Are the people who attack Congressional Democrats for trying to work with Republicans

[StarfishSaver]

the same people who insist that Democrats need to reach out to Trump voters?

If so, I'm confused.

If it's crazy for Congressional Democrats to reach out to Congressional Republicans because it's a waste of time, why do they think we'll be any more successful convincing the people who keep voting them in to office to change? They're all swimming in the same swamp, as far as I'm concerned. I'm fine with leaving them there.

Now, if they want to crawl out of the swamp and come and dip their toes into our pool, cool. But It's up to them.

[Me.]

1. I Don't THink Anything Will Work With Either Of Them Anyway

it will take a lightning strike of some enormous magnitude to pull them out of their fog and I have no idea how that might come about or might be. If they don't care about 1/6 then what will it take?

[StarfishSaver]

2. Exactly

Any voter who is still supporting those people or who is on the fence and can go either way is not to be trusted and they definitely aren't to be coveted.

[Voltaire2]

3. that's not crazy at all.

Unlike the senate republicans, 'trump voters' are not a very small group (50) of very well paid and very well disciplined political operatives, acting in lock-step with their leaders.

[StarfishSaver]

5. They are put into those positions by their voters - many of whom Democrats are chasing after

And they hang onto their positions by behaving this way because they know that's what those voters want and if they don't give it to them, they will kick them out and replace with someone who will.

[Voltaire2]

7. Again: you are equating a very small group of disciplined political operatives

with 'all trump voters', and that is nonsense.

[StarfishSaver]

9. I'm equating them because they are whom those voters select to REPRESENT them

And they behave the way they do in order to ensure those voters continue to pick them.

So, yes, they are definitely connected.

[brooklynite]

4. Who do you think falls into this category?

I think we should try to reach out to both legislators and voters. My goal is to get policies passed and win elections.

[peggysue2]

6. I think the Biden Administration needs to make the attempt

Joe Biden expressed the need and intention of working in a bipartisan way to enact legislation while proving--through the Covid Relief Bill--that he's not willing to dilute his policies down to pablum. The American electorate as a whole has indicated that a bipartisan effort is what they want and expect.

Personally, I think there's little chance of getting enough Republicans to make a difference or acting as honest brokers. But I give Joe Biden credit for standing by his word and giving it a try because without getting rid of the filibuster (or reforming it), enacting the rest of Biden's agenda is going to be very, very difficult.

[Bettie]

8. Reaching out isn't a problem

but eventually, that hand needs to be withdrawn instead of holding it out forever in hopes that they will somehow change.

So, asking them what could get them to vote for Bill X....they give suggestions that would turn it into something entirely different, we counter with something to weaken, but not to the extend they move, they say "NO, all or nothing".

At that point, you just say "Fine, nothing then." and move on.

Frankly, I see the value of doing it as a matter of theater, but I have zero expectation that any Republican will EVER cooperate as long as their leadership is what it is.

[StarfishSaver]

10. Agree

And we should take the same approach to their voters. There's only so much effort we need to keep putting in chasing around after those people trying to get their support.

[Bettie]

11. Right, make the effort

but don't let it stop all progress.

Biden seems to get this. Ask for cooperation, but if they say "no" move on.

[StarfishSaver]

13. Exactly

Unfortunately, Democrats have been chasing these people for decades and still think they can win them over with the right slogan or if they can JUST get them to see that their interests are better served by the Democrats - totally ignoring the fact that these people have interests that are much better served by Republicans and those interests run directly counter to Democratic principles and the interests of a substantial part of our loyal base.

[Hortensis]

15. I think the pros know a great deal about their voters. They spend a lot of

money and effort trying to identify those who can be persuaded, and how. And virtually none hoping to change minds they've decided are intractably opposed to them and/or positions they're not going to change.

After all, would you do anything more than conscientiously speak to them and their concerns when appropriate? Especially when being a target for discontent and partisan hostility is intrinsic to the job no matter what you do?

[StarfishSaver]

17. If the pros know so much about their voters, why haven't they been able to get

these voters to vote Democratic after all these years?

[Hortensis]

19. Beats me. Why aren't you a white power apologist? Is it because

Republican pols haven't bothered to figure out how to turn you to openly support them? There can be a lot of sophistication to this and game plans usually held very close to the chest. Who knows? My impression is they want black people very angry and invest a fair amount of energy setting and fanning fires.

[StarfishSaver]

20. Good question

The answer is probably that they know their policies and core principles run contrary to my principles and beliefs and goals, so they don't bother wasting time trying to convince me to support them. They also don't change their core principles in order to satisfy people like me.

Democrats could learn from that when it comes to trying to get certain people to switch to our side. Most of these people are not with us because they don't agree with what we stand for.

[Hortensis]

22. :) Expect so! But as for what people believe, it's more complicated

than that. Studies show people are typically goulashes of various positions, and even that most people hold at least one or two beliefs from the far side of the "other" side. From that, people average out to orient mainly liberal or conservative.

But there are some mixtures often seen. Socially liberal and economically leaning conservative is a very common one, especially among women.

Populist leaders Trump and Senator Sanders were both vying for the very common "populist mixture" of (somewhat to very) socially conservative and economically progressive.

No doubt pols and political scientists could list others, and also no doubt that these patterns are always at least somewhat dynamic. Attitudes do flex (and sometimes even gyrate or turn back fips) with circumstances.

[AZProgressive]

12. It is mainly Manchin & Sinema talking about impossible bipartisanship

Actually it is easier for House Democrats to get Republicans to vote in favor of legislation than it is in the Senate.

[Bettie]

14. With Sinema, I kind of get a feeling

that her whole "I think EVERYTHING should need 60 votes" is so that she can never be pinned down on anything.

If nothing moves, she keeps her job because she has no record to hold against her. She gets to be theoretically both for and against everything.

And yeah, in the House a very few Republicans may sign on to things, but the leadership is still toxic and advocates against them doing that.

[Buckeye_Democrat]

18. If anything, I'm the opposite.

I tend to think that some Republicans in Congress -- not including members like MGT and Q*Bert -- aren't true cult members, unlike most of the people electing them.

But I mostly agree with you.

It's up to them to behave sane.

[AZProgressive]

21. I think most of the Republicans that objected to the electoral votes of several states

Knew better but they did it to hold on to the Trump base or in cases of Josh Hawley for a future run for President. The problem is the win at all costs mentallity.

[Buckeye_Democrat]

23. That's my impression too.

I view most of their politicians like the man in this old political cartoon. They created their own robot overlords.



Trump was a lazy-brained Fox News viewer, so he naturally appealed to voters who proclaimed that he "told it like it is". Those supporters live in the same misinformation bubble.

[msongs]

24. if u can get a few repub votes in every precinct nationwide its worth doing. congress

reps are a highly distilled final product. which is why there needs to be a dem in every race no matter how unlikely a dem win looks. just having a dem on the ballot brings out other closet dems who would otherwise not vote.