General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsDoes anyone understand sovereign and moorish citizens?
I'm trying to wrap my head around how bat shit crazy these people are.
(edit)
I should probably give some context, I saw a cop dealing with a guy who kept saying he doesn't need a drivers license or registration to operate a motor vehicle because he is traveling not operating in a commercial capacity. He kept waving a printed paper to the cop saying that was all he needed legally needed to show him and kept quoting, badly, from Black's Law Dictionary.
TreasonousBastard
(43,049 posts)NutmegYankee
(16,199 posts)The motivation, usually for people with legal and financial issues is to find some magical out from society. It makes them feel special and in control.
soothsayer
(38,601 posts)They dont need drivers licenses because theyre not driving, theyre traveling.
They just try to invent loopholes. Kind of like the GQP.
ripcord
(5,327 posts)He wasn't operating commercially he was traveling to he isn't required to have a driver's license, registration or insurance, even his license plates were home-made. I heard one cop tell another these sovereign citizen encounter almost always end in an arrest and he was right, since the guy refused to identify himself during a traffic investigation he was arrested and immediately began screaming about an illegal corporate entity violating his rights.
Hassin Bin Sober
(26,324 posts)Not the lack or drivers license or plate thing but giving up most of your rights once you step foot in an automobile. I dont think The Framers could have envisioned us giving up most of our rights on the road.
This privilege to drive idea has gone too far. Its the best way for cops to hassle minorities.
That said the sovereign citizens are a trip. Most are harmless but there is a scary bunch that fit in with the Posse Comitatus fringe militia types - cops are scared to death of that bunch because they like to kill cops.
Rachael Maddow did a great piece on the posse comitatus movement.
You see a lot of that streak in trumpers and the 2020 election.
keithbvadu2
(36,747 posts)They don't want to adapt to our country's culture.
Isn't that a RW talking point?
JHB
(37,158 posts)Self-centered assholes who construct fantasy worlds to justify ignoring anybody or anything who interferes with them being kings (and tyrants) of their own little worlds.
rsdsharp
(9,162 posts)under Article IV of The Articles of Confederation. She claimed as a Free Inhabitant she wasnt subject to the laws of the state in which she had been stopped for a traffic violation.
Putting aside the fact that The Articles of Confederation were replaced by the Constitution, she had conveniently overlooked the highlighted language in Article IV:
The better to secure and perpetuate mutual friendship and intercourse among the people of the different States in this Union, the free inhabitants of each of these States, paupers, vagabonds, and fugitives from justice excepted, shall be entitled to all privileges and immunities of free citizens in the several States; and the people of each State shall free ingress and regress to and from any other State, and shall enjoy therein all the privileges of trade and commerce, subject to the same duties, impositions, and restrictions as the inhabitants thereof respectively, provided that such restrictions shall not extend so far as to prevent the removal of property imported into any State, to any other State, of which the owner is an inhabitant; provided also that no imposition, duties or restriction shall be laid by any State, on the property of the United States, or either of them.
They also often cite the UCC (Uniform Commercial Code) for things to which it has no application. I dont even know where they get the traveling bullshit. They are loons.
ripcord
(5,327 posts)He was yelling something about corporate entities, trusts and names in all capital letters, claimed to be a moorish citizen and as such was outside U.S. laws but the cops kept calling him a sovereign citizen.
rsdsharp
(9,162 posts)Some claim to be sovereign citizens, some claim other stuff. They often claim not to have a name, but are representing to entity known as Joe Blow.
It all comes down to idiots trying to claim they get the rights of being in this country, but arent subject to the laws, and certainly not any restrictions.
Javaman
(62,510 posts)Beyond that they are lazy pieces of shit always trying to scam, steal and grift the system.
RockRaven
(14,958 posts)Which ought to clue them in that they are mistaken, but apparently it does not.
tulipsandroses
(5,122 posts)There should be a distinction between those who identify themselves as moorish sovereign citizens and those that follow the religion/beliefs of Noble Drew Ali. The Moorish religion or belief system is kinda along the lines of Nation of Islam being its own off shoot of Islam. Noble Drew Ali is their prophet. It must be exhausting to have their name linked to the nutty ideas of the sovereign nuts. I've seen lazy journalists do this.
Moorish Sovereigns are twisted off shoot of the Moors. Its a hodge podge of conspiracy theories, pseudo history and pseudo science.
Its also a way to scam folks.
Unfortunately, a lot of good meaning, long suffering black folks have fallen prey to some of this nonsense.
Some of the "leaders" and biggest proponents on social media, have become like those grifting preachers, promising some kind of legal salvation if only people believe their way of thinking and more importantly, buy whatever they are selling so they can get rich. Its really a shame. They have tapped into scamming gullible folks, just like slimy tv preachers.
I think most moorish sovereigns, are lost, gullible and some are just plain ol dumb. It can be quite cult like, like the QAnon nut jobs.
In fact, there was a Moorish Sovereign Cult several years ago that like with most cults, the leader was a horrific abusive monster.
The Story Behind a Black Supremacist Cult That Lived in Egyptian-Themed Compound in Rural Georgia
Dwight "Malachi" York, founder of the United Nuwaubian Nation of Moors, moved the group to "Tama-Re" in Putnam County, Georgia, in the '90s
On May 8, 2002, 300 local and federal law enforcement officers in rural Georgia raided the Egyptian-themed compound of the United Nuwaubian Nation of Moors. The cults founder, Dwight Malachi York, had been arrested hours earlier accused of molesting dozens of his followers children.
[link:https://people.com/crime/story-behind-united-nuwaubian-nation-moors-georgia-cult/|
Dave Starsky
(5,914 posts)Their motives are no more pure than that.
I frankly don't give a fuck what they do in their cars as long as they do it on roads that they build and maintain themselves.
tulipsandroses
(5,122 posts)citizens as well, which is an offshoot of Moorish religious beliefs. I thought it was important to make that distinction because all Moors are not tax dodgers or sovereigns. Furthermore, there is a problem - specific to the black community - where Charlatans identifying themselves as Moors, prey on people that don't know better. So not sure what you are addressing in my commentary.
Bucky
(53,986 posts)They think the freedom to operate your vehicle on public roads it's not subject to limitations by the harms you might do by running into other citizens.
I think they dodge their taxes too. Dig the roads, don't like paying for them. I believe Jane's Addiction defined their ideology back in the 90s
Klaralven
(7,510 posts)Hassin Bin Sober
(26,324 posts)Sovereign citizens remind me of Burt from that old TV show Soap. He would snap his fingers and claim he was invisible - even though everyone can see him.
ck4829
(35,042 posts)Let's say one "sovereign citizen" accidentally hits another "sovereign citizen" with a car.
They'd both be wanting the protections of the 14th Amendment society they resent so much while simultaneously claiming that the laws and norms of modern society don't apply to them.
canetoad
(17,149 posts)Seems to be an attempt to rope Black people into the sovereign citz movement.
Quora has a few gems:
Anyone who calls himself a Moorish sovereign citizen is just a weirdo.
By the way, the term Moorish should be a tip-off. Nobody has been called Moorish since Spaniards were known as Savilians and Castillians, and the folks from the Maghreb, go by Berber as their ethnic identity. Well, theres the Shriners, who claim to have Moorish rites, but thats a club of little old men who collect money for charity and participate in parades.
Just for the record, theres no such thing as a Berber sovereign citizen either.
https://www.quora.com/What-is-a-Moorish-sovereign-citizen?share=1
rampartc
(5,400 posts)our neighborhood has been occupied by squatters claiming to be the "washitaw nation." they find an unoccupied house and claim that some bogus paper gives them possession. takes weeks and lawyers to get rid of them.
Baitball Blogger
(46,698 posts)especially where it entails property rights. Many people give them support without seeing the bigger picture.