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Millions Are Saying No to the Vaccines. What Are They Thinking?
Link to tweet
Derek Thompson
@DKThomp
Tens of millions of Americans—including 60 percent of young Republicans—say they'll refuse the COVID vaccine.
I spoke to 11 of them. I asked them where their views came from and what might change their minds.
Here's what they told me:
Millions Are Saying No to the Vaccines. What Are They Thinking?
I asked several people why they were refusing to get vaccinated. Here’s what they told me—and how we might be able to change their mind.
theatlantic.com
5:50 AM · May 3, 2021
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/05/the-people-who-wont-get-the-vaccine/618765/
Several days ago, the mega-popular podcast host Joe Rogan advised his young listeners to skip the COVID-19 vaccine. “I think you should get vaccinated if you’re vulnerable,” Rogan said. “But if you’re 21 years old, and you say to me, ‘Should I get vaccinated?’ I’ll go, ‘No.’”
Rogan’s comments drew widespread condemnation. But his view is surprisingly common. One in four Americans says they don’t plan to take the COVID-19 vaccine, and about half of Republicans under 50 say they won’t get a vaccine. This partisan vaccine gap is already playing out in the real world. The average number of daily shots has declined 20 percent in the past two weeks, largely because states with larger Trump vote shares are falling off the pace.
What are they thinking, these vaccine-hesitant, vaccine-resistant, and COVID-apathetic? I wanted to know. So I posted an invitation on Twitter for anybody who wasn’t planning to get vaccinated to email me and explain why. In the past few days, I spoke or corresponded with more than a dozen such people. I told them that I was staunchly pro-vaccine, but this wouldn’t be a takedown piece. I wanted to produce an ethnography of a position I didn’t really understand.
The people I spoke with were all under 50. A few of them self-identified as Republican, and none of them claimed the modern Democratic Party as their political home. Most said they weren’t against all vaccines; they were just a “no” on this vaccine. They were COVID-19 no-vaxxers, not overall anti-vaxxers.
*snip*
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Hoyt
(54,770 posts)Some still think the threat is minimal. It's almost laughable. Glad we are vaccinated.
Stuart G
(38,726 posts)....Like swimming in an area full of hungry sharks...(who haven't had anything to eat in a very long time) and thinking that is OK. That is very stupid,but.......................................
............................................... ...NOT AS STUPID AS THESE PEOPLE ARE!!!!
Freddie
(10,101 posts)The author comes to the conclusion that the best way to persuade the reluctant is to remind them that being vaccinated will help prevent the elderly and vulnerable from getting sick. That’s going against the #1 RWNJ philosophy: if it doesn’t affect me DIRECTLY, who gives a shit.
crickets
(26,168 posts)my take was that the author was not trying to get people to think of everyone's elderly relatives. He was reminding them of their own elderly and vulnerable family members and friends. That it gave them pause is a good thing, though it shows that for some of them this was a concept they hadn't thought about much. Sad.
Ms. Toad
(38,607 posts)something along the lines of "Good, let them kill themselves off," they are displaying the same lack of thinking about secondary harm.
I can't even count how many such posts I've responded to, reminding them that the person they don't care about will be spreading COVID to my daughter when she waits on them at Starbucks, to my elderly parents in their extended care community, to me when they pop up in my classroom, etc. That kind of "I'm/you're only hurting my/yourself" attitude isn't the exclusive property of the Republicans.
ETA: I didn't have to go far beyond your post to see it in this thread.
DFW
(60,158 posts)Have vaccination cards for those who are vaccinated. Have a national register for those who consciously refuse to get vaccinated.
For those who consciously refuse vaccination, they should be refused treatment if they contract it. I'm serious.
These people are making a voluntary statement that their lives are not worth saving. So don't. Save our limited
facilities and resources for those who DO care if they get sick. Those who are unlucky to get Covid-19 despite
vaccination--treat them. Those who want/wanted vaccination, but were so far unable to get it, and fall victim to
Covid-19? Treat them. But those who feel there is no need for them to get vaccinated (and have no legitimate medical
reason not to), should not be allowed to change their minds if they fall victim to their own stupidity. Let them ask
Tucker Carlson to treat them.
lagomorph777
(30,613 posts)They will deserve to die.
From your keyboard to God's PED.
I_UndergroundPanther
(13,369 posts)marie999
(3,334 posts)without the medical care they need. That will look good in the ads the Republicans use in 2022 and 2024. Why don't we ask President Biden how he feels about letting people die without medical care.
DFW
(60,158 posts)I just say they have no right to demand medical care over those who tried not to get the virus, and that in the case of limited resources to treat those who fall ill to it, they have no right to expect that treatment. By refusing vaccination, they are actively stating their right to not only get sick (that is their right, granted), but make others sick (that is not their right, ever).
Maybe that is not enough to warrant incarceration for assault with a deadly weapon (in the 1980s, some were jailed for consciously giving others AIDS, if you want a precedent), but I find it more than grounds enough to refuse such people treatment if they had a chance to take preventive measures and laughed it off.
marie999
(3,334 posts)What about a doctor who doesn't believe in abortions and a doctor who performs them is brought in after being shot? If he lets him die he won't kill any more "babies".
DFW
(60,158 posts)I'm taking about someone committing the equivalent of murder and suicide, not refusing treatment to someone afflicted against their will.
former9thward
(33,424 posts)crickets
(26,168 posts)I understand the frustration and anger, but punishment by withholding care is not the way.
DFW
(60,158 posts)I cannot accept that one who refused protection for themself, much less others, can demand treatment before one infected involuntarily. I cannot advocate such selfishness under any circumstances.
DFW
(60,158 posts)It took a drastic attitude on the part of the refuse-to-get-vaccinated to bring me to this point of view. But a deliberate willingness to expose one's self as well as others to death, as far as I am concerned, negates what, in any other case, should the right of anyone to be treated.
roamer65
(37,950 posts)While I would not deny them treatment, it would be non-priority palliative care. People who have a solid medical reason for not being vaccinated and the vaccinated “breakthrough” cases would be first priority.
I would also give insurance companies the right to deny coverage for the condition if there were no solid reason for a person not getting vaccinated. The cost would come out of the persons own pocket and I would go after assets to recover the costs.
scrabblequeen40
(335 posts)The sooner, the better for the rest of us.
bluestarone
(22,135 posts)DEMAND it on ALL transportation industries. (when fully FDA approved that would be a good start)
tavernier
(14,435 posts)No flights, no cruises, etc.
And all staff of public schools to prevent outbreaks.
Already I know employers of private businesses who insist on their employees getting vaccinated. We managed a resort in the Keys for many years and always insisted on (and paid for) our employees to get yearly flu shots, because once tourist season started everyone would get ill. It sure decreased the amount of sick days after we started doing that.
RobinA
(10,478 posts)I got vaccinated because I kept being afraid I would give it to somebody. This doesn't seem to work for everybody. I'm an essential worker and have worked every workday of COVID. I find, also, that a lot of people who have been sick in the past year and four months believe they've had COVID with no real proof, and therefore don't need the shot.
I'm a proponent of making life more difficult for the unvaccinated. That way they experience the logical consequences of not vaccinating in the middle of a pandemic. Right now, I, the vaccinated, have to make adjustments for the unvaccinated. I still have to wear my mask, many events still don't take place. We need to start saying, OK, if you don't want to be vaccinated, fine, but you can't do stuff where you might infect someone.
I_UndergroundPanther
(13,369 posts)But one of my friends is putting off getting vaccinated. She has bought into a few conspirasies.
Her sister( not biological) got really sick from the vaccine and may lose her job due to the side effects.
It has spooked her.
I asked her if her fears were worth infecting maybe killing her parents or kids or getting put on a vent?
I told her I took the shot and my reaction was not so bad.
She changed the subject.
She talks all day about how the controlling crazy magats are so scared and she pities them because they are human beings blah,blah,blah...
She just refuses to see how her fears are controlling her too.
She claims she has no fear..but her fears may lead to death.
I just can't forgive her selfish fears regarding the vaccine.
I tried.
maxsolomon
(38,686 posts)Can you explain that one more?
Because she missed work with flu-like symptoms and her employer doesn't have sick leave?
I_UndergroundPanther
(13,369 posts)Job situation is.
I think she's making excuses. Embellishing so her vaccine hangups look legit.
Anyway that's her reason and I think she's looking for an excuse to be paranoid.
Don't know this 100% but I suspect it.
maxsolomon
(38,686 posts)Teachers are allowed to get sick.
You have patience of a saint; I'm really glad I have zero deniers in my life.
Ms. Toad
(38,607 posts)I earned 1.25 days a month, had enough built up to spend a full month in the hospital and still have over 100 when I left teaching after 11 years.
. . . On the other hand, we also had a few very short-sighted teachers who treated sick days as vacation days and never had any banked when they needed them. (I refused to contribute my 100+ days to the community bank because by and large the people who needed them weren't those with catastrophic illnesses. They were the ones who used every sick day the month in which it was received.) So if she's in that category . . . no sympathy for her.
womanofthehills
(10,988 posts)Vaccine Adverse Events Reporting Systems you can read about thousands of reports of serious side effects. Although the majority of people have no side effects - a small percentage die and have serious side effects.
NickB79
(20,335 posts)It operates on an honor system.
https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2017/may/11/bill-zedler/bill-zedler-insists-program-doesnt-collect-wide-ra/
McGee: "Yes. It’s not a system to prove causality. It’s a system to track data and then the physicians or researchers at the CDC go and determine causality after that. It is not a system that could determine causality, it’s not."
For example, someone reported, and had it accepted, that the flu vaccine turned them into the Incredible Hulk. It was only removed after he blogged about it, and was then contacted and asked for permission to remove it from their system.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Laidler
Anyone who cites VAERS as a reliable source on vaccine side effects, especially in this day and age with millions of anti-vaxxer nutjobs given unlimited access to post to it, is a moron.
maxsolomon
(38,686 posts)But I was more curious why side effects would cause someone to lose their job.
JHB
(38,178 posts)Even if individuals get it more from other right-wing sources, it's still the high-capacity propaganda pipeline of FOX that feeds into the others.
DFW
(60,158 posts)Being inFOXicated shields you from reality, empathy and scruples.
Stuart G
(38,726 posts)In this thread...:https://www.democraticunderground.com/100215395850
......post number 13....spread the term...to everyone...
brooklynite
(96,882 posts)First, Fox doesn't change liberals into conservatives (or QANON adherents), it simply reinforces beliefs they already have.
Second, anti-vaxxers can be both right-wing (anti-Government) and left-win (anti-"Big Pharma"
Stuart G
(38,726 posts)that kind of approves of these ideas....A "news network" that gives approval to right wing .."beliefs"
Yes, "Fox News" claims to be ..NEWS......Is that correct?
JHB
(38,178 posts)So this isn't about general anti-vaxx beliefs, but the skewed nature of being a "COVID-19 no-vaxxer."
With only 11 people it's hardly a scientific poll, but for most of the views outlined reflect the sort of "no big deal" line pumped out for a year by Bullshit Mountain and its sister peaks in the Excrement Range. Even for non-viewers, it creates the background lighting that colors every discussion.
BannonsLiver
(20,561 posts)They think they’re more clever than most people and have some special insight no one else has. They’re both arrogant and incredibly dumb which is a bad combination.
I_UndergroundPanther
(13,369 posts)I was talking about upthread..is desperate to be seen as unique and she's not all that brilliant. She does not understand scientific method,and a lot of other things and she makes decisions with her emotions too much.. I told her she was not dumbas she used to think she was stupid and was down on herself about it but she seems to have added that to her quest to be unique and her head has swollen regarding it. She's average intelligence.
And that's the last thing she'd ever accept about herself is her averageness,and mediocrity. All of us have averages and mediocrity in something but not everybody builds thier whole identity on avoiding and denying it.
And she thinks she already had covid and she's full of shit about that.
She's being stupid.
womanofthehills
(10,988 posts)The lab that advertises in my area claims Medicare will pay. My friend had Covid a yr ago, and has tested 4 times that she still has antibodies from natural infection.
Johonny
(26,130 posts)the problem is there were people that make money selling anti-VAX agenda for years now so there's a ready made market for this stuff.
Tree Lady
(13,269 posts)With the variants, I think as this becomes more common they will change their minds.
Deep State Witch
(12,707 posts)1. It's experimental.
2. It's not fully approved by the FDA. (FDA could fix that easily)
3. I'm pregnant
4. Big pharma
5. I've already had COVID and it was just like the flu.
gulliver
(13,953 posts)The private sector will keep the pressure on. People who are vaccinated will be preferred (as customers and workers). That will be enough to get us to herd immunity imo.
Johnny2X2X
(24,174 posts)The GOP is all about Me Me Me! These people only think of things in terms of their selves, and even then they're still deluded. No one of them talked about the possibility that they'll give it to someone else who will die from it.
maxsolomon
(38,686 posts)Last edited Mon May 3, 2021, 10:03 PM - Edit history (1)
It doesn't have to be this large.
Figures they trust need to be out front in a PR campaign. For instance, I follow a Free-Funk Bass Player, Jamaladeen Tacuma, who is appealing to his fellow Muslims to get the vaccine and put aside their suspicions based on racial history.
But for Cons, I have no idea who they'd trust any more. Hannity?
On edit: I read the article. Absolute selfish churlishness.
Wingus Dingus
(9,173 posts)other people who might not be fine" crowd. They either don't know, or don't care, how public health works or how diseases spread and mutate. It's all about me, myself and I.
Mr.Bill
(24,906 posts)we know we can't make you get the vaccine, but we can make you wish you had.
Treat these people in all aspects of life like they are currently infected and are spreading the virus.
Raftergirl
(1,855 posts)
Shrek
(4,421 posts)Some of the people interviewed for the article are willing to listen:
I made this case to several no-vaxxers: Your grandparents, elderly neighbors, and immunocompromised friends will be safer if you’re vaccinated, even if you’ve already been infected. I played with the “COVID is no worse than driving” metaphor that many of them offered. I agree that driving is acceptably safe for most people, I said. But imagine, I added, if you could have a forward collision warning system installed in your car for free? An already-pretty-safe activity would become an even safer activity; and what’s more, you’d be protecting other people on the road at minimal cost to yourself.
I can’t tell you this argument got a lot of people to drop the phone, sprint to a vaccine clinic, and sign up for a Fauci tattoo on their arm. The truth is that I’m not sure that I changed anybody’s mind. But I can honestly say that this argument gave several no-vaxxers a bit of pause. They responded by talking about chains of transmission throughout the community, rather than focusing on their own immune system. Several of them asked to see evidence of my position so that they could examine it for themselves.
The United States suffers from a deficit of imagining the lives of other people. This is true of my side: Vaccinated liberals don’t take much time to calmly hear out the logic of those refusing the shots. But it’s also true of the no-vaxxers, who might reconsider their view if they grasped the far-ranging consequences of their private vaccination decisions.
They are not uniformly stupid and closed-minded; it's worth it to try to reach them.
lanlady
(7,229 posts)... the big boss told him that whenever he travels internationally (which is quite often - it's part of his job), he'll have to quarantine for 10 days since he has not been vaccinated. Company policy, applies to everyone. The 10 days will be taken out of his vacation hours, and when he runs out of those, he'll need to quarantine while on leave without pay.
Guess who picked up the phone and scheduled his first Pfizer vax?
Response to lanlady (Reply #45)
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marble falls
(71,886 posts)bullwinkle428
(20,662 posts)many co-workers changed their tune once the business made them realize their future might not be so bright as a part of that organization going forward, if they chose to "opt out".
Chakaconcarne
(2,786 posts)As long as people who want it get it...... the rest are on their own.
Why make this into a war? Why force it?
DonCoquixote
(13,956 posts)and mutate into soemthign vaccien proof, then we ALL die because some idiot wanted to feel like an AMERKIN
muriel_volestrangler
(106,160 posts)system response, but without the risk of getting the symptoms by actually being infected. Tell them a vaccine works by allowing your immune system to train against a harmless imitation of the virus, rather than having to start when the real virus has invaded their body. And tell them that tests show that even if you have already had Covid and survived with mild or no symptoms, the vaccine improves your immune system response.
They seem to think "if it's from a pharmaceutical company, it's a drug". If they understand it's not a drug, and it's their own immune system that'll produce the response, that may appeal to their sense of health and self-reliance.