike proteins that stud its surface.


Spikes

Spike

protein

gene

To create Covaxin, Bharat Biotech used a sample of the coronavirus isolated by India’s National Institute of Virology.

Killing the Virus
Once the researchers produced large stocks of the coronaviruses, they doused them with a chemical called beta-propiolactone. The compound disabled the coronaviruses by bonding to their genes. The inactivated coronaviruses could no longer replicate. But their proteins, including spike, remained intact.

The researchers then drew off the inactivated viruses and mixed them with a tiny amount of an aluminum-based compound called an adjuvant. Adjuvants stimulate the immune system to boost its response to a vaccine.

Inactivated viruses have been used for over a century. Jonas Salk used them to create his polio vaccine in the 1950s, and they’re the bases for vaccines against other diseases including rabies and hepatitis A.

Full article

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/health/bharat-biotech-covid-19-vaccine.html

[SWBTATTReg]

1. You may have to wait longer, India is going to need all of the help they can get now w/ the

covid 19 epidemic raging across India (and probably across the entire subcontinent.

My heart goes out to all, and I wish the best for all in these perilous times.

[peoli]

4. This company has applied for EUA and is planning to sell 200 million doses in the US this year

[SWBTATTReg]

7. EUA? Emerg. Use Authorization I am guessing? Thanks for the heads up. NT

[peoli]

9. Yes, emergency use authorization

[peoli]

63. I might have made a mistake...I think EUA can begin tomorrow

Fauci mentioned Covaxin on CNN today

[SWBTATTReg]

64. No sweat. Eventually it'll make its way here, just a matter of time I suspect. Take care!

[LisaL]

27. FDA don't normally like to approve vaccines that haven't had clinical trials in the US.

NT

[JI7]

43. So they want to sell to other countries instead of making sure their population

is vaccinated first .

[Hortensis]

12. +1000. The plan to sell here must have come before the sudden explosion

of India's giant second wave and is no doubt already being rethought. It has 100% efficacy against severe cases and is desperately needed right there.

I can understand pride and enthusiasm for this new vaccine, though. A huge contribution to the world.

[SWBTATTReg]

14. Amen! This is a huge contribution and a credit to India's medical field. I certainly hope that

they are reconsidering plans / redirecting their focus on more urgent needs at home.

[JI7]

44. Their scientists have always been good. The problem is corrupt govt and ignorant masses

[RockRaven]

2. "Covaxin works by teaching the immune system to make antibodies against the SARS-CoV-2 coronavirus"

How do you think other vaccines work?

[peoli]

5. I'm glad you've done your research

[Ms. Toad]

8. Covaxin is a traditional inactivated virus vaccine.

Neither the mRNA nor the adenovirus vaccines are.

(Yes - ultimately all teach the immune system to make antibodies, but they do it by different mechanisms. The mRNA is the newest (never before used as a vaccine), and the adenovrus vector is the next newest (it is used in some influenza vaccines, but it has been used less than a decade.)

[uponit7771]

15. thx !!

[womanofthehills]

17. The current mRNA vaccines have a very narrow specific focus - the spike protein

Not the entire virus. Small study (800 people total ) out of Israel last week said Pfizer vaccinated people with Covid had higher levels of African strain than non vaccinated with Covid) Therefore they need boosters for the new variants. I think I will wait for that vaccine too - it should have a wider range of protection from variants.

[LisaL]

29. Israel also has dramatically reduced numbers of infections

after vaccinating their population with Pfizer.
But you sit there and wait for something that might never come, what do I care.

[womanofthehills]

32. With my allergies, I would prefer to wait for a more traditional vaccine with more protection from

variants. Most days, my whole county has zero cases. VAERS on Friday listed over 40,000 reported cases of mild to severe anaphylaxis from the current vaccines.

Explaining how Covaxin could be effective against the variants, former chief epidemiologist of the ICMR, Dr Raman Gangakhedkar, said it targets the entire virus, and not just a few parts. “Covaxin is a whole-virion inactivated coronavirus vaccine; it uses the entire inactivated virus particle. Many other vaccines use only the spike protein to produce an immune response. The virus has multiple components, spike protein is just one of them.”

Read more at:
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/industry/healthcare/biotech/healthcare/covaxin-works-on-brazil-south-africa-strains-initial-findings-show/articleshow/81443494.cms?utm_source=contentofinterest&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=cppst

[LisaL]

36. Like I said, it might never be approved in the US.

But if you want to wait, it's no skin off my nose.

[Hortensis]

3. All vaccines are exciting and valuable. Efficacy 78% against infection,

though (100% against severe disease!), makes me wonder if it would achieve herd immunity on its own. Perhaps used along with other vaccines available to a society. It requires two doses and only normal refrigeration.

And is desperately needed right now in India.

With the more communicable new variants, my husband and I are still masking and avoiding closed public spaces even with the 91.3% of Pfizer against getting infected with Covid at all. That's nearly 1 out of 10 vaccinated still able to spread it.

[Ms. Toad]

10. They aren't 100% against severe disease.

The 5,800 breakthrough infections include 396 hospitalization and 74 deaths.

[Hortensis]

13. I read the wrong source apparently, though quite recent and

normally reputable. "100%" usually means effective rather than literal.

[Ms. Toad]

21. The initial tests (prior to emergency approval) were 100%.

More recent data indicates it is not 100%.

Frankly, it's another disagreement I have with public health pronouncements about COVID. They shouldn't have claimed it in the first place - once you make a claim it is hard to walk it back - and it makes people skeptical of anything they say later. But that was the claim before real life data came in - so now they are having to walk back another claim that was made, at least in part, to overcome resistance to vaccination (or mask wearing, in the past). Hope it doesn't backfire here, as it did with the mask backlash..

Here's a report on the more recent data. (The best report is behind a paywall)

https://www.businessinsider.com/infected-after-covid-vaccination-cdc-numbers-breakthrough-infections-2021-4

Looks to me like the death rate in breakthrough cases (1,3%) is only a bit lower than the death rate for anyone else who gets COVID (roughly 1.8% - calculated by dividing US deaths/US cases). That's about what I would have expected. It's just that the vaccine means 95% or so of people exposed don't get COVID 19.

[Hortensis]

38. Ah, thanks. I'd read that a very good body of data had been

developed for the Indian vaccine, but didn't look past that at what these terms are meaning now. Of course, right now in cities in India unvaccinated deaths are much higher than we've seen here. We're so fortunate.

Grim situation, and I'd do anything but stand in a long, crowded line to get Covaxin if I were there, and thank goodness they have it. I can't believe any will be sent overseas, but India currently has the kind of conservative populist government that's almost synonymous with fierce rejection of science and severe disease spread. So we'll see.

[TraceNC]

16. Yes. 75 million vaccinated, 0.008% got infected and less than one in one million died.

And of the 74 deaths, nine were "reported as asymptomatic or the patient died due to a cause not related to COVID-19." https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.thedenverchannel.com/news/national/coronavirus/cdc-breakthrough-rate-of-covid-19-cases-in-fully-vaccinated-people-is-0-00008%3f_amp=true

[Ms. Toad]

23. Without more detail, it is not clear what that comment means.

I find it hard to believe they were reported as connected to the breakthrogh cases if they weren't ultimately determined to be COVID 19 deaths.

But I can't find more details.

But since the vaccines were touted as 100% effective against severe disease and death, I think it is important to note that 74 deaths out of 5800 cases is 1.3% - not very far off from the number of deaths for any COVID infection.

In other words, the effectiveness in preventnig severe disease and deaths come more from preventing the disease than it does from reducing severity.

[TraceNC]

30. Also didn't mention that only 396 of the 5,800 were hospitalized.

Seems like good protection if you’re infected and test positive, and we have no idea how many asymptomatic infections there are among the fully vaccinated, so I’d say the doctors and scientists know what they’re talking about in terms of protection against severe disease. Glad I got my shots. I’ll leave it at that.

Source for the 396 number: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnbc.com/amp/2021/04/19/cdc-says-there-have-been-less-than-6000-breakthrough-covid-cases-among-fully-vaccinated-americans.html

[Ms. Toad]

33. Same number in my post.

What they tested (prior to emergency approval) was reduction in symptomatic cases.

There have been at least 3 studies now that demonstrate equivalent protecton against infecton (i.e. they are testing everyone post-vaccination in the newer studies to see if they become infected, not just the symptomatic ones - which is what they tested in the qualifying trials.)

I'm much less interested in reduction in severity of symptoms (which only provides personal protection - and a reduced drain on medical resources) than I am in reducing infection (which is how we get to herd immunity - and get out of this mess). The vaccines make me happy - but to the extent the claim of 100% effectiveness against hospitalization or death is not proven false and discourages people from believing people who made those claims - the decision to claim 100% effectiveness as to death or serious disease does not make me happy

[TraceNC]

35. Just correcting my number from above. It's 0.006%.

We are at 95,888,088 fully vaccinated now. Much better than I thought, adding to the already great vaccine news. https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#vaccinations

Some people who are fully vaccinated against COVID-19 may still get sick because no vaccine is 100% effective. Last week, CDC released data on the number of “breakthrough” infections of people who, despite being vaccinated, still tested positive for COVID-19 more than 14 days after getting their second dose of a COVID-19 vaccine. However, as of last week, there were fewer than 6,000 “breakthrough” infections reported, which represents less than 1% of people who have been fully vaccinated. Of these, approximately 30% had no symptoms at all. Two recent CDC reports1,2 show that COVID-19 vaccines help protect people who are vaccinated from getting COVID-19 and may reduce severity of illness among people who get vaccinated but still get COVID-19.
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/covid-data/covidview/index.html

[BumRushDaShow]

42. We just had a "break-through" reported in the suburban Philly area today

8 Classmates, 2 Fully Vaccinated Family Members, Test Positive for COVID in Lower Merion

By David Chang • Published April 25, 2021 • Updated 40 mins ago

An investigation is underway after eight classmates at an elementary school in the Lower Merion School District, as well as two family members who were fully vaccinated, tested positive for COVID.

A spokesperson for the district said eight students in a second grade class at Penn Valley Elementary School tested positive. The class has been quarantined since April 15 and so far officials have not seen evidence of linked or in-school transmission at Penn Valley beyond that one class, the spokesperson said.

The school district's health services team is consulting with the Montgomery County of Public Health in the investigation.

https://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/coronavirus/8-classmates-2-fully-vaccinated-family-members-test-positive-for-covid-in-lower-merion/2791754/

There is speculation that the cause was a faulty ventilation issue in that one classroom -

Link to tweet

TEXT

Matt Petrillo
@MattPetrillo
The Lower Merion School District is investigating if a faulty ventilation system led to eight second-graders testing positive for COVID-19 https://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2021/04/26/penn-valley-elementary-school-covid-19-outbreak-faulty-ventilation-investigation/
@CBSPhilly
Image
10:57 AM · Apr 26, 2021

Lower Merion School District Investigating If Faulty Ventilation Is To Blame For COVID-19 Outbreak At Penn Valley Elementary School

By Matt Petrillo
April 26, 2021 at 12:59 pm
Filed Under:Local, Lower Merion Township news, Penn Valley Elementary School

LOWER MERION TOWNSHIP, Pa. (CBS) – An investigation is underway after a COVID-19 outbreak at Penn Valley Elementary School in Montgomery County. Lower Merion School District officials say a faulty HVAC system may be to blame for the outbreak. Lower Merion School District Investigating If Faulty Ventilation Is To Blame For COVID-19 Outbreak At Penn Valley Elementary School.

It’s since been fixed, but some Penn Valley parents are still concerned for their kids. “Makes me worry a little bit just about the general parameters of what exactly if three feet and if the circulation is enough,” Penn Valley School parent Sarah Gallo said.

Parents like Sarah Gallo want answers after learning eight students in a second-grade class tested positive for COVID-19 at Penn Valley School in Lower Merion. “We hadn’t seen an outbreak like this in a single classroom,” Lower Merion School District spokesperson Amy Buckman said.

Buckman says the second-grade class was quarantined last week while the rest of Penn Valley School remained opened as officials tried to figure out what happened.What was found was a problem with the HVAC system.

https://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2021/04/26/penn-valley-elementary-school-covid-19-outbreak-faulty-ventilation-investigation/

My issue is that you had SOMEONE (or someones) who was (were) positive at all... and ended up infecting others in a school and that this happened over 10 days ago and is only now reaching our local news.

I do know there is too much thinking among the populace that a vaccine is a complete "shield" from contracting the virus and all caution is thrown to the wind. No children (other than study participants) have been vaccinated at all yet they can be carriers and unfortunately the messaging to encourage people to get vaccinated is not really being calibrated correctly.

[DontBelieveEastisEas]

39. What type of person gets COVID after being fully Vaccinated.

I suspect that if a person's immune response is poor that they might be the one that has a breakthrough case.
And since they have a weak immune system, they may have had extremely high hospitalization and death rates without the vaccine.

So, broken down by risk category of the patients with the breakthrough cases would be nice.

[Ms. Toad]

40. I doubt if there is enough data to be meaningful -

since there are only a few thousand cases. You'd have to have enough comparisons in the non-breakthrough cases to evaluate what made the difference (or even if there was a correlation).

I was always skeptical that the vaccines were reducing severity - but that was expressly what was tested. They only tested symptomatic people to determine if they had COVID. What they found was a reduction in symptomatic people (which would include a reduction in people with severe symptoms and death).

I think it is far more likely (which is being confirmed by recent data) that it reduces infection. (Now that they are testing for infection, even in the absence of symptoms.) If you reduce infection overall, you will also reduce severity and death. And - if all you are looking for is symptomatic disease you'll never find out whether it is reducing severity by reducing infection or by reducing syptoms.

[DontBelieveEastisEas]

41. Timing of up to 14 days

I wonder if you get a dose of the Virus only 2 days after your final shot, and then present with symptoms 12 days later, would they call that a breakthrough case.

I have long thought that by day 11 or 12 after the first shot, you could probably 'catch' COVID and be tested at day 15 or 20 and thereby be considered a breakthrough case. Research that looks at cases can not know when the COVID was caught, other than it was likely 3 to 14 days ago, IMO.

[TraceNC]

45. That very well could be it.

Plus, what were these people doing and where were they going? Masks? No masks? Mostly with household members? Hanging out with groups? No telling, but I wouldn’t be surprised to find out they had let their guard down. In any case, it won’t matter to those trying to sow doubt about the vaccine.

[DontBelieveEastisEas]

47. That's true

Half a Million Dead
Millions Maimed.

And still they resist the vaccine because, doubt doubt doubt.

[TraceNC]

55. Pretty disappointing to see the doubt being fueled on DU.

I’m very new here as a poster but I’ve lurked for years. I don’t think I’ve ever seen the kind of doubting of science that’s occurring with these vaccines. At least it is limited, and not rampant here.

[Ms. Toad]

48. Nope.

The breakthrough cases are only those that arise at least 2 weeks after the final shot.

The investigation form is pretty thorough - and has separate questions to sort out people who caught it up to two weeks after the final shot.

Here's some info: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/effectiveness/why-measure-effectiveness/breakthrough-cases.html

[DontBelieveEastisEas]

51. Catch the VIRUS 2 weeks before they test Positive on the first Fully Vaccinated date.

Also, I did not see any question about WHEN the person suspected they caught the Virus in the, what I think is the, investigation form.
https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/downloads/COVID-19-Vaccin-Breakthrough-Case-Investigation-Form.pdf

I did see this,
Other reasons why fully-vaccinated people might get COVID-19
It’s possible a person could be infected just before or just after vaccination and still get sick. It typically takes about 2 weeks for the body to build protection after vaccination, so a person could get sick if the vaccine has not had enough time to provide protection.


Case definition
"For the purpose of this investigation, a vaccine breakthrough case will be defined as a U.S.
resident who has SARS-CoV-2 RNA or antigen detected on a respiratory specimen collected
≥14 days after completing the primary series of an FDA-authorized SARS-CoV-2 vaccine.

An acceptable respiratory specimen includes a nasal swab, nasal wash, nasopharyngeal swab,
oropharyngeal swab, saliva, sputum, bronchoalveolar lavage fluid, pleural fluid, or lung tissue.
A case will be excluded from further investigation if: 1) they received a COVID-19
vaccine that is not authorized or approved by FDA; 2) the respiratory specimen that was
positive for SARS-CoV-2 RNA or antigen was collected

[Ms. Toad]

52. Most people are positive within 5 days of exposure -

so stretching it to 14 days before your second shot would be way outside the norm.

But the questions designed to sort out earlier infections are the ones that ask about clinical illness and clinical course from between 2 days before and 14 days after the final injection.

In addition - immunity is not on/off. You don't magically become immune at shot 2 + 14 days.

For vaccines that require two shots (the bulk of breakthrough cases reported), by the time the second shot is administered the protection from Pfizer is already 90%. I can't quickly find a similar number for Moderna - but since they are both mRNA vaccines, with similar efficacy, it is likely to be pretty close to the same.

So - infection within a couple of days before or after shot 2 is effectively a breakthorugh infection, even though it may not technically be one. In other words - 3 weeks after Pfizer #1, you have as much immunity as after you are fully vaccinated with J&J.

[Celerity]

58. depends what the vax was, and what the 2nd type of COVID was. The AstraZeneca vax is only 10.4%

effective against the B.1.351 South African variant, so basically useless against it. In a few hours my wife and I get the 2nd dose in our variant (modified for the B.1.351 variant) tweaked Moderna vax trial here in Stockholm.

[pnwmom]

54. Where did you find that about the deaths? The last thing I'd seen from the CDC

said they'd investigated all deaths and hadn't find any caused by an infection with the virus.

[Ms. Toad]

57. They haven't found any caused by the vaccine.

These are breakthrough COVID infections - and we all know infection with the virus that causes COVID can kill (upwards of half a million, so far)

Here is the data on breakthrough infections as of April 20 (from the CDC website)

COVID-19 vaccine breakthrough infections reported to CDC as of April 20
As of April 20, 2021, more than 87 million people in the United States had been fully vaccinated against COVID-19. During the same time, CDC received reports of vaccine breakthrough infections from 45 U.S. states and territories.

Total number of vaccine breakthrough infections reported to CDC 7,157
Females 4,580 (64%)
People aged ≥60 years 3,265 (46%)
Asymptomatic infections 2,078 (31%)
Hospitalizations* 498 (7%)
Deaths† 88 (1%)
*167 (34%) of the 498 hospitalizations were reported as asymptomatic or not related to COVID-19.
†11 (13%) of the 88 fatal cases were reported as asymptomatic or not related to COVID-19.

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/health-departments/breakthrough-cases.html

The data has apparently been updated since the earlier reports of 5800 breakthrough infections with 84 deaths.

[Ms. Toad]

6. This is a traditional vaccine -

and may convince those who are skeptical about long-term effects of the new(er) mRNA or adenovirus vector vaccines.

Unless you're going to continue to mask (preferably double) and never be inside unmasked with anyone other than those you live with until it arrives, I'd encourage you to get vaccinated with one of the others in the interim.

[Disaffected]

11. Waiting for something you think may be better

is a mistake. Your risk from Covid is far greater than the risk for any vaccine now available.

[womanofthehills]

20. Not a mistake if you are very careful and live way out in the country where I do

Also, my zip code in NM has had one case in 90 days. With the mRNA vaccines you will be on a rollercoaster of new variant vaccines and this vaccine sounds more protective of variants.

[LisaL]

28. It might never be approved in the US.

So you will be waiting, waiting, waiting and waiting.
mRNA vaccines do protect against variants. So I am not sure where you are getting the info that they don't.

[womanofthehills]

34. From an Israeli study of last week

Israeli data shows South African variant able to ‘break through’ Pfizer vaccine

The South African variant of the coronavirus is notably more adept at “breaking through” the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine than other variants are, Israeli scientists have found, in a first-of-its-kind real-world study.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/real-world-israeli-data-shows-south-african-variant-better-at-bypassing-vaccine/

[LisaL]

37. Yes, vaccines are less efficient against variants. Which doesn't mean they don't

work against variants. Or Israel's number of cases per day wouldn't be under a 100 cases right now.

[dsc]

26. I wasn't willing to wait

though I admit I also didn't know this existed. I see the advantage to it, but I am in a public facing occupation so I was unwilling to vaccine shop. I will say, I might have considered a week or two wait, but even that would have made me nervous.

[TraceNC]

18. Covid won't wait. Consider what's available sooner.

[Bantamfancier]

19. "Perfection is the enemy of progress." -Winston Churchill. N/T

[roamer65]

22. +1000

[Crunchy Frog]

24. That's how all vaccines work. It's just that the current ones use more advanced technology,

especially the mRNA ones.

This new one might work better for places like India.

I certainly hope that you're not holding off on getting vaccinated right now.

[LisaL]

25. Why?

It might never be approved in the US. They didn't have clinical trials in the US. There are lots of vaccines out there, not all of them are going to be approved in the US. So you will be waiting in vain.

[I_UndergroundPanther]

46. Can you get

Covaxin even though you already fully vaccinated with Moderna?

[LisaL]

50. No. You can't get covaxin because it's not approved in the US.

NT

[Iggo]

49. I ain't waitin' for shit.

It’s a fucking pandemic. I’ll take what I can get an save lives now.

[shanti]

53. Thank you!

[peoli]

60. Good for you

[Iggo]

62. ...and everyone around me.

[ecstatic]

56. Interesting. One dose or two? nt

[BannonsLiver]

59. Everyone always thinks they have some special insight no one else has.

[peoli]

61. Is that what everyone always thinks?