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Fri Apr 30, 2021, 03:36 PM

Joe Manchin announces he is opposed to DC statehood


?s=20


He knows a Constitutional amendment has zero chance and would take forever.

58 replies, 2265 views

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Reply Joe Manchin announces he is opposed to DC statehood (Original post)
TomDaisy Apr 2021 OP
MisterNiceKitty Apr 2021 #1
Silent3 Apr 2021 #3
MisterNiceKitty Apr 2021 #5
tritsofme Apr 2021 #10
MisterNiceKitty May 2021 #31
tritsofme May 2021 #32
lagomorph777 May 2021 #55
brooklynite Apr 2021 #14
Celerity Apr 2021 #29
MisterNiceKitty May 2021 #30
Celerity May 2021 #33
LanternWaste May 2021 #39
TheBlackAdder Apr 2021 #27
WarGamer May 2021 #43
maxsolomon Apr 2021 #2
Celerity Apr 2021 #23
maxsolomon Apr 2021 #24
Celerity Apr 2021 #26
maxsolomon May 2021 #38
Celerity May 2021 #42
WarGamer May 2021 #44
Celerity May 2021 #45
WarGamer May 2021 #46
Celerity May 2021 #47
WarGamer May 2021 #48
Celerity May 2021 #49
WarGamer May 2021 #50
Celerity May 2021 #53
WarGamer May 2021 #54
Celerity May 2021 #56
WarGamer May 2021 #58
aocommunalpunch Apr 2021 #4
ZonkerHarris Apr 2021 #6
TheBlackAdder Apr 2021 #28
Bleacher Creature Apr 2021 #7
hlthe2b Apr 2021 #8
SheilaAnn Apr 2021 #9
msongs Apr 2021 #11
Mad_Machine76 Apr 2021 #12
JohnSJ Apr 2021 #16
Efilroft Sul May 2021 #34
dsc May 2021 #36
Efilroft Sul May 2021 #37
Mad_Machine76 Apr 2021 #13
MustLoveBeagles May 2021 #40
Luciferous Apr 2021 #15
Dave says Apr 2021 #17
TomDaisy Apr 2021 #18
Dave says Apr 2021 #25
budkin Apr 2021 #19
Humanist_Activist Apr 2021 #20
uponit7771 Apr 2021 #21
Celerity Apr 2021 #22
Johonny May 2021 #35
David__77 May 2021 #41
Bettie May 2021 #51
bermudat May 2021 #52
gldstwmn May 2021 #57

Response to TomDaisy (Original post)

Fri Apr 30, 2021, 03:39 PM

1. Does this issue affect his own re-election chances in some way?

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Response to MisterNiceKitty (Reply #1)

Fri Apr 30, 2021, 03:46 PM

3. What it effects is his power

I think he likes being the one holding the keys to anything Democrats want to pass, and doesn't want two Democrats from DC messing that up for him.

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Response to Silent3 (Reply #3)

Fri Apr 30, 2021, 03:55 PM

5. Oh well Biden should see if he can one to two Republicans to vote on his side

Since you can't count on Sinema either.

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Response to MisterNiceKitty (Reply #5)

Fri Apr 30, 2021, 04:11 PM

10. You need 11 Republicans to break a filibuster if Manchin is opposed.

And for some reason I donít think youíll see them rallying around a proposal that will send two new Democratic senators.

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Response to tritsofme (Reply #10)

Sat May 1, 2021, 09:42 AM

31. Biden has been a sitting US Senator for decades

If he's behind this proposal (& I'm not sure that he is) I would wait and see what he can achieve.

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Response to MisterNiceKitty (Reply #31)

Sat May 1, 2021, 05:02 PM

32. DC statehood just isn't going to happen in this Congress.

The votes arenít there.

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Response to Silent3 (Reply #3)

Mon May 3, 2021, 03:39 PM

55. Exactly. His power derives from a divided Senate. And power is all he cares about.

Fuck his constituents; they're just the little people.

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Response to MisterNiceKitty (Reply #1)

Fri Apr 30, 2021, 04:19 PM

14. He's not expected to run again.

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #14)

Fri Apr 30, 2021, 09:49 PM

29. source please, TIA

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #14)

Sat May 1, 2021, 09:40 AM

30. Ah, now that's interesting

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Response to MisterNiceKitty (Reply #30)

Sat May 1, 2021, 05:09 PM

33. it would be more interesting if they backed up that claim with some evidence

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #14)

Sun May 2, 2021, 01:12 PM

39. Brunchtime gossip?

 

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Response to MisterNiceKitty (Reply #1)

Fri Apr 30, 2021, 09:18 PM

27. He's taken over the Susan Collins position and his flexing his power and seeking attention.

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Response to MisterNiceKitty (Reply #1)

Sun May 2, 2021, 05:08 PM

43. He's from a State that voted for Trump @70% pace.

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Response to TomDaisy (Original post)

Fri Apr 30, 2021, 03:44 PM

2. PR + USVI is the easier option.

clearly large enough to justify statehood.

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Response to maxsolomon (Reply #2)

Fri Apr 30, 2021, 08:07 PM

23. Those are not an easier option. The process will absolutely have to include

(for poltical reasons) a binding plebiscite favouring statehood. That outcome is in no way guaranteed. The vast, vast majority of DC, on the other hand, has demanded DC statehoood for decades.

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Response to Celerity (Reply #23)

Fri Apr 30, 2021, 08:17 PM

24. In that there is no Constitutional Amendment standing in the way

I don't think any new states are plausible, regardless. Not during the next quarter century.

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Response to maxsolomon (Reply #24)

Fri Apr 30, 2021, 08:48 PM

26. there is NO constitutional amendment requirement standing in the way of making DC a state.

Last edited Sat May 1, 2021, 02:56 AM - Edit history (1)

I cannot believe this false statement is STILL being pushed on here. I and others have thoroughly discredited this disinfo on multiple occasions, yet it keeps on rearing it's false head.

Admission to the Union Clause

Article IV, Section 3, Clause 1:

New States may be admitted by the Congress into this Union; but no new State shall be formed or erected within the Jurisdiction of any other State; nor any State be formed by the Junction of two or more States, or Parts of States, without the Consent of the Legislatures of the States concerned as well as of the Congress.


Making DC a state violates NONE of those requirements.


People get confused as there was a constitutional amendment to give DC Electoral College votes without being a state and without having voting members in Congress. The constitutional amendment WAS needed in that case, as it was a new power construct, one not delineated in the Constitution.

Finally (and this has nothing to do with DC)

but no new State shall be formed or erected within the Jurisdiction of any other State; nor any State be formed by the Junction of two or more States, or Parts of States


is NOT am absolute ban on any of that because the next part gives a way for ANY of those to actually happen

, without the Consent of the Legislatures of the States concerned as well as of the Congress.


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Response to Celerity (Reply #26)

Sun May 2, 2021, 01:06 PM

38. Thanks, but Manchin's hanging his hat on that one.

unless I misunderstand his argument, or, actually, his dismissive refusal to consider the argument.

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Response to maxsolomon (Reply #38)

Sun May 2, 2021, 05:07 PM

42. he is playing disinfo games, the constitution is clear as a freshly washed window on it

the statehood bill carves out a small federal district (with zero legal residents) to satisfy any constitutional demands

if it actually took a constitutional amendment people would not have wasted decades trying to pass the legislation

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Response to Celerity (Reply #42)

Sun May 2, 2021, 05:10 PM

44. Constitution or not, he's against it.

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Response to WarGamer (Reply #44)

Sun May 2, 2021, 05:43 PM

45. And not only is he false in his reasons, but his obstructionism is immensely harmful to our party &

the nation as a whole. Not just on DC statehood, but also on so many other of his stances. Unless he and Sinema cave and allow at least some impactful modifications of the filibuster, all of Biden and the party's non reconciliation-eligible agenda is in the ditch, including the voter rights/protections bills, racial justice/police reform bills, etc etc etc-

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Response to Celerity (Reply #45)

Mon May 3, 2021, 02:37 PM

46. Like my Dad used to say, "It is what it is."

Deal with the situation.

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Response to WarGamer (Reply #46)

Mon May 3, 2021, 02:57 PM

47. 'it is what it is' is usually capitulation, resignation, and acceptance of defeat

IF we do not somehow put into place impactful modifications of the filibuster, then most of Biden and the party' non-reconciliation included agenda will be dashed upon the rocks of Rethug obstructionism. Biden can but do only so much via Executive Orders. The voter rights/protections bills alone not being passed would be a massive systemic blow.

Also, I have not even (I so hope Manchin and Sinema do NOT have the nerve nor stones to even go here) dealt much with the possibility that even reconciliation is potentially in serious jeopardy. On at least that, I think Manchin and Sinema will be simply beaten down and cave in due to combined force of the rest of the Party. IF they actually do go there, as say nope, no reconciliation other than extremely limited, micro targeted legislation, then Biden will likely be a one term POTUS. Again, I am nowhere near that level of pessimism on at least that specific thing.


Deal with the situation.

Gaming it out (pardon the pun), IF they do not cave and the filibuster rules stays as they are now, I am all ears as to what you would do to 'deal with it'. The bills are not going to magically pass themselves, as they will never come to a vote. What are your plans/suggestions?

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Response to Celerity (Reply #47)

Mon May 3, 2021, 03:02 PM

48. Deal with it means passing less controversial legislation.

Background checks, ObamaCare safeguards, Tax policy, SS reform, Infrastructure...

ALL can find bipartisan support

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Response to WarGamer (Reply #48)

Mon May 3, 2021, 03:08 PM

49. Highly, highly doubtful that we get 10 Rethugs to cross lines on most of those, and what about the

most important of all, the voter bills and the racial justice/police bills?

ZERO chance we get to cloture on those.

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Response to Celerity (Reply #49)

Mon May 3, 2021, 03:10 PM

50. DC, HR1 and Police stuff is dead.

Don't waste time on it.

Work where the fruit is.

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Response to WarGamer (Reply #50)

Mon May 3, 2021, 03:32 PM

53. If they are, we and the nation are in truly dire straits, we will very likely get smashed in the

midterms, and 2024 is on grill. IF things go truly pear shaped, and Manchin and Sinema end up being the chief or only cause of it, then they will go down in history as the two most hated Dems since Dixiecrat days. I truly hope they do not go there.

DC, HR1 and Police stuff is dead.

Don't waste time on it.

Work where the fruit is.



Other than DC statehood, this strikes me as being far too flippant and dismissive of the potential disastrous fallout. You also seem to be placing far more faith in the Rethugs than I do. They hold most of the cards in your scenario, thanks in large part to Manchin and Sinema. The Rethug voters will NOT punish them (the Rethug Senate) for being super-obstructers. They will vibrate in wicked excitement, cheer on the voter suppression, and will turn out in waves in 2022 to try and kneecap Biden via taking back Congress.

As a game theory aficionado, surely you can see the approaching multivariate systemic risk we are potentially facing.

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Response to Celerity (Reply #53)

Mon May 3, 2021, 03:33 PM

54. I still believe good governance wins elections.

Pass laws, make life better, get seniors off of poverty, make the rich pay their fair share... all doable before '22

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Response to WarGamer (Reply #54)

Mon May 3, 2021, 03:39 PM

56. hard to pass laws when most things of import that aren't reconciliation-eligible will not see a vote

you seem to be whistling past the graveyard on that

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Response to Celerity (Reply #56)

Mon May 3, 2021, 10:58 PM

58. They can negotiate with Mitch.

You lay out a list of gun control regulations... agree to make it just background checks if he allows vote... stuff like that.

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Response to TomDaisy (Original post)

Fri Apr 30, 2021, 03:52 PM

4. LMAO

Dudeís predictable as ever.

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Response to TomDaisy (Original post)

Fri Apr 30, 2021, 03:56 PM

6. Of course he is. It would make him irrelevent.

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Response to ZonkerHarris (Reply #6)

Fri Apr 30, 2021, 09:23 PM

28. THIS! 👍 Manchin is doing this to hold onto the power and attention he craves. Self-Serving Act!

.



.

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Response to TomDaisy (Original post)

Fri Apr 30, 2021, 03:56 PM

7. So he wants to change the rules in the middle of the game in a way that disadvantages only DC?

I'm so tired of this guy.

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Response to TomDaisy (Original post)

Fri Apr 30, 2021, 03:58 PM

8. He's one of ours, but...

I don't have to like him. Still, I tolerate many a vegetable I don't particularly like, either.


As they say in the South, he makes me want to "smack him upside the head" to knock some sense into him. Sigh...

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Response to hlthe2b (Reply #8)

Fri Apr 30, 2021, 04:05 PM

9. He may have a "D" behind his name but he isn't "one of ours" by any stretch. n/t

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Response to TomDaisy (Original post)

Fri Apr 30, 2021, 04:15 PM

11. it is not necessary to have a constitutional amendment to admit a new state.... nt

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Response to msongs (Reply #11)

Fri Apr 30, 2021, 04:18 PM

12. Yeah

I was just about to say.......

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Response to msongs (Reply #11)

Fri Apr 30, 2021, 04:23 PM

16. Exactly. How do you think Alaska and Hawaii became states

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Response to JohnSJ (Reply #16)

Sat May 1, 2021, 05:23 PM

34. Or West Virginia being carved out of Virginia in the middle of the Civil War.

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Response to Efilroft Sul (Reply #34)

Sat May 1, 2021, 07:03 PM

36. actually that only was legal due to the war

and there is a colorable case that for at least some of the state it wasn't legal. But when VA sued to get those parts back the answer was basically shut up you were rebelling.

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Response to dsc (Reply #36)

Sat May 1, 2021, 09:40 PM

37. Yep. I suppose I should've added that DC's entry to the Union would be less dubious than WV's.

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Response to TomDaisy (Original post)

Fri Apr 30, 2021, 04:19 PM

13. At this point

can we just assume he's opposed to EVERYTHING- unless he says otherwise?

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Response to Mad_Machine76 (Reply #13)

Sun May 2, 2021, 01:16 PM

40. Yes

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Response to TomDaisy (Original post)

Fri Apr 30, 2021, 04:22 PM

15. I'm so sick of Manchin

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Response to TomDaisy (Original post)

Fri Apr 30, 2021, 04:25 PM

17. I wonder what the Republicans got on him

I can think of no other reason for his bizarre behavior.

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Response to Dave says (Reply #17)

Fri Apr 30, 2021, 07:14 PM

18. ego. my state might be little but I'm a big man!

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Response to TomDaisy (Reply #18)

Fri Apr 30, 2021, 08:27 PM

25. Given the pressured nastiness of his replies

I think it must be more than that.

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Response to TomDaisy (Original post)

Fri Apr 30, 2021, 07:44 PM

19. ENOUGH

We'll get just as much done with him gone as we will right now, because he's literally blocking EVERYTHING.

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Response to TomDaisy (Original post)

Fri Apr 30, 2021, 07:51 PM

20. He's not this dumb, he is lying, he has other reasons to oppose DC statehood...

 

I'm sure they cannot be articulated in polite company.

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Response to TomDaisy (Original post)

Fri Apr 30, 2021, 07:52 PM

21. We'll see if he goes back on his word right now it doesn't look positive

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Response to TomDaisy (Original post)

Fri Apr 30, 2021, 07:56 PM

22. A Constitutional Amendment is NOT needed to make DC a state.

That is a false premiss. I have documented this multiple times here. Sigh.

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Response to TomDaisy (Original post)

Sat May 1, 2021, 06:55 PM

35. I'm my tired of this creep scale. Joe's at 9 out of ten

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Response to TomDaisy (Original post)

Sun May 2, 2021, 03:46 PM

41. That is a white supremacist position.

...

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Response to TomDaisy (Original post)

Mon May 3, 2021, 03:14 PM

51. Not even a tiny bit surprised?

Seriously, does this surprise anyone anywhere?

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Response to TomDaisy (Original post)

Mon May 3, 2021, 03:31 PM

52. Shocker

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Response to TomDaisy (Original post)

Mon May 3, 2021, 04:25 PM

57. What does he want now?

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