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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsHundreds of 'Jeopardy!' Players Demand Apology for Contestant's Alleged 'White Power' Symbol
https://www.thedailybeast.com/jeopardy-players-demand-apology-for-contestants-alleged-white-power-symbol?ref=homeHundreds of Jeopardy! Players Demand Apology for Contestants Alleged White Power Symbol
NOT OK
Jamie Ross, News Correspondent
Published Apr. 29, 2021 5:46AM ET
hlthe2b
(102,263 posts)front-burner. It is past time to put those who are actually racist a'holes in sheep's clothing on notice (and those who enable them) that the world is aware and watching. If this guy was innocently oblivious, well, he won't do it again, either.
CincyDem
(6,357 posts)Now, look at your hand.
I respectfully submit that most of us are holding up our index, middle and ring fingers a la Boy Scout salute style....maybe with your thumb and little finger touching.
If your natural, reflexive count to three hand gesture is middle, ring, and little finger a la WP...maybe theres something about your reflexes you dont want to be broadcasting on national TV.
Nothing scientific here...just a hypothesis and a little test. This group is probably the bast base to see if that hand gesture just happens by chance among folks with a bias toward inclusivity (vs WP).
rurallib
(62,414 posts)ProfessorGAC
(65,021 posts)Personally, I use the thumb & 2 fingers. It probably comes from being what we now call a point guard from age 11 to 17. It's easier to tell 3 from a distance with the thumb out, so it won't get confused with 2 or 4 fingers.
I'm not the only one. So, I don't think it's as reflexive as you suggest.
Also, that signifying of three is exactly how it's done to indicate a 3 point shot.
Watch an NBA player hitting a big three. Often, they will raise both hands with thumb & forefinger circled and the other 3 fingers up. The ref does it on every shot behind the line to indicate it's a valid 3. In today's NBA that 3 sign is displayed 50-60 times a game.
I think we all agree that a league that's 70% black is not into flashing idiotic white supremacy signs.
CincyDem
(6,357 posts)Im just an average sports guy who never played but your point about seeing three from a distance makes complete sense. And I never connected the WP with the NBA...youre 1000% right that theres no WP flashing in the court.
Still feels weird to me to count out three like that but Ill take the learning. Thanks.
Midnightwalk
(3,131 posts)Id have to think harder on terminology. Point guard is a good point but that sounds the more natural reflex is to count with index to ring (ima) and you trained to reflexively use thumb to middle (pim). Yeah both reflexive but I wonder if index to ring is actually more innate.
I agree with your other points
Response to ProfessorGAC (Reply #7)
DiamondShark This message was self-deleted by its author.
hlthe2b
(102,263 posts)without making a white supremacist gesture. YMMV
I already said he may just be obtuse. But I'm glad others are noticing. Damned glad. Sad that some feel the need to excuse it because in this time of rising White Nationalism, it is damned serious and not just some super leftist sensitivity.
And, no, I have NEVER raised middle, ring, and little finger to gesture three. Nor has anyone I've spent time with.
Cuthbert Allgood
(4,921 posts)tavernier
(12,388 posts)My first thought yesterday when I saw the three pictures of his win signals. One and two are normal. After that you have to change your entire hand configuration.
But on the other hand, if he won three Jeopardies, I doubt he is a closet MAGAt. Probably just a nerd trying to be sports cool.
Response to tavernier (Reply #31)
DiamondShark This message was self-deleted by its author.
Phoenix61
(17,003 posts)If you do a peace sign you use your thumb to hold the outside two fingers down. Reflex to keep the pinky pinched when you add an extra finger to make 3.
Ms. Toad
(34,069 posts)And holding up fingers to designate a number.
Right now, I am dealing with the remnants of cancer surgery, which make it painful to hold down the ring finger finger, while the middle finger is up - or hold up the ring finger while my pinkie is down. So, while I would count starting with my thumb, I would designate the number 3 with middle, ring, and pinkie on my dominant hand. Pretty sure I would have before surgery, as well (since those three are least awkward to hold up on my non-dominant hand).
That said, I would be holding them up in the air, not nestled against my chest - which just seems odd.
Retrograde
(10,136 posts)I've known older adults (back when I was a child) who were either raised in Europe or were children of recent immigrants - they started with the little finger. If you ever watch the time trial starts in the Tour de France, notice that the person sending off the riders counts down with his little finger as 1.
48656c6c6f20
(7,638 posts)I do the supposed wp thing occasionally. I think it started on the military. Because it can be a 3 or 8 depending how you present it. Vertical with palm toward me is a 3, horizontal palm toward me is an 8. Used to communicate on a aircraft carrier flight deck. Dude was maybe flashing whit power or not. Who knows for sure?
cinematicdiversions
(1,969 posts)Most people have no idea it is racist. I mean sure, we can use it to get a Hispanic truck driver fired for saying okay.
https://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/sdge-worker-fired-over-alleged-racist-gesture-says-he-was-cracking-knuckles/2347414/
But outside of that little bit of cancel theater, who would know. This sounds like the stupidity that Carville and others were talking about.
I mean a bunch of white man carrying Tiki torches and chanting "The Jews will not replace us" is very self explanatory. But cancelling people for trivial minutia is something else entirely
And yes, I hope the twitter mob that got the Hispanic man fired are real proud of themselves. Way to fight the man.
Buns_of_Fire
(17,175 posts)Oh wait, that's probably somebody's symbol for something, too.
i swear, you can't just casually walk around with your finger up your nose anymore without someone politicizing it.
gab13by13
(21,337 posts)any different than a Nazi salute?
Buns_of_Fire
(17,175 posts)But it's like what one judge said about pornography: "I know it when I see it."
But don't mind me. I'm still pissed that I can't use a "thumbs up" gesture anymore because of the former guy.
ProfessorGAC
(65,021 posts)...show the number 3 that way.
There's no reasonable signifying of anything with the Nazi salute other than a Nazi salute.
They're apples & oranges.
Just because a bunch of cretins appropriated a hand gesture doesn't make everyone who's been indicating 3 that way for years a bad guy.
We know the idiot bad guys use that symbol. But, not everyone who uses it is an idiot bad guy because there's actually a long standing legitimate use for that hand gesture.
I indicate 3 with the thumb & 2 fingers. That looks as like a W than the other symbol, but I can assure you that I mean in strictly as a 3.
EYESORE 9001
(25,938 posts)Thumb and pinkie finger tucked into palm.
Happy Hoosier
(7,308 posts)Cmon....
I mean I get that the symbol is coopted. And Im not even saying the dude wasnt being too cute half, but we have to avoid looking like we are jumping to conclusions.
EYESORE 9001
(25,938 posts)Just relating how I do it personally.
Happy Hoosier
(7,308 posts)I do it your way too, but my neighbor always did it the way this guy seems to have done. Dunno.
NickB79
(19,236 posts)A friend was getting married in a Catholic church, and I brought my Puerto Rican girlfriend with (now my wife). The wedding was in a smaller town in a more rural area of Minnesota, and the entire congregation was white except for her.
As the priest did his thing, he asked the church to raise a hand in a sign of blessing over the new couple. We all did. That's when I looked at my girlfriend, who had a look of HORROR on her face. I looked around, and realized it looked just like the entire church was giving a Nazi salute! Since everyone was white, I don't think it crossed anyone else's mind but her's.
She still tells that story to our friends, about the time I took her to a Klan wedding 🤣
Cuthbert Allgood
(4,921 posts)Even the damn refs are flashing the white power sign dozens of times in each game. The humanity!
USALiberal
(10,877 posts)USALiberal
(10,877 posts)brewens
(13,583 posts)This is the first I've seen on this and wasn't watching, so I know nothing about the guy.
Dr. Strange
(25,921 posts)This seems like a weird plot for a Nazi.
Okay, I'm going to flash the white power symbol on national tv. Step one: win Jeopardy three times in a row.
jcgoldie
(11,631 posts)Sent political contributions to the Trump campaign and had some questionable social media references, but I can't confirm any of that and he has since made his social media private. If its true it makes it more likely he had something nefarious in mind in my opinion, but it may be bullshit.
USALiberal
(10,877 posts)FakeNoose
(32,639 posts)... I doubt that I would have thought the guy was intentionally making a "white power" sign.
This controversy will ensure that the show-runners will be a little more vigilant from now on. It's an easy thing to edit out, and that's what they'll do.
dsc
(52,161 posts)For a time we literally banned kids from wearing red clothing (no really it happened). Why, you might ask? Well red was a gang color. It is clear from the abundant evidence, that this guy was showing 1 the 2nd night he was on, 2 the 3rd night, and 3 the 4th night to signify 1,2, and 3 wins respectively. Just like gangs might to things we all do (such as wear red), white supremacists might flash OK signs and the number 3 and we shouldn't lose our minds when people who are clearly indicating 3 also flash three fingers and/or the OK sign.
shrike3
(3,591 posts)To show he was a three-day winner." First thing that popped into my head.
Bet he'll never do that again.
NYC Liberal
(20,136 posts)hlthe2b
(102,263 posts)was the way one hailed a cab in urban areas in my great grandparents' day. Americans who travel to the Middle East are clueless about the offense they cause when they eat with their left hand. Ditto when they direct unceasing eye contact on many Navajo tribe members and certain other (especially, Native) cultures.
There are cultural symbols that differ and change over time. These cues may not matter to some, but ignoring them can cause a lot of misunderstandings at a minimum and real problems in other contexts.
Things change. Some may seem silly, but even though the once innocent "OK" symbol has been misappropriated in a manner that annoys me, I still have no desire for someone to even contemplate whether or not I have White Nationalist sympathies. YMMV
Johnny2X2X
(19,066 posts)The OK sign is no longer...Okay White Supremacists have adopted to signal White power. That's just what it means now. Maybe at some point in the future it goes back to being the Okay sign, but right now it's all about White Power and everyone should know that by now.
Ms. Toad
(34,069 posts)Where recognizing and using the OK symbol is a matter of life and death, since hand signals are the only communication tool available to most of us underwater.
And no. i'm not letting the bad guys own a useful communication tool, even when I'm above water, and my life doesn't depend on it.
Johnny2X2X
(19,066 posts)Deaf people either. The world is plenty able to divine meaning and context. No one's going to accuse a diver of White Supremacy for using an accepted hand signal in the context of diving, nor will they accuse someone using American Sign Language. But in public, and definitely on a TV show, people know what it means, it's a nod to White Power.
Ms. Toad
(34,069 posts)And that is not limited to diving and ASL.
Plenty of people use the OK symbol to mean just that: OK.
hlthe2b
(102,263 posts)Ms. Toad
(34,069 posts)(Outside of social era).
And isn't part of the context here that he was designating the number of times he'd appeared on jeopardy?
hlthe2b
(102,263 posts)no problem with giving some benefit-of-the-doubt. That said, unlike your example, or the example of those players and referees on the basketball court, it wasn't clear-cut obvious as to the intent. It was an unusual way to signal "3" for many.
Being "misunderstood" or not understanding the alternate meaning of the symbol is the "go-to" excuse used by those "actual white supremacists" when facing consequences. Just read some of the transcripts from the legal defenses of those charged after Charlottesville and the myriad of RW politicos caught by cell phone cameras at "questionable" rallies.
That said, the guy acted like an arrogant clod on the show while exploiting his "15 minutes of fame" so that likely has biased many towards thinking the worst. Fair? Probably not.
Ms. Toad
(34,069 posts)And there is always context that isn't captured in a screenshot.
I'm just pushing back against the concept that since a bunch of jerks took a prank pulled on liberals and ran with it that those jerks now own a communication tool - and that the era when the photo was captured decides whether it is an OK symbol, or a white power symbol.
I certainly agree that context is important - which means that in most instances it would be pretty impossible to sort out merely from seeing a photo (which inherently strips context out).
Devil Child
(2,728 posts)malaise
(268,993 posts)so I'm with the former contestants. I was so glad to see him lose to Dana.
soothsayer
(38,601 posts)Devil Child
(2,728 posts)Convenient timing.
Treefrog
(4,170 posts)Oneironaut
(5,494 posts)I was happy when he lost. This controversy makes anyone who signed that letter look kind of dumb, though.
MichMan
(11,920 posts)Holding up 3 fingers for Dale Earnhardt and people here thinking it was all about white power
TheProle
(2,169 posts)obamanut2012
(26,071 posts)NO ONE puts their fingers in that to denote "three."
11 Bravo
(23,926 posts)to state that NO ONE uses that hand configuration to denote the number three.
Perhaps it's a result of years of officiating rec league and HS basketball games, but I routinely display "three" just like that.
I'm crushed to learn that I am now a white supremacist.
(Also, the white power gang over at Snopes calls this claim demonstrably false.)
Behind the Aegis
(53,956 posts)Was it a WP signal. Possible, but likely not, but watching some immediately dismiss it out of hand or provide excuses, well, that has been precious.
yagotme
(2,919 posts)The "OK" for WP. Different colors, by gangs, to identify each other. Even the Nazi emblem, the swastika, was used by a Native American tribe, then used by a U.S. Army division prior to 1938 or so. Eventually, if this keeps up, no one is going to be able to make any type of hand gesture, wear any color of clothing, because it "means something" to someone else.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)waited to see if it actually was a white power gesture.
What a shame people like this in these social media days are free to act out without consequences. Hope a few are identified anyway, and it comes home to teach them a little lesson.